Good, Affordable PC Diagnostic Software?

RebornData asks: "I do freelance computer support for small businesses, and after running into a string of hairy hardware problems, decided to buy some generic PC diagnostic software. My searches turned up numerous vendors but very few independent or reputable reviews and comparisons, so I embarked on an evaluation of my own. What I found was an industry filled with con artists, bitter feuds, and outdated products. I'm now out $400 and am wondering whether my hope of finding useful diagnostic software was a naive dream. Has anyone found something that works for you?"

"The premise of PC diagnostics software is simple: provide an easy way to test for PC hardware problems, independent of software configuration. Some hardware vendors (like Dell) provide diagnostics with their systems, but they are usually model-specific and not even all major vendors provide them. Of course there are free utilities like the well-known memtest86, but I was wanted something more comprehensive.

So I started my research, and found a variety of packages, including PC Doctor, PC Check, Microscope, PC Certify, Tufftest Pro, among many others, ranging in price from $500 to $35. Some come with associated hardware, such as loopback connectors for parallel, serial, network or USB ports, or ISA / PCI cards that will show low-level POST codes for machines that appear completely dead.

Some of the vendors provided demos, but most were severely crippled. The cheaper software tended to be outdated and incomplete, lacking support for newer hardware features. Almost all practiced high-pressure sales tactics over the phone, and I discovered that one company was actually a spinoff of another by a disgruntled former employee, resulting in a bitter, lawsuit-ridden feud.

Microscope, by Micro 2000, seemed to have the most online feedback, mostly positive, but they didn't provide a demo. After contacting their sales, they suggested that if I bought a full copy for my evaluation, I could return it in 30 days if it didn't meet my needs. Well, it turned out to be buggy and missing important features found in other, cheaper products. When I called to return the product, the salesman disclaimed all knowledge of the promise they made, and they've refused to take it back. Some further digging found that I'm not the first person to be taken in by these tactics.

I still would like to find worthwhile PC diagnostics software, but the (a) lack of independent reviews, (b) shady industry sales tactics and (c) poor performance of a 'well regarded' package leave me wondering... am I a sucker for buying into the whole concept in the first place? Can anyone point me towards a reputable vendor, or an alternative set of independent tools that will do the same job?"

They are all basically useless...

[pw700z]

Nothing beats experience and a supply of 'known good' replacement parts. I have been out of the repair and troubleshooting business for years, but I always remember being frustrated at useless memory and system testing software that could not find anything wrong with memory chips, etcs, that were obviously bad. Even most hardware units (like ram testers) were almost useless. If the POST testing didn't find anything wrong, it seemed almost nothing else would either, most of the time. If you think the part is bad, swap it out with an equivalent and see if the problem goes away.

Knoppix and memtest x86

[Anonymous Coward]

is all I ever need to test hardware.

This is a stupid ask /. and does not diserve the front page.

Not many PC maintenance people use any diagnostics

[HeX86]

And that's why... Most technicians do it by instinct and years of experience. If this peticular thing is happening, you know it could be one of x, y, or z.

That's always worked better for me than anything else. Although it would be nice to have something tell me what's wrong :)

I am looking at my sagging bookshelves that are

[i)ave]

stressing under the weight of years worth of hardware & software Bibles. If there is such a miracle as a good diagnostic program that can keep up with the daily onslaught of new hardware, protocols and standards, then I have wasted a lot of my time but wish you the best of luck on your quest.

The state of PCs

[Threni]

PC hardware is shit. Made as cheaply as possible, knocked out by the million. Nothing gets repaired - nothing is repairable. If it's broken, buy a new one.

PC software is shit. Software is still in the dark ages. No qualifications to show who has the first clue about quality, security, extensibility etc.

If you get any problem you can't fix in 30 mins, best to make sure you've backed up everything important (naturally you never need to ask anyone whether this is the case, because everybody always backs up their important data on a daily basis, right?), then just format or ghost the fucking disk. End of problem, and no tedious troubleshooting what happens when you try and get a LameSoft2000 graphics card working with a ShysterTronics printer.

diag software

[Steevee]

...the best software i've ever encountered was inside my skull....

Flawed Concept.

[Sentosus]

I have tried to find this, but the problem with getting flawed hardware to run software to detect it is flawed is just that in concept.

First of all, if it is an issue with hardware, the machine may not boot at all. If it is a ram issue, the diagnostic software may generate errors.

Second, even if it highlights an error in a configuration, it could be generated with the analysis software.

Third is that failed hardware often will not register as failed unless it is operating. Such as, a failed modem will not become noticable until it is used and then it may lock the computer up which could stop the software diagnosing the issue.

Your best bet is to use a cause and effect analysis. Then trial and error. The machine won't boot, find every possible cause of it not booting and eliminate each one as a possible cause. Continue on this until the issue is completely solved. Make a checklist for yourself so you don't forget anything.

It is how I do freelance repairs and it has proven bulletproof compared to the Voodoo Computer Repair Experts that try random things in the hope that it fixes the issue. (Install drivers, reinstall OS, Check CPU)

OT, but I have a tough hardware problem...

[Onan The Librarian]

I've taken an ailing HP Omnibook 4150 laptop to my local computer repair place where I was told (in this order) :

1. I needed a new power supply.
2. I needed a new motherboard.
3. They didn't really know what was wrong with it.

It suffers from intermittent power failure, otherwise it runs fine. I wish I knew how to locate the trouble or if I'm just wasting my time thinking this machine can be fixed. I'm loathe to take it to another repairman, I'm already out some $$ that got me no closer to a real solution. I hope this is an appropriate question to ask, 'cause I like that machine and would rather not junk it. Any civil advice will be vastly appreciated (including suggested URLs for diagnostic tools such as those mentioned in the original article). TIA!

Btw, the repair house told me that their "diagnostics" consisted of letting the machine run for a day or two. I paid them their bench fee and swore I'd never take another machine there again.

Re:Another vote for SiSoft Sandra

[Tassach]

Any diagnostic / troubleshooting software that requires that the computer boot into the operating system first is largely useless. It does nothing to help you fix a problem which is preventing the OS from booting.

Generic tools like memtestX86 are a good start, but there is a limit to what you can do with generic tools. Ultimately, you need hardware-specific tests. Hardware manufactures need to do a better job of providing diagnostic tools for the things they sell. Yeah, you can test the gross functionality of any sound card by playing music, but to do a complete test you need something designed for that specific card.

My advice

[dasunt]

Knoppix - verify the part under another OS.

Tomsrtbt - I forget if Knoppix has badblocks or not. If it doesn't, Tomsrtbt does.

memtest86 - Memory tester.

Spare HDD - good for having a clean install of windows to check things on.

Spare low-density memory.

Spare older computer for testing daughtercards.

That's about it.

Of course, sooner or later you *will* get the machine from hell with an intermediate fault that ends up locking windows for no damn good reason every so often. Then life will suck. But that's why they call it work.

Re:The state of PCs

[sleeperservice]

The parent may be modded as "Funny", but speaking as a veteran of the support wars, it's actually about as "Insightful" as you can get.

Always pay with a credit card

[Lehk228]

If you pay with a credit card and the vendor tries to screw you over you can contest the billing and return the unsatisfactory product, In fact I am in the process of cancelling an order i placed for Serif's Photoplus 7 because the site selling it never mentioned that it was old and shitty, but they were perfectly happy to tell me how bad it was when they called me asking if i wanted to pay $50-$90 to upgrade to version 8 or 9... obviously contesting the charge is a last resort but overall I feel much more confident buying software online because i know that i am not out the money untill i actually pay the credit card bill (for internet purchases there is no signature)

Re:I am looking at my sagging bookshelves that are

[Idealius]

I agree with i)ave. I am a technician for a Tech Support firm with a diagnosis program and just like other diagnosis programs, ours does not delve deep into hardware specific queries -- it goes by what Windows sees. There are several valid reasons for this. To catalog all of the custom driver interfaces that are needed when testing out the different types of hardware out there would be an immense undertaking. Another reason being Window's device interface is more than suitable to go by. Don't recode the wheel!

Magic Smoke

[Anonymous Coward]

PC diagnostics are really two-part work. Part one is to fix the PC, and part two is to convince the luser that the machine is actually fixed. That's where the diagnostic software comes in handy. Run the software, show the luser the "problem", fix the PC, and show the luser that the problem is "fixed". I've found that a piece of paper in a luser's hand is worth hours and hours of post-fix re-diagnostics because "something" has changed.

Re:I've found these useful.

[Idealius]

Uh, yeah.. No, about half our customers' problems at our Support firm are over Norton Utilities or SystemWorks, or some other Symantec product breaking and screwing up the OS. Happens daily. They don't learn anything, but how to manually uninstall a Norton Product. [symantec.com]

Re:I am looking at my sagging bookshelves that are

[Flounder]

Another reason being Window's device interface is more than suitable to go by.

However, what if the problem you are trying to diagnose is that the user can't boot into Windows? Kind of hard to access the Windows device interface when you can't get Windows running.

Re:Not many PC maintenance people use any diagnost

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest I'm not surprised that the guys that sell this software/hardware are con artists. What they sell is Snake Oil, to people who want a magic bullet. If the CPU's BIST (Built-In Self Test) and HIMEM/MEMTEST can't find a problem, some third part app isn't going to find it.

Wrong. These tests are designed to be *fast*, not *comprehensive*. A true memory tester takes a lot longer to run than the POST test, because it's a more thorough check. The POST test in particular is useless for finding most memory errors.

If you're relying on POST to diagnose memory problems then you're nothing more than an ignorant hack.

For exhaustive memory testing, Suntory Memtest86

[schmaltz]

memtest86 [memtest86.com] gives you a bootable floppy that will scan *all* RAM in a system, and turns up the most obscure memory errors. Some errors are not consistent, they only appear in transitions from one bit pattern to another, for example. Or adjacent bit cells may bias the bit in question.

That's all it does, but it's good. And it's free. One other point, systems with mismatched parts (designed for different bus speeds or timings), and overclocked systems, may generate memory errors. Since I started using memtest86, I've stopped overclocking, as every single overclocked system I've checked has shown errors under memtest86!

Re:Low Cost

[hackstraw]

If it can't get the hardware to work correctly, there must be a problem. In my experience, its difficult to tell the difference between a software and hardware problem on a windows machine because there are just strange app crashes. Whereas if there is _any_ problem with a linux machine, I assume its hardware. Also, the drivers in linux are much more verbose when they have a problem.

Re:Flawed Concept.

[crazyaxemaniac]

I wouldn't discount the usefulness of hardware diagnostic software too much. I work in a computer repair shop. More often than not the issues that come through our shop are software related.

Guess what? After we fixed the software issues the systems seem fine. We obviously can't test the systems all day. Diagnostic software has been useful for spotting bad chips on memory modules and bad sectors on HDDs.

I can't say how many times I've cleared up a spyware/virus issue on a machine only to discover it also had a bad HDD. That kind of problems only gets worse so I'm doing a service for my customers by alerting them to the problem and giving them the option to replace it.

Re:The state of PCs

[NewStarRising]

Except that the origianl post was inquiring about HARDWARE problems. No amount of re-installing will cuse a faulty peice of hardware.

Re:OT, but I have a tough hardware problem...

[grgyle]

With itermittent failures, diagnosing is often really a shot in the dark, it doesn't matter if it's a laptop, an automobile, a television, whatever. The techies you went to might not be entirely to blame for their inability to solve the problem.

The first step to diagnosing a problem is being able to reproduce and analyze the problem. It's the classic case of bring your car in, complaining about "the noise under the hood", and the mechanic can't get the car to make that noise when he's test driving. Letting your machine run for awhile doesn't sound like that bad of an idea, if an immediate cause wasn't evident. Twitchy power failures could have many causes, although the shop you went to should have at least been honest enough to admit from the beginning that they were really just guessing at solutions, and let you slide on charging you for the benchwork.

I went through a similar nightmare once when I bought a system from a custom build place. About once every two or three weeks, my machine would have a power failure, usually taking critical system files with it, forcing me to spend hours of reinstallation/formatting/etc. I took my machine back (under warranty luckily) about 6 times, and they never solved the problem. I eventually just ditched it, figured I'd drawn the lemon lottery, as it wasn't worth the hassle anymore. I never did figure out what was wrong with it.

Biggest cause of failure in old PC: Bad contacts

[Futurepower(R)]

Agreed: Try known good parts.

To prove to yourself that it really is fixed, use a memory tester, the hard disk manufacturer's disk diagnostics, and either a program that reboots an OS 20 seconds after it is loaded (on Windows XP, Wizmo [grc.com] from GRC.com and Sleep.exe from the resource kit) or, even better, some Linux or BSD build process that takes several hours.

The biggest cause of failure in an old PC: Bad contacts. Just move every card and connector 2 millimeters out and in again. The rubbing of metal to metal creates fresh contact surfaces. Renewing the contacts should be the first step in fixing any PC.

The biggest cause of real failure in a new PC: Infant failure. Components are more than 100 times more likely to fail in the first week than they are in the 100 weeks after that.

No kidding

[rs79]

I used to write diagnostic software for computer companies in the early 80s. If the computer was together enough to run my software there was not that much that could be wrong with it and very little I could find.

Keep in mind typical diagnostic sofware back then would test for things like memory not really being there (bad address or data line problem) or interrupts stuck on or not happening when they should or can't talk to the disk drive.

None of this crap really helps is you have a bad scsi cable (ouch, that was a long drawn out pig) or a bad cable or the wrong cache controller chip (ouch) or a bad power supply or wrong speed RAM any of which will cause a system to beheva erratically and in a - and this is the bad part - non repeatable way.

Back then almost every part was $8000, these days the answer to "how do I fix a flakey computer" is "buy a new one".

Re:Sounds like AIDA is on its last legs

[dipipanone]

Your interpretation is very different from mine. I read from this that they are no longer going to update AIDA16, but that they will continue to develop AIDA32, they just won't be providing free support for their free product -- other than on the discussion forums.

That doesn't sound anything like being on it's last legs. It sounds like a sensible response for dealing with support for a free product.

I hate to say it but

[Alzheimers]

...Uniformity of hardware is key to maintaining a sane corporate IT infrastructure. If every department has their own standard, it's impossible to troubleshoot Gateways, IBMs, Dells, HPs, and frankenbeasts in an 8-hour day. x86 legacy aside, there are too many variations in quality and configuration even across "compatible" systems to reliably troubleshoot issues on a daily basis.

I especially like Dell and IBM's basic troubleshooting kits. They seem to be pretty decent at working on a variety of their own machines, so one disk will support the Dimensions, Optiplexes, and Latitudes I see on a daily basis.

For more in-depth toubleshooting, a good DOS boot disk with Partition Magic is a good first step. For Win2k machines, the System Rescue CD [sysresccd.org] is vital. Especially when you need to bood from a CD (no floppy workstations), mount the NTFS partition, try to fix it, and if you fail you can mount a samba drive and backup your data all without multiple reboots.

Best utility is detective work

[phasm42]

I've worked as a technician for about five years, both on-site and in-house, and I really haven't found any good all-around utilities. Most of the diganostic programs mentioned here tend to test things that hardly ever test bad in reality, such as serial and parallel ports, timer chips, address lines, etc. The best thing to have around in case of a rather obvious failure (failure to power on, blank screen, beeping) is a collection of known good parts that can be swapped in to isolate the problem. They can also be useful in cases involving more subtle or intermittent problems, such as a CD burner that fails half the time or a computer that locks up after a few hours. Heat problems can be subtle -- I remember a friend telling me that the computer he shop didn't have heat for a while during the winter because of a bad relay, so there was a case where a computer with a slow fan worked at the shop, but didn't work when the customer took it back to their warm home. Sometimes a USB device a customer installed won't work because they plugged it in before installing drivers, and now it needs to be removed from the registry and installed again. In Windows, sometimes certain programs don't play well together, and experience will tell you what programs to avoid, and which processes in your task list don't belong. The point is, certain utilities may have their place, but no utility can replace the ability to diagnose a problem through experience and process of elimination. A memory test utility may show that you have bad memory, but experience may tell you that it's bad anyway, even when the program says it's okay. The good news is that I believe quality is improving again, after hitting a low in the K6-2 era, when cheap motherboard production proliferated, and the problem was compounded by the large increase in cooling needed for those chips (I'll never forget PC100 mainboards (yes, that was the company name, not the memory speed)). It's also pretty cheap nowadays to have spare parts on hand for quick checks.

Re:Sandra

[berzerke]

I too have seen memtest fail to find bad memory, but only once so far. (I switched out memory and since then, no problems.) Also keep in mind, that due to the way it works, memtest errors could be power supply, motherboard, or CPU related in addition to memory related.

I've also seen the hd tests fail to spot a hard drive that was bad too. I spent over a week on one of them trying to figure out why it kept having problems. Since it was in my possession, I didn't have to worry out the cleaning crew causing the problem (see this story [computerworld.com] under neat idea..)

I've come to the conclusion that there is NO test that can say if the hardware is good, only tests that can say its bad. Between memtest and knoppix (and the hd tests), I can USUALLY spot faulty hardware quickly, but every so often..GRRRR

BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but the ultimate boot CD [ultimatebootcd.com] (free!) contains lots of useful tools all on one CD. These include memtest, and the various hd manufacturer's tests.

Greatest diagnostics...

[The Spoonman]

Right between your ears. Seriously, in the last 20+ years in this industry, there's one thing I've learned: if a diag detects a problem, you've got a problem, if it doesn't, you still might. Reason being, most hardware problems are intermittent. If the hardware doesn't work at all, then you know what the problem is and diags aren't going to tell you anything new (except for some arcane proprietary result code you need to tell the tech on the line when trying to get a replacement). If it's intermittent, it's tough to narrow it down, and diags might not catch it. If it's flaky, then the moment you run the diags is the time it doesn't act flaky.

The best thing you can do is stop relying on useless diags. As you've learned, most are. Bone up on your troubleshooting skills, learn more about the hardware...

Do you know BIOS beep codes by heart? Do you know what they are? I've met very few people over the last few years who do. You don't need a POST card if you learn 'em. :)

Do you know how to write scripts? Batch files? A simple batch file that formats a drive, and fills it with data, over and over again will more often give you a good indicator as to its health than some diag.

These things are all based on "the basics" that every tech should know. Buy a copy of "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" and memorize it. There's a TON of good information on how these boxen work. If you fill your head with skills, you can always be sure to have the diags and information you need. If you need to rely too heavily on tools and such, you might not be in the right field.

Re:swapping out as a diagnosis technique

[Junior J. Junior III]

Sounds more like they failed to swap components, not that the swapping of components failed.

Re:Sandra

[Ed Avis]

For memory, there's MemTest-86 [memtest86.com]. This program hasn't failed to spot bad memory for me yet.

How would you know?

excellent (free) windows utility

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.zhangduo.com/udi.html

unknown device identifier, it will give you the PnP info on your hardware, so youll know what sound card is in there *without* having to pop the case.

& its only 800k, so you can send it to someone & have them run it

Norton

[g0bshiTe]

I have Norton Utilities, the only program on the cd worth using is WinDoc. I find that it fixes most Windows issues. Especially erronious registry entries. The program does seem to solve 80% of my Windows problems, the other 20% I am usually able to muddle through without help.

Excellent set off tools for any tech,

[the80y]

I work as a the production mananger for a midsized PC manaufacturer who also does a fair amount of refurbishing of other manufacturers sytems (30k plus units shipped in 2003) We have a need to inexpesively test hundreds of parts and units on a regular basis. The following are tools I can have any of my tech without.

The First is EBCD Emergency Boot CD

http://www.ebcd.i-am.ru/
Mirror of download http://www.simtel.net/product.php?id=61113&sekid=0 &SiteID=simtel.net

This is a program that builds an ISO out of FD images and XML based build program so you can add all your floppy based boot tools to it or use the multitude of built in tools including Memtest HD fitness utility and AIDA 16

Another excellent choice is to use Ultimate Boot Cd available at http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ all make use of freeware and shareware.

also as mentioned yesterday a WinPE disk made using Bart's PE builder is excellent for windows testing.

No diagnostics program beats your brain

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of these programs are little help in diagnosing problems with a motherboard these days. I am an A+ professional with over 3 years experience and I have yet to extensively use or see another PC Tech rely on these expensive diagnostic programs with the exception of free, downloadable tools that test your hard drive or RAM. Check out Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test, a free download, works on most brands of IDE hard drives. (www.hitachi.com) For RAM, memtestX86 ver. 3.0 is good, as well as the Windows Memory Tester (note: does not run in Windows!), which is provided by Microsoft I believe.
Beyond that, many hardware problems are simply not catchable by the programs you mentioned.
If you are having problems posting a motherboard, a PCI POST error card can be handy, as it will tell you the codes that are being written to port 80h.
Also, I'd say that most motherboard problems fall into the category of no POST or stability issues, both of which diagnostic programs will not help much. (Can't run software on a no-POST!!)
As far as Windows based "doctor" prgrams that try to find problems in Windows, they are pretty much useless. Anything that screws with the registry is dangerous as well, could possibly render your programs or Windows inoperable!

Brute Force Troubleshooting

[Pooua]

I have been in the PC service and repair field for over 15 years. I've worked with PC technicians for several companies in several states, in a wide variety of industries (some of the companies provide PC technical support to customers, but others were in-house).

It is a shame that most PC technicians don't actually diagnose problems. Instead, they guess and swap, until the system happens to work, again. They don't really know what was wrong (though they probably will claim otherwise), and they certainly don't know if they fixed the problem.

I've met several technicians who claim that modern microchips are less-sensitive to electrostatic discharge than obsolete microchips were, but the microchip industry says exactly the opposite. Most PC technicians take very little, if any, precaution against electrostatic discharge. They assume that if the component works, it isn't damaged, and they lack the skills and tools to find any real damage. Instead, they simply swap out parts if something stops working.

I can't entirely fault the PC troubleshooting industry, though. Electronics are too cheap, most of the time, for technicians to spend very much time troubleshooting them. Speed is the most important asset in the PC industry. It is better to be fast than correct, whether troubleshooting systems or writing software code or technical manuals.

That might be reasonable for PC technicians, but one could find the same attitude in other troubleshooting industries. I just took my car in for repairs, because I often had to push-start it. This after a week of repairs for various problems. In that week, the mechanics never found anything wrong with my car starting, and this last trip dedicated to that problem was no different... until the mechanics got ready to return my vehicle to me. When they tried to drive back to the parking lot, my vehicle would not start. A new starter appears to have taken care of that problem.

Doctors are the same way. It costs far too much to find the real problem, I suppose, so doctors rely on rules-of-thumb and shotgun approaches. Many diagnosis are through the process of elimination; one treatment didn't work, so they try another. Doctors probably never know exactly what is wrong with the patient, but they often get close enough for the body to heal itself, to some degree.