Suggested Reading for IP Lawyers? 64
Javert42 asks: "As graduation day comes nearer, and after reading two articles in Wired, the idea of graduate work in Computer Science isn't looking so appealing. I've been considering studying IP law for a few months, but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy on the topics of copyrights, patents, and other IP issues, especially as they relate to computing. What reading material can you suggest that presents the key issues objectively (to start off with), and what can you suggest as far as argumentative works go?"
Reading the stories... (Score:3, Insightful)
You aren't really diversifying your experience then are you?
Re:Reading the stories... (Score:2)
"Lie down with pigs...
Proof... (Score:1)
Must read document (Score:2)
Re:Must read document (Score:2)
Re:Must read document (Score:2)
Anything by Lawrence Lessig (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Anything by Lawrence Lessig (Score:1)
Try your local law school bookstore... (Score:3, Informative)
Or you could try sites such as The Intellectual Property Page [intelproplaw.com] or one of several hundred other sites that a search engine [google.com] would provide.
Isn't that funny... (Score:4, Insightful)
but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy
And so you post a question to Ask Slashdot?
Casebooks for Law Students (Score:5, Interesting)
(1) they'll give you a good, thought-provoking overview of the field;
(2) most casebooks do not assume much background legal knowledge (though they'll probably assume *some* background legal knowledge),
(3) the cases in the books are "boiled down" versions that present only the important bits of the cases; and
(4) the casebooks are (relatively) objective.
Re:Casebooks for Law Students (Score:2, Interesting)
Casebooks are written for law students, even if they don't assume much background knowledge. They are edited down judicial decisions and are kind of dense for the uninitiated.
I'd recommend the books written by Lessig, such as "Code" and "The Future of Ideas." They're written for a more general audience, but are chock full of legal goodness.
Re:Casebooks for Law Students (Score:2)
Hmm, IANAL, but I am going to law school this fall; partly because I want to understand IP law. I've been reading a lot about what to expect, and talking with judges, lawyers, and current law students. From this perspective, I think the above recommendation is a bit off because:
1. From what I understand of casebooks, they comprise court briefs of cases that either set trends or highlight a specific area of law for the subject involved. If you can read through hundreds of pages of small-print mind-numbing
Re:Casebooks for Law Students (Score:1)
This might be useful? (Score:3, Informative)
are you in it just for the money? (Score:1)
Re:are you in it just for the money? (Score:2)
Maybe someday half the population will be lawyers and they will each have only one client. Did you ever thing about the fact that that means that the rest of us (
Re:are you in it just for the money? (Score:2)
With the dotcom boom, every idiot who would have done undergraduate study bullshit courses like "business" or "education" decided to study IT or MIS because it was a money major.
The purge that is following the boom will winnow out most of the chaff and leave the competent professionals who belong there behind. Outsourcing will devastate the big software companies in the next few years and leave the doors open for the next generation of software.
Re:are you in it just for the money? (Score:1)
Some thoughts from a Cyberlaw professor (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd echo the sentiments of those who said to take a look at casebooks and other law school texts in a local library. You can also go to the sources for IP law: the U.S. Copyright Office [copyright.gov] and Patent and Trademark Office [uspto.gov] have some good basic info, as does the Federal Trade Commission on privacy rules [ftc.gov]. This site [ebusinessforum.com] has a good list of info. on doing e-business throughout the world. Finally, for an introduction to Internet-related business legal issues, you can always find my book [clickingthrough.com] in a local library.
Finally, you'll need to decide if you actually want to be a lawyer. Law school is rather expensive these days, even for state schools, and the loan burden for many of our students is severe. Feel free to e-mail me [mailto] if you'd like to ponder this further. {Professor Jonathan Ezor}
Re:Some thoughts from a Cyberlaw professor (Score:2)
Perfect advice. I would only qualify that by suggesting that there are opportunities in IP other than being a lawyer. For example, a licesing executive, a para-legal, etc. You don't need to do a full law degree, you can (at least, here in the UK) take a masters in IP that is designed for people with technical / non-law backgrounds. Otherwise, I agree with all of your comments as I have already taken a masters in IP at Queen Mary.
some suggested papers and articles (Score:3, Informative)
Rethinking Patent Law [mises.org], Gene Callahan
Against Intellectual Property [mises.org], Stephen Kinsella
Ask Groklaw? (Score:2, Informative)
Law school (Score:2)
This semester, I'm taking a class on intellectual rights, which was the reason I started anyway. I'm glad I did the whole course, rather than just this part, as IR is just too much embedded in the justice system to single out. It's a lot of effort, but it's worth it.
One important thing I learned: never represent yourself in court. Even lawyers don
Studying IP Law (Score:2)
The world doesn't need anymore crusading lawyers. If you know what the law means, you will be able to suggest intelligent modifications and interpret it correctly.
IP Lawyer Reading Material (Score:1)
You've Already Failed (Score:2)
Re:You've Already Failed (Score:1)
While this may be a worthy point, you may want to check a dictionary [m-w.com].
Re:You've Already Failed (Score:1)
Re:You've Already Failed (Score:1)
cyberlaw syllabus (Score:2)
Whu? (Score:2)
Would that be IP lawyer, as in those scum-sucking demons from hell that patents ridiculous "it's doing X... on the Internet!" claims, then runs about suing that ass off everyone and their dog who thought about it before you?
Would that be IP lawyer, like those cursed unnameable evil ones who work for SCO, stealing open-source code and claiming it for their own?
Would that be IP lawyer, like the ones who are racing around the world patenting perfectly ordinary plants and ani
Re:Whu? (Score:1)
Interesting response, however. It made me think.
Re:Whu? (Score:2)
There are good lawyers in the IP industry, hell, yes.
They are not, IMO, in the majority.
Re:Whu? (Score:2)
Something tells me the "good" lawyers are doing an awful lot of pro bono work for nonprofits, while the "bad" lawyers are getting paid well ... or rather the partners are getting paid well for the work that their less-well-paid associates are doing.
I think it was Woody Allen who said, "The good people sleep much better at night than the bad people. Of course, the bad people enjoy the waking hours much more." Probably applies to lawyers as well.
Q: Wh
Re:Whu? (Score:3, Insightful)
/. loves IBM's attorneys now, but both [cravath.com] firms [swlaw.com] on IBM's side are large (300+ attorneys) firms that will possibly, someday, be on the side that you don't approve of. Then, they will become "evil".
Re:Whu? (Score:2)
Well, there are the lawyers working at the EFF.
From a law student: Don't go to law school... (Score:3, Informative)
Look up some IP lawyers at the larger firms in your area and give them a call. Ask questions about the quantity and quality of their day-to-day workload. And I'm not talking partners, I'm talking associates--'cause that's what you'll start off as.
IP law is interesting, and I am enjoying learning it, partly because so much of it is wrong
There are other options besides becoming a lawyer once you graduate of course, but they are few and far between. Oh, and don't forget about the crushing debt!
YMMV of course, and IANALY (y = yet), but most associates I know would counsel against becoming a lawyer.
cleetus
Re:From a law student: Don't go to law school... (Score:2)
Read Slashdot! (Score:1)
I'm an IP lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
You'll need to develop a thick skin - as this thread shows most will hate you. Many will despise you; some will mean it, some follow the mob, some envy your money. It only ever changes when they need you or if like me you help out Free software users/companies. You have to let it bounce off, and if you can't it's not the job for you.
Practical exposure to the law will help: ask law firms if there are any prospects for temporary work, internships, offer to work free for a couple of weeks, whatever - you'll be really really lucky if you succeed. Or try a free legal advice project anything to get a handle on real law. It's enough to convince some people the law is not for them - for others it cements the motivation. By the way I recommend pro bono work for FOSS groups or digital campaign groups; it's a great antidote to regular clients & just feels good.
Once you've done that google & start reading a wide variety of stuff; but dont confine yourself to rant pages like /., Lessig has done some very thoughtful policy essays. But also hang out in the inventors & business Usenet forums and ask them: you need a variety of views and user objectives. Contrary to what /.'ers think its not ALL about megacorps screwing over the little man. As for reading material if you want to get a handle on policy you'll find that you wont understand the best texts until you have a good grounding in IP law. At the same time the 101 course materials tend to be a bit dry so I dont have any good suggestions - but the USPTO site is quite interesting.
The professor raises the other important point which is finance. Its an expensive long process to undertake and the competition is ferocious. Lots of people burn out and some get there only to wish they hadn't. Understand that you might also find yourself practising in an area you hadn't intended: you might want to be an IP lawyer but you might wind up doing crime or corporate finance crap because that's all you could get; it's happened to a few friends of mine. yech.
Good luck!
Re:I'm an IP lawyer (Score:1)
Then there's the little matter of people actually accessing the data, verifying for themselves the validity of the da
Re:I'm an IP lawyer (Score:2)
Your point about the USPTO, if I understand you correctly, is right and even they recognise and admit it. The have problems of too few and too inexperienced patent examiners and it's a particular problem in the
Re:I'm an IP lawyer (Score:1)
Check patent bar requirements (Score:2)
Anyway, as a result, I'm now a corporate lawyer instead. You don't need to be a patent attorney to do liti
You can get lost in wikipedia! (Score:1)
Has great reading about software patents trademarks technology and much much more.
Here's an argumentative piece for you (Score:2)
My objective in writing Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads [goingware.com] was to give the legions of peer-to-peer music downloaders a basic lesson in history, copyright law and political activism, in hopes that they might use their considerable numbers to bring about copyright reform.
I give all the links that the article title promises in order to g
No need to learn the law before law school (Score:2)
my suggest (Score:1)
Lessig's suggestion: Judge Posner textbook (Score:2)
Posner is a friend. I was his clerk. But the best thing about being his clerk is that he does his own writing, which means the clerk's job is just to disagree. But in the area of copyright and patent, I've found less and less to disagree with. Indeed, if you want a brilliant and balanced analysis of a wide range of IP issues, from the perspective of economics, see his (and Professor Landes') latest book, The Economic Structure of Intellectual Property Law. [amazon.com]
I haven't read
There's a lawyer glut (Score:2)
IP law reading (Score:2)
You don't need to know US law, your patent will be issued anyway. :-P
The only thing you need is a good mouth: according to my colleagues in the US, you can work it all out during an interview.