The Future of Tax Software on Linux? 58
mengel asks: "So this last week, I repeated my annual ritual of
trashing my scratch partition, making a FAT filesystem on it, booting Microsoft Windows(tm),
and installing tax software to do my taxes.
I had hoped, with the advent of Xandros, and of Linspire (formerly Lindows), that one of these increasingly important commercial companies would have talked someone like Intuit, or the Tax Cut guys, into developing this years tax software against Wine, so that it would also run on Linux under Wine as well as on MSWindows. So what has to happen before the companies who write Tax Cut and TurboTax will do versions that least run under Wine, much less native Linux versions? What can we do to help make that happen?"
"Tax Preparation is the only reason I boot MSWindows anymore, and each year it gets more arduous, as soon I'm going to be forced to upgrade the MSWindows partition to XP, just as a few years ago I had to upgrade from MSWindows 3.1 to MSWindows 98 -- so in effect my tax software costs me double, because I keep getting forced to buy a newer MSWindows upgrade every 3 years or so as well as the tax software."
TurboTax Online (Score:4, Informative)
Re:TurboTax Online (Score:1)
The Federal was actually cake to do, so I did that myself, H&R called me after I submitted and told me that if I only wanted state that they would have to charge me for federal anyways.
I ended up going to a windows machine and installing the desktop TurboTax.
(I live in MA and work in CT, also had a W2 from beginning of las
Re:TurboTax Online (Score:3, Informative)
That's funny sure seemed to handle my multiple W-2's just fine this year, same as last year.
Re:TurboTax Online (Score:1)
Did you need some premium features? I filed on-line with H & R Block for $34.95. (Maryland now has it's own free web-based state filing.) No problems at all this time. (In past years there was a problem at the end with downloading the PDF of the return, where their server was too dumb to understand that, yes, I do have a PDF reader installed; this year they were smart enough to provide a "click
How to make tax time simple (Score:1)
> on my Gentoo box running Firebird/fox
Ditto. I've used TurboTax online for the past four years, always from a Linux box. Other than how the price jumped $10 from the $59.90 of last year, I have no complaints. In fact, this time around the application works without any hitches under Firebird/fox, unlike the odd occasional hitches of the past.
I've done my taxes by hand before; as others note, it's really not that hard. That said, it'd have been tough to
Re:TurboTax Online (Score:2)
I only want the final tax data going over the wires and don't want another company having all the forms data. (Of course, most of that could be reconstructed from e-Filing, etc....)
I also don't want to have some new April 15 DDoS knocking out the Internet, itself, come tax day, to stop all Internet filing.... (BTW, I got my return mid-Ma
Bah! (Score:2)
TurboTux Online (Score:5, Funny)
No need.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No need.... (Score:2, Informative)
It doesn't save any money over using the software locally that I've found so far but it has 3 distinct advantages:
1) Runs Mozilla (though you need to turn on pop-ups for that site since the entire application is in a pop-up)
2) Access from anywhere
3) I don't hav
Re:No need.... (Score:3, Informative)
For two years I have used TaxAct [taxact.com] online. This year it cost my $17.00 to file both my federal and state taxes.
Advantages:
What can we do to help make that happen? (Score:2, Funny)
I tried this (Score:4, Funny)
TaxCut for the Web (Score:4, Informative)
TuxCat For the Web (Score:1, Offtopic)
Don't forget TuxCat for the Web. [tuxcat.com]
Re:TaxCut for the Web (Score:1)
Re:TaxCut for the Web (Score:3, Insightful)
Then it's also cheaper than the stand-alone software. Problem solved.
TurboTax for the web (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:TurboTax for the web (Score:2)
the software is a crutch, and it breaks (Score:2, Insightful)
Anybody who can follow instructions like "subtract the lesser of lines 14 and 16 from line 18 and enter the result on line 21" would be better off following the hacker creed and doing it themself.
Re:the software is a crutch, and it breaks (Score:2, Interesting)
[i] It beats me why an individual taxpayer who knows anything about programming would use tax prep software.[/i]
Actually, even though I'm very good with programming, high level math, etc, I screw up small calculations like that all the time. Expense and mileage reports, everything. I'd probably goof up.
The main reason I did my taxes on line, back in late Janurary or Feburary, was so I'd get my refund faster.
Doing them online, with eFile, and Direct Deposit...I got my refund in about 12 days.
As opposed t
Re:the software is a crutch, and it breaks (Score:1)
Big refund = interest-free loan to government (Score:4, Insightful)
You're better off owing $100 or less on April 15th than overwithholding all year and then figuring out how to get that refund a few days faster.
As for the simple math required on the tax forms, what a lame excuse! Get an $18 printing calculator. Go over the numbers twice. The IRS will check your calculations and correct them anyway, and in that case you have a fifty-fifty chance of getting a reduction or increase in taxes. For small discrepancies resulting from arithmetic errors you won't get into any trouble, they'll just send a refund or a bill -- don't you think they get LOTS of those already?
If you're going to defend the big refund by saying that it's a great way to save, it's not. Set up an auto-withdraw savings plan with your bank, credit union, or U.S. Treasury in the form of savings bonds. Overwithholding is just an interest-free loan to the government, and then when the "windfall" check comes you're probably going to blow it rather than save it anyway.
Re:the software is a crutch, and it breaks (Score:4, Insightful)
Ease of use maybe? Actually following instructions is easy. But it's time consuming. TurboTax does it for you already. For a really simple return, you can be done in 2 minutes. For more complicated returns, it does the thinking and calculations for you: should you itemize? Enter in your deductions and it will determine that for you. Are your medical expenses more than 7.5% of your AGI? TurboTax will automatically determine that and enter the information for you. Do you have to pay AMT? Turbo Tax automatically calculates the AMT once all your data is in.
It's just much faster than doing it by hand. You don't have to worry about making an addition mistake. You won't make a mistake in looking up the tax owed. You can file electronically and get your refund much faster. It will automatically transfer your information to a state tax return. It is more readable than hand-written returns. You can forecast next year's taxes and print out an appropriate W4 (I did this last year. If not for unexpected income, both Federal and state would have been within $50 of what was withheld). If you have your own business, it will do your estimated taxes. It will tell you of your options with basically anything you can think of. I'll never do taxes by hand again.
Of course, if you have to buy and install Windows to do this, you don't save much time. But for a person who has a Windows machine, TurboTax (and the like) have great advantages.
Well... (Score:2)
I got $1200 more using the program than I did filling out the forms manually. I think it made a lot of this difference by transferring some elegible deductions from my wife's return to mine (as her part of the return actually got smaller). Perhaps I should have known which I could do this with, but I didn't.
Add to this that the total time to use the program
Straightforward enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Use Linux. Insist on Linux software and *buy* it when it's available.
There's no conspiracy here-- those companies do MacOS ports because Mac users make it worth their while. As long as the US desktop Linux base remains tiny and as long as most of those users can dual-boot and are willing to buy the software, what's the value for them? Especially since you know the remaining Linux core is a) going to complain that it doesn't run on Gentoo or LFS, b) berate them for not making the whole thing open-source and c) too cheap to pay for it anyway.
There is one huge upside, in that there will *never* be a good free alternative, so if a userbase exists, products will emerge.
Re:Straightforward enough (Score:1)
No!! They must give it to us for free!!! Just kidding. Just kidding. I agree with you. I'm actually trying to move away from open source software. I'm focusing more on open standards & standards compliance. But I digress...
Regarding Gentoo, there is a feature that allows us to install binary software that has no source available. You can install RealPlayer, & probably a few others. Some people will still complain, though.
I've act
Financial Incentive (Score:4, Insightful)
The companies need to believe that they will make money if they release versions for Linux. Currently, there just aren't enough users who only use Linux to encourage tax program companies to devote resources to making compatible versions available.
Also, consider the Linux culture, which generally eschews proprietary software. It's pretty much impossible for a tax preparation sw company to release its source code, so you'd have to use binaries. That could lead to compatibility problems between different variants of Linux. The thing is, if you write an application for Windows, you mostly only have to worry about writing it for two flavors of Windows: 95/2000 and XP. It's a known quantity. At this point, most companies just have to change the rules from the previous years, and can keep most of the GUI and interfaces intact.
Right now, there are some 25 million Mac users (supposedly) in the US, and there's one (TurboTax) preparation software application available to them. I'm guessing there's far fewer than 100,000 users in the US who use Linux and a Linux-based desktop exclusively in their home, and a great many of these people use the Linux desktop because they don't want to spend any money on an OS. <joke>A good portion still live in their parent's basement, and don't have much of an income to speak of.</joke> All considered, 100,000 is a very low number.
Re:Financial Incentive (Score:2)
There are two lines of Windows. The 9x line includes 95, 98 and ME. The NT line includes NT 4, 2000 and XP. 9x and NT are a completely different operating system. They both implement the Win32 API and thus run (most of) the same applications.
Right now, there are some 25 million Mac users (supposedly) in the US, and there's one (TurboTax) preparation software application available to them.
There is also TaxCut P [taxcut.com]
Re:Financial Incentive (Score:3, Informative)
Two questions: (Score:2, Insightful)
#1
I did the TurboTax software on the web. Doesn't it work under a Linux browser?
#2
Wouldn't it be easier just to have a tax preparer do them for $40, or is your time worth that little?
Re:Two questions: (Score:2)
Yes, but there are other reasons it isn't right for everybody. It all depends on your own tax circumstances. For me, in the past few years with an S corporation, various depreciating assets, etc., the dumbed-down web-based version just didn't hack it. The full offline "Turbo-Tax Business" version probably would have, but I ended up using an accountant anyway, since it was too complex.
But I no longer own a business, so ne
I am in almost the same boat. (Score:3, Informative)
I am as much a free software zealot as the next guy, as a matter of fact this is one of the few areas I would probably disagree with RMS on, I will be the first in line to purchase a tax solution for linux. - It is probably one of the last areas where there is literally NOTHING to compete with the windows platform, not even a substandard work in progress.
I understand the web based solutions, but would really prefer a standalone app if only for illogical person preference reasons.
TaxActOnline (Score:1)
I was going to actually pay the extra money for TurboTax for Mac, figuring if that was the cost of avoiding Bill's monopoly, I better put my money where my mouth is.
Then I came across TaxAct [taxact.com], which is much cheaper than either TurboTax or TaxCut. I almost caved in to spend money on the Windows version, because they let you download a free version where you only pay when you file, but I
Re:TaxActOnline (Score:2)
Actual tax software on your PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Works quite well in Mozilla.
I Have a Dream (Score:3, Interesting)
Normally, every year at tax time, I would browse on over to TurboTax.com to use TurboTax for the web, which seemed to work just fine under Linux. Unfortunatley, this year they finally decided to start denying access to users without an "accepted browser". Up until this point, I had been very happy with TurboTax for the web. I briefly considered writing a tax return preparation package for Linux, but then decided I should probably just do my taxes ASAP because it was Apr. 14.
So, I went to Google to search for "Linux tax return software", and not finding anything of worth that was free, decided to try TaxCut.com (a part of H & R Block). They had a web based version, and it seems to be working fine with Linux and Mozilla. However, I wonder how long it will be until it doesn't, and I'm reminded of my dream: to never have to use another piece of non-free (as in speech) software again, including being able to file my taxes online under Linux.
I would still seriously like to start work on tax preparation software, but I wouldn't know where to begin, and even if I did, I don't have the time. I figure, maybe I could take courses to become a certified public accountant, try to get on the inside track for accounting and tax codes, but again time is an issue.
Anyway, that's just my story; if anyone else has the gumption to actually start a tax preparation program for Linux, let me know. I may not have the time to work on it, but I'd definitely be interested in testing and donating what little time I do have to it.
Re:I Have a Dream (Score:2)
There are some classes of programs where Open Source makes little sense, and it is unlikely to attract enough people to make it worthwhile. One of those classes is the set of programs that basically are gigantic business rules databases. (Note this is as opposed to systems that ru
Re:I Have a Dream (Score:2)
For a commercial company producing tax software (like the one I work for), the only real liability is losing credibility with your customers. There aren't any penalties to the company if we (or even the user) find a bug that would cause miscalculations, except that if there are lots, people won't buy your s
Re:I Have a Dream (Score:2)
Re:Why not online? (Score:1)
If you want to e-file to get your refund faster, your already did your taxes wrong: you over-withheld. Fix your withholding and try again this year.
I used turbotax on linux, no worries (Score:2)
functionality too.
Brazilians declare taxes with Java app this year (Score:1)
Starting a project... (Score:2)
Question: why does it have to be that hard? Take it in stages, with low goals.
For next year, make a program that can fill out a 1040EZ. That should be dirt simple, and useful for a few people.
For the next year, make it able to fill out and calculate a 1040A.
For the next year, make it do a 1040 with one or two of the most common schedules. I'd recommand Schedule D for stock transactions, since several of us
Re:Starting a project... (Score:2)
Re:Starting a project... (Score:2)
Now, let's get it ported to OpenOffice!!!
Skip doing taxes yourself... (Score:2)
I think she was using TurboTax (or something that was Windows-based) but at least I (and all her customers) didn't buy or need to use TurboTax directly. Thu
The Middle Way (Score:2)
The basic logic of the 1040, schedule SE, etc. changes very little from year to year; usually all I have to do is plug in different values for standard deductions and exemptions (I
You're missing the point (Score:2)
... which is this: why should we have to buy Tax preparation software in the first place? What's wrong with our Tax system that it has to be this complex? Or if it must be complex, why doesn't the IRS (who has to cope with end results on an efile) just write a front-end client that can be distributed for free? It would have to be cheaper for the government than what they have now.
Of course that would cut into the business models of the tax preparers and tax software manufacturers, so I guess it isn't