Consequences of Turning Down a Promotion? 104
The Fun Guy asks: "I'm part of a research team, doing interesting work on an important topic. However, I've been getting some signals from various superiors that I might be put in charge of another team; the trouble is, that team is dysfunctional, unproductive, and the focus is not as cool as what I'm working on now. I do have career ambitions to move up the ladder of responsibility and authority, and even recently applied for a job three rungs up, mostly as a way to get noticed by the big wigs. It looks like they noticed, but that project looks like a minefield. I really think I'd rather be second banana on a great project than top banana on a lousy one. How bad would it be for my long-term prospects if I say 'Thanks, but no thanks, I'll wait for a better offer'?"
Many factors to consider (Score:5, Insightful)
What kind of pay raise are they offering? Do you they think you can help the team become productive? If you can do it, you would have proven yourself to do well in higer level positions. If you can't, you may lose the position like the guy you'd be replacing and get stuck in lower job or on the street. And of course there's the fun factor. Then there's what they might think of you if you turned it down. They might already have someone lined up to fill in your current job, and so on going down the line. And it may make you appear selfish if you turn it down. They may think you'll make the difference between that project's success or failure. It's all about risks, rewards, and sacrifices, and since you're the one faced with it, you understand them better than any of us.
It's obvious... (Score:2, Insightful)
push it away with a stick (Score:5, Insightful)
Troubled projects are always in search of fresh meat to run them. Nine times out of ten the poor sap that takes on the responsibility fails, after suffering for a long time, and screwing up his future with the company in the bargain.
Be very careful when you choose a project to run. Remember that you will forever be associated with it for good or bad. Much better to start running a new project, or one that's already in decent shape.
Comfort vs Advancement (Score:5, Insightful)
Rejecting an offer will often be seen as a sign you're happy where you are. The next offer might not come your way.
Think of it this way - at least you seem to work for a company that's doing some sort of career planning for you.
Besides, do a good job and turn a team around and you'll be very highly considered in future.
Leadership (Score:5, Insightful)
Honesty is the best policy (Score:5, Insightful)
you asked for it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems as though you introduced yourself into the career ladder game, which means you asked for this: it's standard procedure, you're being asked to "fix up" a dysfunctional team, and if you take on the role and do the work, then you'll be somewhat fast tracked as a "doer" and "fixer".
If you don't take on the role, you're not going to be given another like it soon, and you may get an opportunity to move up, but it's not going to happen fast. If you _really_ want to be a "doer" and "fixer", then you can't pick and choose: you take what's offered and make it happen - that's the essence of being marked as someone who can be relied upon.
Transform it into a good project (Score:5, Insightful)
As to the consequences of turing it down think about this: Companies want people who can rescue projects, motivate staff and above all communicate setbacks to superiors effectively. You don't need to be a superstar, but declining the position will show that you are scared of a challenge and like to hedge your bets rather than commit.
Take the job and don't look back: Be direct with the existing project team and make sure that you understand the sources of their frustration and conflicts. Then decide on a direction, communicate it and provide leadership. Tell the truth and tell it early.
Good luck!
Ask them these questions (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, if the company believes that you're far better than any other candidate and/or that they would be injured if you didn't take the position, you should feel some obligation to take this position (assuming you are loyal to the company). If you don't, I think you'll rightfully be overlooked for future opportunities. Also, if you can get upper management to relate to your situation and help them find a viable alternative, you may help them appreciate your dedication to your current team.
At the end of the day, I think you have to understand the situation better: are you putting the team (or management) in a bad spot by not taking the position or are they just offering it to you because they think you're restless in your current job (you said you were applying for others)?
Who knows? They may be trying to do you a favor.
Welcome to Corporate America... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have the balls and know how to turn this team around, regardless of what it may take (gutting the team, refining the goal), then step up and get the damn job done. If not, then you spoke out of turn, and should resign to being left behind in your current position since you couldn't deliver when called upon. In fact, if you turn this down, you may want to start planning to leave the company since you will be sending a message that you don't understand the game or where it is you want to go.
Management is not fun, it is work, and it is harder work then being a cog in the machine. This is why the big bucks come at the top. Good luck.
If you're gonna die... (Score:4, Insightful)
I am of the 'never turn a new opportunity' down school when it comes to advancement. But I've never been in your exact situation so.... Taking on a nasty job nobody would want is a good way to make a lot of ground though.
This is a bit OT but 2 things- don't feel bad about your weight- for your height you are not doing too bad. I'm 3 inches shorter and quite a bit heavier- but getting lighter every day. The second thing- if you ever feel like feed back - or talking over how the diet goes allow comments on your blog here.
You're made your bed -- will you lay in it or not? (Score:5, Insightful)
Based strictly on how you presented your predicament, I'd say your turning down the one-rung-up promotion would essentially say "no way, man, I want the THREE rung up job", not "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck." This is bad, because it makes you look arrogant and unrealistic.
Heck, even if it says "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck", who wants to promote someone who won't jump in and fix problems when they find it? You don't move up the ladder unless you're willing to take the bad with the good.
So I'd personally say, again based exclusively on what you posted (so YMMV), turning down this offer will guarantee two things:
1. You'll get to stay in the position you're currently enjoying.
2. You're going to stay there for a long, long time.
Good luck, whichever you decide.
Re:Leadership (Score:5, Insightful)
If you feel like taking on the challenge you have the potential to make yourself look very good.
Ask yourself: what happens if you take the promotion? If you do turn it around, all the best for you. If you don't, will the superiors understand it's not necessarily your fault or will they just want a scapegoat? If you do accept, consider very carefully the team you're gonna work with and if you really think you (one man) can turn things around. From where I stand it's a win double - lose it all kind of situation.
You could stay behind but that is generally regarded very badly IMO. Can't take the responsability, ungrateful, undecisive, not interested in promoting... take your pick.
Put up or shut up (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't want to jump onto the Titanic. So, you want to start getting information about that group. Why are they dysfunctional and unproductive? Do they have the resources they need? What is the current leadership like? Who are the people in the group and how do they work together? What are their roles and skills? Can they get the job done? How could you change things for the better? Is the work not as cool, but essential to the organization?
It is easy to imagine that management might be giving you this hard nut to crack to see exactly what you are made of. Are you a leader that can step into a mess and clean it up or are you someone that is opportunistic and climbs up the ladder on the coat tails of others?
Bad assignments that need to get done and that you can step up to the plate and get done well - well, you can't get much better of a definition of opportunity.
On the other hand, you don't want to take some meaningless or unachievable task that leads nowhere.
Assess the situation, take your best guess and then get to work.
Re:Many factors to consider (Score:5, Insightful)
A project is as exciting as the people who lead it. You can mold and shape this project into a cool project. You come in, whip up the team into shape and make something out of nothing.
If I were you I wouldn't let an opportunity like this slip by me.
Except for CEOs (Score:5, Insightful)
How (Score:3, Insightful)
take the job and turn the team around! you WILL be overlooked next time if you can't show some determination.
Consequences of Turning Down a Promotion? (Score:2, Insightful)
In the boardroom... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Well, sir, I feel we've nursed them along long enough. Even if the idea could pan out, it isn't going anywhere with that team, and I suspect we can do nothing about it. The team lead is the only person worth keeping, as he has all the team data worth keeping. We need to move him somewhere safe, without alerting the remainder of the team before we kick-ban them from our servers..."
random chuckles around the table
"Hey, you remember that guy who applied for my last position, three rungs above himself? Like he could come close to replacing me. Anyway, what if we 'promote' him to the team lead, let him do the dirty work, and then if there's room somewhere else in the company he can start at the bottom again?"
"Sound goods. The donuts are gone and tee time's in 15 minutes, we'd best be ending the meeting. Anything else?"
silence...
"Good day everyone."
-Adam
Personal experience (Score:1, Insightful)
take the offer (Score:5, Insightful)
You need to do a few things before you take the job. Firstly, you need to find out everything you can about the people working on that team, the ex-management, the project, it's history, and what-not -- everything! -- before you meet any of the members of the team. You need to walk in there knowing the situation from day one. Secondly, you need to talk to your superior who offered you the job about what he thinks is wrong with the team and some general ideas he might have. You should also ask him to get you in touch with the best managers at the company, preferrably one's who have done turn-around jobs. Thirdly, you need to make sure you're walking in there with absolute authority to hire, fire, and discipline workers. You can't have those on your team second-guessing everything you say and jumping over your head to higher management. Fourthly, you need to understand exactly what your superiors expect from you, and the possible consequences of not succeeding. If this is something they really don't expect to be turned around, they probably won't hold it against you for failing.
Once your introduced to your team, you need to assume immediate authority as to what's going to go on, but you should also be receptive to inputs from your team-members.
To Paraphrase Milton (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Honesty is the best policy (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason this dilbertesque cliche of organisational structure exists is because people let it exist.
If you're going to turn down an offer the best thing to do is explain why. You might get a better one.
An example of that is a tender our company was invited to take part in. Generaly we're a scanning and printing outsourcer, but this tender had a whole lot of personel management involved as well that would have made the whole thing too much of a headache. But rather than just say no thanks or ignore it, we turned in a response saying that we would not apply for the tender, and explained the reasons why we would not.
No one else responded to it at all, but the company in question looked at our anti-response, and offered us the chance at a revised contract that was more acceptable and we took it.
By explaining why you don't want to do something it shows that you're thinking, and that you know your limitations, and are ultimately a more responsible person. Just ignoring it or turning it down with no reason will make it appear as if you have no ambition. Accepting it as is when you know you don't want it is just asking for trouble.
Also if the truth is going to set you free from you relationship, then it's doomed anyway, because the truth will always come out in a relationship eventually. But if it's coming out because you're telling it, then you have control over the way it's delivered.
Don't expect another promotion... (Score:4, Insightful)
Will they let you succeed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Thoughts from someone who used to promote peopl (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the golden nugget of information and this is why I would never accept a management position over people who were not up to the job. If the company is willing to get rid of them, why have they not done so already? The options for incompetents are:
* Train them into competency
* Move them somewhere that they will cope
* Bring in better staff to do their job and let them fester away
* Make them leave, somehow.
If none of these have been tried, then what makes you think you'll be given the resources or authority to do them yourself? It's not exactly rocket science. Unless the previous manager was a complete incompetent too, and didn't comminicate the issues to his own boss.
Of course, if the problem is not competency but motivation, then the job is far easier, if you are yourself strongly motivated. Motivation is contagious. Strongly motivated people motivate those around them, just by being keen. This is not so much a skill but a predisposition.
Well, this is how I see it from my lowly position of tech grunt, anyway.
Re:Many factors to consider (Score:4, Insightful)
And then when you're looking for a job because you got laid off, prospective employers are going to want to know why you have no ambition to go to the next level and make a bigger impact. Middle-aged and older people have a hard time finding strictly technical positions unless we're talking about stuff that is PhD level research and development. Nobody hires a coder who's been in the industry for 20+ years. Those people must be willing to accept more responsibility than just technical stuff, or they're out of a job.
It may suck, but that's the way it is.
Take a chance (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally though, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Why? Because I know I can do it. I am two years out of my undergrad, been taking classes at night and almost have my grad degree (both in engineering). I have a lot of leadership experience and fully expect (granted, part of this is ego) to be CEO of a company or President of this country one day.
I know I can succeed, I just need to prove it to others, and this is the perfect chance.
Successful people didn't become successful by taking the safe road, they took chances, took a risk and succeeded. If you aren't up for a challenge like this, you probably won't get as far as you hope. Take the risk, that's what I would do.
-dave
second chances (Score:2, Insightful)
That said, if the person who will be evaluating you if you take the promotion and fail is not the same as the current person evaluating you in your team's project, and if your new manager/supervisor/boss wouldn't be too understanding about if the new project fails (or needs someone to pin the blame on if it would fall on their shoulders otherwise), try to say "thanks, but no thanks."
Help the company (Score:1, Insightful)
Don't worry so much about how the job affects your prospects, but consider what the failing project is doing for the company.
For instance, you mention that the other team is dysfunctional and unproductive, in addition to doing less interesting work. This is what you need to analyze: why is it dysfunctional and unproductive? Is it because they're not receiving the proper support from higher up (budget, new employees, whatever)? This can be fixed, and you might be the person to do it. Perhaps it's failing because of some motivation or personnel issues (good people who simply don't work well together or perhaps even undesirable employees)? Again, you might be the person to fix this.
On the other hand, if the project is doomed to failure because they're, for instance, investigating perpetual motion (eg, some ludicrous idea pushed down by some high-up bonehead), I would explain to my supervisors why I believe the project is a misallocation of resources.
Some immediately applicable suggestions:
Posting anonymously since I don't want slashdot to know that I'm part suit....
Re:Honesty is the best policy (Score:3, Insightful)
Work can be a game of perfect information on a political level. If one person says one thing and 99 others say something else, the one person is screwed. In addition, if one person is obviously screwing over you and your team members, that's the purpose of an appraisal system. If 99 people independently say "this guy is a weasel" then the manager should be doing something. If the manager is prepared to let it slide without doing anything, then did you really want that job that much anyway? If the scheming liar *is* the manager, his project is going down the toilet anyway bcos his team won't work for him.
OK, what's the proper answer to "Does this dress make me look fat?"
The proper answer is "Yes". Usually adding "the skirt flares out at the hips where you go in", or something like that. If your GF can't stand you saying "that dress is really unflattering", then what, is she going to go out in public wearing something that looks crap? Would she rather she went out and her friends said "what *are* you wearing?!" Then you get it in the neck big-style for not being honest.
In other words, better to be honest where the consequences now may be uncomfortable but small, than to lie when the consequences later will be hideous and huge. If you've not discovered that, I'm not at all surprised you're screwing up every job and relationship you hit.
Grab.
Whos setting you up (Score:5, Insightful)
You being setup. Find out by whom and what their goals are.
First of all, can you turn this team around? It doesn't matter what anyone's goals are if you can bring the team around. In fact nothing will look better than to have low guys publicly thanking you for turning the team around. (Depending on your orginization... at one job the GUI team was turned around and everyone on the project thanked the new manager for getting them to join the team)
If you are not sure you can turn it around, now you have to reseach. (Odds are you can't be 100% sure) Make sure your research is public, if they don't see you thinking hard about this they will conclude you don't care. (You might or might not get another chance)
I'd start with the guy 4 above you, the one who you wanted to be your boss when you applied for the roll 3 above you, and see what he knows. Get 1/2 and hour with him, and chat about it. If he set you up hoping you can turn this around, then you must take it, this is a test of your abilites, failure might be expected, and he wants to see how you handle it, and how close to success you get anyway. If he knows nothing about this, at least he knows that someone is setting you up, and knows what you look like, and might even look for you.
Next talk to your potential new boss about the team. Tell him your concerns, and see if he agrees, and what he wants from you. See if he wants you to do well or not.
Find out who wants you to fail. People might or might not know about your application to the higher position, but if they know some will see you as compitition to destroy. If you are any good someone will hate you no matter what you do. You have to deal with them, part of the job, so make sure you do. Don't let politics at your level affect those below you. Don't ignore politics though, that is dangerious.
What is your family situation? If you are heavily in debt you might be better off taking easy positions that will not move you up, but at least you won't have live on unemployment when/if they cut the failing project. If your spouse is power hungry and you want to keep him/her you might be forced to jump at this opportunity.
Don't be afraid to take this position just for experience knowing you will fail. You will have the position on your resume, which might be what it takes to get the next job elsewhere.
Make your decision. Don't ignore the advice of others, but you have to decide for yourself.