Suggestions for an Ergonomic Mouse?

pawul13 asks: "I've seen lots of articles and suggestions on ergonomic keyboards (and I have the excellent kinesis version, which helps tremendously), but what about mice? I'm currently experiencing a lot of pain, but only in my 'mouse' wrist. I have a semi-ergo Logitech, but it's not doing it. Does anyone have suggestions for the best ergo mouse (Trackball, optical, whatever, it doesn't matter)?" There was a similar question from January, but it may have been too limited.

Re:Well...

[hookedup]

Failing that, and you want to look uber at the same time?

May i introduce to you, the Ergonomic Vertical Mouse [keytools-e...mics.co.uk]

Comes in USB too!

Have you considered a writing tablet?

[kenthorvath]

Wacom [wacom.com] has a wonderful selection of writing tablets for various uses (web designer, artist, general use, etc...) and I have found it to be quit relaxing and natural to use, especially if you grew up using pencil and paper to do things. According to their website, it helps reduce Repetitive Stress Injury, and they have several testimonials to that effect.

Re:Right and left handed both

[Anonymous Cow herd]

Here's a crazy idea. Instead of using your index finger to operate both mouse buttons (which is what I gathered from your post) and risk bumping into the mouse wheel, use your index finger for the right mouse button (you're a lefty as well, I take it?) and your middle finger for the left. Then you don't risk bumping into the scroll wheel, since you're not moving your index finger around. Works wonders.

3M

[Tozog]

This is actually made by 3M. Its called the 3M(TM) Ergonomic Mouse, you can find it at many retailers.

http://www.3m.com/ergonomics/ergonomicmouse.jhtml [3m.com]

Comes in two size, small/medium and large.

I used one for a summer when I was an intern at SGI. It really reduces wrist pain, but its a bit "slower" and takes about 2 weeks to get used to it. Seems less precise than a regular mouse too.

A Froogle finds average price about $50.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=EM500GPS-AM&bt nG=Search+Froogle [google.com]

Bobby

Contour Designs Mouse

[stuckatwork]

Many of my co-workers use these mice from Contour Designs.

You can check them out here [contourdesign.com]

Re:A good trackball

[elmegil]

My favorite has been this one [amazon.com] (Logitech Trackman Marble FX) for a long time now. Unfortunately, Logitech no longer manufactures them, so good luck finding it. But it has an oversize ball, so you get greater precision and less strain, and the positioning of the ball is such that you can use all your fingers (except maybe the pinkie) on the ball, so you don't have one finger getting all the traffic. It's a little weird to get used to at first, because you have to use your thumb rather than index finger to double/middle click and your ring finger to right click, but it becomes natural enough over time. Any kind of trackball is going to be easier on your wrist than a mouse though....

How you use it

[DaRat]

Having a mouse that is comfortable for you is important (and highly dependent on personal preference), but how you use it is even more important. Many people end up gripping the mouse tightly, angling their hand up, and using the wrist for side to side motion too much. A light touch, letting the mouse go when not using it, and using your entire arm will help quite a bit. Also, just taking short breaks every 30 minutes to an hour will really help.

Re:Well...

[ballwall]

I started using one of these [logitech.com] years ago. It's not one that you have to somehow convince your index finger to move from side to side, and they recently increased the arch to better fit your hand at rest. Highly recommended.

Re:Always been a fan of trackballs

[MImeKillEr]

Oops. Link is wrong -- Sorry 'bout that. Was replying to a myth with an article from snopes.

The actual link to the optical trakcball is here [microsoft.com].

Re:One of those glove thingies from Minority Repor

[justDucky]

How about something from www.fingerworks.com It looks like a glorified touch pad, but i've been tempted to buy one to give me more one hand capabilities.

Re:Well...

[PainKilleR-CE]

Or if you're like me and your thumb is completely inaccurate as a pointing device (but have no problems moving your index finger side-to-side), there's this [logitech.com] or this [microsoft.com]. The latter is the one I currently use, and the former is the one I'm currently looking at, since MS hasn't released a wireless version of their trackball yet.

My recommendation is to go down to BestBuy or some other large store and check out a couple of them to see how they feel. I have pretty bad problems with carpal tunnel when I use a standard keyboard and any mouse, but with a good trackball that's the right size for my hand and the right posture I can usually use a computer as long as I need to without a problem.

I'd also add that optical trackballs do need occasional cleaning (pull the ball out and make sure there's nothing in the sensors), but that the cleaning is significantly easier to do without damagining the trackball than the pre-optical trackballs and mice.

FingerWorks iGesture no-button touchpad

[David Jao]

I know this recommendation sounds silly to many people here who hate touchpads to death, but let me finish this post before you pass judgment.

The FingerWorks iGesture [fingerworks.com] touchpad is a zero force, no button, standard USB interface mouse that has none of the annoying features of standard touchpads and is just as efficient as a standard mouse with none of the strain.

It uses different finger combinations to trigger different mouse functions such as left click, right click, drag, scroll wheel, and so on. It can sense which fingers you are using, and most importantly, it doesn't trigger mouse motion when you accidentally brush your hand against it because it can tell the difference between your fingers and your hand.

The iGesture pad is good enough to recommend even to people without wrist pain. But for anyone who actually is suffering physical strain from mouse use, it's almost a no-brainer.

(I have no relationship to FingerWorks except as a user of their products.)

Vertical Mouse

[gujju]

The other day I saw someone using a similar product to this Vertical Mouse [leftright.com]. I tried it out and it seemed pretty convenient.. Maybe it can solve your problem

Gujju

You are unique!

[bluGill]

There are more than 100 different medical problems that the lower arm/wrist/hands can have. What will solve one problem may make a different one worse. You have to find what works for you. The ideas that others have poster may help. If your case is bad enough a good doctor might be able to help too.

Some things that might help (in addition to what others have said): learn piano. Seriously, a good piano teacher will sit over you with a ruler and give you a good whack every time your poster gets off, take these habits to the computer and you better off. Note too that musicans have been facing problems like this for years (hundreds if not thousands), so if after getting the advice of your piano teacher it doesn't go away, you they can often recommend doctors who know more about this type of problem than the average doctor.

Get a big trackball and place it on the floor. Rig up some foot pedals (at least for the left button...), and train your feet to do the work. You will still need a mouse for precision work, but this can take a lot of load off your hands.

Stretch. Search the web and you will come up with a bunch of hand stretches. I find they help me, they might help you.

Get in shape. Exercise can help in surprising ways, so if you are not in shape do it.

Take a vacation. When my wrist problems got the worst, nothing was helping. After a week in the backcountry in a canoe I came back with no pain. All those tricks I was doing before prevented the problems from coming back. I needed time to heal though before they would work.

Remember, nobody here is a medical doctor. Seek professional help if you need it. If things are getting worse stop.

Re:Daily Planet

[gorgano]

I was going to say the same thing.. but sence it's already been pointed out, i'll just confirm that this does work. I used to have extream pain him my writs (right). I couldn't take it anymore and desided to try and switch it over to the left. It take a few weaks to get used to, but sence i've switched over i've had very little pain that that wrist. When i do, i just switch back to the right side for a while.

Plus, it gives you the added benfit of being able to laugh at anyone that trys to use your computer... hours of entertainment. :)

-jason

Re:Well...

[mschaef]

I'd try a couple things. Given that you have a Kinesis keyboard, if you have the Ergo (split, dished) keyboard, you can try putting one of the smaller Cirque touchpads between the two halves of the keyboard. That elimininates reaching over to the side to use the mouse (very important, see below), and also lets you use a different set of muscles to do your pointing.

Another option is to try a trackball. I have a microsoft Trackball explorer optical (think I got the name right), and that did my index fingers absolute wonders, since the trackball lets you click with the thumb (much stronger, etc.) The one problem with this is that you still end up reaching over to the side to use the pointing device. Hold that position too long, and you can end up with an overall postural imbalance since tendons and muscles get exercised unevenly on the two sides of your body. Therefore, I'd also reccomend periodically switching the side of the keyboard the trackball is on. The best trackball with which to do this are some of the Kensington models that are symmetrical about their axis, although Microsoft's trackball supposedly allows you to assign left and right click actions to buttons on the right side of their trackballs.

Other than that, be sure to take breaks often, probably more often than feels natural. If you're like me, it's way, way too easy to postpone or forget about the breaks you need to take to stay healthy. A wonderful tool, workrave [workrave.com] is a free, open source, tool that enforces breaks and pauses on Windows and Linux machines. Use it, live by it, and it will help too.

I'd also reccomend that you get in shape. Exercise and stretching can also help a great deal, and your primary form of exercise should not be holding yourself off to the side to manipulate the mouse.

Re:You are unique!

[datababe72]

Please listen to this advice to go to a doctor! bluGill is absolutely right that there are many different things that might be causing your mouse arm pain. I have an injury to the muscle in my forearm that constricts the nerve that runs from my hand up my arm. This is very different from a carpal tunnel inflammation. This difference is important because the stretches that help this condition are completely different from the stretches that help carpal tunnel.

I caused my injury doing mouse-intensive work on a poorly configured workstation (configured for a 6'5" man, not a 5'6" woman). I ignored it and then tried to fix it myself for too long. By the time I went to a doctor, the injury was permanent. It has flared up twice since then, and I know it can flare up again if I am not careful. Don't let this happen to you... flare ups occur exactly when you can't take a long vacation, because the overuse/stress caused by working on a deadline is a prime risk factor for a flare up.

So go to a doctor, find out what's wrong, and take the appropriate steps now.

BTW, I now use a trackball exclusively, and this minimizes my problems. However, this alone doesn't prevent flare ups. The last one occurred even though I was using a trackball.

In my opinion, once you have a flare up, the only thing that allows it to subside is a nice long break from using the computer. Physical therapy can help, but rest is better. Workstation/mouse changes at this point won't help.

Re:Right and left handed both

[Soul-Burn666]

First finger on left button
Second finger on middle/wheel
Third finger on right button

Takes time to get used to if you're used to 2-button mice, but this is simply the most natural way to hold it. This way you get access to all 3 buttons without moving any of the fingers at all! (except for up-down motion)

Joystick, yuck.

[beetle496]

As many, many have said: choices, changes, exercise, personal preference, lots of factors.

The 3M joystick mouse seemed like a good idea, but most of the people we had try it didn't like it. We have just started using the Evoluent Vertical Mouse [ergocube.com] and so far the feedback has been extremely positive.