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Hardware

Obtaining a USB Vendor/Product ID? 37

Posted by Cliff from the proper-identification dept.
Qeygh asks: "I am interested in developing some hardware devices for my own use and, since RS-232 is dying, would like to use USB to communicate with them. If they work out well I may offer kits for sale. To do this right I should get a USB Vendor ID so that the devices can be uniquely identified by the host; but, being cheap, I don't want to drop the $1500 that USB.org charges for one. Does anyone know of any alternatives -- perhaps someone who bought a Vendor ID and re-sells small blocks of Product IDs? If no-one out there is doing this yet, is it a service that anyone else would use?"
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Obtaining a USB Vendor/Product ID? More

Obtaining a USB Vendor/Product ID?

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  • If you're going to sell kits... (Score:4, Informative)

    by torpor ( 458 ) <ibisum.gmail@com> on Saturday October 25, 2003 @06:50AM (#7307443) Homepage Journal
    ... then, make an investment for the 'business' you will make from this, and pay the $1500 to get your own Vendor ID.

    Shirking out of paying a vendor ID when you want to sell product based on USB is just stupid. USB requires a unique vendor ID, that database of vendor ID's needs to be maintained and administered, and the cost for that is $1500. Fair enough, welcome to business.

    Pay the fee, if you're going to sell kits. It is the only thing that makes sense. You want to use USB, well ... there is a door fee, and that door fee is $1500.

    If you're not going to sell kits, you don't need your own Vendor ID. Just use nulls for everything, or make one up for your own lab purposes.
    • Backup just a little bit... the guy is trying to something on the cheap while also trying doing it right! There's nothing wrong with that! *IF* his shit goes to plan, then he may do kits, but until then it's not a business.

      Your last bit of advice is the best... If you're not going to sell kits, you don't need your own Vendor ID. Just use nulls for everything, or make one up for your own lab purposes.... As long as this'll work for testing purposes, this should do him just fine.

      On another note, I agree wit

      • Ermm... his entire premise is 'how can I get out of paying for a Vendor ID if I want to sell a product'. So, he's not asking to do it right ... he's asking to get around the license - and maybe he's hoping someone on slashdot will let him use one of 'their' product ID's...

        You don't need a Vendor ID if you're not going to sell product. Vendor ID's are to make it possible to recognize different devices in the marketplace, not in the lab.

        In the lab, use whatever you want.

      • Re:If you're going to sell kits... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Blkdeath ( 530393 ) on Saturday October 25, 2003 @11:12AM (#7308078) Homepage
        the guy is trying to something on the cheap while also trying doing it right! There's nothing wrong with that!

        By the sounds of the article, it sounds as if he's going to sell a few kits to recoup some cash, and/or because others are interested and he wants to share. It doesn't sound to me as if he wants to become the next Rockafeller out of the deal.

        Your last bit of advice is the best... If you're not going to sell kits, you don't need your own Vendor ID. Just use nulls for everything, or make one up for your own lab purposes.... As long as this'll work for testing purposes, this should do him just fine.

        People used to say the same thing about IPv4 space. "Just use whatever block you want; it's only a lab!" Suddenly companies small and large alike are finding people announcing routes for their IP space halfway across the Internet. In other words, if you're going to "make up" your vendor ID, try to find a reserved/testing block or ensure that these devices will never get into the wild.

        On another note, I agree with $1500 being inexpensive for a block, I thought it was a typo at first as for a business, that's less then a drop in the bucket!

        Sounds like you've never run a small / SOHO business my friend. :)

        • Sounds like you've never run a small / SOHO business my friend. :)

          Ah, but I have. When you're a small business, every dollar counts. If fact, every dollar counts so much that you have to have an extremely firm footing in reality, or you'll go broke.

          The reality is that a USB ID block costs $1500. If you're not going to spend this money, you might as well not be in business. It's an expenditure you're going to have to make. It would be nice if it were cheaper, but at least it's a very reasonable price.

  • Your Google-Fu is no good! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 25, 2003 @07:18AM (#7307508)
    You must master Jeet-Comb-Do.

    "- USB Product Id's or PID are supplied using our Vendor ID for each licensed product if your company doesn't already have a USB Vendor ID and doesn't want to pay the yearly fee for a Vendor ID from www.usb.org." --
    Andrew Pargeter & Associates . [devicedriver.com] Sales : 888-806-1053


    This seems to be your best bet. Doesn't look like it would be much of a problem to set up a program and sell or give PID's away though. But, what's to stop random developers from "barrowing" them and causing a difficult to diagnose problem down the line, should you pursue it?

  • # lsusb
    Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
    Bus 001 Device 002: ID 4242:2469/40 International Widget Sdn Bhd. FTL469 Hyper Communicator
    #
  • Just pick a value, then tell the ID sellers and the USB forum mailing lists that you'll be using it and it's up to them whether they plan to sell the value to anyone else knowing that it's already in use.

    I suspect you won't make friends by doing this, but I also suspect the value you choose won't be sold to anyone else. :-)

  • My project doesn't have the funds to get our own VID yet either. So instead we are picking one out of thin air. Since our particular device requires a EEPROM anyway we decided that if it ever becomes popular enough to worry about, we can issue a firmware update that re-writes our VID to the official one.

    Just don't use 0x8086 since we all know who has that one... ;)
    • Yikes! What happens when somebody gets assigned that VID and the next version of Linux/Windows/MacOS includes drivers that start recognizing your widget as a joystick?

      You'll have a lot of angry customers..

  • You could the few IDs that are set aside for testing and are not supposed to be used in reatil things. It's perfectly fine if you make stuff for your use, but when you do start selling the things you'd need to get a real one.

  • Check with the chipset vendor (Score:5, Informative)

    by morcheeba ( 260908 ) on Saturday October 25, 2003 @11:44AM (#7308132) Journal
    A lot of times, the manufacturer of the USB chipset you're using will sublet their product ID's for free or nominal cost. (example: Answer 3, part 2 [dlpdesign.com]). They're happy to sell parts, and it costs them only 1.1 cents a year per PID (they've got a block of 64k; that's a lot of numbers)

    Also, correction to Qeygh's original question: it's not just $1500, it's $1500 every two years, for just the numbers Or you can join the USB org for $2500/year and get the numbers for free!

  • Buy a chip, get PIDs for free (Score:3, Informative)

    by nmnilsson ( 549442 ) <magnusNO@SPAMfreeshell.org> on Saturday October 25, 2003 @02:06PM (#7308781) Homepage
    I'd recommend buying a USB-RS232 chip.
    USB is USB - just a lot of specs to follow and nothing innovative.
    It gives you time to concentrate on 'your own' hardware, which after all is what you want.
    You get to use the vendors device drivers and VID, and get a couple of PIDs for your own use.

    My company has worked quite a bit with FTDI [ftdichip.com].
    They make reliable chips (AFAIKT), and give excellent support.
  • It won't make anyone happy, but pick an ID that is not in use, start using it, and send them a registered letter stating that you are using it, and have no intention of paying them for the priviledge. Such makes it more likely that it will actually get read by someone who would care.

    They don't want collisions as much as you do..
  • just build your device with a bank of dip switches to let the user pick a usb id. anything that is not already on the chain should be ok.
  • Sounds like it would be easy enough (assuming you could keep USB-org lawyers off your back, if they're against this sort of thing) to set up a sort of 'umbrella company' that pays the $1500 for a VID, then sublicenses individual Product IDs for much less, maybe $5. (The $1500 buys you a VID, which allows you to then make up 0xFFFF (65,536) PIDs for individual devices.)

    One could set up a Universal USB Tinkerers Association, or something like that, specifically for this purpose.

    Not to say you necessarily s
  • When we bought 8 USB interface chips from FTDI [ftdichip.com] via our local distributor, we got 8 id's for free [FT232BM (serial) or FT245BM (parallel)]. And there are drivers for many os-es [ftdichip.com] for. I'm a member of an association for amateur research for embedded systems however.

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