Cable TV Versus Satellite TV? 1218
rufey writes "In the next few weeks I'll be moving and am thinking about getting either cable TV or satellite. I don't need broadband Internet (I use DSL), so getting cable TV bundled with broadband is not an option I'm considering. Comcast is the local cable provider in my area, and are playing TV spots about how satellite TV signals can be lost when it rains, when the wind blows, and even when the dog sneezes (I'm sure the dog sneezing excuse in the commercials are more for humor than fact). What has been Slashdot readers' experience with cable and satellite TV? I'm looking at trying to balance cost versus quality of signal and picture. How much does the weather affect the signal quality of satellite TV reception? Some satellite packages include a DVR (Comcast doesn't offer one yet in my area). Is it worth getting the DVR supplied by the satellite company (DirectTV, DishNetwork), or is buying a separate TiVo a better option? As a geek, I'm also interested in getting NASA TV."
Satellite all the way (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll put it this way: my cable modem has had more downtime than my satellite TV over the last two years, and every time I've checked, the cable TV feed has also been messed up whenever the cable modem has had trouble.
Plus, if you get an integrated DirecTV/TiVo receiver, you get to time-shift your shows with zero quality loss. With a standalone TiVo there's an extra D/A conversion between the satellite receiver and the video cable, then an A/D conversion and a lossy compression step to get from the cable onto the TiVo's hard disk. I quite enjoy being able to make pristine archive DVDs of my favorite shows without any re-encoding at all.
Re:how about: Kill Your TV. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:how about... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Directv beats cable (Score:5, Insightful)
I pay $45.00 a month for Directv and Tivo (39.00 for Directv, $4.99 for tivo) I don't have to pay some stupid rental fee for the cable box. I can take the damned thing with me if I want.
It's a win win situation.
Oh, and those commercials where the cable company tries to tell you why you shouldn't use Satellite are effing retarded. I love the one where the customer is told they will need to chop down their tree for service. Uh, clueless customer, you need to put the dish in a place where an un-obstructed view of the southern sky is. Then you won't have this problem.
Weather (as far as I can tell, and it's been a rough winter so far) DOES NOT affect service.
4 days after I installed the dish, the winds hit about 35 mph, with some nasty sideways rain. Not a pixel of static or interference. I guess it helps to actually bolt the dish on properly.
In a nutshell, cable sucks big hairy goat testicles, and I'll never get it again. If the weather is so bad to affect your dish, chances are you need to be taking cover anyway.
HTH
Im sure its been said (Score:2, Insightful)
Most cable providers will have the exact same problems in extreme weather as satellite has.
The cable providers fail to mention that they get most/all of their feeds from satellite. A properly aligned dish will not go out unless under the most extreme weather, in which case the cable satellites are also having problems.
Kill your TV (Score:2, Insightful)
Have you ever looked at people watching TV? Their mouths hanging open a bit, a glazed look in their eyes... try it some time.
Throw it away. Read a book. Gain several hours PER DAY in free time in which you can code, play computer games, go for a walk, talk to people, read slashdot...
Kill Your TV (Score:2, Insightful)
The reception with rabbit ears varies with location, but even if the new season of "Friends" comes in all snowy - is that really a problem?
A lot of worthwhile PBS is available via the net now. Or just read the transcripts.
Re:how about: Kill Your TV. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? Heck, being forced to listen to the Barney song 24/7 while immersed in a sensory deprivation tank for three months with a severed spinal cord is more intellectually stimulating than so-called "Must See TV."
I mean you could've picked the Discovery channel, the History channel, Food Network, the Sundance channel, or any of a dozen other sources of good quality television, and I might've conceded the point, but network television? Come on, playing Tic-Tac-Toe against a toddler is more intellectually stimulating than network television. It's like having a shiny, flashy, happy video lobotomy.
inclimate weather? (Score:2, Insightful)
DirecTV all the way (Score:2, Insightful)
Additionally I get free basic cable from Comcast, who provides my internet connection. So I save a couple of bucks by not getting DirecTV local channels (although Telefutura'd be nice [soccer]).
I use it with an original Sony-built TiVo series 1. It nicely integrates the cable and DirecTV receiver so that I get a single stream of channels, i.e., it's smart enough to use the built-in tuner for cable and to control the DirecTV box for the higher channels. The guide and everything is similarly unbroken. The nice thing about the TiVo series one is it's a geek haven -- it's YOUR box and you can do with it what you will. Checkout "Hacking TiVo" over at Amazon, reviewed here sometime in the past.
My decision is based mostly on the languages and channels offered (i.e., all the Spanish stuff for my wife), so I'd never, ever consider Comcast for all my needs here in Michigan. I imagine that in downtown L.A. the cable options for my needs would be better. But still, I was a DirecTV customer since before I met my wife, so I guess I'm just overall really, really happy with it.
DirecTV with TiVo (Score:2, Insightful)
If it's Comcast, then go with a dish (Score:3, Insightful)
We've had DirecTV ever since and have had very reliable service -- more reliable than (analog) Comcast, to be honest. We lose the satellite signal in very heavy rain, and usually for only fifteen minutes at most. (We're more likely to lose power than satellite, to be honest.) We've never lost signal due to trees, clouds, wind, ice, snow, steady rain, dogs sneezing, cats coughing, kids screaming, birds crapping, etc.
As for DVRs, we do have a DirecTV TiVo. It's probably not as good as a standalone series 2 TiVo, but I don't know how well a standalone TiVo integrates with DirecTV as compared to a DirecTV TiVo. Works fine, regardless, and we wouldn't give it up.
Re:how about: Kill Your TV. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't recall the last time my TV allowed me to read, think, and interact with it.
Re:Tivo is fantastic, but doesn't work for everyth (Score:4, Insightful)
How about *no* TV - The BEST option. (Score:1, Insightful)
You'll find you have more time for other interests and more time for new interests.
Instead of lusting after a more broad connection to the collective conscience, why dont you try and understand your own? Television is a waste of brain cycles friend, resist the temptation to allow this device (and its programmers) to do your thinking for you.
You sound like this might be your first place On Your Own (?), try moving somewhere urban and interesting. Live life, dont be a passive observer.
Happily Television free for 4 years.
Re:Satellite has one big advantage (Score:1, Insightful)
It makes sense to go to a larger dish in many cases: 18" ~= 255 sq inches of dish 24" ~= 452 sq inches of dish.
Cable customer here (Score:3, Insightful)
My cable provider is Time Warner. And I must say that they are pretty good. We only have a basic cable TV package, but that's good enough for me. Because of the increasing competition from satellite companies, they keep adding more channels. Most I don't even watch, really. I stick to around 5 hours a week or so of TV, so it's not a big deal. I don't have digital cable, so reception is good, but not perfect. I've seen both digital cable and satellite, and they are both better than regular cable. But heck, it keeps me from watching too much.
One thing that cable TV is nice for is convenience. You just plug in one cable and you're ready to go. No cable/satellite boxes necessary. You want to add another TV, you just plug it in and hook up the cable and you're good to go. So that's always nice. And I have to say that Time Warner has been top notch for support. One call and they are out there fixing the problem. They even ran a new cable from the phone pole to our house to fix some bad reception we were having once!
We also have our Internet access through Road Runner, which is owned by, of course, Time Warner. So even if we wanted to switch to satellite, we would STILL have a Time Warner bill for our cable modem. Not only that, it'd go up because we'd be doing without Time Warner to provide TV. So you really can't beat them for convenience in that respect either. And Road Runner's been nice to us. I can host my own web/email server off of it, and they have never complained. RR's support is pretty good as well, as long as you get past level 1 support. They are in Texas, and it doesn't help that I'm in New York. Level 2 support, which is local to our area is actually helpful. I see no reason to switch from them, considering we have no other Internet options aside from dial-up access.
So I guess it boils down to the fact that cable TV isn't perfect, but it sure is convenient to say the least. And I don't know how much work setting up and maintaining a satellite dish involves, but Time Warner takes care of pretty much everything as far as the cable end of the setup is concerned. I've been pleased every time I've contacted them so far. (3 times total in being a customer for the past 6 years or so) If you need the perfect picture clarity, go for satellite. If not, go with cable. It's very easy to use and "good enough" in most cases.
Re:Satellite has one big advantage (Score:2, Insightful)
The DVR/PVR units that TW and Comcast are selling their customers are sub-par, and not hackable AFAIK.
I've known a few people who were snobs about their TW PVR units, until I brought them over to check out my DirecTV Tivo, they've been converted =)
Until cable providers start providing PVR's that allow you to skip commercials decently (along with the rest of the great tivo features), they'll always be sub-par.
Re:Satellite has one big advantage (Score:3, Insightful)
Better yet, you run audio and S-video cables between your [satellite receiver|digital cable box] and your TiVo, and you set your TiVo to record from the S-video input instead of its built-in tuner. You get much less signal degradation that way.
I prefer satellite... (Score:3, Insightful)
Quality and value... satellite providers have more total bandwidth (about 2-4x) to work with than the typical hybrid fiber-coax cable plant. Being all digital they don't have to carry legacy analog channels. So, they have less need to compress heavily than the cable guys do and so can offer more channels at lower cost.
Programming
Reliability... as much as the cable ads make of it, it's a total non-issue with satellite. It's amazingly robust. In the three years on DISH I had one (!) outage due to rain fade, and then only for about 30 seconds or so. Compare this to my experience with cable providers (in my case Charter, now Adelphia) who seem to have several outages a year: distribution amps blowing up, segments taken down for maintenance/upgrades, and so forth.
Equipment... the satellite providers seem to adopt new tech more quickly than the cable MSO's. They embrace newer media (like HDTV, PVR's, etc.) more enthusiastically than the cable heavyweights do. This has a lot to do with the business model: generally, they unbundle the box from the service (you own the box) so you have choice. Some perceive this as a drawback; however when you look at the poor quality of most cable boxes vs. their rental cost you can see you get a better shake from DirecTV or DISH.
Customer service... DISH is awesome, can't speak for DirecTV although I understand they've improved too. In my case DISH patiently worked with me to debug a complex HDTV setup using a 5200 IRD, HDTV modulator and a Mistubishi HD set. Another time they broke 'seamless integration' with a firmware upgrade, they fixed it in two days (!) after I reported it to them.
Now, the satellite drawbacks...
First, there's no 'analog only' option so you're always looking at MPEG-2 and thus have slower channel surfing (not to mention your TV's P-I-P is mostly useless.) I understand there are IRD's with two decoders now.
Second, satellite broadband is poor due to the up/down latency (c = 300,000 km/s, it's the law
Third, you do have to mount the antenna. Some quibble about this but it's not a big deal: installation and gear are free if you buy a package; it's a simple DIY project if you prefer to run your own.
Most users need only one dual-LNB antenna. DISH needs a second one aimed at 61.5 or 148 if you want some of the 'non-core' programming, such as their slate of international channels (including Al-Jazeera and World Link TV - gotta get your Karachi Kops somehow) and some of the HDTV feeds. If your locals aren't on the core sats (110 and 119) DISH will install the second antenna free.
Also, before you commit to satellite, you need to verify that you have a clean sight line to the bird(s.) DISH has a tool you can download to get your azimuth and elevation to each bird. For the continental US the core satellites are at 101, 110 and 119 deg. - generally due south for most people. You do need to mount the antenna(s) on something that doesn't move - a nearby tree won't do it. If you're unsure about any of this have an installer do a site survey for you prior to entering into a contract.
If these drawbacks aren't a concern for you... then your next choice is DirecTV or DISH.
Three things should dictate your choice: programming, equipment and service.
Programming... DirectTV has NFL Sunday Ticket, DISH does not. DISH has lots of international programming, DirecTV does not. Other than that their lineup is nearly identical, but... to
AC Was Wrong. But You're an Idiot. (Score:1, Insightful)
You're no different than the teenaged ELF terrorists who firebomb SUV dealerships. You're exactly like the PETA psychos who storm three-star restaurants and spraypaint fur coats. A fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic, and you're a fanatic.
You're right: planning your life around the A-Team was sick. You were indeed using television to fill a void in your empty little life, and that's quite unhealthy. But what you're doing now is no different: You've simply replaced watching the television with ranting about it. You're still obsessed with something that detracts attention from other aspects of your life -- only instead of being obsessed with something neutral, you've replaced it with a great deal of negativity. And clearly, from the tone of your posts in this thread, your paper-thin superiority complex is doing nothing to counterbalance that negativity.
You're right: America would be nuts if everyone were allowing television to subvert their free will. Problem is, that isn't the case -- and you're the nut, for believing otherwise. You were a sick puppy, stressing yourself out to catch reruns of a 20-year-old show. And today you're like the recovering alcoholic who insists there's no such thing as a "social drinker." To him, everyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. Likewise, to your pathetically egocentric view of the world: You couldn't watch television without becoming obsessed, therefore no one else can, either.
You haven't grown. You haven't matured. You certainly haven't recovered. You've simply replaced one drug with another. And whatever time you may have gained with your friends and family, you've certainly cost yourself plenty of goodwill with your ten-cent attitude that forsaking TV entitles you to a step ahead of everyone else.
Wind and Satellite don't mix (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:True geeks still use C-Band! (Score:3, Insightful)
Whenever I go over to a friends and watch their digital satellite, I am shocked at how terrible the quality is (very overcompressed). This is with StarChoice, in Canada. I don't know how it is in the States, but I've not been impressed with what I've seen here.
Between my C-Band dish and my antenna, I get much better quality (and much much cheaper! I pay ~$60 Canadian per YEAR for my C-Band service, since I choose just the few channels I want), for the most part. The local stations (Toronto area) on broadcast look wonderful.. so do the UHF Buffalo stations (no static at all, strong image). Low VHF is a problem because of interference from Ontario Hydro's electrical lines, but that's another story...
Am I the only one who finds analog noise more pleasing than digital macroblocking, though?
bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth (Score:2, Insightful)
With satellite, the problem really isn't the finicky dish behavior (overly dramatized), but the fact that it's a bottleneck. Currently the DSS providers don't have the bandwidth necessary to broadcast local HD programming. The only way to increase the bandwidth is to launch more satellites. That takes time and money, so if you want local DTV channels, you'll need a plain old UHF/VHF antenna to grab the over-the-air signals.
Your average HD broadcast is between 15 and 20 Mbps. 15 being 720p and 20 being 1080i. Should 1080p come along, that would roughly double the bandwidth requirement of 1080i. The DSS providers are going to have to resort to more aggressive compression sooner than the cable providers...
My experiences (Score:3, Insightful)
Satellite has advantages, mostly in the way of programming choices over cable. With cable you're stuck with whatever deal your local provider offers; sat offers choice and in my humble opinion should be seen as programming options rather than service options.
Number one, as always, is cost. Where I'm from, cable and sat are pretty much identical; so it's a push. If that's not the case with your providers, it's gotta be a consideration.
Sat can be unreliable if the dish isn't installed properly.
The sat companies tend to underplay the installation issues. "Buy the dish, throw it up damn near anywhere, you're good to go" is the mantra. They're lying.
You want a solid dish mount. The sat companies tend to suggest that you can just use the cheezy mount that comes in the box and go. In my experience, a handy person can do better and it pays off. My sat is stabilized with "aircraft cable" and turnbuckles, and doesn't move a fraction of an inch in 60 mph winds. It's also mounted on a pole that puts it above power lines and the neighbors. The mount/dish they give you will wallow like jello in a decent wind and you will notice it.
Sat is a kind of digital link, in that as long as you get 55% or so signal, it's fine. Drop below that even a bit and it starts to crap out, and in a digital sort of way it's all good or it's all crap. I get 85% plus and in a 60 mph gale or solid downpour I still get over 60%.
Even if they swear the little dish they give you is fine, you can always do better with a bigger dish. The improvement in signal strength really matters if trouble-free is important to you. Spring for a larger dish and you will never regret it; it does make a big difference.
People who lose reception due to snow, rain and obstructions are people who bought the party line and use the dish that comes with the cheapest bundle, and mounted it the way the instructions said to. I live in a heavy snow zone and it's less of a problem than rain or wind. You can buy a cover that is signal-transparent but keeps snow and rain off the dish. They work fine.
Don't believe their lies (and by "their" I mean the dish networks, not the users, who, after all, just trusted the sat company to tell it like it is).
If that's too much trouble or not a viable option due to your location or whatever, then go with cable. Personally I despise the cable company, but I'm not too proud to suck it up when they're the best option. If I lived in an apartment I'd go cable without a second thought.