Changing Jobs for Job Satisfaction? 895
I-love-my-work, who is considering rejoining the IT world after a stint in business, asks: "A molecular biologist with a PhD at University of
Birmingham, in the UK, quits his lab position to become a plumber, since a plumber apparently earns twice what he currently makes (~US$42K).
How many of you would change careers if given a chance? What factors would influence the decision (money, hours, upper management, a chance to enjoy more of your life)?" What factors would make you seriously consider leaving your current career for another?
Find a job you love.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Time with my family (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?
These questions and more are definately floating around our office.
Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I changed to IT (Score:3, Insightful)
A small guideline of mine (Score:2, Insightful)
Would I? Sure, I already did! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Money and Hours! (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a garbage collector ?
What about a factory worker ?
Illusionary (Score:5, Insightful)
So chemists want to be he-man plumbers, swinging a pick and gaining satisfaction from building something tangible? Plumbers wish they could sit on their asses out of the weather and keep their fingers soft and clean on a keyboard all day. Programmers wish they could be making explosions in a chemistry lab, wearing a cool white coat and getting all the chicks!!
More enjoyment out of life (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll switch careers when I find something that will make me as happy as doing 3d work did five years ago.
Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Getting paid 1/4 for job satisfaction? Nah..
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:5, Insightful)
basically you liked it as a hobby, not as a job.
a good thing to keep in mind.
Lets see... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully if you are in science, you are doing what you do for reasons other than financial gain. Ideally, one should be doing what they are doing in science to make a difference . Really, because there are a ton of things people can do that are much easier that writing papers, doing good science and applying for grants that make much more money than do your typical scientist. Take for instance the auto mechanic who works on my neighbors BMW. That dude (mechanic) clears six figures easy. Another set of examples: Before I went to graduate school, one of my jobs was a mechanic for old Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. That was not too bad in terms of income and certainly covered the cost of tuition. The carpenter we paid to make our couch makes some pretty good money. The dudes that replaced our sewer line and driveway cleaned up to the tune of $4000 or so. So, if you are just in it for the money, go get an MBA or a plumbing license or something.
Re:I changed to IT (Score:5, Insightful)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Been there, done that (kind of) (Score:4, Insightful)
1998-2003: Commercial programmer. OK at first, but eventually I was just doing the same old stuff again and again. I was getting very bored and I think because of that, unproductive.
So now I'm an applied mathematician in bioinformatics (having studied no biology since early high school). I was earning 40% more at the previous job, but it is worth it to be doing something interesting again.
Money is nice (a friend once called it "the sincerest form of appreciation") but having new, challenging and interesting things to do is more important.
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
If not, you have not yet found a job you love.
KFG
Post-doc? Of course plumbers make more... (Score:4, Insightful)
A junior technician (bachelor's degree) can make around $50K USD here in the US. A PhD can command more as a "mere lab tech." That's IF s/he wants to continue to do science. They can get jobs reasonably easily as *shudder!* consultants. In fact, I went to seminar on how to tweak your resume (a science PhD resume, anyway) to get a job in consulting.
I seriously doubt he'll be making over $100K USD after 5 years as a plumber. With his PhD he can, if he plays his cards right.
What would I do without software? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not that I don't like software or don't like building things, but the real world of software engineering lacks the creativity and creationism I got into the field for in the first place. I do what my boss tells me to do. I follow a schedule. I spend the whole day gazing out my window, wishing I could spend the daylight hours outdoors. I feel like a factory worker.
Passion ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
But so what? Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean that you should. I've made in excess of $100,000/year as a software consultant for four years. Now I'm finishing my English degree and studying poetry. People do this sort of thing all the time and it usually comes when they're a little older and have a better idea of what matters to them in life and what gives them the energy to get up in the morning and face the day. The molecular biologist has some big bills, perhaps. Or maybe he's just a smart guy that put in a ton of work -- Ph.D.'s, after all, aren't earned in a few weekends of spare time study, at least not from a reputable school -- and then found that the reality of research is different from the intellectual stimulation of textbooks.
Do I like software? Yes, I do. I compete on TopCoder, read books about functional programming, and throw mud at SCO. But writing and literature is, simply speaking, closer to my heart. For another person it's training an ancient breed of dogs. And for yet another person it's going to Canada to commune with, well, Canadians I guess.
The fact is that, given basic education, intelligence and wherewithal, we live in a world where you don't *have* to settle for doin' what yer daddy done, or towing the line, or staying "safe" if you don't want to.
This molecular plumber guy is just searching for a reward, I guess. After a few years of the realities of a plumber, it's possible yet he may look fondly back at his days as a molecular biologist
$42k a year (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, something similar to this happened to me, minus the 42k and phd. I recently swapped careers after over 8 years as an automotive tech. I decided I was tired of going home greasy, busting my knuckles, and working out in the cold. Now I'm in school part time, and working with the same company only in the IT department. The dirtiest I get at work now is from a rabid dust bunny inside of a case or two. Needless to say I am happy of the change. Once school is completed I'll make at least twice what I did working on cars. I would have been reluctant to change had I not been able to stay with the same company. I know of many people who have their degrees in Computer Science, and cannot get a job either from the market bieng saturated or a lack of hands on experience. I am lucky enough to have the best of both worlds, job security, working at my degree, and getting hands on experience.
As for the plumber with a phd, my father always said "It doesn't matter if you make minimum wage washing dishes, as long as your happy with what you do."
Relative Hue of thisHill.Grass vs. thatHill.Grass (Score:4, Insightful)
He has since come back to working in the business world, which is why he now works for my company. Why? Well, he discovered that as an "odd job" laborer:
You have to work HARD.
You make no money.
You have no benefits.
You still have to deal with pompous, overbearing individuals who think they know, when in fact, they do not.
You do not get vacations.
Now given, YMMV, but I have found that the key to job happiness is having a good balance of expectations versus fulfillment. 3 years ago, when my expecations of employment were "I want a pool table, I want to go drinking every night with my coworkers, I want to work 80-hour weeks and be an IPO millionaire," I would have been miserable at my current job. The place is kinda corporate, after all. We have cubes, and use buzzwords, and there are "are you giving good customer service?" banners hanging up.
But now, what I want in a job includes things like vacation time, a chance to play with some fun technologies, good money, and a job that I can come in, do, and get outta here as quickly as possible. So now my job is a lot more fulfilling, partially because I found a different job, and partially because I modified my expectations.
If you are really miserable at your job, by all means, go elsewhere. I certainly did. But be prepared to take a good look at yourself and consider that part of the problem may lie with you.
I'm already doing it (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm already running low on funds and I'm trying to find a job where I can be happy and useful without having to be on call 24/7 and running around putting out fires. But my decision was worth it.
If you're in IT, now is the time to move back to Mom's house for a while to re-think your situation, go back to college, get a better/other degree and get laid more often!
Catch up on all those comic books! 'Nuff said!
Just get paid (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:5, Insightful)
find a job you like enough to do for the rest of your life, that pays well and doesn't have too long hours. Then do the stuff you love with your money and free time.
Because let's face it, there's way more stuff that's fun to do in your free time than as a job.
And if you love your job, there's a good chance you're not making enough money to do a whole lot of other stuff. (love + money + time is perfect, like + money + time is a great, easier to attain second place)
Re:I get paid to (Score:2, Insightful)
Health, time, family.... and then money. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway... he went to southamerica to close a few deals and I was running the business here. We were about 10 people. The problem was when he starting to call the customers to force payments (they were late) and ruined all the negotiations I did. Projects started to collapse and 3 of the best employees left. I tried to, but my hands were tied with the responsibiliti. Finally the stress led me to the hospital and when the company refused to pay the bill and the extra expenses I decided to quit. Money was good, but considering the chores I was doing, I deserved the money of 3 or 4 management positions.
You and your health is the most important, also take time to live your life, don't live for work. Become necessary to your company, but don't solve others work. If you feel abused, talk, if nobody listens, then it's time to give the fsk salutation to your boss. Chances are they won't support you in easy times, lesser are while you're in troubles.
My 2cents.
The US is in trouble (Score:3, Insightful)
I read most of the posts here and to summarize, we geeks are fed up to the top of our heads with the current state of affairs. Namely, corporations that don't give a damn about us. Unfortunately, most of us are indentured servants to our corporate masters at this time.
On the bright side, when the job market comes back these same corporate masters are going to wonder what hit them. Widespread walkouts, or extortion (large retention bonuses, immediate promotions/raises). If the idiot CxO's don't get a clue now, they are going to watch their companies implode as the brain drain hits them.
These sentiments mirror those of my colleagues. Our company had better get a clue too, or it won't be pretty.
Re:Where do I sign? (Score:5, Insightful)
Real Estate Agent/Sys Admin (Score:2, Insightful)
Face it. (Score:1, Insightful)
Yet.
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:5, Insightful)
But when programming (or speaking or writing) matures into becoming a tool, its spectrum of possibilities for rewarding engagement widens dramatically.
Choose your next job by its projects. (And soon.)
You like to program for yourself not someone else (Score:3, Insightful)
You dont do things that dont interest you.
Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India... (Score:2, Insightful)
Your comment was fine and all but I really have no grasp of what you were saying because its really hard to comprehend someone who doesnt use punctuation to seperate their thoughts into sentences imagine if everyone typed like this the world would go crazy
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
If we're taking an employee making $40K and looking at one for $30K, that's a big percentage drop in pay. Now if your talking $130k and looking at $120K, that's probably a person who can afford to give up their disposable income. I fall somewhere in the middle and gave up $12K recently to get a position with reasonable hours and better learning opportunity.
I'd have to say that when I first started, making money was the driving factor and giving any of it up was out of the question. Choosing the next job definitely required an increase in pay and a good work environment (not like my former position - although it was described like an ideal job). After you reach a certain level though, the job satisifaction definitely takes a bigger role.
Re:A plumber? (Score:1, Insightful)
On the other hand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, I make pretty good scratch, but what fun is the money if you never get a chance to spend it?
I've heard this from a lot of people. And certainly there are scores of people who spend too much time at work and not enough with their families. But I always remember what happened to some guy who used to work here: he came down with Alzheimer's in his 40s. I work at a scientific/engineering kind of place and, needless to say, your mind is the most important tool you have. This poor guy got struck down with a terrible disease way before his time. He had to retire. He just couldn't do the work anymore. Here's a case where doing the right thing for your family would have been to save up a big chunk of dough to support them if you died or could no longer work. Of course, he didn't know he was going to get Alzheimer's -- and certainly not at such an early age -- so he can't be blamed if he didn't save up a shitload of money "just in case."
The point I'm trying to make is that these issues are tough. No one has the "right" answer. Maybe your family is better off if you take a pay cut and have more time for them. And maybe your family is better off if you work your ass off when you're young and save up a lot of money to support them in case something happens to you. No way to know for sure. It's questions and issues like this that make life so exciting and terrifying at the same time.
GMD
Getting out of IT (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
But to answer the root question - I wouldn't change. I love what I do too much, and I think I get paid decently for it as well. I am the type of geek who spends 8 hours on the computer at work, then comes home and (to my wife's dismay) try to spend as much time as possible on the computer at home as well.
Joy (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I changed to IT (Score:3, Insightful)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:what motivates anyone? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd happily leave my job to become
..and none of that will come true. Find happiness in what you have, not what others have.
That's easy - here's my list of why I'd change (Score:2, Insightful)
-Reasonable salary compared to living situation
-More free time
-No more on-call rotation
-Simplification (fewer computers, fewer attachments, fewer obligations)
-Possibility of working outdoors
-Working for myself
If I had a second skillset, I'd probably be using it now instead of sitting at my desk.
Re:$42k a year (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you think that you have job security? People who think that they have job security are usually the first ones laid off. Write this down, and repeat it every morning when you brush your teeth: NOBODY HAS JOB SECURITY. As soon as you think that, you get slack, and forget it, your job is in India. No offense, dude, but you can't offshore auto mechanic jobs, and people will ALWAYS needs their cars fixed. IT jobs are being outsourced at an insane rate, and jobs are disappearing completely faster than you can say "IT". You're gonna be a training treadmill that's only going faster and faster. You think new cars every year is bad? Hell, at least the way an engine works stays pretty much the same year after year. In IT, get ready to learn a whole new skill set, I'd say, every 6 months. You really should think about this realistically. IT is about the least secure field for *anyone* these days, including Indians (their new jobs are moving to China and Vietnam, now)
Re:Where do I sign? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you enjoy programming, never take any job in the IT field outside of programming. When looking for an internship or a first job, never accept any system administration, product support, or, especially, testing position. Once you are in these positions and they appear on your resume, you are pigeonholed. When you send your resume to any company, they will see your experience and only consider that for you placement. For any company with an HR department, it won't matter that you aced assembly and compiler design, that you work on programming projects in your free time, or that you've memorized all three volumes of Knuth. The only thing that will matter is your previous work expereince.
Like the parennt poster, I wasted alot of time at the beginning of my career because I didn't know how the world worked. I got out in six months, but getting out required leaving the position instead of advancing in the company. I wish someone would have told me.
Good luck.
Are you sure? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think I'll be happy doing whatever so long as it pays well and I can live comfortably.
I'm not sure you've thought about this long enough. You spend almost a third of your life at your job. You'd really be happy doing ANYTHING for that third? Since another third of your life is sleeping, you're saying that you'll willing do anything for the work-third so you can enjoy yourself during your non-work-non-sleep-third. I'm not sure that's a reasonable trade. Now factor in the fact that what you do for a career can influence how much fun you have in your non-work time. Suppose you've got a degrading job. How many friends will you have? How will society judge you? How will you feel about yourself when someone at a cocktail party asks what you do for a living and you tell them what you do?
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think your career and social life are really completely separate like you seem to be implying. There's definitely a link between the two. A poor social life can make for a poor working life. A poor career can make you unable to enjoy your social life.
GMD
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I quit a job to be happy (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't kid you: It hasn't been a blissfest. And the work opportunities for someone with a BS in Comp Sci, a BFA in Digital Media, and an odd assortment of work experience are a lot more limited than I anticipated. But when I think about how I would've spent the last seven years of my life if I'd chosen the other path (i.e. wearing a tie in a cubicle ranch and still just wondering idly if could ever learn to paint), I feel a lot better about my choice.
Bullshit is the killer (against corporations) (Score:1, Insightful)
The best thing to help you do a job you love is to retain your independence. You can do this by joining a small company, or striking out with your own startup, or just consult independently.
These environments are _real_ and people behave accordingly, work is often a pleasure.
In my experience if you work hard at doing your own thing and avoid dinosaur corporations where the bullshitters hang out there is no difference between work and play. The only problem then is to avoid burning out with 'workaholism' because you like it so much you forget to do other things in your life.
It's not easy (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I would change if I got paid the same (Score:3, Insightful)
They cannot off shore plumbing, or framing. It would be sad if eventually the ability to carry cinder blocks and boards around was more valuable than the ability to code, etc.
We would be the third world labor country, and the other countries would become what we were in the 1990's.
Re:Paid? (Score:1, Insightful)
there is a good chance that your job will be
outsourced overseas one day: to China or India,
or God-knows-whichever country has the current
lowest wages.
Plumbing is not only "honest" (getting your\
hands dirty) work, but it is a job that cannot,
by it's nature, be outsourced. Go for it!
Re:Lets see... (Score:3, Insightful)
So, what I am saying is be realistic. There are easier ways to make money than science, so if making money is what you value most, then do something else.
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
As the son of a plumber who does plumbing jobs as a hobby, not as a profession, I can tell you that this is DEFINATELY NOT the first rule of plumbing. The first rule of plumbing does have to do with shit, but also involves cash.
The first rule of plumbing is this: "Your shit's my bread and butter."
I know it sounds gross, but that's the mantra in the plumbing and pipefitting biz. BTW, plumbing isn't going to be outsourced to India anytime soon. To me plumbing is a fallback career if IT jobs completely vanish from the USA. If I ever do become a plumber I am only going to work on Saturday and Sunday and charge emergency weekend rates! WHA HA HA!
Re:A plumber? (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't blame Tony Blair. It was Maggie Thatcher who decided to close all the trade schools in order to reduce income tax. And she also had the dental schools closed. So now we have a shortage of dentists in rural communities. Not forgetting a shortage of mathematics and science teachers for secondary schools.
It's not just plumbers who are earning more money than graduates. There's a story in the Edinburgh Evening News about a research scientist who discovered his salary (25K pounds) was less than the technician maintaining the Coke vending machnes(28K pounds).
Re:Find a job you love.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Or perhaps one could find a job that does not require work, and therefore come to love it ;-)
ah.... you speak of management don't you.
Re:Yes. (Score:2, Insightful)
I left that job at the start of summer and went and worked at the local general avation airport doing airplane mantainence. Mostly 100 hour inspections, replacing bad magnetos, that sort of thing, and it was a blast. Pretty good pay too, not as good as MIS work but still enough to live on. The work was much more challenging and it was nice to be able to work outside for a change. Plus the environment was so much more laid back.
At the end of the summer I left and started doing freelance web design and programming. It was nice to get away from the tech world for a summer, its a big time stress relief. That summer job was the most fun I ever had outside.
Re:What bills are necessary? (Score:2, Insightful)
I really have to ask: If you are living on wages below the poverty line, what can you afford to live in? I don't know of anyone who can manage to live on less than $10,000 a year and still manage to afford food, housing, clothing and transportation unless they team up with others in the same situation. Is this what you're doing? Also, what do you do for health care?
Re:$42k a year (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes. A PhD doesn't necessarily translate into any sort of job skill. I know people with PhD's in philosophy who are waiting tables at a bar in Iowa City. I have a friend with a PhD in English who works as a tech support slave. I quit college after 2 years for financial reasons and I make twice as much as any of 'em. I think too much emphasis has been put on education and not enough put on application. Used to be, a degree was proof that you were "smart", but anymore it's become proof that you can tell intructors what they want to hear for four or more years. Not that there aren't people who do learn usefull skills in college; it's just that it's harder to tell those from the rest of the dregs who got a degree because "everyone else is".
Re:What bills are necessary? (Score:5, Insightful)
Having a car of any kind is generally expensive; the problem isn't just the price of the car, but insurance, registration/taxes, and repairs. If you buy some crappy used car, thinking you're going to save money, you'll more than make up for it in regular repairs (depends on the car of course). And even if you never have problems, if you're under 25 the insurance is ridiculous. It's better over 25, but still a significant cost. Of course, if your alternative is the bus, you better live fairly close to everyplace you need to go because they're so slow.
Where this whole "living cheap" thing totally falls flat on its face is when you get into marriage and kids, something, statistically, most adults do at some point in their lives. Yeah, I know this is Slashdot, but I think even most people here will experience one or both of these eventually; I really doubted it too when I was in college but now that I'm pushing 30, things have changed a lot. There is simply no way you can raise kids properly on a poverty-line income. Sure, lots of people have kids and are dirt poor, but their kids are sick, in jail, etc. I've never heard anything good about raising kids while living in the ghetto.
This has nothing to do with an "ostentatious" lifestyle; families making $40k have a hard time making ends meet in this country when they have 2-3 kids ($80k in california), and the reason is the high cost of living, caused by many, many factors which could fuel several articles here.
Of course, armchair idealists will say "it's all about choices you make", but here in the real world, people are limited by the society they live in and the costs it imposes on them (you know how much it costs to visit the doctor when you don't have health insurance?).
Do what you gotta do (Score:1, Insightful)
I have been out of work for nearly a year but couldn't give a monkies as I've spent this time to develop my skills and this has paid off as I'm now working for a previous employer whom when I left I took his server off line to get his attention.
The only advice I could offer on what work you do is do what you feel is right and stick to it no matter how hard things my become as if you have a passion and the ability to do what you like then thing will all come right.
By the way I've just landed a contract to do the website for the worlds largest mall (when complete) so I know I'm not talking BS here
Re:Paid? (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm in IT, mostly software development, although I have a substantial say in project direction and architecture. I am grooming myself for more responsibility, across projects and across technologies. I love this shit, honestly.
I am paid in the $105k/yr range with spectacular benefits (everything free) and I work at a company that is more interested in me becoming more adept at technology than in me putting in 80 hrs per week. I have flexible hours, can work from home, and have a say in all major architecture decisions.
My point is that for people who really love what they're doing, more often than not there IS a "right job." It took me some time to find mine, and I'm sure this job will be a stepping stone to a position higher in this company or another, but it is possible to find a well-paying, personable, profitable company that doesn't just treat tech workers like factory employees. Love what you do, never stop studying and bettering yourself, and you'll have the world in your hand. Be a lazy, sap-sucking waste of space, and yeah, you'll probably only get "bubble" jobs that pay you only what they have to to keep selling nonexistant "expert" experience. If you don't love doing what you do, you're in the wrong career.
Changed careers and love it (Score:1, Insightful)
I left that arena in a indebted mess and went to a tax consultant to resolve my problems, found a growing field and a new career.
I actually feel as if I am helping people and make twice what I did in the dot com fever days.
I would never have looked twice at this career but really enjoy it.
My take... (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting that behind-the-scenes look at the job I thought I wanted was SO valuable! Chefs work hard (12 hour days or more, 6 days a week) and don't get paid all that much (I guess there are exceptions) - it really gave me the chance to see how good I had it as a programmer and that's what I really loved to do - to solve puzzles and write the code to solve 'em. My urges to cook are satisfied by cooking at home on a hobbyist basis.
So that's what I would say ... do some research into what you're thinking of switching to on an extra-curricular basis. Don't leave your job until you're sure ... well, that is, if you have a job. There is some truth to the adage "the grass is greener on the other side of the pasture." You don't want to find out after switching sides that the side you were on was already pretty green.
I'd also recommend a good book: What Should I Do with My Life?: The True Story of People Who Answered the Ultimate Question [barnesandnoble.com], by Po Bronson ... we've talked about it before [slashdot.org]. I've read most (if not all -- I forget) of it. It doesn't answer your questions, but it does offer some insights into people who have done similar things.
I yearn to shed my IT shackles...... (Score:2, Insightful)
I had all this time to change careers but I was a whore to my profession ( I couldnt get away from the money).
Now, in my 50s I realize what I REALLY want to do with my life and it aint in IT!
Can I be retrained? Is there enough time? Will anyone hire a 60yearold novice in a new field?
Hint - if you hate your IT job and you are under 35, then bail now! Time will slowly catch up with you and you will be stuck in a lifeless job, in a lifeless company, doing lifeless work.
Get out now!!!!
Humanity != Career (Score:2, Insightful)
If you have a creative, meaningful, satisfying job you invest in, you will get *screwed over* by people who know your commitment to quality and mission will drive you to submit to abuse. You will be exploited. You will be consumed by bureaucracy. You will fall prey to career climbers who forgot the mission but still use it to justify their actions feathering their own beds. You'll be working 80 hours a week with a few other driven people while the people in charge go home every day at 4:55. Your dedication will be perceived as a threat and you will be marginalized. You'll watch the smart commited ones you are proud to work with give up and skate one by one as the going gets tougher and tougher. You will rearrange the deck chairs while the captain heads for the iceberg.
You have three choices:
- Compromise your ethics and get rich being part of the problem.
- Work for yourself.
- Work for the money, and not in quest of riches, just enough to get by and save methodically to retire and provide for your family. Get your humanity on the weekends.
The first requires an incredible amount of luck to work. More likely than not, you'll get cocky and overextend yourself. If it does work, you'll have no soul.
The second also requires an incredible amount of luck. If you pull it off, you'll be working your butt off but you will die proud.
The third is 'the easy way' and after two careers and 20+ years working it's the way I recommend. I wish I'd been smart enough not to fall for the romance of doing what I believe in.
Twice.
What a fool I was.
Re:What bills are necessary? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about where you live, but around here it costs at least as much to rent as it does to pay a mortgage. The difference is that you're not throwing your money away with a mortgage. I certainly wouldn't consider buying a house "an orgy of consumption and debt"; it's a wise financial decision if you plan to stick around for very long.
Re:The fact that it has all but moved to India... (Score:2, Insightful)
Having your imports exceed your export is not sustainable. Having too many displaced people makes society more expensive for the remainder who have jobs - you've either got to pay welfare or hire more cops to fight the crime that starving and homeless people must eventually turn to.
It seems to take longer today for people to migrate to new jobs than the job opportunities of a first-world take to change in nature. That's a problem, even though macroeconomics suggests that it will sort itself out in the long run.
Dead money (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you explain why paying a landlord for the use of his asset (a house) is evil and stupid, whereas paying a bank for the use of their asset (a lump of capital) is clever and mature?
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If you're young, do what makes you happy (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the lesson learned? When you're young, work the job you like. You have your entire life to work jobs you hate and once you get that house, new car, wife, and children it will be tougher to leave a bad job if it pays well. When you're young and basically all you have in your life it work, make that work as enjoyable as possible. Plan for the future, but don't let that possible future ruin your present.
Re:On the other hand... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes you can get life insurance, disability insurance and health insurance to make sure your familiy is taken care of.
I know everybody hates insurance but if you get yourself covered properly it is a huge help.
Finally Someone Talking About Moving TO IT (Score:2, Insightful)
I've always enjoyed technical things, but had a business degree. I went back to school for a while and was planning to get an EE or maybe MS in computer engineering. However, with a house and family that would be a very long hard road. Wound up getting a couple of certs, taking what I could find on a help desk.
Soon I got a job in a datacenter, tending backups, monitoring systems, etc. Gradually, I got to do more interesting stuff. After about a year and a half I got a better offer elsewhere. I actually left, but my previous employer countered with a better offer to be a Sys Admin/DBA on several large Unix boxes running Enterprise Apps.
I'm making almost what I made in accounting after 2-1/2 years in the field. Yes, I know that it's no longer the hot field. Sure, I wish it was--but I was in the Oil Industry when it went in the tank, so I already knew that industries have ups and downs.
I got in this because I love it--not every aspect of my job, but I love computers and technology. My house always has 4-5 computers in it, I run servers at home, play with programming, etc. I didn't get into this field because "it's a hot field, you'll make a lot", but rather because it was a field where they would pay me to do what I would do for free.
So, my vote is with the "find something you love to do" school.
income REALLY matters! (Score:3, Insightful)
First, talk to musicians and ask them if they'd do anything differently. I have, and I've heard members of big-city symphonies talk of how the amount of practice and effort needed erodes their ability to 'enjoy' their favorite music. They make good money, at least. Talking to bar bands and others, the lifestyle gets old and the tough choices never get easier (family vs. career, commercialism vs. artistic purity, etc). On the other hand, people who love music but have a day job doing something else seem to retain that deep love for it.
Second, there's the financial side. Money matters. If not to you, then to the people who'll be collecting your rent and selling you stuff.
Rather than dwelling on satisfaction only, find balance. You mentioned plumbing: If you're ok with the technical challenges and don't mind the dirt, plumbing is good work with steady demand and strong customer incentives to speak respectfully to you. You can work long hours and REALLY make bank (I supervised one union crew where the pipefitters were getting 5x their $40/hour pay by Sunday night), or just build a strong clientele and work 9-5 with a vicious additional fee to minimize off-hours calls. Likewise, there are profitable careers that are fairly painless, no matter what your talents or inclination. I'm lucky because most of the stuff I enjoy pays well. Had I not honed in on computer work, I could have stuck with engineering, or architecture. I'd even considered being a lawyer (but hated the idea of undergoing surgery to have my conscience removed, so no go there...). Still, the sheer joy I've felt during college philosophy lectures, or literature classes could have been a compelling thing if I ignored the whole MONEY thing. Instead, I just tell myself I might swerve more toward something loveable and low-paying once I get enough invested to guarantee a cushy retirement.
There are a zillion other ways that balancing money and satisfaction seems wisest: You can work your day job and subsidize artistic urges. My wife paid for her own bronze castings for her sculpture. Without our income level, that might be beyond her ability to spend. Strangely, being an executive AND an artist seems to give her double-plus charisma: she gets bonus points at work by people that want to pal up to an artist, and her artwork sells better because these successful executives buy & display pieces. Wierd, huh? As for me, my job's projects have peaks and lulls, and the lulls let me take several hours off midday to help at my kids' school, go fishing, or whatever. Good pay, an ok job, and flexibility are a great balance, in my book. Further, our jobs' higher pay lets us travel, invest more, and indulge on things we consider important.
Last of all, I watched my dad work for years in the public sector. Slaved away for so-so pay. Projects he spearheaded are named after people that donated volunteer effort or money to support these projects. None are named after him. All the work, none of the glory. It's a little thing, but it still matters. Had he picked a more lucrative career that he liked, then been a dedicated supporter of his favorite cause, he'd have gotten more credit.
So, don't choose between money and something you LOVE. It's not black and white. Go grey. If possible, pick a choice that's more lucrative, so long as you merely LIKE it. Nothing slaps the grin back on your face after a long week like a huge paycheck, or some gift to yourself like courtside Lakers tickets. And nothing saps the grin away faster than learning the low-pay job you hoped to love isn't what you expected.
Re:Below the poverty line? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What bills are necessary? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What bills are necessary? (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely not!!! The best teachers are those who intended to go into teaching, then worked in the REAL WORLD for 10-15 years, then went back to teaching that subject. 10 years later (unless they have tenure & don't like their job) they are usually very good professors (I don't know of any High School Archaeology teachers). They know the "facts" of the subject, but they can relate them to reality. They can tell corny anecdotes about their previous jobs and how they relate to the subject, and while the students may roll their eyes at stupid jokes & whatnot, it still makes the class more fun & the concepts make more sense and can be remembered better when it is applied to real life situations. At least, this is my experience, YMMV.
Re:income REALLY matters! (Score:2, Insightful)
If you find a job that you are happy with, it will be noticed by your superiors (assuming you have them). Obtaining a job you like isn't contrary to making money, it's intrinsically related to it.