Working Around Bad Luck on the Resume? 698
Dodger asks: "A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped. Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff. Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume. When the companies I interview with ask about that situation I simply explain, while trying not to whine or complain. What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?"
Quick and Dirty (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, if they read slashdot, you're trouble is over (Score:5, Funny)
If anyone knew (Score:4, Funny)
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Insightful)
Say that the period of unemployment was actually you being a freelance IT consultant, then add that those brief jobs you got were consulting projects meant to be temporary.
When they ask why you don't want to be a consultant anymore, tell them that the economy is getting better and you feel like it's a good time to get back on the job market.
This will also make you look like you don't HAVE to get the job (although if you did you would certainly commit to it 100%), which rises their perception of you.
Sounds like a sleazy thing to do? well, that's real life for you...
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Funny)
Hear! Hear!
On my resume, my employment history tends to look something like this:
Everyone who interviews me simply assumes I've had continuous employment, and I see no need to disabuse them of that notion.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Informative)
I've interviewed circa a dozen people in the last couple of weeks, and I see this style much more than I used to. When I see only years in a resume, I assume it's because they're hiding something. I much prefer to see a month-based approach that's honest about gaps.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
The sole purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. You should not lie on it about anyting, but simply putting the year in which you worked at a job is not lying--its shorthand.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Insightful)
I will be excited to see you tell me where I said that.
you sound exactly like the sorts of HR weenies that are making a mess of companies large and small
Bzzzzt! Wrong. But thanks for playing.
I'm a programmer, hiring other programmers. Like most, I have gaps in my resume; some are vacations, some aren't. When I see gaps, I may ask people about them. I'm hiring in an area that was strongly affected by the boom, so it's no black mark to say, "Yeah, my startup went bust and it's been ugly out there."
What I object to is people trying to hide things from me, either in an interview or a resume. I've certainly interview people with the year-only resumes, but I've quizzed them much more closely on both dates and on the rest of their stuff. I like it better when they're honest up front, both on gaps and on everything else.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
But employers don't like resume gaps. They will want to know what you were doing in that time. Working "short-term temporary projects" sounds much better than "uuhhh... umm... looking for a job?".
Just my two cents. See you later, Space Cowboys!
Re:If anyone knew (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't recommend this unless you have quite a poker face. Job interviewers tend to smell bullshit like shit on a shoe (to paraphrase yet another movie) and often will not press the issue, they'll simply not hire you.
Now, telling the truth haven't quite worked out, I guess, so if you do decide to go with it, make sure you polish your story, iron out details ("Sorry I can't give you names, I had an NDA with my clients") and if possible, ask a friend to "proof" you.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Funny)
I'll know exactly what happens when I'm interviewing the next candidate who says this.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:4, Funny)
I had a panel interview once in this type of situation: For some reason the employer made an appointment a month out, and in the intervening time I had found and accepted a great job. I didn't cancel the interview, because hey, it gets me out of the house - and maybe it's even a better job. You never know, right?
When I walked in and found it was a panel interview, I just immediately got the idea of providing no new information. Whatever they asked, I would give a politician-style answer (e.g. one that seems like a solid answer but doesn't really say much), and then redirect the question to another one of the panelists.
So basically, any topic that was raised would "somehow" turn into a discussion (or even argument!) between two or more of the interviewers. This was like shooting fish in a barrel: There was so little challenge to it that after a while it got dull. So, to spice it up a bit, I made a (shocking!) comment: I told them I didn't appreciate being brought into a situation where they were airing their own internal issues instead of actually interviewing me. They all apologized and said they would stick to the point. After that, it became *much* harder to make them argue with each other without revealing what I was doing - but I still pulled it off a couple times.
They actually offered me the job. Idiots. I'm sure your panelists are *much* smarter...
Re:If anyone knew (Score:4, Funny)
Even better, without actually claiming anything directly, hint that you were employed as a freelance CIA operative doing top secret undercover work which didn't officially exist, and even if it did, you wouldn't be able to talk about it. They'll never be able to prove otherwise. Or even just answer every question with "I'm not at liberty do discuss that part of my life".
...just stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
In otherwords, I got lucky. Of course it didn't help that I was applying for a terrorist targeted industry (doh!), but if they can do it, so can your potential employer. Employ the parents tactics with due caution, if at all.
Re:Not sleazy, just stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
if the truth is unpalatable to them, then you don't want to work there, plain and simple. move on, find a group with some sort of spine and humanity to work with, they're out there.
people aren't machines. shit happens. the fact that you were laid off shouldn't be any where near as important as the fact that you worked on two projects, and the details about what you did while at those projects should be more important to the recruiter than the fact that you've had a few false-starts.
honestly, sometimes, i think this social/peer/collective 'thinking' about things is pathetic.
don't bend to the mob, ever!
Re:Not sleazy, just stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
Admiting that you are a failure is like admitting that they are a failure. You just go to work everyday with a smile and do things so-so... Eventually the project will fail, but you stayed late many days and you always were there to help, you just failed because you are incompetent, but they won't admit it.
I've always been excellent on my jobs and I always lost my job when I finished. Now I always EXTEND... my job by delivering not so good stuff and therefore they always need me to fix it. Also I always orgaqnize meetings to resolve issues and force people to stay in meetings even if they don't need to. I say the opposite of course, but I always ask them to participate and let them know *how important they are* to define things. The result is always poor, documents are reviewed endlessly and my job is so secure now...
Sorry guys, that's just the truth, I have a family to feed and property to buy. If being proficient and fast were profitable, that would be where I would like to be, but now I prefer the easy life of having a job for life, even if that means I have to do overtime every single day of my fuckedup life.
Doing overtime is a sign that the company is not doing the right thing. Who am I to change that? If I could sell what I do and not my time, things would be different. I can do in 15 minutes what for others takes months if not their whole lifes, but they pay me by the hour. All software engineers are replaceable, go figure where did they learn that.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, my usually successful strategy is to churn out features extremely quickly, and to make sure people know about them. I'm liable to leave holes in the code, but I try to do good design. So when people find problems, I can usually impress them by fixing them almost immediately.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Funny)
Guess he forgot to tell you the down sides to this philosophy:
1. When sliding on bullshit, you mostly go downhill.
2. You end up covered in, well, shit.
3. It's hard to find a job (or a date) when you're full of shit.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Funny)
1. Sliding on concrete is a short run before a sharp drop off, the curb.
2. Shit is easy to wash off. Scars are hard to hide.
3. You haven't done a lot of dating have you?
Just put down the job experience (Score:3, Insightful)
Interview can not cover for your resume (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interview can not cover for your resume (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a personal case study. At the peak of the most recent recession, I was applying for technical positions with several different companies, in the span of two months. Believe it or not, over half of the applications I sent rewarded me with an interview. And, my recent career experience in the last 2 years is very similiar to the author of this post.
Having close ties with several Human Resource Managers, experience in Technical Writing from college curriculum, and in general, lengthy job experience, here are important tips to remember about your resume (and the use of it):
Do not saturate your resume on a bunch of openings related to your field. Focus on fewer positions of your liking and tailor each resume to that position. Remember, quality not quantity. Include a cover letter with each one. The content of a cover letter should cover a discussion about their company, your interests relating to their products (or services), and how your experience meets (or exceeds) the qualifications necessary for that position.
Perceived "short comings" in your resume are interpreted differently by different employers. Case in point. Having a Masters in Computer Science and several years experience, I had to work in Construction for a few months to pay the bills. And, yes, in several resumes I sent towards technical positions, I put that experience on my resume. It shows responsibility and a hard work ethic. In addition, I had several short contracts related to my field. Those too were mixed in as well, when relevant. During several interviews, I had many employers spend more time discussing those jobs than more pertinent ones, and it reflected highly on me. It's a cautious, but careful, dance when you present yourself with a "spotty" resume. It will hurt you only if you have no stable work experience to present with it.
During the interview, have many, many questions. Questions which show your interest in the company, and the direction/goals they are taking for the future. Surely, during the interview, you can expect to receive tough questions related to your resume (and, especially, any perceived short-comings you may feel about it). Spend several hours beforehand, if necessary, rehearsing your answers to questions relating to such.
Most importantly, follow up each interview, immediately, with a "Thank You" letter. You should use it to clarify any questions or solidify any answers made during the interview. This letter is highly overlooked and makes you stand out amongst a swarm of fellow candidates. You are in a technical profession (I assume), and you should appear professional as well.
When an offer is made, do not be so hasty to accept it. It is easy to do so in light of this economic market. Follow the offer with a letter or phone call, thanking them for the offer, state that you are considering the position, and will give them an answer within a specified time. You are the gold which an employer seeks to add to his treasure. Not vice-a-versa. Confidence, not arrogance, will solidify your employment.
Yes! Also seek a conversation in the interview (Score:5, Insightful)
I have used a number of these principles since beying laid off in 2002 for both finding a position with a new company and once there an internal move up the chain.
One intangible that beyond this (or maybe reading between the parent poster's lines): do whatever it takes to prepare yourself for a conversation with your interviewer. Yes, this can be hard in a question-answer-question-answer type format, but figure out how you're going to weave things into a conversation. When you engage your interviewer in a conversation they can better connect with and relate to you. It also helps them visualize what you would be like on the job - most people will want to work with others they can successfully interact and collaborate with.
Yes! (Score:4, Informative)
This will look good to the potential employer - you are prepared, and you are also signalling that you are interested in finding a company that is right for you. It is also good for you, since you can often tell from the reply whether this is a good employer or not.
References (Score:4, Insightful)
Who says you can't use them? My last 3 companies don't even exist. That doesn't mean I don't have any references. Give out the names of those you worked with regardless of whether they still work there. If the prospective employer wants to verify that you actually worked there, they will call HR, not your old boss.
Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Honesty, sincerity, and trust (Score:5, Interesting)
I was asked in a whirl-wind style interview, literally "So I don't exactly understand why we are interviewing you. Your degree doesn't match the job openings". I then sincerely explained that, while my background is a dual degree in Chemistry/Chemical engineering, I've done imaging science the entire period of my employment. Threw in a few stories about projects I'd worked on, (You do have your "Problem, Action, Quantified Results" stories in your head, don't you???) and he accepted it.
Another asked about the layoffs and specifically why I was targetd. You *know* they are going to want to ask that question- be prepared to handle it. Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE! Remember that. Explain it as "We were told that seniority would count significantly during the layoff process. As I had just entered the group a year (or your case, 5 weeks) ago, when they pulled the project funding I was the newest, hence the least 'points' awarded during the deselection criteria"
Don't sound bitter- we all know you will be from the stories, and hearing 'laid off' doesn't have the stigma it once does. But dont' hide it in BS. If you present even a slightest bit, or get caught in a lie, you can kiss it goodbye. I've interviewed many a person and that is the one thing I listen for... I hear BS, you can use the resume to whipe it off the shoe.
Another way to look at it (Score:4, Insightful)
Great advice. Look at it this way -- one of the main things interviewers want to know is how you will react to adversity.
If you whine about the successive layoffs (or lie about them, or rapidly change the subject), they're going to have a pretty clear picture of what you'll do when your project hits a big snag, or the customer comes back with last minute requirements: you're going to whine to everyone (even people you don't know, apparently) and drag down the morale of your team instead of doing anything useful. I guarantee this will leave a bad taste in their mouths after the interview.
Don't get tripped up because it's not an on-the-job problem. This is just as much an opportunity to prove yourself and how you respond to serious problems (the worse the better, to some extent). Take a second to discuss what happened, and what you've been doing to get back into the game. If you were creative, or if you used your downtime to learn something new, all the better. Maybe you got dropped because you were too much of a one-trick pony... so you learned a new language, and wrote a mini webserver to practice. Tell them your plan (and make sure you've put a lot of thought into it). Be frank, crisp, logical, and upbeat.
If you had to take some strange jobs to keep food on the table, that's okay. If you're uncomfortable about it, they will be too... but if you aren't, they'll probably just like you better for being pragmatic.
[And of course, if you've been sitting there in a funk for 6 months, leeching off your girlfriend and watching TV, now's the time to move your ass, kiddo.]
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Informative)
Once you get the interview, you're qualified for the job (unless you lied), or they have some other interest in you (which might be as good/better than the job). Some people are more qualified for the job, but they might not be as personable. You'll get a job before these people every time. If you're the one getting interviews and not getting a job, you probably have a problem. It's usually that you do not act like yourself, such as putting on an image you view as confident but they'll see as arrogant.
Set up a mock interview and video tape yourself. Look at the stupid expression on your face (yes it will be stupid). Fix it. Look in the mirror. Then go over what you said in the interview. Completely scripted responses are easily noticeable and not appreciated.
There are two primary schools for the interviewer: new school and old school. Old school is more receptive to phoniness and arrogance, while new school sees that as being afraid to show yourself, and think you might not be stable. Try to judge the type the interviewer is (note that age is not a factor). Engineers and programmers are more likely to see new school (which I assume most readers will get). Every interview I've had but one has been new school. Those are better/more fun anyway!
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
As a hiring manager who has interviewed hundreds of candidates over the years, I can tell you that if I detect the slightest wiff of BS, it's game over.
Be honest, be yourself, be professional and stress your strengthes while being honest about your weaknesses if asked. Honesty will get you the job long before 'marketing' will.
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Informative)
Certainly you should present yourself in the best light possible, but that doesn't mean you exaggerate or lie.
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to work for fools, this is probably good advice. Otherwise, read on.
Since I'm hiring programmers this very week, the topic's on my mind. The people I was most likely to interview
- followed instructions: they sent the required details in the right format to the right address;
- addressed the requirements in the cover letter: some just gave a few paragraphs, and some replied inline to each item in the posting;
- were honest: when somebody told me what they did and didn't know, their honesty was a big plus.
And then in the interviews, important factors have been- asking good questions, both about our business and about the technical side;
- listening well, and demonstrating that they get what we're talking about;
- communicating clearly about what they've done and what they know;
- being willing to challenge us on some things: we don't want to hire yes men, but neither do we want people who argue for the sake of it;
- not telling us any of their previous employers' secrets: if they'll break somebody else's NDA, I'm sure they'll break ours;
- really knowing anything they put on their resume as knowing, and
- being able to walk the walk: the second round of interviews is sitting down and pair programming.
If I find out somebody is bullshitting me, they've just stepped on the fast slidewalk out of the office.Everybody has gaps in their technical knowledge, and I'm glad to work with that. It's impossible to put together a team where everybody knows everything, but if I know individual weaknesses I can make sure that at least one person is stellar in each important area. In my experience, if people lie to me about one thing, they'll lie to me about quite a lot of things.
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:5, Informative)
Very true. The folks who are saying "lie your ass off" have misunderstood the art of careful wording.
My resume lists all gaps in employment as freelance work. If anyone asks, I've done some grant writing for one non-profit (from which I have an excellent reference, and no need to mention he's known me since birth) and some desktop publishing, computer repair, and one-on-one training for various folks. All true, paid work. They don't ask if it's for friends and family, and I don't volunteer that it is.
When I was taking resume orders several times a day at Kinko's, and therefore was expected to be a cut-rate resume consultant, some of the stuff I learned (from various sources provided by the company) was:
- Only go back five jobs or fifteen years. Older experience isn't going to be considered relevant, and more than five jobs just looks... tacky. If there's something a ways back that you really, really want on there, create a section called "Other Relevant Experience" and list it there more informally.
- For short-term jobs, leave them off unless they look *really* good for some reason. For example, for two months I was a Support Engineer for a telecommunications testing equipment manufacturer, which involved phone and email support as well as writing custom scripts and conducting user training courses. I ended up quitting because I couldn't stand commuting 50 miles each way every day for $32k a year, but it's definitely the most impressive-looking technical experience I have. (Not the most useful on a day-to-day basis, but whatever.)
- Keep it to two pages. This used to be one page, until people started bouncing around jobs a lot.
- Start with either education or experience, depending on which looks better. If you have an advanced degree, or a BS from a well-regarded institution, you probably want to start with that. If you barely got your BA in English at the state uni because you were too busy playing computer games, but used to be Director of Technology for someplace, start with experience.
And this is one I picked up on my own: never, EVER put the word "sales" in your resume, unless you're looking for a sales job. I made the mistake of including "supported Corporate Accounts Manager on sales calls" on my monster.com resume and got drowned in listings for every sales job imaginable.
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:4, Insightful)
One word: (Score:5, Insightful)
No, really, just be honest like you already have been. The people interviewing you are human too, and they can understand bad luck like anyone else. Just put your best qualities far enough out there and layoffs like this shouldn't even be a factor to the interviewer.
Re:One word: (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:One word: (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:One word: (Score:5, Insightful)
If the interviewers seem like worthless fools obsessed with appearances and not concerned with getting their job done properly, lie. (Or walk out the door, if you'd like to avoid a similar mark on your resume after they fuck you over.)
If the interviewers seem like they genuinely care about getting the best applicant for the job, just tell them the truth.
Re:One word: (Score:4, Informative)
However, if you are talking to someone from Personnel of a really high level manager who's got to sign off on you -- it's a different story. These people look predominantly at negative qualifiers. If you blame anything on bad luck, the market, poor management decisions, etc they will view this as an indication that you will give up when facing challenges and you will blame it on anything but yourself. They will interpret the smallest detail of your resume or interview as a microcosm of you. You're not a can-do, team-oriented person. You tend to blame others. You can't take responsibility for a mistake.
So, I'd recommend that you figure out how to creatively deal with these gaps in the way that minimizes dishonesty but puts the best spin on the situation.
Re:One word: (Score:4, Insightful)
CowboyNeal Defense (Score:5, Funny)
In the interview (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In the interview (Score:4, Funny)
Wait. Did I say post? I meant interview. Sorry about that
Shit happens (Score:3, Interesting)
Be honest (Score:5, Informative)
You're doing fine. (Score:3, Funny)
I just needed some personal time... (Score:5, Funny)
Been there, done that.. (Score:5, Informative)
Get a job. ANY JOB. Showing you have a job indicates that you are a "go getter", willing to do what it takes. Trust me.
Step #2:
Hit the Pavement. When a job in your field opens up, even if it is a step down from your current pay grade, take it.
Step #3:
If your field is networking, start doing networks for churches/schools/etc. for free. Include it on your resume. If coding, get into an open source project. If business or law, go to hell.
Those will drastically help you reinforce the idea that you are not lazy, just unfortunate.
Still doing that, my priorities are different. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm ready to tell any interviewer exactly what I've done. There is NOTHING lazy about taking advantage of state benifits. It shows you knew where to look, took some of your tax money back the way it was supposed to be used and cared about your career. In fact, it's lazy and counterproductive to just take anyjob without first looking. It takes worlds of industry to fill out job applications, and cold call. By the time you are finished, everyone in the world should have seen your resume too. Many people will think I'm a pest, but no one can accuse me of being lazy.
This shouldn't even be a question (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, so what if a project fell flat because someone else pulled the plug? You took a chance on being part of it; sounds like a good resume item to me.
The reason you were dismissed (Score:5, Interesting)
Just don't tell them the truth... (Score:4, Funny)
Dogbert (Score:5, Funny)
Always put impressive but impossible to verify jobs on your resume.
Employer: So Mr. Dogbert, it says here that you worked as a senior spy for the CIA.
Dogbert: Yes, and I was told to kill anyone who asks for details about it.
They're dead, Jim (Score:4, Informative)
Employers want to know how to get hold of your previous management, too, and pointing out that they're also not there any more tends to help.
Simple. Be honest... (Score:5, Insightful)
-N
Re:Simple. Be honest... (Score:5, Insightful)
Creative (Score:4, Funny)
I was spending time with my family
Extended vacation
Self-education/Wanted to learn something new
I was writing a book
Home renovation/improvment
Spiritual retreat in the desert
Creating and failing with dot-com startup
Using exfoliation to remove tattoo
Hunted down Steve Bartman to "express my feelings"
Take your pick.
My Resume Looks Much Worse -- How I Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
One recruiter I talked to started the conversation saying "I know the job market recently is what's to blame for your spotty employment" and then only ten minutes later said "My client is looking for someone who doesn't jump from job to job so much," so even someone who acknowledges the reason for your problems can very quickly forget it and start thinking you're a job jumper.
So how did I solve this problem? I simply grouped all the jobs I worked for in the past 3.5 years as bullet items under a single 3.5-year job of Database Architect Consultant.
This helps a lot, because consultants are supposed to have multiple employers (it doesn't hurt that I've also done some consulting work during this time).
The problem then is that when you talk to companies, they assume you want to continue consulting. So begin the interview with "I've been doing W-2 consulting, and I really want the stability and long-term relationships I can get with a full-time job."
It's really an interesting perception that people get when they look at a resume with many short-term jobs on it. They just can't get over the fact that it may be completely not your fault and they still somehow blame you.
You need to understand this psychology and then mask that fact from them (for their own good!). Otherwise they will end up hiring some lamer who happened to work for a company that lasted a lot longer than your companies even though said lamer isn't as qualified as you.
Re:My Resume Looks Much Worse -- How I Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Just tell the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds like you're doing the right thing.
As a hiring manager in a software company let me tell you, you're situation doesn't look bad, assuming it's exactly as you tell it. If I bring someone in for an interview, and they tell me what you've been through, I'd be more likely to empathize with their situatition rather than hold it against them. So, just tell the truth.
The one thing that might be a problem is getting to the interview. You may need to do a bit of work on your cover letter to make it plain that the funding was cut rather than you losing the job because of cause.
One other thing - you may not want to include a 5 week job on your resume. Unless you gained a lot of important job experience in 5 weeks, I'd be likely to write the entire thing off. Since resume space is limited, you may want to include a former job that is more relevant to the position you are applying to.
You're already ahead of the game... (Score:5, Insightful)
What is the US obsession with gaps on your resume (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Australia this is quite common and perfectly acceptable, also in europe it's no big deal many people over there do this.
So if I lived in the US and I say I decided I didn't want to work because I had saved enough money to live on and I wanted to travel/write the american novel/sit at home and play video games/whatever, exactly why should an employer care?
Same applies for periods of unemployment, why does a gap matter?
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Interesting)
This expected work ethic is not compatible with taking extended breaks. Being out of work is one thing... being voluntarily out of work is often seen as laziness.
On the other hand, of course, such a work ethic is, generally, a common trait of all really successful people, regardless of nationality or where they live. I guess in America, most businesses want to hire people who have the drive to be successful in life. I just wish they would accept that sometimes, success oriented people also want to pause and smell the rose.
Larry
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Abundant natural resources.
2. Slavery, followed by cheap immigrant labour.
3. A large population.
4. Good education.
5. Capitalism.
6. A government willing to use its muscle (military and economic) to get its way.
Working your butt off is less important than any of these.
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Interesting)
Very simple reason. During that "gap" you might have had a job and make a complete pig's breakfast out of it. By accounting for all your time, your prospective employer has a chance to track down all your past employers and find out if you screwed up in a major way. If you have gaps all over the place, you may have just included those jobs where you didn't screw up, and left out the ones where you bankrupted the company by doing something monumentally stupid. Or you might have been in jail, rehab, or something equally unappealing to a prospective employer. So if you do choose to bum around Europe for a year, be damn sure to keep hotel and travel receipts!
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me in the US the priorities between corporate life and "lifestyle" or personal development are all out of whack and that's why even small gaps in your resume are an issue in the US but no big deal in other western countries.
Works for me every time. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Works for me every time. (Score:4, Funny)
If you have no family, go down to the morgue and claim the first unidentified body as your dear departed $RELATIVE.
Kill a family member, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
One from your family or the interviewer's?
I guess it would work either way...
The best thing to do... (Score:5, Funny)
hard to get (Score:5, Insightful)
One technique that can be applied to many job interviews is to turn the situation around and make them try to sell the job to you. If you have a history of being let go by former employers stress that it's important that your next job be with a stable, successful company and ask pointed questions about the new company. Let them try to convince you that the new company is respectable and trustworthy. Then they'll feel like they've invested something in you by convincing you.
Be honest (Score:5, Insightful)
Resume is more important (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd suggest you list the dates as... "10/2003-11/2003 (project cancelled)" to prevent the quick discard. After that, just be honest about your history and show no bitterness.
I've hired over 100 engineers. One short hop (less than 2 or 3 years) requires explaining. Two short hops get the resume tossed.
Re:Resume is more important (Score:5, Insightful)
Not for nothing, but you sound like a nightmare hiring manager, who tosses out resumes for any or no reason, and pattern matches on buzzwords they don't understand. Got any other dogmatic rules for "tossing resumes" without reading them?
don't worry (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that you were moved to CA either means you are desperate or worth a big investment. Make sure it spins good (even if it was desperation).
If the out of work periods are short enough I would take it as a good sign that you are being snapped up, not bad that you were layed off.
Don't lie. If you do anyone that has a personal reason for not liking you could possibly get HR to look into it and you could be fired for lieing on your resume.
Just remember that your against people who were likly under-employed or out of work with no short projects inbetween.
None of this is expierience (except the lieing thing) but it is what maked personal sense to me. So if someoen with actual expierence in your shoes disagrees they may be more correct then me.
Start your own company (Score:5, Interesting)
When the layoff started happening I must have gone through about 4 companies in 3 years. (Silicon valley, it was nuts here!) It even got to the point where I could "smell" when a layoff was going to occur for anyone. Sort of like how one minute all the zebra's are munchin grass, and the next minute, before the lion goes into chase mode, they all look at that one and say, "He's next to go!"
I got so sick of blurring my resume, lying, filling in the blanks, stretching out employment dates, overstating my job and depending on someone else for a paycheck that the last layoff was the last straw. I flipped my middle finger in the direction of all these guys "charging" me for doing my W-2 while they loaned themselves a mountain of company money to buy themselves a house while saying "Hey taxman, this isn't personal income, this is a "LOAN" from the company to me, haha on you"
So I started my own company. No big deal. Just go down to your city office, pay your business tax, and if you want a corporation (I went LLC) just have an agent like thecompanycompany.com fill out your paperwork with the state for about $800.
You know what you do for a living now right? Why not just offer it up to the general public with a real company. Call your old boss up and tell him you've started your own deal, and if he knows anyone looking for help. Chances are he'll hire you or pass your name around.
There was this other slashdot article a while back about going on your own. I recomend searching the archives for it.
Unemployment's high, how'd it get that way? (Score:4, Interesting)
In fact, I've actually got a copy of state unemployment form that assigns a letter code for just about every reason you can think about for letting somebody go... and my ex-employer selected "U" for "Unknown". (Chosing not to disclose the reason would have been an "N" for "No contest".) If my ex-employer's HR department can't even figure out the reason that I was let go, that's a sign that we've got a long story here.
My answer for why they can't speak to my immediate supervisor at my past job? "I have no idea where he is. From what I was told as I was leaving, it didn't seem like he was going to have the option of staying with them for much longer either. The rest of managers at the company were happy with the level of service I was providing their departments. Letting me go was not the only debatable business decision from him that his higher-ups were scratching their heads about. I've got the number for the HR exec there on the resume, he can confirm what I just told you."
Here are some tips (Score:4, Interesting)
Be honest (about downtime in your case especially)
Don't exaggerate your achievements
Stay calm, don't bounce around in your chair
Appear interested and "aware"
Don't say "yeah" or "ok" after every sentence the interviewer says
Smile
Also, I know the IT scene is tough right now, but from the interviewer's perspective, it's hard finding good people too. We typically hire 2 to 4 IT staff each year, and finding good ones is a chore. I wish I had a dollar for every DBA interview candidate I've talked to that couldn't write a simple select statement when asked to. Bear in mind, their resume statement that they were "SQL Experts", or had x years of experience with SQL Server (yes, we're a Microsoft shop).
Don't bitch about your previous employer (Score:4, Insightful)
We had to interview one job applicant who was recently laid off. He went into this long rant about how the management were incompetent, his coworkers were retards, it was all everyone else's fault, he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and everyone was just too stupid to see it, and so on. There was also a mini-version of that same rant in his resume!
This frightening outburst was prompted by a fairly unprovocative question about what he did at his previous job.
We were left in absolutely no doubt as to why he was sacked. Why would you want someone like that around, who casts blame on everyone else at the first opportunity and behind their back when under pressure?
It's about what you do when you're our of work (Score:4, Insightful)
I hire developers and I'd guess about half of the people I interview are out of work. Being laid off is often a matter of luck so that actually doesn't interest me very much. How the candidate has responded to being out of work interests me a lot. It's a chance for me to see how they have responded to a real life problem. What are they doing with their time? Do they still programme for fun? Are they keeping their existing skills honed? What are they learning to give themselves an edge?
An out of work developer who hasn't written any code for nine months is completely different from one who's putting together their own Linux distribution.
L.
Don't ask, don't tell (Score:5, Interesting)
Always be in school (Score:5, Interesting)
This also has the added benefit that it really does further your education and expand your skills.
One last point. Being in school does not imply you have to be the student. A lot of technical colleges need adjunct instructors to teach a few evening and weekend courses. Putting on your resume that you taught impresses far too many people but it works.
Getting the Interview (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget about dwelling on your interview skills - because you have obviously thought long and hard about how to approach the interview - and the advice simply is; "be honest - but not TOO honest!".
The tricky part is ensuring your application lies in the list of interviews.
Remember, an HR department might see 500+ (or even 5000+ applications!) for some positions and in some locations.
Now - picture yourself as the HR person receiving this applications. 500 cover letters with resumes attached - each one with 8 pages of information. That makes about 4500 pages to read.
Sorry - if your resume/CV is longer than a SINGLE SIDE OF A4 PAPER you most likely will NOT get an interview.
I don't care how many jobs you've had or how freaking successful you are - you need to condense ALL relevant information down to a single page!
You will (of course!) in your covering letter, say something along the lines of:
Four years ago, I was looking for work, and had professional help to get my CV down to a single side of A4 paper - and since that time, I have got interviews for every single position I have applied for. I even got to play three employers off against each other to land my current position. :)
Hope this helps.
random suggestions (Score:5, Interesting)
If you went back to work for just a short while, I'd feel free to just not mention that job, and just lump that in with the period before and after, when you were "consulting". You could mention it as an example of "projects" you did while you were otherwise-out-of-work, to demonstrate that you weren't just sitting on your ass, but being a self-motivated pro-active kinda guy.
Just a random bit of advice for anyone who (like me) was singled out to be gotten rid of (for personal illegal-in-several-states reasons, for what it's worth): find a way to "launder" your resume without actually lying (which would be just plain stucking fupid). For example, go back to school, and pick up another degree or something. (If you have no income, financial aid is often available.) Sign up for the Peace Corps or something. Then put that on a chronological resume and employers may just assume you did it on purpose.
It's not that you got laid off (Score:4, Interesting)
Another good thing to have is a real estate license. It can cover any gaps in your resumes by saying, "I worked a project for a commercial customer." They can't press you for details because that's confidential and they can't prove or disprove it. If they do want details you can be vague and say, "Their financing fell through." Which happens all the time. Best have a genuine real estate license, though. That can be expensive to get and costs money to maintain. But I find it very liberating to always have a fall back.
Say you were drinking heavily during that time... (Score:4, Funny)
That will leave more jobs for the rest of us!
Don't sweat it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Really this will only matter in cases where HR has such a mountain of resumes they're screening by any criteria they can think of (e.g. "This guy drinks Dr. Pepper and our machines only have Coke.") In this case your chances of getting to the all important interview are nearly nil anyway.
Your best bet is to network -- talk to friends and friend of friends, about places that might be considering hiring in the future.
Ask the Headhunter (Score:4, Informative)
Instead of compiling a resume, follow the advice of Ask the Headhunter [asktheheadhunter.com]'s Nick Corcadilos and create a working resume: win the job by doing the job. Check out that website for the best job hunting advice I have ever seen. Read everything you can from the site, and get his book as well. He also produces an excellent weekly newsletter by email.
Best advice ever about how to stand out from the crowd, bypass the resume/job listing sinkhole and get directly to a manager who wants to hire you.
From an employers perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
These things all promote your experience and talk a lot more about someone than what an employer can reasonably gather from the employment history.
Don't think of it as 'bad luck' (Score:5, Insightful)
The three things employers look for. (Score:4, Insightful)
Cutting through all the crap, interviews come down to just three things.
1. Do you want it?
2. Can you do it?
3. Will you fit in?
To re-introduce some of the crap...
1. Do you want it?
An employer wants to be sure you're actually interested and willing to commit to the company.
2. Can you do it?
They need to know that you are capable of doing the job they have in mind. Note that the job spec and the real job are two different things, so part of the interview process is where you help them by explaining what they're looking for (i.e. describe the job in terms of your skills and experience).
3. Will you fit in?
This is THE important one... bear in mind that assuming they've gone to the expense of getting you in for an interview you've pretty much convinced them of 1 and 2 already.
In the long term, your integration will affect your motivation to stay, your capability to do the work, and you'll also affect these factors in the other employees.
So, if the interviewer doesn't like who you appear to be, you can pretty much forget it.
However, if you've had some bum luck with employers, it just doesn't matter. If you're pissed offdisappointed because of your redundancy, it's OK to show it: it illustrates that you'd committed to a job but the management, or the board, or the economy, or an infinite number of factors outside of your control screwed things up for you; and yet, you're still fighting, covered in crap and smelling terrible, but you've not given up.
Now *that*, for an employer is a jigsaw-completing quality - determination and spirit are invaluable. Show this at an interview and your redundancy just got you your next job.
Selling Bad Luck (Score:4, Insightful)
* Remember that everyone else has had bad luck!
* Figure out how to stand out from the other hard luck cases. Highlight your involvement in the community or using your time to help your family.
* Practice your story and make sure you accentuate the positive - what you got to do, etc. Be good an answering the hard questions.
* GET REFERENCES FROM THOSE SHORT TERM EMPLOYERS!
In the end, getting a job is easy:
* Have passable resume
* Get interview
* BE ON TIME AND LOOK GOOD!
* Sell yourself and don't game people by lying or embellishing the truth
* ASK FOR THE JOB!
* FOLLOW UP!
* Did I mention, FOLLOW UP!
Just tell the truth! (Score:4, Informative)
I list it accurately and tell the truth about it if asked. That means I have job endings including a pre-IPO start-up I bailed from when I spotted the vultures circling, one I left because of lousy management, one I left because of incredibly poor IT infrastructure, some because of layoffs due to economic downturns, getting declared "redundant" after a merger, a couple of "project was cancelled", and some "project had a sudden goal change and I was no longer a good fit".
No one has been upset to see them, nor have they questioned the wisdom of my actions.
If asked about "are there any positions you left off your resume, I say "Yes, either because it was short and irrelevant just to pay bills, or because I have no wish ot EVER do it again and if it's on the resume I keep getting asked to do it". Again, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Or omit the records (Score:5, Informative)
If your referees can confirm you have the skills required for the job, you'll have a solid chance.
Re:Lie! (Score:5, Informative)
Not a smart idea. I was reading on CNN the other day that Yahoo's got a "see your background" service going up soon. (Hotjobs or something?) Evidently, there are web services out there where a potential employer can look you up and verify where you've worked etc. If that doesn't sync up with what you say in the interview/resume, then a lever is pulled and you fall through a trap door. Yahoo's service is meant to provide somebody with a means of seeing what's on their record (For a modest price...) and get it rectified if it's wrong.
Lying in the digital age is a bad idea.
Re:Lie! (Score:5, Insightful)
P.S. The above was, of couse, in jest... as I too consider myself one of those "whiney, tree-hugging liberals".
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
Re:-1 Troll, but: (Score:5, Funny)
What if you can account for most of it, barring some minor blackout periods where you wake up in the back of a hardware store, naked from the waist down lying in a pool of your own vomit? Theoretically speaking, I mean.