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Switching from Comp. Sci. to EE? 100

Posted by Cliff from the shifting-gears dept.
kedalion asks: "For the past five years, I've had a good job doing perl programming for the same company but I'm starting to worry. With the current trend in the marketplace to send programming jobs overseas, I'm beginning to wonder if my job will be 'exported' in the near future. With the glut of good programmers out of work, hiring salaries will be depressed as well. About a year ago, I started going back to school to finish my computer science degree. Now, I'm starting to wonder if it would be better to abandon the CS path, and go into either computer or electrical engineering. As an older student, this choice is made even more difficult because I would need to drop to part-time to take an engineering track. Also, I'm concerned that I would only qualify for an entry-level position if I took an engineering job. Anyone have thoughts/suggestions?"
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Switching from Comp. Sci. to EE? More

Switching from Comp. Sci. to EE?

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  • what would Indian companies pay ME for?
    • go there and find out.

      no, seriously.

      globalization is what it is. as a 'member of the global community', you have rights too, and right now, that includes the right to live in new places in search of work.

  • Relevant article on the topic (Score:4, Informative)

    by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:29PM (#8093379) Homepage Journal
    Reuters has an interesting article today on the "popularity" of CS degrees.

    High-Tech Degrees Don't Guarantee Jobs [iwon.com]

  • House wiring... (Score:4, Funny)

    by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:29PM (#8093387)
    Train yourself in the required courses for doing house wiring and also wiring in buildings... they can't outsource that yet... Either that or become a plumber... any skilled trade will do that's in demand...
    • My residence at UBC just got free internet finally. This is a more mature residence where people normally just get ADSL. Well, it was too expensive to wire so it's all just 802.11g.

      Try again ;)

      (and yes yes, I know you still have to wire up the wireless, just buggin :P)
    • Just dont become a cable (modem) installer. Become a contractor, not a sub-contractor. Letting someone 5 steps above you in the chain of command screw up your day by scheduling 5 jobs in 1 hour (not possible, I rock and I do 2 jobs an hour on a good day) and then punishing you for not getting them done is something that gets old really fast.
  • Sorry, I don't have the links for them, but there have been quite a few rebuttals to the 'outsourcing is the way to go' viewpoint.


    There are quite a few disadvantages to outsourcing - think management, documentation, specification, lack of feedback, etc.


    I'm just suggesting that you do some real research before jumping to the conclusion that US programmers are up shit creek without a paddle.

    • I agree, you will see that small and medium sized companies will not like having their computer people 3000 miles away. when a company is used to all of its people being in one metro area they will find it difficult to deal with people who speak english as a second lanuage.

  • Don't Even Think About It! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:33PM (#8093422)
    The EE/Hardware market is in a lot worse shape then the CS/Development market. Hardware guys are out of work because everything is now being done is Korea, Taiwan, and the rest of the South East Asia countries.

    I happen to know two EE people, one is changing careers and wants to become a dentist and the other is hopelessly looking for work.

    • Re:Don't Even Think About It! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stevew ( 4845 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:45PM (#8093573) Journal
      I'm a practicing EE - have been for 25 years.

      I work for a consulting company that has half their staff in India, i.e. we actively outsource EE work there. Becoming an EE isn't going to protect you from this trend. Doing ANYTHING in high-tech is probably open to being sent over-seas at some level.

      The only reason I still have a position (I live in Sillycon Valley) is because I DO have 25 years of experience. I do architecture work, project lead work, etc. I have LOTS of friends who are out of work, and have been for a year or better.

      I can safely say that I would recommend someone going for a degree OTHER than EE or CS for the time being. What EVER you do - the fact that you've got some practical experience is going to help you...but the life-long career in EE or CS is really a harder choice than it was when I got into it.

      Good Luck!
      • Do you have any suggestions, maybe, for someone who already has their engineering degree? I've coming up on two years out of school with my EE degree, and recently lost my temp mechanical engineering job. I've been looking, but it seems that the longer I go without any perceived electrical engineering experience, the more of an edge recent graduates have on me. I've been doing my own projects, but that never seems to count. The only thing I can think of right now is somehow getting consulting jobs, but with
    • "Here, now, I used to be an EE, so rather than give you a shot for that root canal, we'll just hook up these jumper cables here, and HERE..."

  • Why is an EE safer? (Score:4, Informative)

    by GOD_ALMIGHTY ( 17678 ) <curt.johnson@gmail.NETBSDcom minus bsd> on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:33PM (#8093424) Homepage
    What's so different between what an EE does and what a Software Developer does from a business manager's perspective that they wouldn't offshore that as well.

    From what I've seen, there might be more interest in offshoring EE's since they command larger salaries than CS or no major Software Developers. If you want something safe, go into Health Care, sales or politics. Everything that doesn't require your physical presence in the US can and will be offshored without some legislative fix.

    Asia has a booming number of Engineers who are doing work that US Engineers used to.

  • maybe you should ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by croddy ( 659025 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:33PM (#8093428)
    move to India?

    just a thought.

  • What makes you think that EE's won't be outsourced just as fast? In fact, outsourcing EE's is more likely since the production has been completely outsourced as well.
  • I'm in almost the same boat as you. I'm a high school senior who is very interested in computer science, but i'm worried that all of the jobs will be exported by the time i'm out of college.
    I have almost decided to completely switch to EE/CompE because of this. Lately i've been thinking about what will happen if bush's plans to go to the moon/mars actually happen. There will be a huge amount of job openings in those fields. I think it would be great for me to have a job relating to space. The only reason

    • Re:Space Boom (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      For students such as yourself, my university [ou.edu] (and others, possilby) offers a 5-year Masters degree in Computer Engineering, allowing the option of either a M.S. in Computer Science, or an M.S. in Electrical Engineering (VERY, VERY broad field).

      Basically, you take graduate-level electives instead of "normal" electives in your undergraduate degree. You're allowed to double-count those graduate-level credits toward your MS.

      Ask your potential schools about such programs, and think about getting a minor in C.S
    • Space Program needs PhDs not MS. Or NASA trends to hire you first if you got a PhD. So keep on studing if that is where you want to work.

      BTW, citizenship is also mandatory, you need sec.clearence to work on most of the projects at NASA or space contractors, such as Boeing, Lockheed, etc.

      • As a software engineer at Johnson Space Center, I just wanted to offer some clarification on this. If you want to be a literal rocket scientist or other NASA researcher, yes you would need a Ph.D. For jobs like software development, system administration, etc. you would be working for one of the contactors and typically have a BS degree. A Masters or Ph.D. would be a nice plus but most people in these positions do not have one. During the IT boom I knew someone who had no degree at all who was doing Jav

    • Nooooo, what the hell are you thinking. Think of this as the one piece of advice from a stranger that will save your life. You want to do marketing. I'm almost done my undergrad in TWO degrees. One is a BSc in Computer Electronics and one is a Business Admin Degree. Guess which degree is completely UESELESS?
      Marketing is where its at for several reasons anyways. Marketing classes have more (and hot) girls in them. Business/Marketing requires about 15-20 hours of class and a little bit of homework, C
    • Nah. They won't outsource all the IT jobs by the time you get out of college. They'll wait until you have a family you're responsible for.

      Anything in IT that requires that hands be physically placed on the product already in the customers' hands (i.e. desktop support) and can't be performed remotely. Everything else will be either outsourced by many companies or a dead end.

  • Be honest, how good are you? I know a few programers who shouldn't be programers. I know a lot of programers that are really good with the first technology they learned, but get them off of C on a 68010(embedded) and they are lost. If you going to be that type, only useful in a small set of circumstances get your degree in something that won't go away or change. (I don't know what that would be though. Perhaps hebrew-english translation?)

    Assuming you are flexable, what are you good at. All the EE

    • If you are very sharp, and willing to eat dirt for about a decade, analog engineers will be in heavy demand for the forseeable term, there are a ton of old guard retiring, and that is something that you pretty much have to have experience doing to do it well.
    • This guy brings up a REALLY GOOD STRATEGY that happens to fall into some advice my Grand Dad gave me years ago. Don't rely on just one career avenue , try to have at least TWO things you are good at. If one area falls away, take up the other career to get you by.

      My Grand Dad lived this philosophy. He was a police officer for 25 years. He retired from the force and became a general contractor building houses. His son-in-law (my Dad) picked this up from him. My Dad had at least three careers. He did Elec
      • ...try to have at least TWO things you are good at.

        That's why I switched to CmpeE from CS before my freshman year even started. Now I *do* actually do software (well, portable ANSI C firmware really). But half my coursework was doing hardware (chip design at the transistor level and in Verilog) and designing complete embedded systems (hw and sw). So I can deal well enough with the hardware guys and could pretty easily jump to that side if need-be (actually that was my preferred path, but I didn't find
    • Spot on! No matter the field, if you're REALLY GOOD at what you're doing, and/or if you're PASSIONATE about it, you'll do just fine. Don't do a degree just because there are job prospects in it.

      BTW, a change of path this early would look pretty bad on a resume, as it would mean that you have no idea what you want to do, and therefore you're either not good enough or not passionate enough about it.
    • >The only field I know of that might get you security is heath care

      --
      I wouldn't count on this either, incidentally,
      for several reasons:

      #1 - Hiring of experienced people from abroad willing to work for entry pay. (Will kill entry-level) [registered nurses]

      #2 - Illegal immigrants (nursing home attendants)

      #3 - Anything that can be outsourced, will be outsourced; this is specifically in regards to Radiology :)

      #4 - HMO's killing your salary, not making it worth your while to study medicine (overall).
  • My wife just finished here 4 year BS degree as an EE. She was one of the top students at a very respectable school ( Valparaiso University [valpo.edu]) and hasn't found a EE job since she graduated in May. The school's placement assistance program can't find anything for her either. Honestly, I would recommend either ME, or nursing. Nursing sounds like a joke, but you can go from there to being a doctor. Plus, you'll always be able to find places in your area that needs someone with nursing experience.
    ... but, I'd
    • I would recommend either ME, or nursing.

      What about trades? Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, drywallers, bricklayers -- all of those guys get paid good money and are in demand. And you can't off-shore hands-on work like that.
      • Maybe not even skilled trades will help you, depending. For instance, Austin TX was chock-full of "undocumented" day-laborers a few years back, and anyone who expected to be paid over the table, be eligible for workman's comp, Social Security credits etc. was SOL. Just because something can't be exported to cheap labor doesn't mean that the cheap labor can't be imported.
    • I hope that's just a statement and not a recommendation. I know that Mechanical engineering (as far as engineering wise) is where a lot of new hires are going right now.

      I wonder, are electrical engineering jobs still suffering from tech boom days? There were a lot of people I saw in my classes that wanted to go into EE becuase it made good money and it was a really hot job market at the time.

  • Finish your CS degree (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:35PM (#8093452) Homepage Journal
    I'm a 4th year cs student. At my college, RIT, we have a co-op program. This requires me to work at 4 real world cs jobs prior to graduation. Because of this requirement I job hunt for CS jobs on a daily basis. Let me tell you what I have seen. If you don't have a CS degree you can't get a CS job worth crap. I can't tell you how many times I've seen job postings for which I meet and/or exceed the required knowledge, but don't meet the degree requirement.

    What has happened is the .com boom ended, but companies still need programmers. But because there are so many out there, and because of cheap overseas labor, they are only going to hire the best. All the coders who lost their jobs at the end of the boom can't get rehired, because most of them didn't finish their degrees. I know too many people in that position, and now they can't afford to finish college.

    If you are willing to relocate to anywhere in the country CS jobs are not hard to find. But having a degree is an absolute must. Companies are just throwing away every resume that doesn't have a degree written on it. So, if you like CS more, finish it up. If you really like EE a whole lot more than CS, switch it up. Do what you like. There are jobs for people who finish college.
    • The days of 6 month tech schools are over. No more MCSE and get an entry level computer job. But with the baby boom generation about to retire in the next 10 years. IT folks with BS or MS degrees will be able to find jobs. No company is going to outsource 100% of its IT department. I think IT will level out.
    • i will be graduating with my BSCE this spring from UCSD. BEcause of lots of work experience and a good internship i think i have a good chance at a job as soon as i graduate. I choose CE because i really love thinking like a computer, even though the oberon compiler i am working on is going to be a bitch. I also enjoy the physical side of thing so with the CE major i get lots of exposer to the hardware and I am not limiting myself to just hardware or software. I eventually will like to go for a masters degr
  • have you thought about trying to be a SA? A good SA has coding skills, which you do, and if you use unix at all at home, and know how to troubleshoot and do basic maintance like patching and installs, the move over to Sys Admining should be fairly easy. Still going to be a need for SA's.
  • ... and write code.

    computer programming isn't about -persistent maintenance- and blagging.

    its about creating new applications for the processor and its peripherals.

    learn a new language, stay on top of interesting hardware developments, always work outside your steady job to improve your skills (i.e. don't just rely on it for -work- and $$$), and stay motivated.

    there is a glut of programmers in certain markets, but an ocean of markets that have yet to even be -explored- for the talents of computer scienc

  • Get a grip!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:38PM (#8093480) Journal
    OK, please stop panicking, everyone.

    Yes, there is outsourcing going on. Yes, there is a completely real, entirely serious issue here. But the panic that's set in over the last 6 months that every high-tech job in the US is about to be packed off to India is insane. It's completely counterproductive and has a nasty undertone of racism, to boot.

    People need to grasp the fact that 1998 isn't coming back, and that you're not going to get paid a fortune to reboot servers or do Flash animations. That doesn't mean that no one will ever write code again east of Calcutta.

    • Re:Get a grip!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by nelsonal ( 549144 )
      What's happening appears to me to be a combination of three things:
      First, output is increasing due to productivity, managers are using employee fear to not hire yet, this will probably hold for up March-June if demand for goods stays healthy. This happens every upturn, and will continue until execs get worried about losing market share to others who hire (or spend on capex).
      Second, there is a shift in production to India and it will last a long time, but right now it is in a bubble (figure that it's 1998

      • Arbitrage is cool!

        I know it's your sig, but does it have something to do with outsourcing, anyway?

      • There one problem with your thesis - the concept of there are only so many good engineers being a big one. When you are talking about TWO separate countries (read both India and China) that have 1 billion people each - and they graduate a huge number of bright people in engineering/CS every year (not to mention those that get educated here..) the supply of engineering talent is vast. The number of jobs is finite for a given economic situation.

        Add this to the cost of doing business here in the states, and
        • Absolutly, but I have some hope. First is that there aren't that many people who can do engineering. Coming from the US DoE college studies, no more than 7% of college grads have the brains to do engineering (that was the percent of undergrads who declared engineering/phy sci majors in 1999/2000 probably about the peak) from the US DoE undergrad study [ed.gov] it's a pdf sorry. I think CS has dropped significantly since then. And my own experience shows that a fair number of undergrads don't finish the program.

    • Well, sort of... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by GCP ( 122438 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @08:50PM (#8094916)
      I agree that people often overreact to a change, and this is no exception.

      But for you to set up the strawman that "*every* high-tech job in the US is about to be packed off to India" and knock it down with the assurance that it won't actually be every single one isn't much of an argument.

      Yes, of course, there are still going to be programmers in the US. There are still steel workers and, for that matter, farmers and coal miners, but I wouldn't want to be one of them.

      People are right to view this as a genuine structural change that has implications for career-related decisions such as a college major. They can do so without being guilty of "panicking".

      I think the question is quite sensible, and "get a grip" and "stop panicking" aren't very useful answers.

      And I think your "nasty undertone of racism" remark is bunk. You can always find an example of name-calling when people get frustrated and label an entire argument "racism, racism!", but that's mostly a red herring used to shut people up. If the jobs were going to Moscow instead of Bangalore, people would be just as upset and making the same arguments ("we're better than they are", "their quality isn't good", "they can't communicate", "our bosses are greedy and short-sighted", etc.) The issues would be the same.

      And many of the most upset are Asian Americans (both East Asian and South Asian) who are having their previously elite status seriously eroded by large numbers of those they thought they left behind in the Old Country.

      I don't see anyone doing anything wrong here. It's just the natural balancing of supply and demand at work, but it's a whopper of a change that people need to factor into their personal plans.

      • Re:Well, sort of... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Otter ( 3800 )
        People are right to view this as a genuine structural change that has implications for career-related decisions such as a college major. They can do so without being guilty of "panicking" ... and "get a grip" and "stop panicking" aren't very useful answers.

        Absolutely -- "get a grip" was intended (as I tried to make clear) as a prelude to thoughtful calculation, not as the last word on the subject.

        But for you to set up the strawman that "*every* high-tech job in the US is about to be packed off to India" a

        • In 25 years, the US will still be the predominant economy in the world, with a proportionate technology sector. Better?

          Yes, absolutely. (From your mouth to God's ear, as they say.)

          Of course, the US is the predominant economy in the world right now, but that's not making life much easier for workers in the manufacturing sector. Most of them really do need to try to find something else to do like the farmers before them and perhaps a large percentage of programmers now.

          But my intention isn't to nitpick. I
    • It's certianly nothing against India, at least from me. But check out how much is actually going on: http://www.fuckedcompany.com/

      Half of the headlines there are for companies outsourcing to India. Damn.

      I just got my BSCS about 6 months ago and I'm currently working at Taco Bell to pay the bills after failing to find even an entry-level position in the greater Seattle area. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to scrape together some contract jobs or a tech-support position to work my way into the industry, but I'm
    • I've a theory about the outsourcing wave, before 9/11 a lot of indians already worked on the software business in US, and they were well there.

      But then 9/11, anthrax, terrorism fear, came and they became full of fear, US weren't so nice anymore and they came back to their home country.

      Almost all people i knew that was living in US came back fearing terrorism, you probably didn't fell that effect but in the 3rd world we felt very well, every one that was working in the US suddelly showed up.

      So, with all t
      • That's a really interesting point. My impression was that a lot of the immigrants here predicted the impact of the WTC attack based on the way their native country would have reacted and decided to flee as quickly as possible. But, as you say, from this side it didn't make much difference since somebody new showed up immediately to fill their shoes.

        I think the Indian software companies were driven in large part by Indians who made millions in the US in the '90's. Either they went back, or they invested thei

    • Re:Get a grip!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by GOD_ALMIGHTY ( 17678 )
      Why won't the majority of technical jobs be packed off to developing countries with similarly educated workforces that cost 1/6th of US wages? If you're a businessperson, making decisions about performance for stock holders, wouldn't you see that as a great way to boost efficiency?

      That's what business people do. That's why we had record growth last quarter but no jobs.

      While there has been some racist undertones are the part of the unintelligent who have heard of this issue, no one with half a clue would b

      • Re:Get a grip!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by moncyb ( 456490 )

        The Dept of Labor still thinks 8 of the top 10 growth jobs are in IT and tech. Recent trends show this isn't happening. Newsweek (or Time?) last Nov. had an article that talked about how everyone still seems to think the job growth is in IT and tech. None of these reports take into account the recent offshoring trends.

        Several years ago, when I was going for my degree in Electronics (graduated with an Associates, had the option of going for a BS in EE, but didn't bother), the Department of Labor was sayi

        • If I were going for a college degree these days, and it just had to be in some tech area, I'd be looking for something on the leading edge. Say maybe nanotechnology or genetic engineering. Though such a thing would still be a gamble.

          I have to assume when you talk about a 'college degree' we're talking about a Bachelor's degree. You're not going to find a BS in nanotech or GE; not only are they still areas that are still only the subjects of heavy research (PhD or ambitious MS stuff) but they also require

    • - This comment courtesy of the Calcutta Better Business Bureau.
  • Learn to dig ditches.

    Seriously, I keep thinking about learning to be a bricklayer. More fun than digging ditches, and more money. It's like working with giant LEGOs - how cool is _that_?!

    • Re:learn from the movie Office Space (Score:4, Informative)

      by bluGill ( 862 ) on Monday January 26, 2004 @06:51PM (#8093628)

      I did carpentry for several months after I last the next to last job. It is fun at times and I learned a lot. However I don't want to go back. Every day you are outside doing physical labor. 95 degrees, and you get to run in the sun carrying a heavy load. Then winter comes and you get to truge through a foot of snow when it is -10. (Our cut off for working was -20, and then only because the power tools quit working, humans can work colder than that if they have to)

      Bricklayer is worse. Bricks are heavy, and you get to carry them up a ladder, and lay them one at a time. Looks easy enough, but it is hard on the back.

      There is a reason most construction crews have a lot of young kids with one old guy watching over it all. The old guy is lucky to have a body that can take it, along with the ability to supervise (He doesn't do quite as much physical labor, but few of the kids will beat him in any move materials race when he puts his mind to it.) The kids still have a young enough body that they can abuse it in the trades. PLumbing and electric seem to be exceptions to this rule, old guys are fairly common in those trades.

      I'm not being sexist when I use the term him, and I'm not using it in a gender netural manner. Nearly all the people in construction are men. Genetics means that women cannot keep up hormons (testorosterone?) ensure that they just don't get a body that can do the job. You will see less girls on the job. OTOH, it is a sexy job, so the few girls you do see are staring at you.

    • My Father is a bricklayer, I worked with him during a couple of summer and winter breaks while I was in college. Quite frankly, even though I'm sure he would have liked me to follow in his footsteps, he's a little jelous that I work in a climate controlled environment. The saying among the bricklayers is that Februrary is the longest month of the year. Unless you have a job that can be closed off and heated its impossible to do your job because frozen mortar tends to not be structurally sound. During th
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I have been in the work force for 30 years and I have observed that a degree in engineering is about the most valuable B.S. you can have. It is assumed if you can do engineering you can probably do just about anything (i.e., management, sales, teaching, etc.).

    On the other hand, a B.S. in CompSci is a good degree but graduates are pigeon-holed as computer people.

    Disclaimer: I have an engineering degree.

  • My EE teachers always said that 90% of us EE's would end up doing software. Well, in my case at least, they were right. It is just different software - more machine level or hardware oriented. So, I would think you could get your experience to help you land more than an entry level position if you got an EE degree.

    The other comments about EE's being outsourced can be true as well. I know we have setup design centers in China, Japan, and Europe. However we are still hiring EE's at my company... but we
  • It seems as if you are motivated by greed. In the current economic situation this will get you nowhere. On the other hand if your true passion is CS, I say stick with it. I have found that the ones who truly enjoy CS are employable as they truly devote themselves to the subject. Those who do not enjoy CS faulted in the job market because they simply cannot see past the dollar signs, although the situation has improved post-bubble. If it is greed, then I will say switch to EE, as a rule of thumb, an engineer
  • Is there any reason other than potential job opportunites that is making you think about switching? There will be many, many jobs in the foreseeable future for both CS and EE types. Decide which you find more interesting: your enthusiasm for the work will drive you to become better at it and that makes you more marketable.
    At the same time, there are no guarantees...

    With your EE degree and CS experience a whole new set of fields open up for you. I've noticed even for programming work, my EE degree opens doo
  • I have a EE, work in computer science for 12 years now... My understanding of ASIC design (from the few people that I talk to that actually do it) is that it looks like a simplified C syntax.

    Yes the days of sneezing on a piece of paper - calling it a business plan, and getting rich are over. Now the tech industry requires hard work. If you are only in it for the money - go find something else. If this is what you like to do there are jobs around, there always will be, and you can make a nice living d

  • My fiance is finishing her BSEE this year and it's obvious that she may have to add some more CS courses (She switched to CS becuase she thought EE would be more interesting) now she wonders if it was worth the hassle it has been.

    I advised her since we live close to a good gaming college that she should persue game programming which will be near impossible to export to other countries. This is due to the fact that many of those places software jobs are being sent to are culturally incompatible with the ga
    • Lots of games programming is being done partially in eastern europe now. Grand theft auto for example. Outsourcing games programming to eastern europe is a big trend right now.
    • This is due to the fact that many of those places software jobs are being sent to are culturally incompatible with the games we play.

      The defense industry is pretty safe from this too, for obvious reasons. I work in this industry as a progammer. Budget cuts are another matter, however.

      I also have experience doing system adminstration, and could fall back on that if the need arises. Scripting and programming could be outsourced, sure, but it's hard to diagnose a hardware error from India.

      Pretty much

  • Ive a similar position for different reasons. I'm an underpaid Network Admin working towards my CCIE, after which I aim for the CISSP and other bunch of certificates. I'm in Canada and will also begin working towards learning french, something I always wanted but now have a major reason for (too many IT jobs in Canada absolutely require being fluent in both French and Eng).

    But Ive kept a very close eye on microcontroller markets, their costs and abilities, the dev kits, software kits including running Linu
  • What do you like to do? Do you enjoy CS? Do you enjoy EE? If you don't like either, maybe you shouldn't do either.

    Sure, if you like CS and continue at it, you may find some things difficult. But at least you'll be happy some of the time. Doing something you dislike just for the salary is a good way to be unhappy all of the time.

  • That won't save you... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stienman ( 51024 ) <adavis&ubasics,com> on Monday January 26, 2004 @10:22PM (#8095963) Homepage Journal
    The skills you need to obtain and keep a job in the USA are not the technical skills you learn in a CS or EE or CE or whatever program. The skills you need are

    1) The ability to network
    2) The ability to detect and understand business trends within your company and within your industry
    3) The ability to put forth convincing proposals for your solution, whether that solution is buying particular hardware, settling on a platform, or selling yourself
    4) The skill of shopping yourself around constantly, even if you are satisfied with your current position
    5) etc.

    The key here is not that companies are shipping your jobs to other countries, it is that they are making a product for the lowest cost possible, which is what they must do to sell it to consumers or other businesses. If you can present yourself as a low cost/return ratio, then you will always have a job if you are constantly and consistantly involved in looking for one.

    Don't buy into all this nonsense about your ideal work being shipped out. Understand that it will be, and then become the person that the company must hire in order to manage that outsorcing. You can spin this is many ways, but there's always a job for a good worker, or at least a good communicator.

    -Adam
    • >"RMS and FSF are seeking power, not freedom."

      I'm curious... I've always learnerd that with power comes money and vice versa. Now I guess I would agree that RMS&FSF are about power, but could you please point out to me where the money comes in for them? IMHO, the only reason why the free software foundation appears to be after power is to protect its ideals, which are more or less about freedom.

      Care to comment on this?
  • I used to be a CE major until I realized it was preparing me to become a Dilbert clone -- that is if I could get a job at all. My peers in the major were largely a bunch of dolts who were in it only because US News & World Report said that was where the good jobs were -- and not because of any passion for technology. I was the opposite. So what do people with a lot of passion who don't want to become corporate slaves in an unethical industry do? They start their own businesses. Sure, it's a risk, b
    • I wish to become your padawan learner... teach me the way oh great Jedi Master!
      The advice is good but hard to act upon when one is broke and a family needs feeding. Maybe the risks are too great for the average family man. Crazy risks, crazy like a fox risks. Maybe risks that are too great not to take.
    • I have came to the exact same conclusion you have. I'm an ex EE major that had a real hard time with the school grind.

      If I wanted to I could go back and finish I now. But my heart is not in it anymore. Everything has changed from 15 years ago.

      They have industrial technology degrees that look like a lot of fun, because you play in the machine shop a lot. But the job prospects are zero.

      I think that nursing (as an earlier poster mentioned) is where its at -- if you can stand to be around sick people as a ca
  • The opinion of the professional societies (IEEE, IEE and others) is that yes, outsourcing is causing higher unemployment, however outsourcing is happening all around the place in other industries as well. However, it opens opportunities: because there's always a need for the top end in the chain: the high level design, negotiating requirements with customers, project management, research and development and feasibility, etc. So while a lot of the low end work is moving out, professionals should seek to
  • Also, I'm concerned that I would only qualify for an entry-level position if I took an engineering job. Anyone have thoughts/suggestions?

    My thoughts are that a fresh graduate is by definition only qualified for an entry-level position in their particular discipline. Gone are the days of 23-year-olds with ridiculous titles like "senior engineer". In the real world, you gotta pay your dues.
  • I graduated with an EE and later returned for a CS 5 years later. Hardware is boring without software. The combination is great as there are few people who can provide end-to-end solutions. Its also a great lead-in to robotics. After 16 years, I'm thinking of becoming a tree surgeon. Seriously, if you can handle either of these two fields (and are mechanically adept), there are few occupations you couldn't handle. Try automotive electronics and repair, radiology, small business. Look at all the succe
  • I have a unique perspective on this since I have degrees in both CS and EE. Based upon overall job prospects, if I had to choose one or the other, I would definitely choose the Electrical Engineering degree.

    The reason why isn't because I think there will be more EE jobs than CS jobs. I don't have a crystal ball, so it is hard to guess what is going to happen. However, I have noticed that an EE degree (or an engineering degree, in general) opens a lot of doors in a lot of industries, compared to a CS deg
  • If there is sufficient overlap with your undergraduate program and that of a CE or EE, consider starting out with the Master's program as it is helpful in today's job market. You may have to take some undergrad classes in order to pick up necessary prerequisites. Many universities offer night courses or courses which can be viewed on the internet. Electrical & Computer engineering are broad. If you choose an area within these disciplines which is less popular (analog circuit design versus digital ci
  • Because of the miserable failure [whitehouse.gov] of the current administration, any kind of high tech job is destined to be shipped overseas. Switch to health-care or genetics. These industries seem to be hiring local. The EE & CS industries are being slowly killed by this administration. They are rewarding their base, and the only thing their base is interested in is in lowering their costs. Currently, their biggest expense is labor, and so, have targeted all cost-cutting efforts towards labor. This administration has
  • At Penn State, where I got a BS in CompSci, the computer science and computer engineering departments were one and the same. The difference between a CompSci degree and a CompEng degree was basically 3 electical engineering courses.

    At Drexel, where I attended grad school for a year and was a teaching assistant, the EE and CompEng departments were one and the same. I found from teaching my undergraduate courses (a VHDL lab), this gave the students a much lower quality of education. They couldn't program

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