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Do You Make $60/hr for Programming? 181

Posted by Cliff
from the getting-the-numbers-straight dept.
azzkicker asks: "I was reading some AP articles on offshoring. It talks about the struggles of out-of-work programmers and the shifting of jobs overseas [in the US]. Part way through one article it says: 'The average programmer commands $60 an hour in the United States, six times the rate in India.' I don't disagree with the Indian rate (USD $80/day, $400/week, $20,800/year gross), but what is with the US rate (USD $480/day, $2400/week, $124,000/year gross)? I know that programmers are billed out at high rates, but most of my programmer friends in Midwest, USA (years of experience and CS degrees) don't even see $50K/year. What is the actual rate most programmers see? Do you see $60/hr? Is the US rate misleading corporations into outsourcing?" Does offshoring really save corporations that much money?
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Do You Make $60/hr for Programming?

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  • $54k (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I make $54k a year, plus full benefits (All medical expenses paid for my family, vision, dental, vacation, and company paid pension). This is a good job, but a far cry from $60/hour.
    • by bluethundr (562578) * on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:19PM (#8107353) Homepage Journal
      I make $54k a year, plus full benefits (All medical expenses paid for my family, vision, dental, vacation, and company paid pension). This is a good job, but a far cry from $60/hour.

      Pretty amazing. I work in tech support, which is a MUCH lower competency line of work than programming and I make just a bit over $60 a year, $72 with full dental/medical. Of course that is in New York City, where $60k a year is *NOT* considered a wad of cash!

      My girlfriend makes $150k a year as corporate trainer, and (since she owns her own company) only works on average 2-3 days per week. And she has friends in her line of work who actually have the temerity to ask her "How can you work for so little income?". So, naturally, she thinks my paycheck is peanuts. I actually had a therapist tell me one time "Of course you have trouble making ends meet! You hardly make any money!" (naturally, I fired her not long after that conversation!)

      I program for enjoyment and because I like to learn. But even though it seems like a far more intellectually stimulating line of work, I don't think I'll ever persue it as a career. ESPECIALLY if it would mean having to take a cut in salary!
      • by GigsVT (208848) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:29PM (#8107485) Journal
        Corporate trainer eh?

        Does she throw them treats when they properly use buzzwords, and sniff the ass of their superiors?
      • Hmmm I make $60 as a firmware engineer in Silicon Valley. Never feels like enough after my rent checks, but not bad for a first job out of college....
      • I actually had a therapist tell me one time "Of course you have trouble making ends meet! You hardly make any money!"

        What she should have said was. "Of course you have trouble making ends meet! You employ a therapist!"
      • Keep in mind that In the midwest, $54k is a lot of money. Their cost of living is much, much lower, so it goes farther. On either coast, you'll make serious bucks (and you'll spend most of it on a decent home!). Keep in mind also that $60k is a decent just-out-of-college salary on either coast.
      • That's a typical wage for a fully qualified software developer over here. Of course, life is cheaper, but we're still pretty much screwed.
      • So .. corporate trainer?? is that the new code word for 'escort' in NYC??

        Seriouly.. if they made that much money, how is it that there isn't a billion and one "techschools" teaching people to be "corporate trainers"?? i don't see late nite earn your degree in legal assistant, nurse, GED, A/C Repair, Computer programming... including the 'corporate trainer'. That's how a friend of mine classifies that computer tech work is in the dumper when you see ads for those sorts of schools.. be a computer programme
      • My girlfriend makes $150k a year as corporate trainer, and (since she owns her own company) only works on average 2-3 days per week. And she has friends in her line of work who actually have the temerity to ask her "How can you work for so little income?".

        And she should feel horrible. She's in a stupid, anyone-with-a-peanut-could-do-it job getting grosely overpaid...

        I blame people like her for the shitty economy.
    • You're not an hourly contractor, you're a W2 employee. When hourly figures are quoted, you have to take all of those factors into consideration - your total compensation is closer to $90,000 once you do. This is still on the low side, so I'm going to assume you live in the south, which is the only place I've seen rates this low. In the northeast, there aren't really any programming contracts below $40/hr and most are between $40/hr and $60/hr. The numbers are contracts I've seen listed through agencies,
      • Also, you have to pay DOUBLE social-security (which is about 14%), FICA and SDI on a 1099, in addition to submitting quarterlies and paying state and fed. Also, the non-inflation-indexed AMT is going to sneak up and tax the fuck out of the middle class. That's why the budget projections are so rosy, that there wont be a budget deficit. Of course, none of the candidates for prez talk about the AMT nor do they talk about closing the tax loopholes for the rich and tax traps for the working poor. Damn, I be
    • I make about 35k USD, have dental (180USD value), medical (dunno how much, but probably double dental), 1 week vacation, 1 week sick days, accrued monthly, and that's it. No 401k (though one is avail. but w/o contribution matching due to "hard" times and I can't really afford it right now anywho).

      I work an average of 60 hours per week, minimum 30, sometimes 80, but 80% of the time it's between 55 and 60. We get "comp" time, no monetary compensation for overtime, but I've never seen half as much comp time a
  • by rthille (8526) <web-slashdot@NOSPam.rangat.org> on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:03PM (#8107164) Homepage Journal
    until I got laid off 40 days ago. Still, add in the insurance, vacation, etc and I can easily see $60/hour.
  • Seems low (Score:3, Informative)

    by whoda (569082) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:04PM (#8107170) Homepage
    My company bills me out at ~$160/hr.

    Of course, I only see ~1/5 of that as my hourly wage, they get the rest of it for overhead/insurance/profit/etc.
    • So why don't companies hire thier own programmers, rather than pay so much to use someone elses?
      • My guess would be, less overhead.

        When you have an employee, there's all sors of costs above and beyond his wage. You'll be paying insurance, possibly benefits, taxes, unemployment, ect. Plus you'll probably need a physical place for him to work, which means office space (rent is typically by the square foot) and equipment (outlay costs, maintenance, etc).

        When you outsource, all you get is a bill. The company you get your labor from probably operates cheaper overall (India?) and so the net cost to you is p
        • Re:Seems low (Score:3, Interesting)

          by bay43270 (267213)
          On top of the issues you mention, companies also like contractors because they fit in a different column in the balance sheet. Full time employees are liabilities. Contractors (even if employed for years) are temporary costs that can be attributed to specific projects.
        • Also, companies pay for specialized work in areas that they don't have a prayer of doing themselves. Sure, maybe they could pay a 1/3 hourly rate to program something in-house, but without the area-specific knowledge, they may spend more than 3 times the amount of time to create a product...and not even get it right when they're done.
        • well many of those costs are hidden on the bill the client gets. One that's not hidden, is the IRS(at least for american companies outsourcing to India). Since outsourcing is usually company to company, it's a company expense. Canada also has per-employee training minima and other fees that start ramping up the more you grow a business in terms of people. And finally, let's not forget that the outsourcing company has a LOT more leverage against its employees. i.e. You called in sick yesterday, and beca
      • If you only need someone for a while, for a project, there's no point in making them a permanent employee. It's expensive to get rid of people.
  • $10 / hour (Score:2, Funny)

    by flikx (191915)
    I have a BSME. I might get a raise to $15. What a great economy.
    • Right there with ya. Except I don't really don't do anything much related to engineering. Give it another nine months. Like USA Today said, America(esp. the economy) loves an election year.
    • by eXtro (258933)
      Yeah, that's your fault though. Wheel, gear, lever and inclined plane. Where's the recent inventions? ;)
  • rule of thumb (Score:5, Interesting)

    by voisine (153062) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:06PM (#8107197)
    general rule of thumb up to $100k a year or so, double the salary and that's what the employee costs the company. Payroll tax, benefits, unemployment insurance, workmans comp, increased hr resources, etc... $60/hr sounds about right.
    • wait til OSHA gets to India, then their cost/hr will start to rise too.
    • Yeah but was that what they were talking about or were they just using base salary?
    • Re:rule of thumb (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Ummagumma (137757) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @10:07PM (#8107928) Journal
      That 100% is not really true actually. The total an employee costs a company is their 'burdened rate' - generally the HR industry adds 30% of their salary to their base pay to determine this. It varies greatly by state, though, based on insurance rates, etc, and also by the benefits a company provies. More vacation = higher burdened rate, for instance.

      so, $60/hr + 30% = ~$78/hr cost to the company.
      • Re:rule of thumb (Score:3, Informative)

        by MikeDawg (721537)
        Yup, from my president, who will talk "shoot from the hip" and hosestly with me about things, we were talking about employees, and he says that all the companies he has worked with, that HR usually estimates around wages + 25-30%. He usually estimates the cost of employees as wages + 30-35%. I think these are realistic numbers for a professional company.
      • I think the point was that the hourly salary would be less becasue of the burdened rate

        60/hr * 0.7 = 42/hr

    • $60/hr sounds about right.

      I make WAY MORE than $60/hr for actual programming. Of course I don't get paid at all for sitting at my desk reading Slashdot... it all balances out :-)
  • Just my 2 cents. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Neck_of_the_Woods (305788) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:07PM (#8107209) Journal
    I know the best programmer I have ever had the chance to work with made 112k a year. Keep in mind these are "New York City" rates, where he was paying 2200 a month in rent. 1600 a year for car insurance, and 10.50 for a mixed drink at your downtown bar. Lets not get into the fact that he was working 75+ hours a week on average either.

    Down here in Florida senior programmers are lucky to see 1/2 that at best.

    Big numbers make for big headlines. No one ever puts 2 and 2 together.

    My friend, could program a circle around 10 of the best offshore programmers you could throw at him. The problem is, they(management) only sees dollar signs, not quality, not the fact you are here on the spot, and not the kind of job your doing....so what if 6 programmers offshore can't do his job, they like the way the numbers work and are not bright enough to understand that they are actually hurting the company.

    Again, what do I know. I am just your average government worker now, but I can zap you from space!

    ---typed for speed, did not check spelling or grammer. In fact I did not even read over it.

    • by jmt9581 (554192) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:18PM (#8107334) Homepage
      While there are managers who definitely don't know how to objectively judge quality of software vs. quantity of software, there are counter-examples to your superprogramming friend. I'm sure that while many people on Slashdot know talented supergeeks with amazing technical skills, everyone knows at least one or two dweebs with no skill at all who just got into IT because it sounded like a good career decision in the late 90's.

      In my opinion, the CS/IT world is going through a much-needed purging of some talentless dweebs from the workforce. Competition with overseas workers is simply part of that. I'm not saying that outsourcing programming jobs to India is always a good thing, just that it's not always a bad thing.
      • ...the CS/IT world is going through a much-needed purging of some talentless dweebs from the workforce.

        The problem is that it leaves many of the extremely talented hackers out of the work force, as well. I am an extremely talented programmer, and yet I have had little to no luck finding a "real" job since May, 2003, when I received a CS degree summa cum laude, blah blah blah. It's a damn good thing I earned enough scholarship money to receive excess checks instead of loan statements. I've been program
        • I actually thought about this as I posted, some people are bound to get burned by this. The only way around it that I can see is by differentiating yourself from the pack by doing one of a two things:
          • Know someone on the inside of a company who will hire you
          • Develop a unique skillset in a computer-related field, such as bioinformatics [rit.edu]
          • Work your ass off looking for jobs, for example I've seen a lot of full-time positions scroll by on jobs.perl.org.

          Anyways, good luck in law school. :)

    • I'm currently attending to a course on software engineering(basic being part of a software project course basically, writing of imaginary requirements document & stuff like that) and I can't help but wonder that wouldn't outsourcing the coding be a quite stupid thing to do in the long run when living in the real world, when looking at the usual reasons why software projects might fail(fucked up specs&requirements, unrealistic schedules, bad communication.. ) and when looking at why the schedules don
      • Re:Just my 2 cents. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by stevew (4845)
        Well - you can come mighty close to this - and you miss some significant details. If it takes your company 5 engineers to do the job, and Indian based solution can apply 15-25 engineers for a lower cost! Then there is the work ethic these people have -it's significant! I'm not bashing the American work ethic - just commenting that the Indian work ethic is also substantial.

        Oh - did I mention that I'm running an India based project? It seems to be going quite well. The real issues are a matter of finding e

        • 5 years from now this won't likely be a problem.

          5 years from now, your employer may not need a domestic "outsourcing manager" either. You might try being afraid for yourself.
          • 5 years from now, your employer may not need a domestic "outsourcing manager" either. You might try being afraid for yourself.

            20 years from now the only computing experts in USA will be hobbyists. All the professionals will be overseas. No more mentoring. No more masters handing down their knowledge to the starry-eyed pupils. No more in-house talent. You'll have outsourced it all.

            Then the prices will go up.

            It's a simple fact about outsourcing. It's a short-term win and a long-term loss. This is tr

        • why would you use 15-20 people if it's sensible to do it with 5 people near the client who is actually the one buying the product? what would that extra manpower help, when it could just needlessly complicate the projects planning? could they use some of those extra guys to enhance the communication between programmers, and to the client who has the real requirements(in their imagination) and to have better overview of the state of the project so that you can know better beforehand what will fail and when t
    • I know the best programmer I have ever had the chance to work with made 112k a year. Keep in mind these are "New York City" rates, where he was paying 2200 a month in rent. 1600 a year for car insurance, and 10.50 for a mixed drink at your downtown bar. Lets not get into the fact that he was working 75+ hours a week on average either.

      Try $1000 a month, easy. Mixed drinks, easily not more than $5 if you go to real pubs. It's also common for a programmer to work between 40 and 60 hours a week depending

      • Sure, you could shop around for a drink.

        1000 a month for what? Where? Could I stick you stick a 4 people in that place? He has kids and a wife.

        5 bucks for a crown and coke? Hell I can't hardly find a crown and coke in Florida for 5 dollars.

        You must be living in a 700sq box, drinking sparkling water called beer.

        Not trying to rag ya, but I don't want to live that way and I am sure he does not either.

        Find me a 1500sq apartment in south of the GWB for 1000 buck that I don't have to worry about someone cutt
        • 1000 a month for what?

          Agreed. My mom and my ex-girlfriend both live in new york and both are paying more than this. The former lives in a decent apartment but is in brooklyn pretty far from the city. The latter is in manhattan, but it's a very small studio and is only so cheap because it's student housing (columbia law) that they provide cheaper than the market rate. And she's up by columbia, which isn't the greatest area.
          • Unless you live at the tip of coney island or in mil basin, you have NOTHING to complain about. It's a 40 minute trip in on mass transit. I pay $70 a month to sit down and go anywhere in the city (brooklyn, queens, bronx and staten island are part of the city).

            Oddly enough, 2 people out of the whole is NOT an example of the full set.

            I took a sample from nytimes.com realestate. I found at least 6 appartments, two of them two bedrooms, for $1000 rent, searching in one area of brooklyn that is not even

        • You must be living in a 700sq box, drinking sparkling water called beer.

          Not trying to rag ya, but I don't want to live that way and I am sure he does not either.

          Wow, that was hypocritical. "I'm not going to say you're wrong but.. " No, I don't live in a box and I certainly don't need 1k feet+ to live in by myself. I'm not doing gymnastics or anything outlandish. Unless you are a middle american who expects to have 2000feet plus and expects to drive everywhere in their large american suv with 2 ac

    • ...My friend, could program a circle around 10 of the best offshore programmers you could throw at him...

      This sounds a bit like contempt, maybe not prejudice, but contempt. Theres some serious skillset out there in that 5.8 billions, and Ive seen too many smart unemployer russian programmers here in Toronto defeated only by their lack of papers and good english.

      Now offshoring development will hurt business for other reasons, cultural differences which cannot be reconciled despite the number of MBAs on bot
      • yea little over the top.

        My problem is with not knowing what your getting.

        That is pretty much it, plenty of very smart people everywhere. You just don't know what you getting when you outsource like you do when you have them in house.

  • Billing rate (Score:5, Insightful)

    by duffbeer703 (177751) * on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:09PM (#8107233)
    Larger companies and government agencies pay IBM or Accenture or whomever $120+/hr for even basic IT staffers.

    The programmers may be making $20-45/hr, depending on the city, but the customer still pays $$$.

    The Indians bill low and pay their people low.
  • Some people are naturally going to say that this a low number because their employer bills them out at such-and-such price. Others are going to say that this is high because they sure as hell don't make six figures as a programmer. In college as a grad student I would make anywhere from $50-$100 an hour, but consulting work is always billed at a higher rate than a salaried worker.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:10PM (#8107256)
    I bet bill rate. If you can estimate an employee's pay at 2,000hrs * hourly = 120k of the author's estimate, you can deduct the first 25% for the cost of health insurance. There's $120k.

    I know staffing agencies look to pay people 60% of their wage, estimate 20% for benefits and the meager 40% left to pay their sales staff, office staff, directors, and take a profit.

    I would say that is the average bill rate of people that work for my staffing agency and have college degrees. I know of some that make 120k+ with and without degrees. But, they are usually project managers, not coders.
  • Loaded rates (Score:4, Insightful)

    by barries (15577) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:10PM (#8107261) Homepage
    Don't forget that it costs a significant amount of money to seek, hire, train, and provide benefits (medical!) for people. Usually a $60 or $80/hr rate is a loaded rate that covers the full cost of an employee. In some cases this also pays for offsite space, utilities, equipement.

    It can also reflect the quality of talent--a well run consultancy may also try to identify and retain people with higher levels talent so you'll get higher bang for your buck as opposed to a warm bodies in chairs type permatemp agency.

    - Barrie
  • I believe that $60/hr is including the cost of benefits, 401k matching, Soc. Sec., etc. Not just the salary.
  • Data Sources (Score:2, Interesting)

    by zonx lebaam (688779)
    Its important to keep an eye on recent salary figures for any profession, but many /.ers probably have extra interest in programmer salaries Every 6 months or so, I search the internet for tech salary estimates, but have never been overwhelmed by how much [good] data is out there. Some of the surveys ask you to fill out your own data before they send numbers (which is fair enough). Many don't seem to have the numbers broken out into useful categories. A lot of the IT salary information that *is* out ther
  • Q: Do You Make $60/hr for Programming?


    A: No. Next question.


    Seriously, though, I don't make anywhere near $60/hour (and never have). Of course, I've only been out of school three years and I currently work for the government. But my last job with a startup didn't pay much more than my current one.

    • Q: Do You Make $60/hr for Programming?

      A: Yes. Next question?

      Ok, this job is special - my previous job paid $80K, but I also got a $15K signing bonus and a $15K Christmas bonus.

      But then again, I'm 45 years old and I've been doing this longer than most Slashdot readers have been alive.
  • Overhead (Score:2, Insightful)

    The average programmer salary is a bit less than that, but the overhead of keeping an employee is usually about 1.5x their salary.

    Consider the amount of hardware, office space, insurance, matching social security, etc and you start to see the programmer's cost rise.

    • Do you run your own business or are you just guessing.

      I pay 100% benefits for my employees and SS matching, and workman's comp (not to mention my companies liability, etc insurance). It doesn't run anywhere near 50%. It is around 10% per employee.
  • You mean I can get paid to program?!
  • When I taught IT I was regularly billed out at $300 an hour, but only made $20 dollars an hour. As a consultant these days (when I can find contracts) I get billed out between $75 - $150 an hour, making usually 1/3 to 1/4th of that. None of that includes taxes such as self employment tax. Overall I typically net 45-55% of my pay. Maybe I should move to India ... While it is possible to apply for a visa [indianconsulate.com] I have never found an IT professional who was successful in getting one, though I know many who have tried
  • im pretty damn sure these are billing rates. My company did some outsourcing and I happened to see their rates, and they were about $15/hr. I as an intern, at this same company was billed out for about $50/hr (note: at .com boom height). When I later joined on as a full timer, my position was billed around $75/hr (I personally was on a contract project so hours didnt really apply). I read somewhere this week that the average programmer in india makes about $8/hr. The company I am at now, which pays clos
  • I was earning less than $400 a month back in 2001...
    You people should start outsourcing to Portugal. Looks like we're even cheaper than the Indians!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm a freelance Unix consultant, I used to consider my rates low, not any more though.

    I wouldn't have a problem charging $60/hr for certain jobs depending on how quickly it needs to get done.

    I've cleaned up after many an offshore programmer (but some are pretty damn good).
  • Contractors do... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Arkham (10779) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:36PM (#8107585)
    I've been going through resumes this week and all the programmers are billing at $66-$70/hour. The rule of thumb is you have to pay $7/hour or 10% (whichever is more) to your contracting company (MDI, Matrix, etc) for paperwork and such.

    So, yes, contract programmers are making that much. Permanent employees are not.
  • Back when I did the consulting thing, we billed out at $100-$125/hour easily. Our most junior programmer would have been $75/hour, and I don't think we even went that low... and this was 3+ years ago, in a small firm, working mostly word-of-mouth contracts (there were 10 of us total).

    Now, how much of that did *I* see? A lot less than $100 an hour, that's for sure :-). But I do think that our consultants were well worth the money -- we typically got things done in less overall time and with much higher
  • by wowbagger (69688) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:57PM (#8107822) Homepage Journal
    I make about US$40/hr direct pay - add vacation time, 401K contributions, medical, and I "see" about US$60/hr. Then I wave bye-bye to about $20/hr at least as Uncle Sugar takes his cut.

    Given that I live in the relatively cheap Midwest rather than on the coasts, I do pretty well.

    However - I have been doing this for over 16 years. I've been with my current company 13 years. I am one of the lead software architects here. I do everything from signal processing to OS design to systems to UI to test, and I do it damn well.

    Sure, if you are fresh out of school, fuggetaboutit. Pay your dues, know your stuff, and be somebody your company can count upon to get the job done and you MAY be able to rise to my level.
  • Well damn. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by /dev/trash (182850) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @09:59PM (#8107845) Homepage Journal
    When I had a full time job I made 28k a year. Now that I have some part time work, I get around 8 bucks an hour. So I call bullshit on this article.
  • Is the move off-shore to decrease development spending? Where will the "money that is saved" go? Will this saved money offset the cost of some of the outrageuosly priced software packages out there? Or will it go to the 'powers that be'? Has anyone been involved in a situation like this?
  • no I don't (Score:1, Insightful)

    by slothman32 (629113)
    Right now I don't have a job so no I don't get $60 an hour. When I did it was closer to $15. If I got a job it would be entry level and much less than $60. The few programmers, relatively, might get that much but that many out of jobs don't.
  • This may seem like offtopic but this article is a very interesting read. Please read the link to NY Times article that's in the first para as well. Well here's the article (read it in full if you will)

    Who really benefits from outsourcing [mises.org]

    Another thing which most of us miss out when looking at cheaper cost of programmers in foreign lands is the currency exchange rate. Those programmers are actually very very expensive compared to other labor (look at their national per capita income) in their locale. It i
    • Okay, that doesn't make any sense. Exchange rates are irrelevant for this. If you did peg the rupee to the dollar, there'd be a sudden and highly disruptive shift in wages in India, and proportional wages would still remain the same -- a programmer would earn a lot, and a maid a little. And the dollar value would be about the same.
  • Yeah, that's what I bill for regular programming, on contract, 1099. Assuming 2000 hr/year that $120K gross; figure that you pay about 30 percent of that for benefits and 8 percent for the employer's share of FICA, and we get something like $72K. Makes sense.
  • When I was an IT consultant, my rate was $65 an hour. But that was 2 years ago..... Now I don't do consulting anymore. Got sick of travel....

  • When I'm on contract, I'll take 75-85/hr, but
    for a long-term gig on W-2, I settle for
    45-60. I live in rural Minnesota and I've
    never sat in a cubicle. Cubicles are fatal
    to your AGI.
  • Multiply the hourly rate by 1000 and you'll have ~your salary. $60 an hour would only equate to around $60,000 per year. Remember, you only run between 45-60% utilization.
  • For 2002 (only using that because the calculation was easy), I made $27/hour gross. My employer bills my time at $68/hour, so the estimates of "you cost the company twice your salary" are low in my case. But, I'm salaried, and the $27/hour is based on the gross pay divided by the number of hours I logged.

    This as one of those buzzword-compliant web developers for a medium-size company. At the same time, the company was going to other firms for the design work and some applications because they didn't beli

  • Benefits in India (Score:3, Informative)

    by rueger (210566) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @11:39PM (#8108817) Homepage
    A number of people have pointed to the cost of non-salary benefits like health insurance. For comparison, here is what Cognizant [cognizant.com], an off-shore IT outsourcing company lists as benefits packages for American [cognizant.com] and Indian [cognizant.com] employees. There is a notable difference.

    Here's what GE Global Research [ge.com] offers in benefit packages to American [ge.com] , Indian [ge.com] and Chinese [ge.com] employees. Again, you can see that there are significant savings in benefit costs.
  • Salaries. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Lead developer, DBA, network admin, system analyst, "figure it out guy": $75k
    2nd senior programmer: $47k
    3rd senior programmer: $60k
    4th senior programmer: $50k
    Senior Network Admin: $55k
    2nd Junior Admin: $45k
    3rd Junior Admin: $42k
    4th Junior Admin: $38k

    Contrast:
    Common Data Entry: $28k
    Data Verifier: $35k
    Office Manager: $75k
    Regional Manager: $100k
    Executive: $115k to $140k (they GET bonuses, sometimes in the way of $250k a quarter)

    That's gross salary, not net. We have a decent 401k that averages t

  • http://www.talenteconomymag.com/include/article2. p hp?articleID=132 [talenteconomymag.com]

    Read the article for context but here's the quick quote.

    "The worst-paid jobs are Webmaster, tech writer and support engineer, whose billing rates ranged in the low $30s per hour. That's not surprising, given the increasingly simple tools available to design and maintain Websites, and the weak demand for writers and general engineering support.

    The best-paid jobs were database developers and administrators. Depending on experience they c
  • $9.50 an hour and all of the ice I can eat.

    Of course, as an indentured servant for the University of Texas, so it is to be expected...

  • I just did the math. I get paid about $126/hr to program, $53/hr for managing my staff, $11/hr for humouring my boss (see, I did mention you!), $2/hr for listening to users explain how they think a computer works, and I have to pay the company $5/hr for reading /. at work. These numbers are estimates, but the total works out to within a few pennies.

    Hmmm. Maybe I should use these figures to re-prioritize my work day...

    Naaaa...

    -- MarkusQ (chaneling Wally)

  • If salary grows exponentially, I'll be making $400,000/yr in 2010.

    I don't doubt that there are a lot of programmers out there raking in over $100,000, even in my area. They are certainly worth it.
  • $150/hour... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by samdu (114873) <samdu AT ronintech DOT com> on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @05:22AM (#8110781) Homepage
    I'm not a programmer, I'm a Tech Consultant, but I ask for and get $150/hour. I consider programmers' jobs to be much more difficult than mine. I'm kind of surprised that the programmers here are making so much less than I would have expected.
  • > Dear Sir,
    >
    > I am currently seeking a full time programmer to perform general
    > maintenance and feature enhancements on my C++ code base. The software is
    > an open source decompiler that is used by our engineers for the recovery
    > of lost source code. The entire code base is over 216 thousand lines of
    > code and over 6 years old. I am hoping to hire this full time developer
    > towards the end of the first quarter of 2004. This would be a long term
    > appointment, hopefully with the a
  • Contractor 60/hr cheap
    no benefits, few obligations, instant downsizing, no training costs, no retraining costs.

    Expectation that all time is applied and on target.

    Employee 60/hr
    Might not include benifits
    doesn't include burden of office, management, training and retraining.

    The biggest expense in all this is the opportunity cost which is small for the contractor since s\he is only there if there is an opportunity.

    The employee, unless they are hired specifically for the task (like a contractor), is an ongoi

"And do you think (fop that I am) that I could be the Scarlet Pumpernickel?" -- Looney Tunes, The Scarlet Pumpernickel (1950, Chuck Jones)

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