Current Unemployment Rate in the IT Industry? 117
concerned-about-employment asks: "What's the unemployment rate in the IT industry currently? Years ago I heard it was 8-9% but with so many jobs going offshore and the general unemployment rate rising, could it be even higher than before? Has it really broken 10% as some people say? That would mean 1 out of every 10 IT workers is out of a job. Personally though, from the perspective of a recent college graduate, it looks like 20% from here." How does the actual national unemployment rate in IT compare to the number of IT professionals that you know who are currently out of work?
Make sure you differentiate (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Make sure you differentiate (Score:1)
Oh, I didn't just insult the poster, did I?
Re:Make sure you differentiate (Score:2, Insightful)
An important collary to the topic in discussion, would be how many people have left the IT industry simply because it is no longer worth their time.
Re:Make sure you differentiate (Score:2)
College Grads (Score:4, Informative)
Oh and if you procrastinated through out college you are fucked. I have friends who if today came to me for a job I wouldn't hire. It is sad but true.
Re:College Grads (Score:3, Interesting)
Certs have gained great importance in this industry for a reason. I know many with 3.8+ GP
Re:College Grads (Score:2)
Just got rehired (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, be prepared to move to different parts of the country. From what I hear, Silicon Valley isnt so hot any more, but other areas, like Conn. and Raleigh/Durham, NC are much better.
Re:Just got rehired (Score:1)
HR won't pay anything near normal pay, people coming in are 20-30K less, and with that pay, no experienced professional will take the job. So we get people with hardly any experience, and putting them in important roles, is a joke. And of course, I have to train them, little annoyed as it increases my work week by 20 hours.
I'm currently the lead of our group, so I know our entire network, backup solutions, console, processes, parts and repair, everything. We
Why exclude telecommuting (Score:1)
One of the so-called advantages of offshore outsourcing is that you don't need to pay to lease office space and its associated costs (toilet paper, janitors, heating and air conditioning, etc). It would seem like you could get the same c
Re:Just got rehired (Score:2)
Better is, of course, a relative term... but I have to admit, my first reaction at reading that and seeing Raleigh / Durham mentioned was something like:
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!! BWAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHA!! ROFLMFAO!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!! BWAHAHAHAHAA!!! I HOPE THIS GUY DOESN'T TRUST WHOEVER TOLD HIM THAT LIE!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! WOOHOOHOOOO!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
Seriously, the job market
Re:Just got rehired (Score:2)
Re:Just got rehired (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just got rehired (Score:1)
^^ What he said! ^^ It ain't greener here in Raleigh, NC. I've been out of work since October and am just now getting to the in-person interview stage with about 10 companies (actually had 7 interviews THIS week, which is outstanding). I have skills and 10+ years of solid experience and performance in IT (technology and leadership/management), but there is such a GLUT of other techies out there now, it's hard for even someone like me to differentiate myself.
On a positive note, I'm sure I'll be getting
Re:Just got rehired (Score:2)
I just wish that I knew more people not in my area, peolple I could move in with til I found a job, in these new 'hot' job markets.
I disagree about RDU (Score:2)
I remember going to a TriBUG [tribug.org] meeting where every single person there was laid off. These were senior level UNIX geeks, and not one of them could find work. The other UG I was involved in, TriLUG [trilug.org], was doing
Just remember, the national unemployment rates (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Just remember, the national unemployment rates (Score:1)
Re:Just remember, the national unemployment rates (Score:2)
It doesn't count people not looking, and it shouldn't, but it definitely counts people who are not collecting unemployment insurance.
Re:Just remember, the national unemployment rates (Score:2)
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Underemployment? (Score:2)
Is this what you're thinking about when you say 10%?
- doug
Re:Underemployment? (Score:2)
No, he's thinking 'if 'unemployed' is stated as 'is collecting unemployement benefits,' what are you if you're still not working when those benefits run out?'
If out of 100 people, 5 are collecting unemployement benefits, but 5 more have been unemployed for over a year, and have no more benefits to collect, then is your unemployement rate 5 percent, or 10 percent?
Re:Underemployment? (Score:2)
Should folks who want a job, but aren't actively looking because they're waiting for the j
Re:Just remember, the national unemployment rates (Score:3, Interesting)
They actually maintain 6 different figures, with the one hovering around 5% being the one that gets reported in the media. The actual number of people really unemployment (as I take it to mean not having a job) is up around 9%-10%.
Here's their PDF [bls.gov] explaining the various levels.
--Darren
Do it as your hobby (Score:3, Funny)
If you still have some money, think about pursuing a professional degree (JD, MBA, etc.). Demand for these never dips.
There are no jobs in IT out here for you.
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, you ARE kidding, right?
Because A whole slew of articles in business magazines have been talking about how the success of outsourcing IT has given Corporate America all sorts of interesting ideas. Like outsourcing "non-core" departments, like HR, Payroll, Accounting, legal research, business forecasting and strategy, almost all of middle management...
You DID know about that, right? Cause if you weren't joking, boy are YOU in for a shock...
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:1)
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:2)
But they can't get rid of ALL the jobs. The working and middle classes get their revenge every time a plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic skins a rich suit alive. "Well, Mr. Manager, looks like the old Beemer is gonna need a new Carburetor... It's an import, and it's in an awkward spot, so that'll be a grand, five hundred
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:2, Interesting)
I agree with this, although my case is very different.
I started programming computers professionally when I was 12 years old - it started as a hobby, but fortunately for me in 1982 anyone with any sort of production experience with computers could find work. Lucky for me I was interested in filesystems work back then - that seriously propelled me into the stratosphere as a working programmer.
It hasn't changed - I still code for the fun of it, but it has fed me all these years quite well.
My current job c
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:1)
And you'd kind of HAVE to be in your 30's if you were playing with code at 12.
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:1)
Cretin.
Re:Do it as your hobby (Score:2, Interesting)
Not so sure about that. I can see things like radiology, where the images may be transmitted digitally, could be outsourced and eventually offshored (NAFTA I believe provides some sort of license transparency, and even if it doesn't, you could possible form a company where the dr.s get licensed in US but operate out of another country)
Even within the US though, companies are probably trying to replace higher cost dr
Look... (Score:2, Insightful)
If you still aren't working, chances are you should have never been in the field in the first place. There's jobs. They exist. Some of them are specialized. Some of them are stupid.
All of them will go to the person who sucks least before the mana
Re:Look... (Score:2)
Great advice, dick! Maybe you should consider the fact that some of the most talented people in the industry are wholly untalented at looking for work. I learned this at my current position, there are very people who've been there for years without much of a raise, but they just aren't good at looking for something better.
I think I'm slightly above average for the industry in my looking for work skills,
Re:Look... (Score:2)
So if I was into specialized career A and that has gone to shit, but there are tons of jobs in Specialized career B, I should have realized 10 years ago this was going to happen and picked Career path B?
Re:Look... (Score:1)
Re:Look... (Score:1, Insightful)
Not to be excessivly ignorant here, but India historically has been fucked up on Religion (tm), and people get the government they deserve. If I was faced with that kind of suffering and misery, I would endeavour to change it. Or die trying. That's what happened in North America, or at least, the US.
Some places in the world suck. There are good reasons for it, and mos
Re:Look... (Score:2)
Or because the company's finances got so bad they had to make cuts across the board in every department. I've seen it happen in a previous job, and it happened to me. It was either that or everyone had to take a pay cut, and management figured it was better to have fewer overworked employees rather than a bunch of underpaid ones. So no one was given the option
Official US number is 7.2% (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Official US number is 7.2% (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Official US number is 7.2% (Score:1)
Well, in 2002... (Score:4, Informative)
I've gotten calls from two recuiters looking for people in the last week. I think I got a grand total of 0 calls in 2002, and maybe a couple in 2003. I think people are realizing that not everything can be moved offshore and that programmers with domain/business experience are actually worth what you pay them here in the states. Dell, for example, is moving some of thier IT facilities back to the US after outsourcing it to India.
I hate to jinx it, but I think the worst is over. It may not be 1999 again anytime soon, but the storm clouds are clearing.
Re:Well, in 2002... (Score:2)
I know of several people who specialize in various areas who are getting 7-8 calls from recruiters a week, mostly for 6 month contracts.
If you are a "computer guy" or webmonkey, Apu in Bangalore has rendered you irrelevant. Database, network and "enterprise" software experts will always be in high demand, at least until the Indians get more experience.
Re:Well, in 2002... (Score:2)
OK, but that's a fairly meaningless number. I was technically unemployed for a week in 2001, but that was only the gap between leaving one job and starting the next. Unemployed needs to be more tightly defined as "no job at present and no next job in sight". Unemployed for over a month would be a better measure, as it's rarer to go that long between jobs unless something has
Re:Well, in 2002... (Score:1)
I think people are realizing that not everything can be moved offshore and that programmers with domain/business experience are actually worth what you pay them here in the states. Dell, for example, is moving some of thier IT facilities back to the US after outsourcing it to India.
Actually Dell is moving one particular CALL CENTER facility (the one that handles large corporate accounts, if memory serves) back to the US. I would hardly call this an IT facility. While I have the utmost respect for call
Compare? well... (Score:2)
The CCNA/MSCE C+ this A+ that guys I know are working at Office Max waiting on the 6 figure job thats going to set them free.
The real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The way to find a job is through networking. There is simply no better way, so if you are unemployed and not networking you might need to rethink your situation.
Re:The real problem (Score:1)
It's worse than that... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know people who are no longer considered to be in the IT industry as they've had to get jobs stacking boxes at Home Depot, etc.
They aren't counted since they aren't unemployed, even though they ARE unemployed from their profession.
Any IT-specific numbers you find will be wrong for this reason.
I'm not talking a 1st level phone-jockey, I'm talking about talented sysadmins with many years of experience!
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:2)
A lot of people, including myself, are former IT workers who have found other non-IT jobs to make ends meet. Personally, I now have a job that I like, because it's in one of my hobbies (pinball)! It's filling orders for pinball parts. I do this, and various other things, and now get to set my own hours (as long as the work gets done and I hit the post office each day before it closes)!
I thought about my close friends, and realized the numbers break down pretty much into thirds
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:1)
(15 years experience in compiler development - will generate code for food.)
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:2)
Selling phones isn't too bad, but I have to resort to reading slashdot on
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:1)
Re:It's worse than that... (Score:2)
It's pretty sad really, he has dual lcd's and 5 test stations in his office. A really pretty looking dell and far overpriced rack for the servers. Anytime something goes wrong, bam my cell phone starts ringing. He makes twice what I do and his job is basically calling me to fix anything that goes wrong.
Shouldn't mailrooms never exitst? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why does any company have a mailroom? Or a copy shop. I know how to run a copy machine, and I can put a stamp on an envelope. In truth though, there is a lot of work involved in copies and stamps that isn't visiable from the outside.
I've seen presidents drop 50 pages in a document feeder on the copier, if he can handle it why does the company have a copy room? Answer: because the company sometimes publishes manuals more than a copy or two. The president would make 2 copies of that 50 page document,
College Grads Grab the Spots (Score:4, Insightful)
It makes me think companies are opting to fill open positions with younger people whom they can hire at a much lower salary.
Re:College Grads Grab the Spots (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:College Grads Grab the Spots (Score:3, Informative)
You might not quite understand how defense contracting works. That company either recently got a new contract or think they will get a new contract, so they are hiring bodies to fill up the job descriptions. That contract might last six months or five years (only god and the program managers know), but I'm generally suspicious of any contractor doing a 50-out-of-200 hiring frenzy like that.
Of course, I've become quite jade
Re:College Grads Grab the Spots (Score:3, Interesting)
I was going to apply for a job there, but was told that it's not really open, they just advertise for a minimum number of
Re:College Grads Grab the Spots (Score:2)
well technically (Score:2)
Add one (Score:2)
Want to do some sort of network or system admin type work, but it seems everyone wants 3 - 5 years experience -- not much "entry level" stuff out there. Of c
Re:Add one (Score:2)
Maybe if you had some experience, you'd understand the difference between a college graduate and a person with 3-5 years experience.
Re:Add one (Score:2)
Re:Add one (Score:2, Interesting)
>> not much "entry level" stuff out there
If you don't have the logical skills to connect these two points, I certainly woulnd't hire you. It's tough right now, take a job.
I had trouble a couple of years ago, the company (where I was a System Engineer) folded, I eventually took a job installing cable modems and TV. Working hard, and showing that I was competent got me a promotion to Trainer within a few weeks. When THAT company folde
Re:Add one (Score:2)
Here on slashdot you hear about in house staff and network admins in the sense of people who actually work for the company they admin the network for. That's true in a fortune 500 or a large business, but the large business's call outside expertise in when they need work done, and small businesses don't have inhouse techs at all.
MOST technicians out there are on the payroll of a compan
Re:Add one (Score:2)
For another I never said anything about fibbing about what you know how to do. I advised him to get a job the only way it is possible for him and gain some legitimate experience. Aside from that, I've yet to meet anyone with a legitimate resume.
Whether it's creating a phantom job (easy enough to do, I've known people who created phantom companies and had a girlfriend answer the phone. I had co-workers at Sony who used this trick to get hired).
Or padd
Re:Add one (Score:2)
Re:Add one (Score:1)
Re:Add one (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, you must reexamine how you are conductin
Re:Add one (Score:1)
lost my job due to a bad decision and politics and outsourcing. Haven't been steadily employed since 02. You might want to take anything to get your foot in the door....
Re:Add one (Score:2)
Um, I didn't spend all that time getting two degrees in college, and working for 16 years in IT (most of that at the analyst/sysadmin level) to answer phones, either. Guess what I now spend nearly half of my time doing every week? (The other half is spent replacing bad keyboards, unjamming printers, installing software, and troubleshooting dead network connections.)
There's no shame in taking entry-level grunt work, even if it's
Re:Add one (Score:2)
I bet you didn't spend all this time in college to spend days firing off resumes, getting only one interview and still be unemployeed after one month and then posting it on slashdot. Think about that before you wave off a job like that.
>not much "entry level" stuff out there.
The call centre job would have been considered entry level stuff.
Real-world stats. (Score:3, Funny)
Friend 1: Employed
Friend 2: Lost Tech Job
Myself 1: Lost Tech Job
Whoa! That's a 66% unemployment rate! Yep. It's pretty bad out there...
Re:Real-world stats. (Score:1)
Is there a Myself 2?
Re:Real-world stats. (Score:1)
6 degrees of unemployment (Score:2)
1 was layed off in May 2002. spent about 5 months searching before hire.
1 was layed off in Jan 2003. He is still unemployed after 12 months of heavy searching.
1 was layed off in Apr 2003. spent 7 months finding a position before hire.
1 was layed off in Sep 2003. No leads, still searching.
I was layed off in Oct 2003. 8 interviews. still searching.
I would prefer multiple part-time, off-site sysadmin gigs. I have performed remote administration for the past 10 years. It would save
Hmmm... (Score:1)
Employism vs. Entrepreneurism (Score:2)
No, I'm not unemployed! I'm not just one of those hordes of people thrown out of the common boat by the waves of fate, while others have to pay for my life-support costs.
I am self-employed, an Entrepreneur, a captain of my own fate, hungrily looking for opportunities, just temporarily loaning some more investment from my family, monthly.
Haha only serious.
Job market has been dire in the UK too... (Score:1)
Around the time that the war in Iraq started, the job market dried up _completely_. Agencies were blatantly inventing vague pseudo-vacancies just to have something to advertise. I knew it was really really _really_ bad when at one point I saw a job advertisement asking for an "experienced software engineer" to "valet monitors and keyboards for a couple of hours a week."
Things did eventually start to pick up again, but I have friends in the industry who are s
10% might be a bit low for IT (Score:1)
Re:10% might be a bit low for IT (Score:1)
Ever single job I've ever gotten, I've gotten through networking. Seriously. Even the first one when I was fresh out of school.
The problem is most geeks aren't good at networking. Networking is NOT calling up the people you know and asking them for a job. Here is how I do it when I'm really serious about it (i.e., want to find a new job NOW):
1. Spend some time and come up with a good 30 sec. explanation of what sort of job I want.
2. C
Unemployment in US is very bad just remember (Score:3, Informative)
Looking up a little. (Score:2)
Just lost my job this week, and I've already had two serious responses. Unfortunatly both were in California. (I'm not a fan of the politics that rule in CA, I happen to like winter, and my family isn't there. I'd live there though if it paid the bills) Still last time I lost my job it was a few recruiters here and there looking at me, now it feels more serious. So things are still hard, but at least there is some movement towards hiring. I just hope I don't fall for a pay raise that after higher co
Don't count out underemployment (Score:2)
So
Unemployment rate versus layoffs, new hires (Score:1)
If you pick up the newspaper and read that there's only 6% unemployment, knowing that anything under 5% is considered inconsequential, you might wonder why jobs seem so scarce.
But if you look at the layoff numbers, those are currently double what they were in 1999. Then you look at new job creation. In 1999, when the economy was full steam, new jobs were being created at around 200,000 plus per month, often e
about to graduate with CE degree (Score:1)
Things are definitely looking up (Score:1)
Re:Things are definitely looking up (Score:1)
And you wonder why your positions are being outsourced to India. Sorry, but a few days reading Joe Celko doesn't entitle you with some sort of God-given right to be paid more than $28/hr.
Re:Don't go into IT!!! (Score:2)
Re:1 in 10? (Score:2)
Huh?
wrenkin wrote:
Re:1 in 10? (Score:2)
Re:1 in 10? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:offshore? huh? not real jobs. (Score:3, Informative)
Daniel