Cable TV Versus Satellite TV?

rufey writes "In the next few weeks I'll be moving and am thinking about getting either cable TV or satellite. I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL), so getting cable TV bundled with broadband is not an option I'm considering. Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact). What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception? Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."

Satellite has one big advantage

[corebreech]

I've only had experience with the DVR Time/Warner cable was offering and it wouldn't let you time-shift anything but PPV content, but I don't know if that applies to Comcast as well. If it does, you could stick a TiVO or your own DVR into the equation, but then what you're doing is decoding the MPEG from your cable provider, then reencoding it back into MPEG when it gets saved to the hard disk, which sucks. This is assuming you're getting digital cable of course.

The satellite DVR packages on the other hand will save the MPEG stream directly to the hard disk, so you can view it later without loss of image quality.

This is all the more important if you're thinking about going with HDTV. DirecTV is about to come out with a HD-DVR made in conjunction with TiVO. DishNetwork's HD-DVR is already out [dishnetwork.com], but it will set you back a cool thousand.

If there was actually something worth watching on TV beside porn, I'd get the latter, if for no other reason than that DirecTV won't carry porn [dishnetwork.com], but seeing as how Murdoch has bought DirecTV from Hughes that's probably about to change.

The consensus on rec.video.satellite.dbs seems to be that weather really doesn't affect image quality (though this may not be true for HD content) but that airplanes, helicopters, birds and people falling off of your roof can and do. That said, it supposedly causes only minor artifacting (which you're going to get anyways given the aggressive compression the providers use... watch Star Trek: TNG on Spike TV sometime and watch the signal lose sync everytime somebody fires a phaser.)

Cable is great

[tcgwebs]

I use DVR with Time Warner Cable, which has always been just great for me. It has an 80GB HD and most features that you'd find in a Tivo.

DSL is not broadband?

[unigeek]

I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL),???

I thought DSL was broadband?

Directv beats cable

[eyegor]

I've had Directv for about 4 years and overall I'm very happy. Around here (Northern Virginia) our cable provider sucks and I don't have to give them a cent for providing their usually lousy service.

Directv signal is usually very good but I have had problems with loss of signal during severe thunderstorms and when snow covers the dish.

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with my satellite service.

DirectTivo

[solefald]

Get yourself DirecTV with Tivo built-in. I bought one nearly 2 years ago, added another hard drive and
truly enjoing it. Plus DirecTV is better then cable..... Thats my 2c...

It's a marketing hype (Cable)

[ScooterBill]

As long as your dish is secure and the transmission is working, you will have virtually no problems from weather. This is BS from the Cable companies.

I've never had a problem due to inclement weather although we don't get fierce lightning storms where I live so I don't know if that makes a difference.

I would choose the service based on the programming.

M

Tech TV

[JavaLord]

I have comcast, and they took Tech TV (ZDTV) out of their lineup about a year ago. If you like that channel, you better call and see if they have it. Since then, I've got 3 telemundos, 4 'womens' channels, the golf channel, etc. They don't even have tech tv on digital cable here either. I'm interested in seeing what other people post about this, because I would like to get tech tv again!

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[Algan]

A friend of mine has the Comcast DVR and they let him timeshift everything...

I hate losing my sat.

[scumdamn]

I have dish and I love the fact that they cost so much less than Time Warner cable in the Austin area. I recently moved into an apartment and unfortunately it faces the wrong way apparently and I can't get reception. I wish the dish could point somewhere other than southwest because then I'd be golden. And for about the same service dish costs half what cable does.

I like satellite

[Wakkow]

I'm a student living in an area with Comcast.. For the first two years we had Comcast because we're all used to having cable. It was okay, nothing special.. Eventually, I got fed up with Comcast not carrying some channels I wanted (Food Network and TechTV) and they kept inching the price up. I found DirecTV had a deal for three free months and a monthly fee less than that of cable.

Installation was a slight pain because we live in an apartment and couldn't mount the dish onto the building.. I bought a $25 tripod and a $3 piece of pipe (as the installer suggested, since it's cheaper than buying it from them). The reception is clear but you do notice some artifacts once in a while (similar to what a DivX looks like) in the picture due to the compression. The local channels are actually clearer than they were with cable and we get a lot more good channels. We've only lost the signal twice from two bad storms when our tripod literally tipped over. None of this "vanishing signal" like the cable commercials imply. Heck, we lost the cable signal at least once or twice a year during a bad storm. It doesn't degregate during storms, but we don't get snow, which I hear really kills the signal.

Overall, I'm glad we switched.. If you're happy with basic extended cable channels, I'd stick with comcast. If you want some of the extra channels, go satellite. I'm not sure which has NASAtv or if it's an add-on channel or something.. I see now that you can get a Tivo for cheap if you sign up for satellite and I think the Tivo monthly service fee is less also.

Go with Satellite

[Chaos1]

I've only had one outage in the year and half that I have had Dish Network, and that was only during a bad snow storm. I've heard other complaints about losing signal during rain, or cloudy days, but have not experienced them myself.

My parents have Comcast and it glitches out all the time, with the screen pulsating with lines across the screen. They've also had random outages for no apparent reason. Comcast just replaces the reciever hoping to fix the problem, but it never does. I've also been told by Comcast installers that most of the equipment they're using is refurb and they have troubles all the time.

DirecTV with TIVO is good

[CasaDelGato]

I've had DirecTV in the Seattle area for years. LOTS of rain and clouds. The only times I've lost signal is when the rain and clouds were so thick that it was dark at noon. Usually I had other problems occupying my attention at those times... :-\ I recently added a DirecTIVO (HDRV3) and added a 160GB drive to it. This makes a GREAT setup. Anytime I sit down, there is something that I WANT to see on. I do get NASA TV as well.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

DirecTV does carry porn -- and some of the channels are the same as Dish Network. They have Playboy, Spice, and three hardcore channels. From what I hear, Dish will show more (namely: anal), but DirecTV does carry porn (channels 594 - 598)

Get a larger dish for satellite TV

[RickyRay]

Weather doesn't necessarily cause problems for satellite channels. I paid a little extra to install oversized dishes (30" - 36"), and during the worst rain or snow my reception is always good.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[prell]

I had a Time Warner PVR when they were still testing them, and it worked out wonderfully, for me: I scheduled recordings; I could rewind live TV (and fast-forward up until the "live point"); I could pause for up to two hours or something (whatever the length of the "live cache" was); I could record two things at once, while playing something off the hard drive; I could record something, and watch something else, with full RW/FF/Pause capabilities.

Tivo!

[apoplectic]

I've got DirecTV with a DirecTivo that was provided in a package deal (Sony T60). It has been a wonderful combination. I have yet to be unhappy in any way, shape, or form. At the time, I got the DVR for $99 as I was a first time DirecTV subscriber. I would encourage you to get some similar deal. I had digital cable before and couldn't stand it after sampling DirecTV at a friends house. You will NOT be disappointed. Now, I understand that the HD Tivos will be coming out soon (the current Tivos do not support High Def)...you might want to wait until one of these hits the market (quite possibly combined with the rather new feature of being able to burn your shows to DVD). I'd guess this happens in the 2 to 6 month range, though I'm not sure how long (if ever) the combo HD/DVD/DirecTV units will be in coming.

DirecTV for me

[mbadolato]

About two years ago, I got extremly pissed off with Cox Digital Cable (Every day for an hour or so, all the premium movie channels would go black; they kept sending techs, no one could find a problem)

I switched to DirecTV and haven't looked back since. Now, granted I'm in Phoenix so weather isn't exactly a factor here. But, even with the monsoons in the summer, i've only lost picture about 1 or 2 times, and that was only for a short duration.

When I saw that Best Buy was selling a DirecTV receiver/Tivo unit for $99, I jumped on it. We had a Tivo already but this was one unit, smaller, bigger drive, two inputs, and dolby built it.

I couldn't be any happier, and i'm glad i went this route.

direcTV

[morelife]

If the sun is out, and the weather's beautiful, dish works beautifully. Under these conditions you probably won't be inside watching tv.

I switched to cable from direcTV. The rain, snow, wind, vibration, installation limitations due to authorized "line of sight", distant tree limbs, and plain bad luck, all caused bad, horrible or no reception. After a rainstorm, my signal would stay at 60% or less because of heavy cloud cover.

I switched to cable, all problems disappeared. Also I noticed the bandwidth on the audio portion was much improved quality and intensity. In retrospect I was not happy with direcTV at all. Couldn't imagine having an Internet connection on it.

DirecTV is good

[tekiegreg]

No I'm not a paid endoreser of them, nor do I wish to Spam, but in my experience, for $45/month for 150 channels (including NASA TV, all the basic channels but no premiums like HBO) amongst other wonderful channels with real content, I stay happy. Good value for my $ if you ask me.

Adelphia is the local cable company in my area, and while they have a promo rate of $19/month for 3 months I'm awfully suspicous of that rate after my 3 months are up and they are not willingly disclosing it. They seem kinda scummy to me.

Near as I can tell, weather conditions don't affect Satellites much either. My Satellite was doing just fine in big rainstorms here (I was a bit nervous about turning on my equipment in a big thunderstorm here not too long ago tho so I can't vouch for thunderstorms). My Dad who lives up in the mountains and has had many snowstorms has never complained about any issues with his Satellites (tho in all Fairness he's a DISH subscriber).

DVR? Can't help you there, people have been telling me to get one but they're appeal to me is limited.

Internet access? I've been told it's ok if not quite a bit laggy, but no firsthand experience myself either. For my high speed Internet I use DSL quite happily (again avoiding Adelphia like the plaque).

In short Satellite I think is a good value for the $. However your experiences may vary.

Satellite all the way

[slpalmer]

My personal experiance on this (DirecTV Subscriber 7 years, Time Warner Analog and Digital for 5 years) is that Digital Satellite beats Digital Cable hands down.

Everything that the cable companies say (with the exception of the dog sneezing) may be true, but it's exaggerated to the point of borderline lies.

If your dish is aimed to achieve a signal in the "85%" range, which is quite easy to do, you won't have much of any problem with rain or weather fades. With mine, a 90% signal, I was able to watch TV reliable during a tropical storm in Houston. The few times I have lost signal, it was back up within minutes.

With Digital Cable, I discover that I lose signal anytime they're working on a line, construction hits a cable, flooding at their office, you name it. *At Least* a full day outage every month or two.

As for channels, Who has what depends on what day of the week it is. I believe NASA TV is carried by DirecTV. I'm not sure about Comcast, as they don't sell in my area.

Cable touts how owning your own equipment is bad. This reminds me of the old AT&T / BellSouth argument that they should own the phones and lease them to you. Guess what, Cable companies aren't supplying that digital converter for free. It costs more to rent that box than the extra that local channels cost on Satellite.

As for DVR, the DVR's supplied by either cable or satellite companies are low end models. If they fit your needs, go for it. If you want the latest and greatest, buy or build your own.

I say DirectTV is the way to go.

Re:It's a marketing hype (Cable)

[Wall,_The]

I agree that the signal "problems" are marketing bull from cable companies. I've lived in places where there was snowing for 5 months out of the year. And raining the rest. Never had any problems. The dish doesn't even collect snow like old C-Band dishes did. Check who offers what channels and at what price. For me, the Sat wins every time!

ahhh, the joys of renting...

[garcia]

In some apartments (in what I feel is a violation of FCC rules but what the FCC feels isn't) they require that you place large amounts of money down on a "deposit" just to put the dish on the porch (regardless of the fact that it might be free standing).

See here [condolawyers.com] for a quick link I found. Note: (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use, or

Forcing me to pay $350 deposit (of which only $75 is refunded at the END of your renting) seems to push the FREE installation costs over "reasonable".

So, Comcast is prewired into the building and I have no choice but to use the good 'ol rabbit ears.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[PD]

The PVR that comes with a service is not an advantage for either. The reason being that you REALLY want to get a TiVo. Everything sucks in comparison (mileage may vary).

TiVo will work with either your satellite or cable, without any trouble. As far as the other issues, I've had both DirectTV and Dish Network (currently have Dish). You will lose the signal when it rains hard. I live in Texas, the land of flash floods, and the most I've lost my signal for is an hour. More typical is 3-4 minutes. It takes a hell of a storm to block the signal for longer than that.

Birds, airplanes, people, etc. will not block the signal. Anyone who claims that they will is on crack.

Dish Network

[btgarner]

I have been a Dish Network customer for over 6 years, and prefer it over cable. I have an 80 Gb PVR with my system, and get 180 channels for under $45/month. The signal used to go out (but only during HEAVY rain) with the older systems, but since I upgraded to their 500 network, I cannot recall a single outage.

The only drawback with the DSS systems is that local channels may not be available (or if they are available, will run you an extra $5 per month)

From what I have seen, the DSS and cable companies offerings are pretty much equal. it really will boil down to what channels you want, at what price each service offers that selection, and then the service of those companies. Dish had soem serious growing pains a few years ago, but they seem to mostly be over them (or I have just gotten used to them).

My local cable company (TWC - who provides my internet access at home) has a terrible track record for billing issues, and if DSL were available where I live, I would dump TWC in a heardbeat soi that I don't give them any more money.

Been a suscriber for a few years

[Str8Dog]

I don't know much about digital cable but I can tell you a few things about DirecTV having been a subscriber for several years. I live in the Seattle area and it rains here a lot. We have never had a problem with rain fade. The only time my signal drops to a unwatchable level, it is due to someone bumping it on the way up the stairs (dish is in a bad location and easy to bump if you are carting stuff up the stairs.).

The down side is the year long contact you must agree to for service. If you want to cancel early they charge your something like $12/month left on the contact. There is a $5/month charge for equipment per room. And finally DirecTV has had great problems getting me a bill in the mail each month. I don't really know why, but I had to start paying my bills online just to make sure they didn't try to ding me for late fees.

Finally, I would like to point out DirecTV's private war on piracy. You might want to check out sites like Freedom Fight [freedomfight.ca] and make sure you morally agree with DirecTV's methods of (IMHO) extortion.

Having had both...

[danuary]

Used to live in a house where I had Dish Network. It was fine, carried NASA-TV, etc. EXPENSIVE though - my bill for 'most everything was more than $100/mo. It would rarely go out -- usually not -during- storms, but just before -- anywhere from 30 sec to 30 min. It'd have to be a pretty good sized storm coming in, though. Moved to the city and now I have Time Warner Cable. It's cheaper (about $80) for everything, AND YOU CAN GET A DIGITAL CABLE BOX WITH A BUILT-IN DVR. Very very useful. Works in all respects similar to TiVo except for the automatic taping of things it thinks you'd be interested in. There's an additional $6/mo charge to use it... That being said, channel choices are not as good - no NASA TV. All in all, I'm impressed with TW. Their customer service is pretty good, the installer was plesant and on-time when the service was set up, and in six months of service (knock wood), I've not had a single outage on my cablemodem or TV service. Cablemodem is FAST too - 3mbps down, 384kbps up.

Just a data point

[kvigor]

I've had satellite service for about five years. I get one or two outages a year due to heavy snowfall. These are easily resolved with the high-tech dish-snow-removal tool (the Mk.I broom duct-taped to a pipe). No other weather-related outages ever.

Judging from neighbourhood heresay, this is orders of magnitude more reliable than Comcast's cable service (I'm in Salt Lake City).

DirecTV w/ TiVo advantage

[jea6]

One BIG advantage that DirecTV w/TiVo has is the ability to record two shows at once.

Can the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder with TiVo record two shows at once?

Yes, the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder can record two shows at once. In fact, it can even record two shows while you watch a third, previously recorded show. To take full advantage of this feature, you'll need to ensure that two (2) satellite inputs from a dual-LNB Direct TV System dish antenna are connected to the Direct TV Digital Satellite Recorder.

http://www.free-satellitetv.net/direct%20tv_tivo_F AQ.htm [free-satellitetv.net]

Can't do this with regular TiVo.

Mr. Pot? There's a Mr. Kettle on line 2.

[jafo]

Comcast is running commercials about how easy it is to lose a satellite connection? I find that amusing because I just canceled my cablemodem net service because I was fed up with all the outages on it. We didn't have cable TV, so maybe that was never impacted when we had the problems, but I never found Comcast to be overly concerned about uptime.

When we first got the cablemodem it was great. That was when it was Excite@Home. The first year we had no outages at all, it was rock solid. Then after AT&T bought it out, it was still ok, but IIRC we had an outage or two during the next year. The last 8 months of Comcast has just been horrible though.

Anyway, I know you're not looking for cablemodem information. It's just that I choked on my lunch when I saw the thing about Comcast saying the satellite systems suffered from severe outages.

The people I know with satellite don't complain about having problems, and haven't switched to other technology over the the years they've had them, so I'm wondering if it's really anywhere near that bad.

Sean

DirecTV and such

[pinchhazard]

I've had DirecTV for years and it's great. I live out in the sticks in Washington State and the signal is great; it will get glitchy maybe twice a year during heavy storms. Also occasionally a bush or tree will grow in the dish's line of sight to the sky and has to be trimmed.

I personally don't care for most dish systems (like DISH-on-Demand or whatever) and I really dislike digital cable. Some relatives in the city got digital cable and they seemed to like it, but every time I go over there it seems to be giving a poor signal, or the box takes forever to respond to the remote.

I'd propose a 10-second test. If you can test drive your cable and satellite options at a store or friend's houses, push the "Info" button to try and retrieve program information (synopsis, review, rating information, cast, etc.) In my experience, good quality systems, whether dish or cable, will return the information under 10 seconds. Crappy systems will take 20, 30, 60 seconds, or will just hang and never return. Good luck!

Dish network reception...

[kary4th]

After moving a few years ago, a "professional" Dish installer put up a new dish for me. I would lose signal in heavy rain. This had never happened to me before. I corrected the problem by A) adjusting the dish, so that it actually pointed at the satellites (One satellite dish - two satellites. It's a good thing), and B) replacing some corroded connectors. Never had a problem since (even in Rochester, NY snowstorms). And yeah - NASA is channel 213.

DTV-Replay TV

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had comcast in the past, what they don't want you to hear is the truth.....

DTV is only out when we have *very* heavy snow or rain...wind dosen't seem to effect anyting for me. (In the Detroit Area)

While on comcast I experenced outages monthly that lasted at least a day, and several that where hour long stints. I have to say that DTV (aside from being corporate bastards) has been a hell of alot more reliable than cable has ever been for me.

The DVR really helps too....just incase of a big snow storm..heh.

That's just my two cents.....

Re:I like satellite

[Schnapple]

The reception is clear but you do notice some artifacts once in a while (similar to what a DivX looks like) in the picture due to the compression

Digital Cable also has this problem, in my experience with it.

Dish Network and Replay

[nate_drake]

We've got Dish Network, and in the 1.5 years we've had it, I can't remember ever seeing a bad picture due to the weather. We also have a Replay 5080, and they play nice together. Only bad part is that the Dish box we have can't be controlled via serial cable. We have to use the IR blaster. It's never missed a channel change though, so it isn't a big deal. The picture looks fine to me, but I'm not that picky.

They should try...

[Pii]

...to align their dish correctly.

Yes, the installation monkey aligned the dish in such a way that they had a signal on the day he came and went. That's just so they would sign the form, saying that it was correctly installed.

Have them align it correctly, or get someone else to do it for them. A couple of degrees off in either axis (Or worse, both axis) can make all the difference in the world.

When my DirecTV dish was first installed, I had transponder strengths in the mid-60s. When I realigned the dish myself, most of my transponders are now in the high 80s - low 90s.

I haven't had an outage since. Rain-fade almost never occurs with a properly aligned dish.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[nate1138]

DishNetwork's HD-DVR is already out, but it will set you back a cool thousand.

No it won't. When I signed up with Dish Network, they installed the dish, 2 normal receivers, and a DishPVR for 99 bucks. As far as how it compares to Tivo? I tried a Tivo, and the delay when switching channels really pissed me off. The DishPVR has no such delay. All in all, I've had no problems out of it, technical or otherwise. And to answer one of the other questions, that BS about the satellite being unreliable is absolute bullshit. My cable modem stops working before my sat goes out.

Cable is *not* great

[Pieroxy]

I have comcast at home and to be honest, the quality really sucks. It is like a regular TV with an average reception. every now and then you will loose either picture or sound or even both. Last time it lasted a few minutes but the time before that, it lasted two full days: We lost half of our channels. The decoder sucks ass as far as features and usability are concerned. It heats up a lot and freezes from time to time so you have to reboot it. Not too annoying unless you're not at home and are recording (PVR, VCR, etc...).

I really expected a lot more from "digital cable".

I don't know about the satellite though.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[Gamgeek+]

A further advantage of DirecTV is that if you have Tivo (DirecTivo actually) you can stream TWO channels to the Tivo's drive while either watching one of them or a third show from the drive. This is an outstanding feature. And to chime in on the weather issue - I live in snowy PA and have practically no issues. Just mount the dish so it doesn't get burried in snow and you'll be fine...

Re:DirecTV w/ TiVo advantage

[EricWright]

However, you can do this with my Time/Warner PVR. In my area, Time/Warner doles out Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 PVRs to thier customers ($6/mo more than a digital cable box). It has 2 tuners built into the box, so it only requires a single cable connection. This also means you can do PiP on a TV that doesn't normally have that capability!

correction

[smackjer]

TiVo will work, but to my knowledge, you need one specifically for satellite (i.e., standard store bought one for cable won't work).

This isn't true. A standalone Tivo will work anywhere - cable, sattelite, antenna, whatever else somebody can come up with. I personally have used my series 1 Tivo with both analog cable and Dish sattelite with zero compatibility problems with either.

Re:Satellite all the way

[kiwimate]

I'll put it this way: my cable modem has had more downtime than my satellite TV over the last two years, and every time I've checked, the cable TV feed has also been messed up whenever the cable modem has had trouble.

Based on my experience with Comcast, this makes almost perfect sense. They have horrible service, and are frequently down.

(Side-note: I have to laugh -- well, grimace, really -- at their local ads against the satellite crowd. They show a guy who contends he used to sell satellite TV, so he tried to install it himself and had no end of problems. Cue the shot of an installation literally held together by sticky tape. No kidding -- the chap's a salesman, he tries to install something himself on the cheap, can't even be bothered to use a screwdriver, and wonders why it keeps going out. Hell's bells.)

About a year ago they used to advertise their cable modem service as having an advantage over dial-up of no dropped connections. I e-mailed them and pointed out that, when I was on-line and their service went down (which occurred two or three times a week on average), it sure as hell looked like a dropped connection to me. I'm sure they ignored me, but funnily enough they don't make that claim any more.

The only caveat I have on the parent poster's comment is that our cable TV doesn't always go out when the cable modem is out (but it's probably 95% of the time).

Hideously expensive compared to satellite, anecdotally worse, not better, reliability, and Comcast the ISP caps your bandwidth and refuses to tell you how much you're using and how much you're allowed to use -- just that you're using too much. Yeah, what's not to loathe about Comcast?

Comcast versus DirecTV

[Kr3m3Puff]

I in a Comcast area (suburban Illinois) and have been through almost every configuration they have both regular and digital. I had DirecTV and Dish Network back in Phonenix, but now I just moved back to DirecTV.

My biggest desire to move back to DirecTV was HDTV. I feel that DirecTV in the long term will provide better HD options that local cable. Couple that with almost every HD DirecTV receiver able to tune to HD over-air broadcasts and provide local channels via Satellite or over-air, there is little that cable can possibly offer over DirecTV.

I did lots of studying. The most annoying thing is that Comcast doesn't even want to begin to provide you details about when they will offer HDTV in my area, though they advertise it on TV.

As far as reception. I was a bit concerned about the "we loose our signal all the time" and all I can say, mounted on my roof, I get strong signal all the time, even in the snow. I know that heavy weather (it is the water) can distort the signal and you have to be careful if your dish builds up snow, but if that does become an issue, there are several workarounds including sprays, covers and other items that make sure your LNB doesn't get "watered" down.

I totally hated the Digital Cable. They over compress the channels and the receivers were about as slow as molassass.

My DirecTV install experience was excellent, a lot better than my cable, where they didn't even know what they were doing. I expected to have to educate the DirecTV guy (since I have quite an extensive custom built whole house distribution system) but he didn't have a problem and did a very professional clean install. The cable guy just did his thing but the DirecTV guy asked permission before doing any physical changes.

I am VERY happy with the programming selection on DirecTV versus Comcast. They just are damn good at what they do. Calling them recently about getting CBS-HD for the superbowl was super easy and very friendly. Lot better than calling my local cable franchise.

Well, there are my two cents...

DirecTV over Comcast

[illuminata]

Comcast tells you that they provide digital cable, but all of your basic and extended basic channels (up to the 100s) are still analog. As far as weather goes, Comcast still goes out when a storm rolls over their local property. DirecTV did go out a little bit more often when heavy precipitation occurs, but it's nowhere near ss bad as the cable ads put on.

Comcast also gives me ads on their slow, oversized program guide (provided by TV Guide). When I get program info or use a full-screen menu, they greet me with two. You can even select them with your remote to get more info! Whoopee! They also transmit slowly. At least people who don't purchase any digital packages don't have to put up with them.

As far as picture quality goes, DirecTV still wins. Comcast's signal strength is a problem in my area. They have to work on the area lines about once every three months, and you're generally at their mercy for anywhere from a few hours to a few days. In fact, the analog stations often look better than the digital ones, and sometimes certain digital channels won't be able to find a signal at all. My place had the coaxial cabling rewired throughout when I first moved in, too. There are a lot of blurry edges around objects, much like you'd see with a poorly compressed MPEG. DirecTV's picture is better, although there is about a half second's delay in transmission compared to cable.

Last but not least, Comcast charges more for less. The channels are worse and the packages are grouped so that there's a little bit of everything in each one, rather than grouping them by genre (except for the movie channels). We don't even get basics like the Travel Channel yet. They just now gave us E! and FoodTV.

The only reason that I can see for going with Comcast is to receive local channels in better quality (although DirecTV is picking up the slack in that area). If that isn't a huge sticking point, go with DirecTV.

Get Direct TV, here's why

[Teahouse]

I have had Direct TV for 4 years now. I have NEVER had a problem with reception, whether it's in high winds or in torrential rains. Sounds like your cable company is selling FUD.

The next reason is simple, you get more options. If you like the NFL, you can only get NFL SUnday TIcket through Direct TV. It's really nice being able to bring up any game I want on Sunday. Further, with TIVO, I can record my favorite teams games for the entire season! They also do March Madness, Basebal, and Hockey int he same manner. The Sports pay program is awesome.

Finally, Direct TV will be bringing you more HDTV stations faster. They are committed to HDTV, and although the programming is now pretty slim, they are digital ready to broadcast all HDTV stations when the time comes.

My recommendation, get Direct TV with the Tivo box and buy an inexpensive HDTV. That package will set you up for the next decade. It's that good. Enjoy!

Cable, satellite & the Super Bowl - an answer?

[djeaux]

Last night, I had to videotape the Super Bowl for my in-laws, because I have cable TV & they have DishTV satellite. Turns out that DishTV can't carry CBS in our area, because a broadcast station won't let them. The broadcast station is on my cable, hence my VCR got a workout.

Before going to a satellite, be certain that you either have an antenna capable of getting local broadcast channels or that your satellite provider will carry the local content you want.

That said, anybody who's posted here that your best option is to quit watching TV altogether is probably right.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[jedidiah]

This is utter horsecrap.

To the Tivo, the Satellite receiver is just another cable box. You hook them together the same way that you would a box from Cox or Warner. The Tivo tunes into channel 4 (or whatever) just like your TV would.

My series one Tivo is recording off of Dish Network as we speak.

Re:Having had both...

[IANAAC]

I've got Dish Network in the SF bay area and I pay just over 100 a month. But that 100 a month gets me WAY more than I ever got with TCI/ATT/Comcast/whatever the company is this month. For the money I pay, I get the 150 channels, 5 HBOs, 5 Showtimes, 9 Encores and other movie channels I never seem to watch. But the kicker for me was the ability to get overseas programming. I get Italian, Spanish and French on their "a la carte" plan, meaning each channel is 5 bucks more a month. As far as I know, no cable company inthe US offers European programming. In the bay area at least, the best you can do is the one multinational channel plus the three or four Spanish (US-based) channels.

I agree. "none of the above" is best option

[joggle]

The story poster even mentioned desiring to watch NASA TV. Guess what? They broadcast on the web as well! The quality isn't the same as broadcast TV, but most of the time the audio is fine and you can get more detailed photos from their website.

If you're unwilling to let go of your TV, then a nice substitution I've found for cable is Netflix. Let's face it. Out of 100+ channels, how often is nothing good on anyway? At least with a DVD subscription you can watch exactly what you want to watch whenever you have time to do so. It also can limit how much TV you watch during the week (which is a GOOD thing :).

Re:Having had both...

[kriston]

TWC in Queens (New York City for you non-Merkins is still a hybrid digital/analog system. The channels you get on the analog "tier" are still analog when you subscribe to the digital service. The "extra" channels in the digital service are digital and there is some duplication of premium channels in the digital side of things. Where I live, in Fairfax, VA, the cable systems have gone 100% digital. One night all the analog boxes were turned off and the cable company parked a customer-service van at the entrance of our subdivision to swap-in digital cable boxes.

Kris

South

[wurp]

The reason all satellite tv requires the dish to point south is that the only way to get a geostationary orbit is over the equator.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[M. Silver]

You will lose the signal when it rains hard. I live in Texas, the land of flash floods, and the most I've lost my signal for is an hour.

We used to lose the signal for a couple of hours at a time... in Kansas, so I imagine we're pointing at the same sat. (We might still do so, if we were actually using the service.)

We have the standard size dish, though (18"?). A friend bought the next size up (24"?), and never lost signal.

Re:Cable has one advantage

[kb1cvh]

For digital cable, another cable box would be required, not just a cable splitter.

I still use Cable modem as it's the closest thing to getting a fixed ip address, routable, without paying for Business class DSL. I'm not running a business.

We just got Direct TV with Tivo. Can record two programs while watching a 3rd simulataneously.
The Hughs HDVR2 we have also has a 120GB hard drive. A good website on Tivo is http://www.tivocommunity.com

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[TGK]

Disclaimer: I presently draw a paycheck from Echosphere, parent company of Echostar, parent company of Dish Network.

I'll lay this down for you all. There are definite advantages to both Satellite and Cable. The experience you have with either service will differ depending on what you choose as far as your service contract goes.

First, though, a few myths to dispel or clarify as the case may be.

Weather Related Signal Loss: Signal Strength is generally rated on a 125 point scale with Dish Network (100 points with DirecTV if memory serves). During a heavy rain storm you should expect to see a signal loss of about 20 points. At about 50 points of total signal you'll see pixilation occurring due to the MPEG2 compression. At 40 points you'll loose signal altogether unless it's a massively redundant broadcast. Your typical install with four receivers will get you 98 - 120 signal on each receiver.

During snow you will experience signal loss, especially if your dish is at a higher angle of elevation. This is because snow will collect on the reflecting surface, blocking the signal.

Hidden Charges There is no such thing as a hidden charge.... provided you read the contract. I'm familiar with Dish's contracts and they're written in fairly tame legal speak, if I can understand it you can to. Yes, you will be charged for additional receivers. Yes, the equipment is up to you to maintain after the first year unless you arrange otherwise. Yes your installation is probably not under warranty beyond 90 days. Dish offers a number of fairly good warranty plans including the Digital Home Advantage plan, which for the most part covers all of your equipment and charges nominal fees for things like restringing all the cable in your house in the event of a catastrophic failure of some kind. I'm sure DirecTV has a similar offer; I don't know what it is.

HD TV - If you must have HD and you've already set with the equipment your best bet is going to be Voom [voom.com]. If you're still looking into getting the equipment, Dish runs a close 2nd with the 811 (standard HD receiver) being a pretty standard part of most installs (at customer request). Dish also offers a promotion called HD In a Box, wherein you get an 811 plus a 34 or 40 inch HD set to go with it for about $999.

Now, as far as drawback to satellite v cable go, it breaks like this.

Cable
-- Bigger rate increases
-- Crappy customer service (getting better)
-- Higher rates overall

Satellite
-- Equipment is your problem for the most part
-- Local channels are extra (5.99 typically) and may not be offered in your area
-- Extra charges per additional receiver.

And finally, a tidbit of wisdom for those of you considering signing up for a satellite dish right now. The Dish Network DVR 522 is offered as part of Digital Home Advantage. Presently it allows DVR service in two rooms more or less for the price of one room. Future software will allow you to use this receiver as a dual tuner DVR in one location if you so choose (and it will toggle between the two). That feature isn't ready yet, so it's not being advertised... but when we see it it's gonna be sweet!

Real world experience from the rain soaked NW

[Tjp($)pjT]

I had horrible experience with cable back when DirecTV was starting up. I had the cable de-installed and the service man said "Well there are two choices for cable here, OURS or YOURS." I took the DirecTV boxes out of my car at that point and said "I'll take mine."

I wouldn't ever go back to cable. I now have multiple DirecTiVos. The integrated receiver/TiVo is better in that it has two tuners so watch one, record two more at the same time is possible. Unlike the standalone, however, you can't record local off-the-air, or video in. It is generally cheaper than standalones as well, and the subscription may be moot depending on what channel package you order.

TiVo is very hacker friendly (network options and upgrade disk capacity cheap and easy, and web access, etc.). DirecTv enables all the DirecTiVos from one master subscription. I originally choose lifetime, they've since made TiVo service free with most of the "packaged" services.

Now as to weather. We get some severe weather in the Puget Sound convergence zone. I get maybe 2-3 minutes of bad (LOS) rain fade a month for the six rainest months. The signal on the spot-beam (local channels) has never disapperaed. I get occasional macro-block errors (looks like bad pixelation on part of the image) another 4-5 minutes a month. I could correct all these problems by going to a 1 meter dish now that the Channel Master "Gain Master" antenna is around. I didn't want to go bigger earlier because previous 1 meter dishes mounted a single LNB assembly (still dual channel, just points at one sat.). The Gain Master supports all the satellites. It should eliminate all the rain fade issues. I should also point out we are in a non-optimal position as a ridge with trees and houses blocks a portion of the sky where the sat. is. Cable is just not truthful. I have less outages now than anytime I've ever had cable and I am in a very poor site as far as the satellites are concerned.

The last point is that regardless of cable or sat. you will lose signal twice a year for a few minutes a day for 1-3 days as the sun is directly behind the sat you are pointed at. For cable this is spread over a wider range as they point at multiple sats. DirecTv hosts the majority of their programming on a single "slot" at 101.5 degrees. However HDTV (and some other local and foriegn language programming) has program content at 110 degrees and NASA Select (and some foriegn language content) sits at 119 degrees. So to get NASA you'll need multiple LNB assemblies, but it is still one dish (although if you wanted the maximum signal strength with reasonable install and cost, you could point a 1 meter dish at each sat. If you are in a real fring area, like Alaska, there are 2 meter, 3 meter and larger dishes, or you can fixed mounth a C band bigger dish and mount the LNB to it. Hope this helps.

Re:Directv beats cable, let me count the ways...

[javaxman]

Much of this has already been covered, and it looks like the clear answer from Slashdot is already "DirecTV beats Comcast Cable in every way", but since I have DirecTV ( have had it for years ) and my neighbor has Comcast digital cable, I think I can answer that DirecTV clearly wins on many points when compared to Comcast digital :

1) Downtime much less than cable. Seriously. Although rain fade does happen, it's never for more than a couple of minutes even in the *most* severe of storms. It's a matter of *extreme* downpours causing some signal loss, not a matter of it going out constantly. Not a problem, really. A well-pointed dish and clear horizon help, too, but my dish is pointed right at a tree, gets 80% signal at best, and it's still almost never a problem. The cable companies lie, of course. When Comcast's cable goes out ( it definitely does happen ) it's for hours and hours at a time, not minutes.

2) DirecTV has a _great_ program guide and lots of cool features built into even their most basic set-top boxes, *especially* when compared to Comcast.

Comcast's program guide is hard to read, and worst of all, has HUGE advertisements that take up half the screen or more!! It's barely usable. It's just a channel with a scrolling loop. DirecTV's is actually an interactive program guide which is layered on top of whatever channel you're watching, it has _days_ of programming. See if you can find someone who has it and try it out- you won't need a TV guide ever again.

3) DirecTivo is the best! Cable Tivos can't even tune two channels at once, and don't integrate with the cable set-top at all. DirecTV also offers their Tivos cheaply - you can get a complete multi-room system *with* installation and upgrade one room to Tivo for $99 bucks. Compare to $200+ for other Tivos. Also, probably since the program guide comes from DirecTV, the Tivo subscription is only $4.99, not the normal $12.99.

4) More channels, more flexible channel packages, actually cheaper than cable in every configuration as well. If you're a sports fan ( I'm not ), DirecTV is where it's at, you may never leave the house again.

5) Local channels are better quality. Maybe a small point, but someone who has cable recently pointed this out to me. I think it's because DirecTV charges $4.99 to give you locals and can sell them out-of-market ( I live in CA but could in theory get NY channels if I wanted to pay for them ). Cable _has_ to carry the locals by law and can't charge for them, so put the minimum of effort into doing so- they stick up an antenna wherever is convenient and give you that signal, which may well be worse than what you'd get on your own.

Seriously, if you find someone who has DirecTV, especialy with Tivo, spend 15 minutes or so having them demo it for you, compare it to someone else who has Comcast digital cable, and you'll understand why the vast majority of posts here are singing the praises of DirecTV. I hate them for their evil smartcard lawsuit ways, but they're easily the best pay TV service around, and I'd rather be their customer and send them letters telling them how bad a mistake their legal guys are making on that front than pay a cable company who's even worse to their customers. It's much like picking a political candidate to vote for... and DirecTV is clearly the lesser of the evils.

Almost forgot- this varies greatly by area of course, but Comcast only recently went digital in my area. On all fronts tech, HDTV rollout, everything, DirecTV has been way ahead of them. I'm sure there are more ways DirecTV is better than Comcast, and there _might_ be a better cable service than DirecTV, but I haven't heard of it.

Re:Cable is *not* great

[Dielectric]

I expected more, too, but got the same results. I'm returning their crappy space heater "receiver" and have dropped the digital cable altogether. Back to extended basic/analog for me. It worked for crap with my TiVo because I had to use the IR link, which was slow and missed changes even when I built the little tin foil shield tent.

The reciever heated up so much, I used to have problems with my DVD player. The quality on the HBO stations, way up in digital land, was atrocious. I've seen fewer compression artifacts in bad pr0n scans on USENET (and believe me, I've seen a lot of 'em). When I'm paying extra for those premium stations, I expect better, which is exactly what I told the customer service rep. They said that digital cable is a great value and that they were sorry I was unhappy with the service.

Screw Comcast and their awful digital cable. I'm going to make shadow puppets.

With DirecTV, you can always get a bigger dish

[theycallmeB]

I don't know how easy they are to find, but there are 3rd-party options (OR at least were) for replacing your stock DirecTV dish with a larger diameter unit (4+ feet in diameter). This would only be needed if you really want to watch TV no matter what the weather is like. My experience is that very heavy rain to blot out the signal. In fact, it performed very well through one of the worst snow storms in recent history in my home state of Oregon, or at least it did until the power went out.

I also remember there being radio transparent plastic domes available to protect ground mounted dishes from the wind. So were even made to look like a big rock to conceal the dish for the landscaping gurus.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[ckd]

he PVR that comes with a service is not an advantage for either. The reason being that you REALLY want to get a TiVo. Everything sucks in comparison (mileage may vary).

The DirecTV DVR is a TiVo (ok, now it's "powered by TiVo"). It also has two satellite tuners so you can record two shows at once (and even watch a third, previously recorded, show). It also records the digital stream directly, so no recompression to worry about.

As for rain fade, install it well (or get a good pro install) and you will rarely if ever have a problem IME. The stronger your signal is on a clear day, the more margin you will have when it rains. (Also, make sure the dish is well secured and/or shielded from strong winds if you have 'em.) From Boston, we only get rain fade once or twice a year at most, and no snow fade (the dish surface is vertical enough that it slides right off).

How to Not Lose Signal

[deathcow]

Buy a bigger dish. Here in Alaska, 18" dishes wont even work. Minimal size is 30". Personally, we ended up with a 1.2 meter dish which is more immune to weather. (Our Dish network transponders vary from 60-80 in strength, with 125 on the spotbeam.) My friend went for the gold and bought a 2 meter dish. ChannelMaster makes all of these dishes for consumers to buy.

Also, not sure how long your cable to your dish is? Buy some Belden 1694A cable, low loss serial digital interconnect RG6, and have it terminated with Canare F connectors on both ends. Doesnt make much difference for signals under 1 ghz, but can make a huge difference for higher signals depending on your existing cabling. I've ran my Dish on 350 feet of this cable with only a few points of signal loss on the highest frequencies coming from the LNB. (Check www.bluejeancable.com for a pre-made source of these cables. Or www.haveinc.com if you want to build it all yourself.)

Re:Cable is great

[Zathrus]

and most features that you'd find in a Tivo.

I presume that you've never owned a TiVo before then.

I'll admit -- I've never owned the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 DVR (which is what the Comcast and TW boxes actually are), but there's a couple [davehitt.com] of good pages [pvrcompare.com] to read about the differences and just how feature poor the cable PVRs are.

Want a quick summary? Very poor searching, amazingly poor recording management, poor conflict resolution, barely adequate playback controls, and crappy live tv support. Oh, and it's less stable to boot.

The only upside is that the hardware is usually free and has a low monthly cost. That's great, except that Dish has a free PVR as well, and DirecTV with TiVo is only $99. Both have a monthly fee, but it's pretty much the same as the cable ones (and with DirecTV it's waived w/ the top of the line package). Oh, and that fee is once per household, not once per unit -- at least for sat.

And, of course, the signal quality is better over sat than it is from cable -- particularly for the analog channels (usually anything under 100, sometimes anything under 80, depends on your cable carrier).

Personally, I switched from my cable company (Charter) to DirecTV last October. My picture quality went up, I added about a dozen channels, and my monthly charge went down. Even with the forthcoming DirecTV price increases (all of $3 for me -- I can't think of a cable hike that was that little) I'll be paying less for more. Oh, and unlike cable, my TV doesn't go out randomly or with any really severe storm.

Re:RCA + Lightning = No TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Those "Professional" installers are contractors who are getting paid by the job, paid again to come back out if there's a problem, and rarely quality checked. I wouldn't discount the loose dish possibility quite that quickly. That's the #1 thing they have to go back out and fix, but nobody seems to care. (I recently wrote the equipment tracking software for one such contractor...) Fortunately, you can often fix the problem by simply going out and tightening the bolts holding the dish to the mast, and the mast to the mount. (If you've got a tall mast, they may not have buried your guy wires properly, which is harder to fix.) Or, call and complain and a technician will come out to tell you everything looks fine to him. He may or may not tighten the bolts for you while he's there. I'd be horrified at the lack of quality at that place if it wasn't pretty much the same standard as every other business I've consulted for.

DirecTV with TiVo (DirecTiVo)

[DaveJay]

I have DirecTV with TiVo (commonly called DirecTiVo), the dual-tuner box.

I'm not a big fan of Rupert Murdoch, and he's either in the process of purchasing, or has already completed his purchase of, DirecTV. That said:

1. I've had years of mostly trouble-free service. No (zero) outages due to rain or wind. Since I'm in southern california, I can speak to windy days and days-long rain deluges, but I can't speak to snow. YMMV.

2. The problems I have experienced have been with the TiVo unit, but those problems have been so rare and so easily fixed (usually without calling tech support; I just go to AVSforums and check out their DirecTiVo forum for advice) that I can't say it's been anything but a delight.

3. Once upon a time, I worked for a cable company. Having been on the "other side", I can honestly tell you that I avoid cable like the plague unless there's a compelling reason not to. There's always the possibility that the same kind of shenannigans go on at the satellite providers, but it's kind of like KNOWING someone spits in your food at a specific restaurant, vs. merely suspecting it at another -- you're gonna stop going to the first restaurant, even though you might or might not keep going to the second.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[poptix_work]

Hey moron, my tivo *is* my IRD (satellite receiver) so it has all the menus/guides built in, and there is no seperate charges for the tivo service (I have a premiere account).

The philips DSR704 is $99 at best buy, comes with a 40G drive. I upgraded it to a capacity of 320GB and it's the greatest thing on earth. =)

Mount your dish well

[HaverOfPeculiarBox]

Ther biggest problem you'll face with weather-related signal loss has to do with a dish that isn't solidly mounted. It takes a whole lot of snow, rain, or clouds to obscure the signal. The more common cause of signal loss is a dish that gets blown off its pointing angle, or one that wobbles in the wind. You can be as creative as you want with mounting (mine is tethered to the side of my brick chimney with two nylon ratcheting tie-down straps.) Just give it a firm shake with your hand (stfu) and make sure it's not going to wobble in a strong wind.

As far as satellite vs. cable, satellite all the way. It's better service, better technology, and you'll be dealing with a far less scummy company.

Re:emergency backup

[Radius9]

He said he has the backup because he has a cable modem. If you have a cable modem, you'll still get analog cable if its offered in your area, regardless of what the cable company may tell you.

What about FREE TO AIR satellite??!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I cancelled my ExpressVu almost a year ago because they kept raising the minimum package price and had just added a 2.99 "system access fee" (read stealth inflation) to my bill and that was it. One option was to go antenna, I have one but I only get 5 stations (CBC, GlobalTV[like fox], CTV[like CBS], TVO[like PBS], and CKNX[WB/UPN content, a local independent]. Most of what I like is on FOX and Global didn't come in very good for me, so I had to look at something else, so....

I had been experimenting with Free-To-Air satellite TV for a while before that and decided to go ahead and take the plunge. See www.lyngsat.com for more information but here is the gist:

FREE SATELLITE TV!
Get a DVB PCI card for your computer and make it into a tivo AND don't pay for TV. On Ku band with a motorized 90cm dish you can get: ABC (1 affiliate), NBC (1 affiliate+net feeds), FOX (3 affiliates), WB (2 affiliates), UPN (4 affiliates), PAX (5+ affiliates but PAX sux), a few news channels (Fox News, MSNBC, Bloomberg and a few others), NASA TV, and tonnes of news/network feeds, foreign channels, religious channels, etc. But suffice it to say you can still watch the Simpsons and other staple geek television. Upfront cost about $350 for a 90cm dish, receiver, and motor. Substitute receiver for a similarly priced PCI DVB card (make sure Diseqc 1.2 support to move the dish, and that it will work with whatever PVR type linux software you're going to use!)

If you can put in a big C band dish you can usually get them for free and that gives you even more "real" TV including but not limited to, most networks in the Alaska time zone, TechTV, Independent Film Channel, Fox Movie Classics, CNBC, another NBC affiliate, CBC Newsworld International, CTV network feeds (Canadian tv network), ASN (another Canadian TV station that carries a lot of WB/UPN type content), TVU (a Christian MTV of sorts if you like that kind of music) and lots more foreign channels, feeds, shopping channels, and religious channels. Upfront cost: a big C band dish, actuator (motor arm thingy), dual-band LNBF -- all that you can usually get for $0-$150 from someone who thinks there isn't anything to watch on it anymore [they probably have an old analog/videocipher system] and they've switch to directv or whatever, $300 for a Satcruiser 2040ACE (does Analog [Techtv, ABC East/West, wildfeeds, etc) to move the dish and decode the DVB signals, a couple splitters and a 2 port diseqc switch to go between C and Ku band digital and away you go.

YMMV, but to me I get more than enough TV, all my favourite shows I used to watch, and no monthly bill. I invested about $500 Canadian into my system about a year ago so I'm probably at the break even point now vs paying for a comparable package on expressvu. If you live in a city or real close to a city an antenna might be fine, especially if you can get good digital OTA TV which is available in some large markets in the US, but I'm at least an hours drive from even the smallest city so satellite was the only way for me if I wanted a decent selection.

BTW, in Europe Free-To-Air is basically standard and almost all channels are available that way, have a look at Lyngsat.

Hope this helps...

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[The Spoonman]

I've got the TW DVR, too, and for the most part it IS a great addition to my service, but there are two issues that keep me from recommending it to people:

1) If I'm watching a TV show, and have to leave or something, I can't just hit Record and go. If I just hit record out of the blue, the DVR will continue recording until I either a) unplug the box or b) set it to record something else in the future, then cancel that recording. PITA.

2) The scheduling of recordings is almost useless. Let's say you wanna set it to record "Enterprise" every week. That show is now on Wednesdays at 9PM. I can't tell the DVR to record every episode that starts on Wed night at 9, I have to tell it to record EVERY EPISODE of the show. And, if the show's on more than once a week, you get every one, even if it's a repeat. Stupid, stupid, stupid. "Enterprise" isn't that big a deal 'cause it's only shown twice a week, but my wife's pissed that she has to manually set it to record "Queer Eye" every friggin' week, 'cause otherwise, the HD gets filled by Thursday. Does Bravo show anything else but "Queer Eye" anymore?

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[Lumpy]

I work for a cable company, I reccomended to my brothers and monther to get the dish instead of cable. In fact I would have the dish if I did not get cable for free/insane discount (My cable package would cost a regular person $150.00 a month easy)

The dish does NOT get affected in heavy rain or snowfall UNLESS it is a massive downpour, and it is aligned right. a misaligned dish will look good on a clear day, but crap out easily.

also you can get heated dishes, which is what I reccomended to my family so buildup of snow is a non-issue.

Dish + DSL. the only way to go until the calbe companies figure out how to cut their rates in 1/2..

My mother pay's nearly 1/2 her old cable rate and get's more channels + locals on the satfeed in 3 rooms.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[nvrrobx]

The current TimeWarner DVR box (atleast here in the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles) allows you to timeshift normal programs. The box you're thinking of is the standard box that does iControl (on-demand - I have that box also)

The TimeWarner DVR box has a great interface, but has one major drawback - DO NOT put it in your stereo cabinet, especially if it has doors on it. The unit has no cooling system and will quite quickly eat its hard drive alive.

The TW DVR box is also dual tuner, so it defintely competes with the DirecTV DVR (TiVo) service.

The DirecTV HD-DVR will set you back $1k also, unless you're a new subscriber, then you can pick one up for like $99 or something, when it's actually released.

Weather does not greatly impact DirecTV signal either. I moved to LA from Seattle, and my satellite never suffered from "rain fade". The key is to make sure you have a signal quality of 90% or more on a clear, sunny day, then you won't be affected. A friend can't get better than 75-80% on a good day, and he was drastically affected by rain fade. That ruined more than one Mariners game we tried to watch!

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Did you even read the original comment?

The original comment refers to the *high definition* Dish PVR. You got a *standard definition* Dish PVR + 2 *standard definition* recievers for $99. Many stores offer the same deal with the DirecTV DVR (1 DVR + 2 Recievers for $99, installed)

Re:Tech TV

[taniwha]

it does in Oakland - at least in the new digital lineup - one of the things they seem to be doing as part of their fiber buildout is to expand their 'basic cable' lineup from 30 channels to include all of the analog channels (and I assume charge more for 'basic' in the process). I think they are probably moving analog channels to digital in the process.

Remember they can fit many digital channels in the cable spectrum that a single analog one fits - they need to move all the analog channels eventually to digital to provide more channels in the same space

clarification of correction

[raygundan]

You can use a normal standalone tivo with any source. A dedicated satellite tivo (currently) has several advantages over using an SA tivo for satellite, though:

1. No need for any sort of control cable or "IR blaster" or serial connection to make your standalone tivo control your cable or satellite tuner box.

2. Two built-in tuners. Record two shows at the same time, while watching a third that you've already recorded. This is freaking fantastic, and I hope we start seeing 2-tuner SA tivos as well.

3. Pure digital recording. With a DirecTivo, it records the digital stream straight off the satellite. If you use an SA tivo and a satellite tuner box, the stream gets decoded by the satellite box and then re-encoded to mpeg by the tivo. You'll see quality loss.

Anyway, just wanted to lay it all out. An SA tivo works with everything, and is truly in its element with analog cable. A DTivo is fantastic and has several advantages, but is can't be used for anything but DirecTV.

Re:emergency backup

[EulerX07]

"If you have a cable modem, you'll still get analog cable if its offered in your area, regardless of what the cable company may tell you."

That's quite untrue. I've worked for 3 years for Tech Support for Videotron in Montreal. When we sent techs to install cable internet at a location with no cable TV, we'd make a note for them to install a high pass filter with a cut-off that takes the analog cable frequencies out.

There's also plenty of posts in this thread about cable internet being reliable. My experience (6000+ tech support calls when I was there) is that a reliable cable modem with good RX/TX levels and S/N ratio is rock steady. I could poll the modems to get their signal ration from our support apps to check them. If a problem exist in the transmission levels, you send a tech over to find the problem and fix it.

Of course, there's no cure for people putting crap-tastic splitters (especially non-bidirectional) and ruining their transmission. Double that if the client keeps removing it when the tech comes over to check and puts it back on when he leaves. "The tech said the reception was ok! Waahhh!"

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[Aiku1337]

If you have the same DVR that I do (Scientific Atlanta), after you have set the DVR to record the entire series, press the List button on your remote and then press the B button. That will take you to "series manager". You can then fine tune some options for the series you wish to record. You can tell it to record only first run episodes, or to fix your problem, to record that show only when it plays at a certain time and only on that channel.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[mregit]

For a short time I had satellite and lived under the flight path for a local airport. Planes flying overhead do block out the signal for a moment. It just pauses and scrambles the picture, but occasionally it happens at a moment when someone is saying something important. "Important News Bulletin for residents of FUZZZZZZZZZZZ more on tonights news at 6." The biggest problem was not having television during cloudy weather - it doesn't have to be raining where you are, there just has to be enough moisture in the sky to block reception. What good is TV if you don't have it on rainy days when the kids are inside? I dropped satellite when my term was up and will never go back.

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[ConceptJunkie]

Clearly your antenna wasn't aligned well because the only time I lose my satellite signal is during a serious thunderstorm... and even then it's seldom longer than a few minutes.

cbl vs sat

[jack455]

While the cable commercials aren't wrong when they say you lose satellite in severe weather, they exaggerate.
I've had both Digital Satellite and "Digital" Cable.
Digital is almost always just a buzzword to confuse the ignorant. Most cable companies didn't increase their resolution when switching to digital.
Summary is that satellite has 480 lines. (480 in the 640x480)Cable has 240? something sad like that.
If you need your TV during a storm to keep you occupied then get cable. Me I turn mine off so it doesn't get surged.
(I'd recommend Dish Network over DirecTV for political reasons go to http://www.eff.org/directvdefense/20030812_eff_pr. php [eff.org] for why
Good Luck!

Re:Satellite has one big advantage

[japhmi]

I was watching the news at a friends house over new years (while we were snowed in). We started to get a 'loosing conection to sat 1' error. The guy took a broom and got the snow out of the actual dish, and we were good (sat internet too).

Re:I have both

[MarkGriz]

I'm no fan of cable TV, and have been a happy DTV customer for about a year.
But just to be fair, even a "perfect" signal going into your standalone Tivo in Best Quality, will never match the picture quality you'll get from your DTivo. This is primarily because of the inferior MPEG encoding on the SA Tivo, compared to the industrial strength encoding done by DirectTV before it goes over the satellite.

Down here in the sunny tropics...

[hummassa]

Here in Belo Horizonte (somewhat highland of Southeastern Brasil), in the "monsoon" season (high summer, from xmas to late january) I get many thunderstorms (10 to 20 days/year), and we stay 1-2h each time without sat tv signal (SkyTV).
I'm lucky, cause I live really high in the city next to the hills where the local tv antennae are situated, so I have good reception even without an aerial antenna. And more, I am a cable subscriber to have internet, so I have the "minimum package" of tv from the cable co. ...

HDTV Sat $$$ HDTV Cable $$$

[Poppa]

HDTV for Satellite will run you at least $500 for the equipment, whereas HDTV on Cable is only about a $5 monthly charge.

Plus, you get the local channels in HDTV.

This year there will be Motorola PVR with single and dual tuners. And VOD is also coming within a few months in my area (already enabled in other areas).

From the horse's mouth

[Sivar]

Disclaimer: Until just recently, I worked for DirecTV (left of my own volition for a more flexible job). That said, here is my honest opinion and/or observations about your questions:

Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact).

This is bullshit. Many cable companies, including my own (CableOne), make similar statements. Consider the source.
If your dish is properly aligned, the weather has to be quite severe to interrupt your signal. If it is quite severe, you will probably get signal interruptions, freeze-framing, pixelization, etc.
A few anecdotal examples:
My grandmother has a sparse tree (not sure of the species, it has leaves so is not a pine) directly in front of her dish. When I visited during the monsoon season, most of her transponders had a signal strength of 75-85. DirecTV recommends a signal strength of 70 or higher in clear weather to prevent signal loss in trivially bad weather. 80, IMO, is a safer number to shoot for. If you are a true geek, you will probably fine tune it to get it in the high 90's. ;-)

- I have never lost picture, even in fairly severe snowstorms. I made sure my dish was well aligned though.

If the dish is poorly aligned usually due to a customer self-installation or due to an installation by Halstedt Communications, an installation company known by DirecTV employees for being almost universally incompetent. Unofficially, of course.

What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception?

Digital cable and DirecTV have a nearly identical picture quality from what I have seen. Many channels in "digital" cable packages are analog, then you pay to add a set of digital channels on top of the analog base package. Analog picture quality varies based on a great number of factors, and IMO goes from "fairly decent" to "almost as good as pure digital." IIRC, DirecTV's picture is 480^2 MPEG-2 video, but I cannot recall for sure. Digital cable is probably the same or similar.

Weather does not effect picture quality at all. Generally, you either have it or you don't. Freeze-framing and pixelization can occur with very bad signal strength, but I consider this "not having it at all"

If all but obviously severe weather effects your satellite signal, call and have your vendor come and fix it. There is no reason that you should have to put up with losing your signal more than during a couple of really bad storms per year, and even then, not for more than half an hour (unless the storm lasts quite a long time).

Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."

All vendors' PVRs except DirecTV's are very basic. Tivo is, IMHO, simply a superior service, giving you much more than just recording. HOWEVER, it does have a monthly fee. Some PVR services (the very basic ones) do not.
A few important notes:
If you get a Tivo for anything other than DirecTV,
the recording will not really be digital. Non-DirecTV Tivos are designed to accept an analog signal (to be compatible with a wide variety of TV services), so that analog signal is converted to digital to actually record to disk, then back to analog again for playback. If you have a digital connection from your RV to Tivo, only the one conversion takes place.
Tivo for non-DirecTV is also much more expensive. $12.00USD per month last time I checked. It is $4.99 for DirecTV customers (whether you use a DirecT

Cable in Portland

[Baloo Ursidae]

In Portland [wikipedia.org], we have Comcast [wikipedia.org]. Analog cable is known for having a decent, though frustratingly limited selection (and a few that nobody is sure why they included them...like The Golf Channel...Portland has way too many 9 and 18 hole courses, a couple 32s and a 128 hole course...Portlanders spend too much time golfing to watch other people golf...or the TV Guide and any of the home shopping channels...nobody watches those.) and the best signal in town compared to anything else. Their digital cable [wikipedia.org] service has way, way more channels, but you pay a lot for it, and there's only about 5 good ones, each on a separate lineup, each costs something like another $8/ea on top of the digital premium and analog service. The MPEG-2 [wikipedia.org] encoding is really substandard. It's like watching satellite in the ever-present rainstorms here (anybody who lives here can tell you, rain falls nearly horizontal, anything else is just high humidity. The locals do not carry umbrellas: they don't work well in the wind (when it's actually raining), but aren't worth the trouble for the more springlike brief showers.).

On the other hand, if you use a TiVo, and always record on the lowest quality, you're not going to notice too much of a difference with satellite, though bad weather will noticably chop up the signal (wind and wildlife vibrating or reaiming the dish, dense clouds/fog, heavy rain, ice forming on it in cold weather, snow buildup, etc), I remember when times were better and I shared a 4BR/2BA house with a bunch of friends and we could easily afford every channel DirecTV offered, nice clear warm night, open all the doors and windows, and turn on a movie with a signal so clear you would have thought you were on analog cable and lived inside the headend.

Broadband, however...I've had Verizon and Qwest and some time or another for a DSL provider. They both suck so bad that I don't even trust them with my landline anymore, they lost my business to Vonage [vonage.com]. Cable is the least of all evils. They'll let you get internet service a-la carte without television if you want (which is how we did it in said big-ass house, plus half of us worked for @Home, so we got 30Mbps/10Mbps for free anyway). The half of us in that house that worked for @Home, both used and loved @Home. I knew, at the time, about as many people who worked for Qwest and one guy who worked for Verizon. All the guys who worked for Qwest really had a hard time even selling their service to their customers, and were @Home customers themselves and loved cable. The guy from Verizon might know where the power button on a computer is if it's got a big, neon sign flashing, pointing at it, and the button itself is illuminated and clearly labelled.

The correct answer should be intuitive by this point. 8:o)

Re:clarification of correction

[DonGar]

I agree with the poster about dual tuner Directv TiVo being amazing, but there is one problem.

The latest wave of cool features for TiVo, such as the home media option, boxes with DVD burning, etc aren't available in Directv versions. It's not a technology problem, but Directv won't allow their release (at least not so far).

On the other hand, the HD Directv TiVo will be out soon, and will only be for Directv (at least for the moment), though it does receive ATSC signals.

Re:bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth

[digidemon]

Excellent points about bandwidth. Also, for the technical purists out there, you will find most cable systems do not compress digital signals nearly as much as satellite - this lower compression gives you a much better picture. It is true that ALL of their channels are not digital, but I don't care if CNN or Cartoon Network is digital. They did convert the local channels to digital and they look great. I went with cable. Once you got past the basic satellite package, the costs were virtually identical. I have Time Warner cable, (Memphis TN) with a DVR box (costs $5/mo) - which is the greatest. TW just added 4 HD signals this weekend bringing the total here to 10 full time and 2 others that show part time sports. They don't have ESPN HD yet, but said they should have soon. They don't have NBC HD yet, but say NBC is the problem, and say they will have an HD DVR out next month (I have seen one work- yes I hound them on HD, if you don't have HD... well, can you say CGA to XGA) They have video on demand, and 20 of the video on demand channels are free, only the ppv movie channels, hbo, cinemax on demand and porn on demand cost extra. Cable also had more channels (about 320 vs 225) to select from. I also have a cable modem - and have 3mbps download speed, which does hit 2.9 to 3.1 mbps usually any time... at $45, that ain't bad!

Re:DirecTV w/ TiVo advantage

[Matt_Bennett]

I got one of the Time Warner DVRs when Time Warner first offered them in Austin. It was a piece of crap. Crashed all the time, the "pause live TV" feature never really worked for me, the last straw was when it crashed, taking all my recorded programs with it. I took it back. I'm about to ditch Time Warner for DirectTV. For the price they charge, they just aren't worth it.

Re:clarification of correction

[Rich0]

One other advantage of DirecTivo - storage space!

Because it records the direct compressed signal off the dish, it makes MUCH better use of storage space.

A normal-capacity standalone box only gets about 8 hours of recording time at the highest quality setting (which is still worse than DirecTivo since you are recompressing). DirecTivo gets pretty much the advertised 35 hours with full quality.

Why is this, you ask? Simple - the folks at DirecTV have MUCH better equipment available for doing the compression of the shows. Remember, they only have limited satellite bandwidth, and better compression means more channels to carry which means more subscriber fees for pay-per-view, etc. (They also take advantage of low-detail frames in one channel to free up bandwidth for high-detail scenes playing at the same time on another channel.) They don't just have a dinky chip that they could get for $40 doing their compression - and for non-live shows they can presumably compress the show in non-realtime for broadcast later. A standalone Tivo has to do the best compression it can with very limited CPU power and memory.

DirecTivo gives you the same quality as you see off an ordinary box, with much better use of disk space. My father had a standalone unit with DirecTV - there is no comparison. Especially when I saw him having to carefully negotiate with the family the meager quota of shows that could be recorded at high quality.