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The Internet Technology

ICANN to Incorporate TLDs Already In-use? 262

An anonymous reader asks: "I recently found an article at cnn.com about ICANN considering new top level domains. Some of the proposed TLDs have already been introduced by YOUCANN such as .xxx and have been available to the public at select registrars such as new.net for quite some time. If ICANN incorporates already existing TLDs how will this impact those who have already registered for domain on these TLDs? What implications does this have and how will the ramifications impact how businesses view and utilize the web?"
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ICANN to Incorporate TLDs Already In-use?

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  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:41PM (#8652574)
    Simply put, if ICANN adopts a TLD that duplicates a TLD that "unofficially" is being registered by another registration system, then we'll have a fracturing in the standards just like in the way that it's almost impossible to tell who the heavyweight boxing champion is. Whenever you have multiple self-appointed authorities, you're bound to have conflicts.

    At the technical level, most users see the domain-name world through the eyes of the DNS servers at their ISP, so in order for a new TLD to be valid for that user the ISP must honor it. However, this can be overridden by using a secondary DNS server or modifying the hosts file on the users side, so we may end up seeing a wave of malware trying to monkey with a users DNS settings so that their sponsor's regisitry becomes the first one consulted. Some of the other registrars have already resorted to distributing such software in order for their domains to be valid for anybody.

    At the legal level, an "I got here first" principle will be claimed in trademark lawsuits by the business interest behind these rogue TLD operations. That's going to be a bit of an iffy question, if trademark law really applies to an entire TLD, especially when ICANN is the generally accepted certifying body for TLDs.

    So in the end, businesses who don't want a domain name to "fall into enemy hands" are going to have to register the same domain twice, because when this dispute is finally settled, one of the two registrations will be null and void, but it'll be hard to tell which.

    Seems to me like the domain name system may get pushed over the edge on this one. It was bad enough when US businesses started to buy up top-level domains from countries that were lucky enough to have two-letter TLDs that had cute meanings to US audiences. This would even further create a "wild west" nature for domain names. ICANN's authority is downright questionable at times, and now they're about to have conflicts with pretenders to the throne.
  • This (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AnonymousCowheart ( 646429 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:45PM (#8652611)
    This really aren't new. I mean, they're new to most of the world, but there ARE alternative root servers people can use. Check out open rsc.org [open-rsc.org] they tell you how to change your name server. There was also an article at wired [wired.com] a few years ago that talked about the .biz not really being a new domain. .biz was being used on orsc, and then icann started to use it after orsc. Anyway, just don't think you don't have options.
  • New.net (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ionpro ( 34327 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:51PM (#8652658) Homepage
    *Shudder* Their software has been responsible for more screwed up computers in my (university student-serving) helpdesk then virtually any other piece of crapware. I like the idea of getting rid of ICANN, but New.Net is infinately worse.
  • by metlin ( 258108 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:52PM (#8652667) Journal
    Simply put - more confusion.

    Those who hold existing domain names are going to try and get the new ones with their domains. And cybersquatters and others are going to try and do the same thing.

    Now, the interesting question would be, if I'm a porn site for petite teens, can I legally have the domain, www.microsoft.xxx? ;-)
  • Re:Huh (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PedanticSpellingTrol ( 746300 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:53PM (#8652676)
    As far as I can understand they're running a parallel, alternate-universe DNS structure because they're fucktards.
  • DNS server in URLS? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lehk228 ( 705449 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:55PM (#8652695) Journal
    Perhapse adding the DNS group as an optional component to URLS such as

    "http://ICANN`slashdot.org"
    "http://OpenNIC`computers.geek"

    With "foo" in //foo` being defined either in the HOSTS file or some other new system file
  • Re:What the hell? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Geoffreyerffoeg ( 729040 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:56PM (#8652708)
    The ICANN has authority over domain name assignments for most top-level domains (*.com, *.net, *.org, country codes, new stuff line *.info, etc.) and has been assigned the power to create new TLDs.

    Other groups have decided they want their own TLDs, so they set up their own name servers (which resolve host names into actual computer IP addresses) with the addition of databases for, e.g., *.web, *.sex, etc. This is unnofficial but technically extremely easy.

    ICANN is thinking of asserting its given power over all registries and creating its own official databases for the currently unofficial TLDs. This can cause conflicts with people who have taken domain names with unofficial registries. The fault in my opinion lies with the unofficial registries for advertising an incompatible solution (to use these new names, you need to change your Internet connection settings), but the people who have registered will be in trouble if ICANN starts resolving these new domains and returning "no such domain" for ones that are unofficially registered (and of course vice versa).
  • Just a guess (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:58PM (#8652722)
    This is pure speculation, but my guess would be that ICANN would have no problems with launching domains that already exist on alternative registries. The reason they might do this is simple posturing. If they acknowleged that these domains already existed and refused to "step on" them, they'd be giving legitimacy to these alternate registries. While I have no problem with making room for other registries, ICANN probably does, as it appears to undercut their self-appointed position (with the help of the U.S. government) as the Internet's governing body.

    So, to answer your question, I think ICANN would happily launch these TLDs without any consideration at all that they already exist. And yes, this will create a definite conflict with those other registries, technically speaking, since two identical domains can't exist for everyone on the Internet.

    Look, this was bound to happen sooner or later, and it's going to come down to a showdown. Do we want a showdown with ICANN and the possibility of overthrowing it as the Internet's governing body? If so, this is the time to get serious about it, since anyone who is running alternative TLDs will either have to get organized and fight or get stomped into the ground. I hate to put it that way, but that's where this is going if ICANN decides to implement these new TLDs unilaterally without any regard to what's already out there.
  • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @11:59PM (#8652731) Journal
    This flood of names with very strong reasons to encourage companies to buy another domain name ("You're an adult entertainment company, but you *haven't* voluntarily gone under the .xxx TLD?" "You mean you let someone *else* buy the ford.biz domain?" etc) just reinforces my opinion that ICANN has become a whore to the name registrars. The idea of ICANN is that they make good engineering decisions for the Internet at large, not decisions based on how to maximize name registrar profits.
  • Re:Huh (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Geoffreyerffoeg ( 729040 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @12:00AM (#8652736)
    No, of course not.
    They want themselves making new TLDs and taking registration payments for it.
    They see a business opportunity and capitalize. No matter if it's a very risky business if the ones with the true rights decide to assert it (as is now happening).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @12:23AM (#8652900)
    The reality is that the only thing that makes ICANN any more "official" than any other "rogue" system is that most people use it. But that does not make it correct. Nothing says that we must use the ICANN system. As a matter of fact, it might be better if GNU came up with their own root domain name servers and give people the option to use a DNS system based upon fairness and integrity rather than simply catering to big business. Why not a DNS system that's free and open?
  • There were quite a few *real* alternate root servers, and some people even used them for a while, Alternic, our own TINC (The Internet Namespace Cooperative), and more. I helped set up one of the first alternate top level domains, the eponymous ".dot"...

    Ancient history. Back when it really looked like Network Solutions was going to end up owning the root lock, stock, and root-servers.net it was important. Now, it hardly matters. The real root of the Internet is .com.

    This awful kludge new.net is doing doesn't deserve the time it takes to laught about.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @01:06AM (#8653113)
    The people of Niue aren't seeing that money, which is why they're suing the operator of the .nu TLD
  • Finally! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by teknokracy ( 660401 ) <teknokracy.telus@net> on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @01:12AM (#8653145)
    Just make a .sex or .xxx domain and force all of the porn sites to go there. Why wouldn't they want to? Offer free transfer of domains. This way, they, and parents, can keep minors away from these materials just by having a simple app (or even something built in to IE) block .xxx/.sex domains. The best way to get rid of activities like this is to give them their own place to play. An example of this is Diablo II - cheaters had their own open battle.net servers where they could cheat, and normal law-abiding players played on the legitimate servers.
  • by minus_273 ( 174041 ) <{aaaaa} {at} {SPAM.yahoo.com}> on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @01:50AM (#8653367) Journal
    how long before someone sets up fake domains on one of these fake DNS servers then spreads a trojan (say a kegen program ) that sets this as the first DNS server in Windows networking. Initially they can have it point to the IP of the ligitimate microsoft so no one realizes then maybe one day switch the CNN, MSNBC, Foxnews etc page to "Aliens land on Mall", then have any other domain fail to connect :-p
  • by Crazen ( 615089 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @05:09AM (#8654073)
    According their ISP support page [new.net], they suggest adding stub zones. Tiscali, NetZero, Juno, Earthlink have added New.net domains to stub zones. Doesn't sound like a client only solution to me.
  • by danielsfca2 ( 696792 ) * on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @08:10AM (#8654623) Journal
    > What are you talking about? This is not a case of domain squatting.

    New.net and YOUCANN are TLD squatting.

    One is spyware. Both are moronic and not taken seriously by anyone outside of spammers and people in serious denial.

    (Disclaimer: I am not the OP.)
  • by Phreakiture ( 547094 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @09:01AM (#8654833) Homepage

    This reminds me of a situation at a former workplace.

    This workplace (a major U.S. corporation) has its own telephone network. Dialing local phone calls from the PBX was done by dialing 9-NXX-XXXX. Long distance was 8-NPA-NXX-XXXX, but calling a different facility in the corporation is 8-NXX-XXXX, where NXX in the latter case was a 3-digit code assigned by the company (ours was 639+extension, but to call from the normal phone network was 518-454+extension).

    Anyway, the corporate network took advantage of the fact that the area codes always have 0 or 1 in the middle digit, and used this to tell the two apart.

    In 1995 or so, NANPA started issuing area codes with non-0-or-1 middle digits. This hosed everything up. As I no longer work for that particular corporation, I don't know what they did about this, but while I was working there (c. 1996), a few of the exchanges became valid area codes, and had to be changed.

    Strikes me as the same basic problem.

  • Too many TLDs. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @10:17AM (#8655522)
    Three years later do any of you actually use sites with .biz, .name, .info TLDs? I mean, do you actually type one of these TLDs into your browser or To line? Or do you actually use a .com / .org / .net website that redirects or links to one of these goofy TLDs?

    Personally, I've NEVER ONCE typed a .biz, .info, .museum, .whatever domain into my browser or mail client or address book. Why do we need more useless TLDs? The only one I sort of understand is the .mobile, .m, .mobi, whatever it is they're trying to get for the wireless stuff.

    Believe me, most of these new TLDs are just not gonna get used, people cannot cope with so many arbitrary namespaces. The .org .com .net .mil + country-specific TLDs are just about enough, thanks.

    I mean, so what if you can't find a specific domain name available for you to use in your desired namespace? There's a PERFECTLY GOOD REASON why. Someobody else is using it already. That's what names are about. They IDENTIFY things.

    If you try to solve a perceived problem of diminishing name availability by piling on new namespaces, it will only cause confusion and remove meaning from names.
  • by Joe U ( 443617 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @11:15AM (#8656124) Homepage Journal
    Fake TLDs. Why are they considered fake? Because they are not included in the default install of BIND?

    Please, point out the RFC where it specifically says, "the following TLD servers MUST be used"?
  • by Uhlek ( 71945 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2004 @12:08PM (#8656804)
    TLDs have been pointless for awhile -- they're little more than money-grubbing schemes by would-be registrars.

    Check out any registration site out there now. You'll find that most people will just register all the non-ccTLDs they can whenever they register a domain name. In fact, they're ENCOURAGED to do so.

    All more TLDs do is add more options to that list so that the new central authorities for those TLDs can start raking in the cash.

    The only real solution is a total overhaul to the way web pages are addressed. Rather than a DNS-specific method, a context-sensitive model would be infinitely more effective.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

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