Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Books Media Patents

Suggested Reading for IP Lawyers? 64

Posted by Cliff from the books-for-the-personal-library dept.
Javert42 asks: "As graduation day comes nearer, and after reading two articles in Wired, the idea of graduate work in Computer Science isn't looking so appealing. I've been considering studying IP law for a few months, but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy on the topics of copyrights, patents, and other IP issues, especially as they relate to computing. What reading material can you suggest that presents the key issues objectively (to start off with), and what can you suggest as far as argumentative works go?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Suggested Reading for IP Lawyers? More

Suggested Reading for IP Lawyers?

Comments Filter:

  • Reading the stories... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gooberguy ( 453295 ) <gooberguy@gmail.com> on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:10PM (#8124807)
    I've been considering studying IP law for a few months, but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot...

    You aren't really diversifying your experience then are you?
  • The U.S. Constitution [house.gov]. Lawyers and politicians seem to have been forgetting it lately. Course its kind of useless outside of the US and her "territories".

  • Anything by Lawrence Lessig (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Like The Future of Ideas: The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World [amazon.com] and Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace [amazon.com], plus his blog [lessig.org] and if you can find it, his grocery list.

  • Try your local law school bookstore... (Score:3, Informative)

    by mbstone ( 457308 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:13PM (#8124830)
    ...and buy some green, hardcover West Hornbooks, or some softcover In A Nutshell summaries of copyright, patent and trademark law.

    Or you could try sites such as The Intellectual Property Page [intelproplaw.com] or one of several hundred other sites that a search engine [google.com] would provide.

  • Isn't that funny... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dmayle ( 200765 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:14PM (#8124834) Homepage Journal

    but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy

    And so you post a question to Ask Slashdot?

  • Casebooks for Law Students (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CaptainStormfield ( 444795 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:17PM (#8124857)
    I would recommend picking up a few casebooks written for law students (probably available in your university bookstore, or your university's lawschool bookstore, or in your university's library or law library). These are useful for a several of reasons:

    (1) they'll give you a good, thought-provoking overview of the field;

    (2) most casebooks do not assume much background legal knowledge (though they'll probably assume *some* background legal knowledge),

    (3) the cases in the books are "boiled down" versions that present only the important bits of the cases; and

    (4) the casebooks are (relatively) objective.
    • As a law student interested in intellectual property law, I think I can safely counsel against this.

      Casebooks are written for law students, even if they don't assume much background knowledge. They are edited down judicial decisions and are kind of dense for the uninitiated.

      I'd recommend the books written by Lessig, such as "Code" and "The Future of Ideas." They're written for a more general audience, but are chock full of legal goodness.

    • Hmm, IANAL, but I am going to law school this fall; partly because I want to understand IP law. I've been reading a lot about what to expect, and talking with judges, lawyers, and current law students. From this perspective, I think the above recommendation is a bit off because:

      1. From what I understand of casebooks, they comprise court briefs of cases that either set trends or highlight a specific area of law for the subject involved. If you can read through hundreds of pages of small-print mind-numbing

      • IAAL. All of the casebooks that I've encountered contain cases, not briefs. While its true that casebooks often do require you to figure out the legal principals/policies at play, rather than just laying them out for you like a study aid or an outline, I still believe that they can provide a useful overview. Thinking specifically of my copyright book, I would think that any person of reasonable intelligence would find the book approcable and interesting. Then again, perhaps law school and practice have

  • This might be useful? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Chexsum ( 583832 ) <chexsum@gmail.BOHRcom minus physicist> on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:22PM (#8124907) Homepage Journal
    Literary Law Guide for Authors [slashdot.org] [/. book review :]
  • It's seem theres an increase in cs grads who see the job market and think crap why did i get into cs the money's not there anymore? What happened to doing a job you love? Is everything just about money? I don't see how you can pick a college career and then at the end of 4 years of hard work want to throw it away and become a lawyer. I guess as you get older people see where their real strengths are.
    • QUIET! Let the OP leave if he/she doesn't love CS enough to go for it anyway. Sounds like the sort that would make a "good" lawyer anyway. If all they are interested in is the money, we don't want them in our profession anyway. And it seems to me that all most lawyers are interested in is finding a way to make a quick buck off someone else.

      Maybe someday half the population will be lawyers and they will each have only one client. Did you ever thing about the fact that that means that the rest of us (
    • That is the best thing that could happen to the field.

      With the dotcom boom, every idiot who would have done undergraduate study bullshit courses like "business" or "education" decided to study IT or MIS because it was a money major.

      The purge that is following the boom will winnow out most of the chaff and leave the competent professionals who belong there behind. Outsourcing will devastate the big software companies in the next few years and leave the doors open for the next generation of software.
    • I think there's a bit of a difference between "being in it for the money"/expecting a big paycheck after college and wondering if you're going to starve to death. The typical slashdot "I was outsourced to India" story doesn't start "I used to make $100K/yr and now I only make $40K", but "I used to make $100K/yr and now I fight with birds for crumbs of bread on the street".

  • Some thoughts from a Cyberlaw professor (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jezor ( 51922 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:42PM (#8125128) Homepage
    As someone who teaches Cyberlaw and runs a program on law and technology [tourolaw.edu], I'd urge you to consider broadening your horizons a bit, and to focus on practical rather than theoretical discussions. As relevant as IP law is to the technology industries, it is only one small part of the whole picture. Contract law, corporate structure finance (yes, even in this post-bubble era!), privacy law and especially international law are also crucial subjects to learn.

    I'd echo the sentiments of those who said to take a look at casebooks and other law school texts in a local library. You can also go to the sources for IP law: the U.S. Copyright Office [copyright.gov] and Patent and Trademark Office [uspto.gov] have some good basic info, as does the Federal Trade Commission on privacy rules [ftc.gov]. This site [ebusinessforum.com] has a good list of info. on doing e-business throughout the world. Finally, for an introduction to Internet-related business legal issues, you can always find my book [clickingthrough.com] in a local library.

    Finally, you'll need to decide if you actually want to be a lawyer. Law school is rather expensive these days, even for state schools, and the loan burden for many of our students is severe. Feel free to e-mail me [mailto] if you'd like to ponder this further. {Professor Jonathan Ezor}

    • Perfect advice. I would only qualify that by suggesting that there are opportunities in IP other than being a lawyer. For example, a licesing executive, a para-legal, etc. You don't need to do a full law degree, you can (at least, here in the UK) take a masters in IP that is designed for people with technical / non-law backgrounds. Otherwise, I agree with all of your comments as I have already taken a masters in IP at Queen Mary.

  • some suggested papers and articles (Score:3, Informative)

    by dh003i ( 203189 ) <dh003i@gmail. c o m> on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:48PM (#8125222) Homepage Journal
    Patent Wrongs [mises.org], Illana Mercer

    Rethinking Patent Law [mises.org], Gene Callahan

    Against Intellectual Property [mises.org], Stephen Kinsella

  • Ask Groklaw? (Score:2, Informative)

    by gmhowell ( 26755 )
    Seriously, go read Groklaw. And maybe call up a local attorney. Certainly somewhere in your circle of friends/family, someone has contact with some kind of attorney. Finagle an informational interview.
  • I'm a programmer by trade, and have worked as a consultant for almost 6 years now. Almost 3 years ago, I started attending Law school, on top of my daytime job.

    This semester, I'm taking a class on intellectual rights, which was the reason I started anyway. I'm glad I did the whole course, rather than just this part, as IR is just too much embedded in the justice system to single out. It's a lot of effort, but it's worth it.

    One important thing I learned: never represent yourself in court. Even lawyers don
  • Learn the law, then form opinions and philosophies.

    The world doesn't need anymore crusading lawyers. If you know what the law means, you will be able to suggest intelligent modifications and interpret it correctly.
  • Don't go to law school. You've already demonstrated that you aren't willing or able to do any footwork of your own when it comes to research (you only know things you've read on Slashdot, and you posted and Ask Slashdot for more information), which is a strong counterindication to being a successful law student. Save yourself the hassle and cost of applying and the cost of attending for that first year.
  • See here. [berkeley.edu]

  • Whu? (Score:2)

    by FFFish ( 7567 )
    You want to become an IP lawyer.

    Would that be IP lawyer, as in those scum-sucking demons from hell that patents ridiculous "it's doing X... on the Internet!" claims, then runs about suing that ass off everyone and their dog who thought about it before you?

    Would that be IP lawyer, like those cursed unnameable evil ones who work for SCO, stealing open-source code and claiming it for their own?

    Would that be IP lawyer, like the ones who are racing around the world patenting perfectly ordinary plants and ani
    • What about the lawyers on the other side of the situations you describe? What about the lawyers who are fighting the SCO suits? "Good", like many things in the world, depends on the viewer's perspective.

      Interesting response, however. It made me think.
      • If it weren't for the multitude of scum-sucking slime lawyers, like the SCO creeps, there wouldn't be a need for the opposing "Good" laywers that fight against them.

        There are good lawyers in the IP industry, hell, yes.

        They are not, IMO, in the majority.
        • There are good lawyers in the IP industry, hell, yes.

          Something tells me the "good" lawyers are doing an awful lot of pro bono work for nonprofits, while the "bad" lawyers are getting paid well ... or rather the partners are getting paid well for the work that their less-well-paid associates are doing.

          I think it was Woody Allen who said, "The good people sleep much better at night than the bad people. Of course, the bad people enjoy the waking hours much more." Probably applies to lawyers as well.

          Q: Wh

      • Re:Whu? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by angle_slam ( 623817 )
        Lawyers just do the bidding of their clients. The lawyers for SCO include David Boies. I bet a lot of slashdotters loved him when he was fighting against George Bush, against Microsoft, or for Napster. But he gets another client and he becomes an "evil lawyer".

        /. loves IBM's attorneys now, but both [cravath.com] firms [swlaw.com] on IBM's side are large (300+ attorneys) firms that will possibly, someday, be on the side that you don't approve of. Then, they will become "evil".

    • Well, there are the lawyers working at the EFF.

  • From a law student: Don't go to law school... (Score:3, Informative)

    by cleetus ( 123553 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @05:40PM (#8128048) Homepage
    ...unless you really want to become a lawyer. This means that you really know what lawyers do, like doing it, and like doing it for 60+ hours per week .

    Look up some IP lawyers at the larger firms in your area and give them a call. Ask questions about the quantity and quality of their day-to-day workload. And I'm not talking partners, I'm talking associates--'cause that's what you'll start off as.

    IP law is interesting, and I am enjoying learning it, partly because so much of it is wrong ;) The problem is that few associates get to work on anything so interesting.

    There are other options besides becoming a lawyer once you graduate of course, but they are few and far between. Oh, and don't forget about the crushing debt!

    YMMV of course, and IANALY (y = yet), but most associates I know would counsel against becoming a lawyer.

    cleetus
  • Any lawyer stuck on where to investigate can find a wealth of information here. They can Google and Altavista and Metacrawler. The point is that researching IP in hardcopy is a total joke. IP lives at internet speeds now and without 'catching the wave,' so to speak they will always be in the wake of progress.

  • I'm an IP lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geeklawyer ( 85727 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @06:55PM (#8128932) Homepage Journal
    What you really need to do is get some practical experience of the law. Its not enough to read /., though all the IANAL's are good for a laugh. Obviously you understand that you typically get one end of the spectrum on this site. Thats not a bad thing and I agree with the policy concerns the majority here express. But its also important to take it from the other end too - understand the paranoia and, yes, greed of business. You should do this because you will virtually never be representing FOSS companies. As a lawyer you are a hired gun and sometimes your firm may ask you to represent some piece of slime like SCO. How are you going to handle that? If you're an associate and keen to progress you aren't going to say to your senior partner "screw you, I'm not on that team." You are or you're out - and out probably means out of the profession - unlike me few lawyers get to choose their clients and even I dont get to choose as often as I would like.

    You'll need to develop a thick skin - as this thread shows most will hate you. Many will despise you; some will mean it, some follow the mob, some envy your money. It only ever changes when they need you or if like me you help out Free software users/companies. You have to let it bounce off, and if you can't it's not the job for you.

    Practical exposure to the law will help: ask law firms if there are any prospects for temporary work, internships, offer to work free for a couple of weeks, whatever - you'll be really really lucky if you succeed. Or try a free legal advice project anything to get a handle on real law. It's enough to convince some people the law is not for them - for others it cements the motivation. By the way I recommend pro bono work for FOSS groups or digital campaign groups; it's a great antidote to regular clients & just feels good.

    Once you've done that google & start reading a wide variety of stuff; but dont confine yourself to rant pages like /., Lessig has done some very thoughtful policy essays. But also hang out in the inventors & business Usenet forums and ask them: you need a variety of views and user objectives. Contrary to what /.'ers think its not ALL about megacorps screwing over the little man. As for reading material if you want to get a handle on policy you'll find that you wont understand the best texts until you have a good grounding in IP law. At the same time the 101 course materials tend to be a bit dry so I dont have any good suggestions - but the USPTO site is quite interesting.

    The professor raises the other important point which is finance. Its an expensive long process to undertake and the competition is ferocious. Lots of people burn out and some get there only to wish they hadn't. Understand that you might also find yourself practising in an area you hadn't intended: you might want to be an IP lawyer but you might wind up doing crime or corporate finance crap because that's all you could get; it's happened to a few friends of mine. yech.
    Good luck!

    • I'm in Health Informatics, and we have several specialized news services. Unfortunately the minimum time from acceptance for publication in a peer reviewed journal to publication typically runs from 18 months to three years. Additionally, we wait for the data in those Journals to be released in searchable electronic format, that's usually another year. So now we're talking 2.5 to 4 years.

      Then there's the little matter of people actually accessing the data, verifying for themselves the validity of the da

      • I'm certainly not defending 'bad patents'. In fact I don't even defend 'good' patents - I think they are a very poor way to encourage innovation and have little objective economic justification. And that's European patents - The US patent system is even worst; probably the worst in the western world.

        Your point about the USPTO, if I understand you correctly, is right and even they recognise and admit it. The have problems of too few and too inexperienced patent examiners and it's a particular problem in the

        • My view of patents for software is that they are the antithesis of innovation. However there are a few notable exceptions; such as token-ring. Between the dns translation patent and today's modification of the XFree86 terms I wonder (jokingly) if I could file a patent for the technology to include copyright information in source code. On the flip side I constatly have to fight my bosses who won't put my work into the public domain to try and convince them that there is nothing patentable in it! But back
  • If you want to be a patent attorney, you should check whether your undergraduate degree meets the requirements [uspto.gov]. Mine didn't: for CS only, your degree must be from a school with a specific accreditation, which my highly prestigious/snobbish Ivy League school didn't have. I suspect this is because they think somebody out there is giving "computer science" degrees for how-to-use-Microsoft-Word courses.

    Anyway, as a result, I'm now a corporate lawyer instead. You don't need to be a patent attorney to do liti
  • http://www.wikipedia.org
    Has great reading about software patents trademarks technology and much much more.
  • I don't think this would have anything not already familiar to one has studied the law, but it would help you to understand the controversy in more depth.

    My objective in writing Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads [goingware.com] was to give the legions of peer-to-peer music downloaders a basic lesson in history, copyright law and political activism, in hopes that they might use their considerable numbers to bring about copyright reform.

    I give all the links that the article title promises in order to g

  • If you've already decided to go to law school, there is no need to learn about the law before you attend. You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn the law after you start law school.
  • Though not entirely IP-related, one book I really enjoyed reading latest was People's History of the Supreme Court [amazon.com] by Peter Irons.

  • From the Lessig blog December 19:
    Posner is a friend. I was his clerk. But the best thing about being his clerk is that he does his own writing, which means the clerk's job is just to disagree. But in the area of copyright and patent, I've found less and less to disagree with. Indeed, if you want a brilliant and balanced analysis of a wide range of IP issues, from the perspective of economics, see his (and Professor Landes') latest book, The Economic Structure of Intellectual Property Law. [amazon.com]

    I haven't read
  • I have an interest in the law, but no desire to be a lawyer. I know many lawyers, and I hire them on occasion. Other than trial lawyers, who are like fighter pilots, lawyers tend to either be boring or bored with their work.
  • EPC (European Patent Convention) by Singer/Stauder.

    You don't need to know US law, your patent will be issued anyway. :-P
    The only thing you need is a good mouth: according to my colleagues in the US, you can work it all out during an interview.

Slashdot Top Deals

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Close