Wiring a House While It's Still Being Built? 172
digitalamish asks: "Back in 2001 Slashdot had this Ask Slashdot about wiring a new house for networking. Some of the comments in that discussion talked about running fiber vs cat5e. It's more than two year later, I'm starting to build a house, and I'd like to update this topic. So, what's the current state of people's thinking. Is good old Cat-5e still good enough, is fiber a better option? What about other options like Cat-6? Or with the state of wireless, is wiring a house even worth it any more?"
Some thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)
2) Run CONDUIT everywhere. I can't stress this enough. DO NOT PUT ANY CABLES IN PLACE WITHOUT CONDUIT!!!
3) Make sure and put conduit (empty is fine) in ceiling locations as well. You never know when you might want to install a multi-room audio system.
4) Use 3" conduit in your entertainment room. You will want high-quality audio cables for a surround sound system, and they can quickly fill up a 1" or 2" conduit.
5) Think about running your empty conduit to locations near power, so you don't have to run a bunch of extension cords.
6) Fiber is an option down the road ('cause the equipment is so damn expensive), so don't do any tight conduit turns. This is pretty easy in a 4" stud wall.
7) Run string in the conduits and tie it off on both ends. Running new cable is *really* easy pulling a new cable and string with an existing string. Repeat after me - "string is cheap".
8) Run all your conduit to a central location (probably in the basement). You'll want a nice (rack even?) open area that you can mount equipment as well as patch panels, etc. Wire ties are your friend.
Hope this helps!
Fibre? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Stick in everything you can afford (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)
Also, keep in mind the fact that insects and rodents can't seem to resist those tasty tasty wire casings. There may come a time when some segments fail inexplicably.
conduit (Score:5, Informative)
Wireless or wired? wired will always be better for security, bandwidth and robustness than wireless. Any encoding tech that is developed for wireless can be reused for wired in a better environment. The main disadvantage - installation cost - doesn't apply to your situation. Of course you should have wireless as well
Fibre or Cat 6? Cat 6 - still the best price/performance. Notice that fibre didn't take over in the last 2 years, it probably won't in the next 2 either. But put in conduit so that you can pull anything relatively easily in future. Also, since you're at a point in the building process where it's easy to do, put in twice as many potential outlets as you think you'll need. It's so easy to do now and so hard to do later. Believe me - I've done it later
Re:Stick in everything you can afford (Score:0, Informative)
Yes.
If you do, do yourself a favour, get a different colour (e.g. - white) for the wiring you intend to use for phones. Makes things a lot simpler for the "duh" factor later.
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:4, Informative)
What do you need in the next few years? Put that inside a conduit. Make sure the conduit is large enough that it'll be easy to add and/or replace cables down the road.
I think fiber doesn't like to be bent 90 degrees, so build the conduit such that it makes gradual rather than sharp corners.
Houses last a very long time relative to networking technologies, so you *will* be changing the cabling down the road. In 10, 20, or 30 years, 100T and probably fiber will be about as useful as RS232 is now.
Of course, if current trends towards wireless continue, you'll end up abandoning the cables anyway. :-)
Check your local building codes/laws!!!!!!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
TRUST ME, it is worth your time.
There was a famous (ok semi-famous) case here in Phoenix where a guy went through all the work of getting Cat5+Coax run with conduit through several rooms of his custom home over the weekend. He came back the next weekend to finish the job only to find that the drywall was up in most of the rooms and everything he installed had been removed and junked by the General Contractor.
Being just a little upset, he decided to try and sue the General Contractor to have them pay for his time and materials and to have the General Contractor hire a sub-contractor to put in everything after the house was done.
The General Contractor filed a counter-suit for the cost of time and materials to remove all of the cabling the home-owner had installed, AND for the time and materials to replace all of the studs and beams he had drilled through to install all of the conduit.
Not surprisingly the General Contractor won. Why?
Because the home-owner wasn't. The house isn't actually yours until the final papers are signed on your final walk-through of the finished home.
The funny part is that the Judge fined the soon-to-be-home-owner several thousand daollars for trespassing on private property and performing electrical work without a license etc. ON TOP OF awarding the General Contractor the damages they requested.
Bottom line? He ended up paying about $24-thousand more for his house. And the General Contractor -refused- to allow a sub-contractor to install new cabling.
PVC = Bad Idea (Score:2, Informative)
1: it is heavy
2: it likes to give off nasty fumes when burning
3: its expensive
Power (Score:5, Informative)
cat6 (Score:5, Informative)
As far as facilitating growth use metal studs on non-load bearing interior walls if you can, they have cables channels in them stock. If your past this point in the build conduit is your friend but make sure you talk to your building inspector to find out what the legal % of full limit is on conduit (for ex. %66 full). As someone else mentioned you should pull several strings with each chunk of wire so you can easily run more, just remember to run new string when pulling more cable! When you pull string it's important to bundle your wires together every 8" with the string NOT in this bundle. All to often folks run string but it runs through the middle of the bundle.
For ethernet I recomend a 110 block. [nteinc.com] Label your ethernet on BOTH ends of the cabling using something like a p touch labeler [officedirectinc.com] and be sure to label your wall jacks AND the wall field. Dont be afraid to use the same wall field for phones.
I have never done anything with running large amounts of coax or fiber so best of wishes there.
Caveat: Do not run power and signal in one conduit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see why don't put any string down the conduit; with a run as simple as your conduit, simple electrician fish tape would be able to easily run along the conduit.
Re:PVC Piping? (Score:5, Informative)
Secondly, the bend radius of small PVC fittings is so tight that pulling any moderately stiff wire will be awkward past just 2 or 3 bends. Conduit can be bent with much gentler sweeps for easier pulling and less cable damage.
The stiff blue flexible plastic conduit is ideal for this, because it automatically sweeps corners as you install it.
Handy installation hint: You can buy "cable lubricant" which makes long pulls go smoothly. Liquid hand soap works just as well.
From someone who did it for a living (Score:5, Informative)
Ignore fiber for now. Consider that CAT-6 has a reliable throughput at 1000Mbps. Cat-5e will allegedly also do 1Gbps, but CAT-6 is now almost as cheap, so I would definitely run with CAT-6. Now consider that unless you're running some sort of ludicrous colo system from your house, the most stressful load you'll put on that infrastructure is probably streaming HDTV. Over-the-air HD is ~27mbps, D-Theater (the stuff recorded on D-VHS tapes) is about 37mbps, so even at that we're talking about well over 20 simultaneous streams moving out of a central file server, assuming you have something that can sustain 1Gbps reliably. Run plenum-coated cabling, even if it isn't required in your area; again, it isn't too terribly much more expensive, but the safety issues aren't worth saving $200 on your project.
The second problem with fiber is that you won't really know what type to run or how to terminate it. Unless we're talking about doing 1000 base-FX connections for existing equipment, do you run glass or plastic fiber? Multi-mode? Perhaps 1394b? What sort of connection should you terminate it with? Without any sort of consumer equipment to even build towards, your guess about any of those questions is as good as mine or anyone else on
One other recommendation about the CAT-6 or CAT-5e : Run way more than you think you'll need. In addition to serving as POTS pairs, lots of cool, esoteric devices out there can use CAT-5 for things you might want further down the road. I've seen KVM over Cat-5 systems, video distribution over CAT-5 (essentially, feeding a single video output from, say, a DVD carousel to a crapload of non HTPC-equipped TVs), and audio distribution systems (same idea as the video, but for whole-house audio). Using CAT-5 for some of that isn't the best solution by any stretch, but if you decide 5 years down the road that you really, really want whole-house audio and decide not to go conduit-pulling, it may make your life easy. Additionally, if you decide to do a PBX-style system (they have a lot of nice benefits, and there are some cool OSS implementations), most PBXes will need to use star topology systems like an ethernet setup, rather than daisy-chained systems like most POTS will be run.
Pull some RS-232 to video source locations (ie. where you might put all your home theatre equipment), lightswitch boxes, and computer locations. X10 is some bootleg home automation equipment, but some of the serial controlled stuff isn't actually all that expensive, and setting up a home automation system is a really fun geek project.
I would also recommend that you not neglect good quality Coax layout and runs in your eagerness for CAT-5 and Fiber fun. Satellite and OTA HDTV will both be easier to setup and rearrange if coax is home-run to the same point as everything else. Use RG-6, preferably Tri- or Quad-shielded cabling. Consider devoting a large-ish closet or basement area (if your region has basements). If the HVAC guys haven't come through yet, try to get them to put an AC and return air to a closet if that's where you want to put some stuff; that nice linux firewall box, mythTV server, networking equipment, and Home theater gear (if you decide to hide it) will thank you later.
Someone else mentioned the issue of doing it yourself, and that's definitely one to be aware of. If you are buying your house from a large production builder (Pulte, David Weekley, etc.) they will not let you do any of this. You don't own that house until you close on it, and they can't risk your stuff not being up to code, or you suing further down the road. They WILL tear your work out. If you're usi
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:4, Informative)
Also, I found that by default, contractors seem use cat5 wire for phone connections. Keep in mind that 10base-T uses only 4 of the 8 strands and phones use 2. So if they forgot to wire up a room for data but did put in a phone jack you can easily convert that into a (slow) data connection and 2 phone lines.
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)
I just finished wiring up my new house before the drywall went up. So I though I'd add some tips.
Firtly, I went crazy with Cat5 and thought - I'll never use all this, but just-in-case. Well - I after living in the house a few months - I don't have enough of what I want where.
The suggestion about the cunduit is spot on - that's what I did also
9) don't forget good 'ol coax. I've always had cable and switched to sattellite for the first time after moving. The first thing the installer needed was 3 coax cables running from outside into my distribution box. How many do you think I had? 2. So I still had to make another hole in the wall. Put plenty of coax in anywhere there isn't conduit.
10) don't forget cables (or conduit) provision for IR. I had all my TiVo, cable boxes etc. in a central distribution closet. I had planned to have IR recievers wired to a single IR xmitter in that closet. What is the first thing my wife wanted after moving in? To watch a DVD in bed. Well, the DVD player was one thing that isn't in the closet (on account of needing access to put DVDs in). I had assumed just watching DVD in the living room would be fine. Nope, so now I needed a way to get composite video from the living room to the closet and out to the bedroom & to get IR from bedroom to living room). Luckily I had enough stuff in place - but only just. Make sure you run conduit to several places in rooms you use heavily. For example, to at least three walls in the living room.
11) Also, I ran conduit over the fireplace so that I can connect surrount speakers without cables going around (in the future).
12) If you're using X10 for automation, don't believe their claim of 1 signal booster per 1000sq/ft. I've had to buy 4 extra (at $99 each!).
13) Don't forget you probably want video/phone/net at convenient places along the kitchen counter tops (for web recipes, TV while making dinner (so you don't miss anything) etc.)
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)
Use a "mouse" -- a little piece of foam with a pull string attached. Force it to the other end with a shop vac. Ought to be easy unless you have some wicked elbows in the conduit, in which case you don't want to run anything high speed in it anyway.
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:5, Informative)
Careful about using 3" conduit, not to mention that you can't run it horizontally in a standard 4" wall. You are better off with multiple runs rather than one big one. Flexible PVC conduit is really nice because you don't use elbows, there are no splices, etc. Nothing to snag on and no sharp turns. Some code may require firestop putty at the ends of your condiut. Check your local building code.
Second, keep your low-voltage cable at least 4 inches away from AC wires. Code says 2" minimum, but it's better to be safe. When you need to cross an AC wire, do so at a 90 degree angle to minimize interfearance and keep far away from flourescent fixtures.
Use electricians pull string and Not standard string. It lasts longer, is very strong, and resists shreading.
Wireties are nice, but don't cinch it tight. Velcro is better.
Try and do all your runs on interior walls - it makes things easier when you don't have to deal with insulation and you don't puncture the vapor barrier. Use low-voltage boxes - these generally don't have backs to allow room for wires to get pushed back into the walls without kinking and to maintain a minimum bend radius. Leave about 18" of extra cable at each jack as a "service loop" - this is where not dealing with insulation Really helps.
Take Pictures of your walls with all the cables / wiring / plumbing before the wallboard goes up! It makes changes MUCH easier later...
Finally, check out Leviton's web site - while you don't have to use all their stuff, they have some products that make residential structured wiring easier.
Dont push the wire (Score:2, Informative)
It's far easier to push the fish through, entirely by itself, then use it to pull the wire back from the other side.
Re:Some thoughts... (Score:3, Informative)
The usual trick here is to run a new length of string along with the wires you're pulling.
not in my world (Score:3, Informative)
What this story is about is a guy who didn't bother to get along with the GC and was probably buying a spec house, not a custom build.
How we do it (Score:4, Informative)
Run 6 RG-6 quad shield cables to where the satellite dish would.should go. Think about when you want the cables to come out of the house in order to avoid eaves, etc... HDTV over satellite I hear needs 4 cables alone and running these cables after the fact is horribly ugly.
In the house run Cat 5E for phone and data. In fact use RJ-45 female plugs for both phone and data. If you do things right in the wiring closet you can switch any jack from data to telephone (and vice-versa) without needing to punch stuff down. Running non-terminated fiber would be nice but when you need it 10 years from now who knows if the cable will be useful. I've seen houses wired with old Thick Ethernet ahead of time only to find out that its useless in a Cat 5 world.
Locate your wiring closet somewhere in the center of the house and on the second floor if you have one. Put your WAP here for ideal coverage. In your wiring closet plan for some ventilation in case you are planning on putting a house server in it. A cheap bathroom fan on a timer to such the hot air out into the attic is usually enough. Avoid carpet for wiring closet as well due to static electricity. Doing a build-your-own rack is not expensive and looks nice. Just buy the rack-rails and have the framer build your opening.
If you are going high-speed via DSL have the folks wire in the DSL filter in the home run. This keeps you from putting additional DSL filters on the line which can hurt performance. Leviton makes one for about $20.
Wireless is great and should be considered during construction but it won't ever replace a physical line. Think about telephones. The cheapest hard-wired phone sounds better and clearer than the most expensive cordless phone.
And finally, try and leave it to the pro's...at least the running of the cables. What you can and cannot drill is not obvious and the builder is likely going to jack the price a bit if you want to get in there and do it yourself. Cable jockies can run it faster and cheaper than you ever could and they pay much less for cables, jacks, and tools than we do. $3,000 to $4,000 built into the price of the home gives you a stunning amount of jacks and capabilities.
100baseTX also only needs 2 pairs (Score:1, Informative)
but now the dominant standard is 100baseT4 which needs 2 pairs of cat5 or better
not sure about gigabit
Re:Central Vacuming (Score:2, Informative)
Re:100baseTX also only needs 2 pairs (Score:2, Informative)
Combo cable! (Score:3, Informative)
Honestly, I'm surprised nobody else has suggested this yet. I get a woody every time I see this stuff.
Speaking as someone who does this for a living... (Score:3, Informative)
1) Conduit, conduit, conduit
It's been said before, and I'll say it again: install conduit, and lots of it. At least 1" to each single-gang box. If you have an unfinished basement or drop ceiling, it's always easier when you can run the conduit straight down, and put a box at the bottom to act as a pull point. Pull string. String is cheap, save your money.
2) Don't overwire.
Once the conduit and string are in, installing extra cables is a trivial task. People here are saying to run 3 or 4 cables to a room even if you don't foresee using them. That's wasting money. Why drive up your capital costs unnecessarily? What if the cable specs change before you need the cable? What if you never use it? What if you want to pull in a different media, but the conduit is full of Cat5e you'll never use? String is cheap, save your money.
3) Don't clump.
Unless you are planning to have the Mother Of All Multimedia Systems, or otherwise know for a fact that you will need a dozen connectors running to one piece of furniture, resist the urge to use a two-gang box. If you do this, you will more likely than not end up running patch cables halfway around the room. Instead, put two single-gang boxes on different walls. With a good modular termination system, you should be able to fit 6 modules on a single-gang faceplate.
4) Don't use Cat5e for phones.
Cat 3 is cheaper, and more than sufficient for telephones. A 1000' box of 4-pair Cat5e costs $150 CAD. A 1000' box of Cat3 costs $50 CAD. If you haven't already decided the purpose for a cable, don't pull it. String is cheap, save your money.
5) Invest in a good modular termination system
We use Panduit [panduit.com], but go with what works for you. Avoid IBDN, they're bloated and expensive.
6) Avoid combo cable
It's a waste of money.
You may want to have the cables and conduit professionally installed, or just the conduit, or do it all yourself. I would personally recommend at least having the electrician install the conduit, but whatever you choose, make sure you specify exactly what you want, where you want it, and inspect the work before the walls go up. Particularly if you have the electrician pull the cables, some of the less reputable contractors tend to "forget" to install conduit, since they assume you won't look in the walls until it's too late. (No offence to any electricians reading, I'm sure 95% of you are good honest workers, but there are enough bad apples that it's important to see the work for yourself.)
- Adam