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Software Communications

Free Software at the Local Library? 274

DoraLives asks: "I live in a small town in East Central Florida, nearly in the shadow of the launch pads at Cape Canaveral. People generally expect that a place like this would be quite technologically advanced. Unfortunately, this isn't always true, and a case in point is the local library. They have a nice collection of CD's, and you might think you'd see Free Software CD's on the rack right next to Frank Zappa, Duke Ellington, and Bach. Think again, no such thing obtains here, or in any of the other libraries hereabouts." Aside from Linux and BSD install discs, what other pieces of software might make good items for the software section in your local public library?
"I went and talked to the director of the local library about having them provide a Knoppix disk or something similar to those unfortunates, who cannot afford a high speed internet connection to download and burn their own copies. Mr. Director seemed quite unaware as to the entire concept of Free Software and asked me to provide him with a 'list of this free software,' for his review. So, as part of my research into what's available out there, I thought I'd run this one past the users of Slashdot and see what they might recommend by way of operating systems, utilities, applications, and all the rest of the free stuff that's available for download and burning, that would make good items for the shelves of a lending library.

Methinks the inhabitants of my little burg would be tickled to find out that the entire computing world is NOT owned by a corporation in Washington state. I further think that this could be a fine way to get the word, and the actual software, out to the masses. Am I right? Can Slashdot help me with Mr. Director's need for information so he can make an informed decision."
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Free Software at the Local Library?

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  • doopdy doop (Score:5, Informative)

    by insensitive claude ( 645770 ) * on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:51PM (#8887808) Journal
    Choice of titles aside, this subject has been covered [slashdot.org] before.
  • by Neil Blender ( 555885 ) <neilblender@gmail.com> on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:52PM (#8887817)
    I just put it my backpack and then make like a tree and leave.
    • In high school, I'd peel the magnetic stickers that set the alarms off out of books and crumple them up. I'd then walk by some unsuspecting stranger and surreptitiously drop the strip into their bag or umbrella. When they tried to leave all hell would break loose. Sometimes I'd put it inside one of my friend's textbook or something. I use to think they'd catch me because I'd be laughing so hard. Hilarity.
  • Why CDs? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by toxic666 ( 529648 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:54PM (#8887833)
    Why not just set up a PC with a burner, post instructions and allow people to burn to their own CDs?

    It would save the hassle of checking out a CD (like the music ones) and the software provided would, by definition, be legal to copy.
    • Re:Why CDs? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Kenja ( 541830 )
      "Why not just set up a PC with a burner, post instructions and allow people to burn to their own CDs?"

      That would let people come in and make copies of the non-free stuff.

      • That would let people come in and make copies of the non-free stuff.

        So does a copy machine, but you see plenty of those in the library.

        Putting burners in libraries shouldn't be a problem, unless a state has a particular problem... I know my school library provides cd-burners in a large number of pcs, and have seen several others that do the same. Mine just posts a warning poster on the wall telling you that you shouldn't make illegal copies of copyrighted material, thus covering their butts (just like

      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Total_Wimp ( 564548 )
        So how about a computer with large HD and "Jukebox" software that lets you burn the free software on demand, but no other software?

        TW
      • Burn from ISOs only (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Fibonacci Ceres ( 544226 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:54PM (#8888146)
        >>"Why not just set up a PC with a burner,
        >>post instructions and allow people to burn
        >>to their own CDs?"

        >That would let people come in and make
        >copies of the non-free stuff.

        Set up a box restricted to burning from ISO
        files only. Provide a simple click'n'burn
        interface and a laminated card next to the
        PC that would explain the different distros,
        number of disks needed, hardware needed and pointers to paper references both in and
        outside the library.
        The library could provide CDRs at a small
        profit to pay for upkeep on the system and
        to buy more paper references. This would be
        a great thing for a local Linux User Group to sponsor. It would create much greater public awareness of the local group, GNU/Linux and
        the Open Source movement.
        And no drone from Redmond (or anywhere else)
        could complain about software piracy.

        There's a .sig around here somewhere

        • The library could provide CDRs at a small
          profit to pay for upkeep on the system and
          to buy more paper references.


          I'm going to nitpick. Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of a lending library?

          I'm as much of a capitalist as the next guy. But the point to lending libraries is that they are free, as in beer. So all you need to borrow anything is your library card, and zero dollars. Just borrow the CD, install on your system, and bring it back.

          Lending copies and providing a cost-recovery burn
          • I'm as much of a capitalist as the next guy. But the point to lending libraries is that they are free, as in beer. So all you need to borrow anything is your library card, and zero dollars. Just borrow the CD, install on your system, and bring it back.

            Not that I disagree, but do keep in mind there are already things you can't borrow from the library. Usually reserve items can't be taken out. You have to read (watch, listen, etc.) them there or make copies. That being said, there should be no objections

        • by westlake ( 615356 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @10:36PM (#8888803)
          There are problems here:

          1 Mac and Windows users will want download privileges and access to a burner as well. That I can guarantee, particularly if the library has the only free public access broadband connection in town.

          2 A public library may not be willing or able to accept restricted donations, privately maintained kiosks, etc, especially if has has to pay for the bandwidth, documentation, maintenance, insurance, etc., needed out of it's general funds. Imagine the response of your local LUG if Microsoft took up the same plan, but with $60 billion in cash to back it up.

          3 This isn't a trivial commitment for your local Linux Users Group or one that it can easily back out of gracefully.

      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:3, Informative)

        by WhiteDragon ( 4556 ) *

        That would let people come in and make copies of the non-free stuff.

        Yes, and they have a photocoper at the library. It is not the job of the library to force patrons to obey the copyright laws. That is the job of law enforcement (in the case of criminal violation). Most libraries I have been to have big signs all over near the photocopier explaining exactly what copyright law allows to be copied, and what is forbidden. They could have similar signs at the computer for burning CDs. Alternatively, they

    • by ffa ( 104185 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:06PM (#8887913) Homepage
      this is a great idea...

      back in the late 80s, the Vancouver Public Library used to have a station where you could access a CD ROM full of all the Public Domain utilities (rememeber those days? :) for those who did not have a modem and access to a BBS.

      You can setup a special PC which has a tool that only burns selected software. We used to take our own 5.25 floppies and copy PD software, so there is no reason people cannot acquire a $0.50 CD and take home goodies.

      less maintenenance/cost this way to the library...

      -farshad
    • Give man a PC with CD burner + public acces - he may or he may not find a way to abuse it.
      Add an internet connection to the above => you're screwed.
    • Re:Why CDs? (Score:5, Informative)

      by JonBuck ( 112195 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @09:02PM (#8888210)
      Bit of a problem, here. FYI, I'm a librarian myself.

      CDs cost money. The PC costs money. Libraries don't have that kind of budget. Even if only a hundred people per year make that request, the costs would include:

      1) Media. Including bad burns that must be discarded.
      2) Computer time. Libraries often do not have state-of-the-art equipment. The computer doing the burning might not be able to do anything else while it's running.
      3) Staff time. Something that is often missed. While this could be delegated to a library assistant.

      Imagine what would happen if that number increased tenfold. We're talking thousands of dollars. It would be better for them to burn one or two sets of CDs and have them available for circulation, and simply replace them when they wear out. If a patron wants to purchase a CD copy for themselves then they would have to pay for it. Or they could do it at home.

      I can see this as more viable in academic library settings. OpenOffice and other Free Software alternatives will help students get the type of software they need to write papers, create presentations, etc.. For public libraries... well, that would be up to the individual library.
      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by really? ( 199452 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @09:16PM (#8888323)
        Good points, but ...
        1. You could sell the media. In fact you could add a couple pennies to the price and offset some of other costs.
        2. You don't need a new/fast/etc computer for this. I think a you could easily find a geek who will be happy to donate and set up his/her "second machine."
        3. Once this is set up properly, it should require little, or no, maintenance. If you really do need to get something done/changed/etc ... get in touch geek from "2" or find some other volunteer. If I walked into my local public library and saw such a setup, I would definitely enquire about helping, and I think others would do too.

        Of course, not being a librarian, I have no idea as to what kid of laws/rules/etc regulate this kind of thing.
        • Slashdotters are supposed to be evangelists for FSS. I would rather not force the library to:
          1. Sell CDs, or
          2. Dedicate a PC to copying CDs, or
          3. Expect visitors to install Linux.

          A better method is to follow AOL's business model. Provide CDs with a great label and a box that explains why you want one. Create CDs of FSS that runs on MSWindows. Let the CDs contain:
          0. Easy installer that autoruns. Check the boxes and each installer runs without much human intervention.
          1. Mozilla (browser, email)
          2. OpenOf
      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by HybridJeff ( 717521 )
        I dont really see why it shoud have to cost the library much at all. No one said that the library has to give out CDs for free, eitehr let peolple bring them their own, or sell them at a small profit to pay off the computer.

        You wouldnt exactly need a top of the line computer either, its just burning CDs. Any PC less than 5 years old should be more than enough. Try goign up to some big tech company and seeing if they could donate one of ther older machines. Its worth a shot.

        The only real cost would be th

      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by TexasDex ( 709519 )
        I understand that it would be hard, especially with budget cuts, but library patrons will understand too.

        After all there are very few libraries that do not charge 5 or 10 cents for photocopies, and my public library currently charges 25 cents for every color page that is printed. They also charge $1.00 for diskettes for patrons to save word documents made using the two word-processing only computers (which do not have internet connections).

        It is not at all unreasonable to think people might pay for su

      • Re:Why CDs? (Score:3, Interesting)

        Good points, all. Let's leave aside the problem of downloading/burning CDs for now (see below)

        What I see as the biggest problem is answering the questions that patrons might have - IOW, support. The whole idea would die if the patrons couldn't get support and tutoring in using what they had borrowed - and could freely copy.

        The only viable solution WRT to support that I can see is LUGs - but that might get to be debilitating for a lot of local LUGs in terms of time spent. Most LUG members are already
  • Gnu Win CD (Score:5, Insightful)

    by paulproteus ( 112149 ) <slashdot@[ ]eesh.org ['ash' in gap]> on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:54PM (#8887836) Homepage
    In all fairness, you should probably focus on Free Software for Windows, at least to get the project off the ground.

    You should check out the GNUWin [gnuwin.epfl.ch] CD, a CD of lots of Free software for Win32, at least for inspiration on what to give users.

    If you can make pop-in-the-drive-double-click-and-run CDs of things like OpenOffice or Mozilla Firefox (i.e., without installing), those would be great for demos. Perhaps an OpenOffice.org 2-CD set: One demo disc, one install CD. That way people could try it and realize how much they want it. :-)

    Also, consider pointing them to a good online support forum. It makes a lot of sense to have your own user-support service for your little project, or for others like it. That way, you can say, "Let me just drive over." A PhpBB setup would do fine for that.
    • Re:Gnu Win CD (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ttldkns ( 737309 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:05PM (#8887906) Homepage
      Dont forget to have a paper CD sleeve explaining in very simple terms what to do.

      Also a label of "free software" could give the image to the regular library goer of inferior quality as sowtware is (for them) associated with cost. A more subtle title such as "public software" is also more accurate and is something that follows logically in a public library.
    • Re:Gnu Win CD (Score:5, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:12PM (#8887936)
      There's also The Open CD [sunsite.dk] which is a similar project with the same purpose... point-and-click installs of several useful apps.
      • Re:Gnu Win CD (Score:3, Interesting)

        by AlexDV ( 759799 )
        I work in a small library as a clerk/computer tech, and I'm currently trying to some copies of The OpenCD into our collection. I still have to run it by our director, but hopefully we'll have a good collection of Open Source software available by the end of summer. A lot of our patrons are students who come in to type up reports. If I had to guess, most of them probably have computers at home, but might not have any good word processing software. OpenOffice would probably work just as well for them as MS Of
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:54PM (#8887837)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Windows open source software can be great, so check out the The Open CD [sunsite.dk]. It includes such wonderful things as (in type-of-application order):
    OpenOffice.org, AbiWord, GIMP
    Mozilla, FileZilla, TightVNC, WinHTTrack, PuTTY
    Audacity, CDex, Crack Attack!, Sokoban YASC, Celestia, Really Slick Screensavers

    7-Zip, SciTE, WinPT, NetTime
    All of that would be great. Maybe even print up a little intro booklet to help the user in deciding what to install.
    • Most library users are windows users...

      You are right, this is probably the first we should change. I would suggest Debian GNU/Linux [debian.org] for starters and Debian GNU/Hurd [debian.org] for people willing to experiment and learn more. Next steps, as I have already mentioned, could be EROS [eros-os.org] and OpenBSD [openbsd.org] for systems less popular but extremely reliable and secure. I wonder which operating systems would other Slashdotters suggest.

  • Licensing (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:55PM (#8887844)
    I doubt many public libraries can afford the $699 license fee required for Linux.
    • by FattMattP ( 86246 )
      That doesn't matter. Soon SCO won't be able to afford the paper to print those invoices anyway.
    • Re:Licensing (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Saturday April 17, 2004 @12:11AM (#8889261)
      Although this comment is scored funny, it's not really.

      Most libraries would be very hesitant to put a 'contested copyright' item on the shelf for copying (after checkout - at home) knowing that they MIGHT get legally harassed for doing it.

      This is most true for operating system software CDs.

      It is not true for normal music/audio/spoken word CDs as public libraries take the position that ordinary CDs that are checked out will only be listened to and not copied.

      I get most of my music from the two local libraries (one main library for the city and the library system in the wealthy suburbs). I used to just grab about ten CDs at a time off the shelf and rip them to MP3s, listen to them selectively, and burn the best music to 15 cent CD-R blanks. After about a thousand albums, I got a little bored with stuff like "1000 Bulgarian Accordians Play the Beatles", but I still found lots of interesting stuff that I would have never heard from any other avenue of music exposure.

      I copied a lot of music that I'm not interested in now but may be in the future because I believe that it's only a matter of time before the RIAA targets libraries for having CDs available for checkout. You could come into the library one day and find all the music CDs, just, gone. All it takes is one paid-off judge. And we sure have plenty of those around here. So I copied everything that I could with the idea that I might possibly enjoy a different type of music (like jazz or classical) in ten years time when all the music may possibly have been removed from the library shelves.

      [How's that for a verb tense? Subjunctive Future Perfect? Too much college, not enough beer]

  • RE: FS in the Lib (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fshalor ( 133678 ) <fshalor AT comcast DOT net> on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:56PM (#8887849) Homepage Journal
    1. Mozilla.
    2. Manuals.
    3. Slashdot archives.
    4. Linux/Unix howtos
    5. Freshmeat archived snapshots.
    6. Gnu utils.
    7. All the distros...

    I'm going to actually be checking into this soon at our local lib. My whole compter experience started off at a freenet helpdesk in the library back in like 95...Man.. I can give bacl.
  • by ElectricPoppy ( 679857 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:56PM (#8887854)
    what's the big deal?
  • DUPE! (Score:4, Funny)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:58PM (#8887867)
    I can't believe this... we've run out of original topics.

    Ask Slashdot has gone into reruns... [slashdot.org]

    There isn't even an article here and we still got a dupe.
  • by fhic ( 214533 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:59PM (#8887875)
    It probably doesn't answer the question, since my local library doesn't lend software. But every month or so I burn a handful of CD-Rs with Knoppix, Lindows^W Linspire, and OpenOffice and drop them in the public area of the lobby. I label them with a unique URL so I can see if anybody's paying attention. I get hits off maybe half of them, and occasionally an email to the tune of "hey, you got any more of this stuff?" Hopefully I'm collecting some good karma somewhere. :-)

    • Have you talked to the librarians? Maybe they could find you a local funding partner so that there could be an enough-to-go-around supply at the front desk...
      • Funding is not a problem. While I'm no Bill Gates, I can afford to give away five or six spindle's worth of CD-Rs a year. :-)

        My local branch library is pretty small, but branch libraries are the heart and soul of libraries everywhere. If they can give away everything that I give them, I'm entirely prepared to give them way more. I could constantly burn CD-Rs from now until my dying day and not give back a tenth of what local public libraries have given me over the years.

        In fact, I offer up this challenge
  • Which library? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gangis ( 310282 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @07:59PM (#8887877) Journal
    Which library? Just out of curiosity. I live in Indialantic, also under the shadow of the cape. There are three libraries near me, Eau Gallie Library on Pineapple Road, the Melbourne Beach City Library where Nick's Steakhouse used to be on A1A, and some library I haven't gone to in Satellite Beach.

    I may be interested in helping out on your endeavor, since I am local and I support spreading awareness of free software. :)
    • I may be interested in helping out on your endeavor, since I am local and I support spreading awareness of free software. :)

      Gangis M. Khan

      Be careful - this guy also almost pillaged Europe. If he gets cocky trying to help you spread CDs, I suggest dusting him down with a little Comet [reidsco.com]. That did the trick when he was riding wild last time.

      --
      Evan

    • Which library? (Score:4, Informative)

      by DoraLives ( 622001 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:23PM (#8887995)
      Cocoa Beach
  • by David Hume ( 200499 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:00PM (#8887885) Homepage

    I have to ask whether your library has a fast internet connection and whether the computers have CD burners (that library clients can use)?

    Not to disparage your idea by implication, it is excellent. I just thought that the above could help people access software the library does not have on CD. In addition, some Free Software is updated so quickly that a library might have trouble keeping up with regard to receiving and cataloging physical CDs.

    Finally, many libraries keep a home page on their computers which lists various reference sites. Perhaps Free Software sites could be added to this list.

  • Library demographics (Score:5, Informative)

    by karlowfwb ( 542982 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:01PM (#8887888)
    I work in a public library and my experience with the typical demographic of the library would lead me to believe that this would not be a big hit. Many of the patrons visit the library simply to use the internet, most of these people do not have a computer at home. Another large percentage are older folks, who simply want to read their mysteries. We do carry a moderately sized selection of (mostly educational) software, however that circulates very poorly.

    Perhaps this could be successful in a smaller library with a more technically aware demographic, however in your average public library, I don't think it would see much success.
  • GNUwin (Score:2, Informative)

    by Slayk ( 691976 )
    Most of the stuff is rather old, but it is still good to have around. GNUwin [gnuwin.epfl.ch]
  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:04PM (#8887901) Homepage Journal
    My local library for one loans commercial software, so it woudlnt be too far fetched to try it here too.

    As far as what, id stick with the following:

    1 - run from CD, such as Mepis, or knoppix, or freebsie.. ( give people a choice )
    2 - General application replacements for windows.
    3 - make your own #2's... with pretty liners for the sleves.. attract attention...
    4 - games.. lots of games. its what drives a lot of people these days. FOr both windows and unix..

    Just dont over do it.. give people 'cute' stuff to look at.
  • by Eberlin ( 570874 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:09PM (#8887928) Homepage
    I work at a city library with machines sponsored by the B&M Gates Learning Foundation. To pimp Free Software may incur the wrath of Redmond for an already underfunded library. We're already a frickin' MS Office infomercial as it is.

    I do, however, try to make sure people know and understand the costs of MS Software as well as the benefits of Open Source/Free Software. I recommend OpenOffice for those who don't want to shell out a fortune for word processing. I tell people about Mozilla Firefox and describe the benefits it has.

    I also have handouts with links to AVG Anti-Virus, Ad-Aware, and Zone Alarm. Not Open Source but "free as in beer."

    To offer CD's could become a support nightmare unless you pull a "Try at your own risk" thing. Last thing a library needs are irate patrons because they borked their machines trying to use/install software YOU supplied.

    If you are to do so anyway, go with OSS for Windows, first. OpenOffice, Firefox, GIMP. Then maybe the free-as-in-beer stuff I mentioned earlier for antivirus, anti-spyware, and firewalling. Then there's other stuff like Knoppix and bootable game CD's (America's Army?).

    In the end, there are quite a few considerations to think about when offering software from a library. You'll have political issues, can lose some private funding/sponsorships, and even have irate patrons who mistake your goodwill for tech-support-for-life.

    One of the irritating things I got to hear at the library was that when a student asked about BSODs and rebooting, the rest of the class said that it's a normal thing, and to get used to it. I had to tell them otherwise, and even then, they weren't fully convinced that instability isn't natural.

    Hopefully with stuff like free software cd's, and the knoppixes of the world, people will find that there are alternatives to MS. Maybe they'll even see its simplicity, stability, and practicality.
  • by abesottedphoenix ( 468980 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:14PM (#8887946)
    If you want to really help your local public library dig open source, point Koha out to them. With what we pay for an automated library system (it's enough to make you ralph, trust me) Koha is an attractive alternative.

    Many libraries still don't have high speed connections since many libraries are rural public libraries like mine. Scarily, we're still a 56k connection type of place. So the CD thing is quite cool. The second reason we would want this is because of those circulation statistics we'd get from checking out the CDs.

    Your third roadblock - most directors gradumatated from liberry school about a zillion years ago. Computers are new to them. They shouldn't be, but trust me, most directors are 50-70 year old white guys that haven't gotten sunlight in a billion years.
  • by spiritraveller ( 641174 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:14PM (#8887950)
    Rather than focusing on Linux itself, I think the best approach to get people using free software is to give them software that works with the operating system they already have.

    Most people will switch to free software gradually, not suddenly with a complete operating system replacement.

    They may eventually switch to Linux, but that will be much easier for them if they are already using software that can be used under both Linux and Windows.

    Therefore, I think the best thing for most people would be a cd filled with easy-to-install Windows versions of programs such as the following:

    * OpenOffice 1.1.1
    * Mozilla Firefox (web browser)
    * Mozilla Thunderbird (email and usenet discussions)
    * Mozilla Sunbird (calendar)
    * Nvu (based on the old Mozilla Composer web-design app)
    * Mozilla Suite 1.6 (for those who prefer it all in one program)
    * Pan (usenet binaries)
    * gaim (chat client)
    * The Gimp (to replace Photoshop

    There are Windows binary downloads available for each of these programs...

    You might also make a version of this disk for Mac OSX users. But by this, I mean apps that run natively, not through an X server. Fink is great, and you might want to have a disk that lets you install it and some of its packages... but running an X server is a little complex for the average user.

    Apps that run natively under OSX that I know of:

    * Mozilla Suite 1.6
    * Mozilla Camino (a more lightweight browser)
    * NeoOffice/J (a version of OpenOffice)

    I am sure there are other native OSX FOSS apps... but those are the ones I know of.

    Of course there's no reason you can't provide 20 different Linux distributions and the entire contents of Sourceforge... but I would focus on Windows and Mac apps, and Live-CDs so people can get their feet wet with FOSS apps without committing an entire system all at once.

  • Project Gutenberg CD (Score:4, Informative)

    by j1m+5n0w ( 749199 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:17PM (#8887964) Homepage Journal

    A cd [gutenberg.net] of Project Gutenberg books would be a reasonable thing for a library to carry. Staring at a screen isn't the best way to read a book, but I've read quite a few that way.

    Some of my favorites (Some of which I read in dead tree format, I'm not masochistic enough to read Les Miserables via CRT):

    -jim

  • While libraries traditionally work on a lender model, I am thinking that a software disk is something that you are going to want to keep around the house. I would suggest offering CDs at a modest price, like 50 cents a disk. You could also load up a DVD with a ton of free software, for a dollar or two.
  • There's a library five minutes away from my house.

    They've had software for a few years, with a decent variety of titles - reference, educational, games for the little kiddies, and so on.

    When I walked into the library on Wednesday, however, I noticed a new addition to their collection: "Serious Sam: The Second Encounter."

    Finally...now I can blast aliens and save the Earth, and it's only a dollar rental to do it!

  • Along with linux and BSD...alot of people who can't afford programs like microsoft office or photoshop and need software don't know what to do...some pirate and some buy crapware...librarys should have cds for free or for a small fee that have Gimp, Open office,Mozilla,Firebird,Filezilla,Putty,emacs,vim , etc... for windows...that would be a great help...this great free reasource should be offered in local librarys for those who are not comfortable with switching platforms and in the future it would easier
  • What about a CD of the Project Gutenberg works? Seems appropriate for a library.
  • There are three major collections of OSS software for Windows:

    Of the three, I believe the Open Source Software CD is the one updated the most and is the most complete. (Disclaimer: I am its proud maintainer.)

  • Don't forget to give your used books that you're no longer reading to your local library. I've given quite a few Linux ones which I hope will be put to good use with others.

    Too bad I can't collect some royalties from overdue fines!
  • We, Bergen Linux User Group, are going to do exactly this. What we'll end up with, is Mandrake (because of it's beginner-friendliness), Knoppix (obvious), Debian and FreeBSD, plus OpenOffice I guess.

    But, equally important is information for the librarians. We're writing some short information about the distributions, with recommendations about which one they'll recommend. Mostly, I guess they should recommend Mandrake or Knoppix, but provide others on request.

    Second, on the CD labels we'll provide an emai
  • Free software (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pompatus ( 642396 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:25PM (#8888009) Journal
    I worked in a small town library in high school (about 10 years ago). We had software in the back that wasn't in circulation because of the fear of lawsuits about copying. I said that was rediculous, because people could photocopy books, plus we had tons of movies available for checkout. It wasn't my decision though, so the software sat there collecting dust.

    I personally think the local library should carry ALL software. It's copyrighted the same as books. How about tax software? People only need it once a year. Checking it out for a week and returning it makes sense. Think about how many programs you only need maybe once or twice a year. Partition Magic comes to mind. Almost all games get boring after a couple of weeks.

    Of course software companies would have a fit about this because they percieve lost profits. I think most people that would check out software from a library would go without before buying it.

    The real solution to the problem is open source software. I personall think linux is almost ready for the desktop for the average user. Hell, the evolution email client alone makes me want to switch (I'm dual booting now, mainly because my sound drivers play volume at 1/3 of the windows drivers and my USB flash keychain thingy doesn't work properly under linux. I'm running mandrake 10 with asus a7v8x-x mobo. any ideas?? :).

    But I'm getting offtopic. Libraries should have ALL software available for checkout, just as they have all other forms of media. Thank god libraries have existed for as long as they have in this country, because if they were suggested today, they would get vetoed by book, magazine, movie, music, and software publishers because of a percieved loss in profit. Think of all of the brilliant people throughout history that were not rich enough to have their own vast collection of books.
    • Re:Free software (Score:2, Interesting)

      by localhost00 ( 742440 )
      There is an inherent problem with a Library having all software available for checkout.

      If a program that is not free is available, a user can check it out, have it home, burn a duplicate CD and have the CD back at the library the same day.

      Books on the other hand, would be practically impossible to duplicate in the time the library allows you to have it in your possession.

      Basically, it is not cost-effective to copy a book, which is why books that would otherwise cost you some $$$ can be available at a libra

    • Re:Free software (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zpok ( 604055 )
      Um, I like the notion, but to be completely honest: I'd copy.

      Yes I would.

      And so would everybody I know. I'm pretty sure.

      I'm actually very conservative about this, I think I have about 4 copied CD's in a total collection of 300+ CD's and 400+ records, but still...

      I know I would do it because where I lived a year ago, I could buy pirated software for $4 as opposed to twice or trice the market price in the US, and guess what, I bought the pirates.

      It's a shame, really, I won't waste your time with excuses
    • Re:Free software (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Simonetta ( 207550 )
      Many big city libraries bought lots of CD ROM titles for major expenditure during the first wave of CD software in the early to mid 1990's. Very little of it got actually checked out or used. The libraries probably won't be buying much more software for circulation again.

      I do occasionly see CDs in books on the shelves, for example, in the travel section of the local surburban library there is a set of six CDs that have the detailed topographic maps of the entire United States (except Alaska and Hawaii
  • I would not expect to find software CD-ROMs on a rack next to music CDs. They aren't the same kind of thing at all.

    Perhaps get them a subscription to Linux Format magazine in the DVD edition, with an available DVD reader and CD writer somewhere nearby.

  • None (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Breakerofthings ( 321914 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:26PM (#8888014)
    Distributing OSS software (maybe software in general) via CD is lame. In my experience, by the time you get a CD, half of its contents are out of date.

    My first Linux distro was a store-bought, shrink-wrapped copy of RedHat. I was hip deep into it before I realized it was a couple of versions old ... Don't most libraries nowadays have internet access? Maybe broadband? (if not, they should ... but that is a different rant)

    So how tough would it be for a library to set up a mirror of the ISOs for linux/bsd/etc. distros, and a directory of tarballs for packages?

    Then all you need is a few cd burners, and you are all set ... strapped for cash? Make 'em provide their own blanks ... (cd burners are cheap nowadays)

    Strapped for the storage space? How about just an index, a starting point for the uninitiated, that will point them to the projects' sites where they can download the ISOs, RPMs, DEBs, etc. that they want. (Cache 'em with squid, maybe).

    Now, the library doesn't have to worry about the CDs being returned, or being damaged (or getting 'stale').

    My point is, (and I am truly not trying to pick on anyone here) that the mindset of someone asking this question is a bit askew; they are overlooking the Internet! Now I am a dead tree lover; obsessed, really. But I realize that dead trees are no longer the best way to distribute information in all cases ... particularly information that is prone to becoming dated quickly.
    All you are really interested in is getting folks information here, right? just the bits ... my claim is that the best way to do that is give it to em from the source; fresh, hot, up-to-date, and maybe they will learn something from that experience (like where to go to *get* FOSS!

    The library should focus on helping people find that information ... hence my suggestion for a link page ... a jumping off point, or directory of sorts. Perhaps local cached copies of n00b-appropriate distros, maybe even a few pre-burnt CDs to cut down on the wait time (Knoppix would be an excellent choice for this)

    One last point to beat the proverbial dead horse ...
    If the library has broadband internet access, where a user can download debian, for example, and a little help finding it for the newcomers ... and the ability to make a cd of what they want ...what value does shelving copies add to the transaction?
    • In my experience, by the time you get a CD, half of its contents are out of date.

      Not everyone wants the bleeding edge of free software. I spend way too much time trying to determine what has changed every time I change to a new distribution, and if something doesn't work on a new install with a new distro, I'm stuck trying to debug two different things at the same time.

      Example: brand new system which is just like one I already loaded up. Tried Fedora Core 1 instead of RH7.3. No net, no audio. Was the pr

  • * Various Dr. Dobbs CDs like The World Wide Web Toolkit, the Algorithms compilation, etc.
    * C/C++ Users Journal CDs
    * Software Practice & Experience(1971 - 1980) (very expensive)
    * Plan 9
    * Solaris 8 Source Foundation Release
    * Red Hat Fedora Core 1 with Updates
    * The Single UNIX spec v3
  • opencd anyone? (Score:2, Informative)

    by seringen ( 670743 )
    For more information, check out www.theopencd.org [theopencd.org]
  • FileZilla [sourceforge.net] is one I just started using. I'd formally been using cuteFTP and WS_FTP. FileZilla is easy to use for people who have been exposed to these programs before.

    Just don't make the mistake of listing only Linux software. Most people still use Windows and there's more to OpenSource than just Linux. Windows users should get exposed to the concept as well.

  • MY library (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LordHatrus ( 763508 )
    My library has RedHat Install disks and install disks for some other linux... but they are REALLY old versions, and my library only has them because they have books like "RedHat Linux for Dummies" and "Corel Linux in 10 days" and stuff like that, and the books happen to have the install disks in the back. (Upon looking, a CD was missing from one of them, and I actually burned a new copy and placed it in the book... though I would never take out a book as noobish as that,dont worry :) )
  • Windows Update (Score:5, Informative)

    by Student_Tech ( 66719 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:45PM (#8888108) Journal
    Microsoft offers Windows Update CDs every few months for free from them. Perhaps get a few, http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/cd/order .asp [microsoft.com]

    Of course if everyone using the library has broadband it might be kinda mute, but it would be useful for everyone else.
  • software (especially free software) isn't in the same vein as a book or a movie. It isn't physical, and it isn't a single item that needs to be shared by a number of people. Also, it changes regularly, so anything the library stocks will be soon out of date.

    A better idea: provide a way for those users without reasonable net access at home to burn a copy at the library. They could buy a blank CD for 25 cents from the library, then sit at a terminal and burn the software they want.

    The interface to this w
  • potential problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wk633 ( 442820 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:53PM (#8888144)
    I used to work as a sysadmin at a library. A co-worker wanted to donate several copies of FreeBSD he had. The problem the library had was that they had a boilerplate policy for all software CDs that said you promised to uninstall it when you returned the CD, not to copy it, etc etc. Free software didn't fit into the boilerplate library policy, so they weren't quite sure what to do. They wanted to get it out, but were worried about deailng with multiple circulation policies.
  • Windows patches? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by omicronish ( 750174 ) on Friday April 16, 2004 @08:54PM (#8888148)

    Does anyone know if it would be legal to make a CD full of Windows patches and service packs? Such a CD would be incredibly useful for me, and perhaps other people. Someone could write a nice pamphlet on how to protect your computer, and provide a simple installation program for installing necessary patches from the CD.

    It'd be like one of those health pamphlets, such as "how to protect yourself against skin cancer", but geared towards protecting Windows computers.

    Replacements for commonly-exploited parts of Windows could also be included, such as Firefox, and as a bonus, MiKTex [miktex.org] and a tutorial can be included to free college students from the grasps of Microsoft Equation Editor ;)

    • I've got one of those.. you can get them from microsoft for free sometimes. You can also sign up to get them on a regular basis for a small fee as well.
    • Re:Windows patches? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zakezuke ( 229119 )
      Does anyone know if it would be legal to make a CD full of Windows patches and service packs? Such a CD would be incredibly useful for me, and perhaps other people. Someone could write a nice pamphlet on how to protect your computer, and provide a simple installation program for installing necessary patches from the CD.

      You'd have to talk to Microsoft about the subject. What you're doing is thoughtful, practical, and would have some major value esp for people who buy new systems who are told to download s
    • Order the Windows Security Update CD [microsoft.com]

      The Windows Security Update CD will be shipped to you free of charge. This CD includes Microsoft critical updates released through October 2003 and information to help you protect your PC. In addition, you will also receive a free antivirus and firewall trial software CD.

      This CD is only available for Windows XP, Windows Me, Windows 2000, Windows 98, and Windows 98 Second Edition (SE).


      Free shipping too.
  • Slightly separate issue:

    If you contribute disks, rather than giving them a list of things for the library to acquire, they're very likely to make them available.

    Commercial distributions are nice. But given that it's free software you could download and burn the disks yourself.

    If you do provide homeburned disks, be sure to clearly mark the disks with what they contain (leaving space for a library marking, too) and provide a hardcopy of the license with each - preferably as a jewelcase insert - so the lib
  • Here's what happened when we tried to get a copy of "BERKS 6" purchased by & for borrowers of the local (Sterling) Public Library:

    First, BERKS 6 (there may be a '7 by now, FAIK) is:

    A set of 4 CD-ROMs - full of tutorials on IT, programming, etc -and- Open Source Software - and the whole set costing under Au$ 20.00 + post made the deal very good value, indeed.

    So, I suggested that the Stirling library, (one of the lib's in the Adel Hills Council area) buy & shelve a set or two for borrowing.

    The ans
  • ...the Baen [baen.com] bound-into-hardcover CDROMs would make a great addition to any library. Best of all, since they're freely copyable, all it would cost would be a CDROM blank...and they could be easily replaced if anyone broke or lost them.

    I've actually taken to putting all five of them (available via BitTorrent at this website [zlynx.org]), three Blackmask.com [blackmask.com] public domain book CDROMs, and the free works of Cory Doctorow [craphound.com] on a single DVD+ROM and handing it out to folks who have DVD drives.
  • Perhaps the folks at the Beauregard Parish Public Library [beau.org] could help out. Check out Whitebox Linux" to see what they're doing. [whiteboxlinux.org]
  • I'm always bitching about usability and installers, but maybe the biggest problem really is the missing "retail experience". You know (might remember): grabbing the box, checking out and reading the install instructions. Think of it as a ritual if you will.

    If such a library project could emulate some of this, that would overcome a big obstacle.

    I think: include a booklet with hardware compatibility, system requirements and install instructions, make sure all distributions are stable and leave the experimen
  • I remember, when I first started using Linux, I got the "Tri-Linux distro set" (which included Debian, Red Hat, and Slackware), along with it came a 3 cd set of a sunet mirror FTP site. So by today's standard, I would like to see a CD mirror of the iBiblio.org FTP archive.

  • by SaberTaylor ( 150915 ) on Saturday April 17, 2004 @01:51AM (#8889713) Homepage Journal
    This is a great idea. I used to think that free sw advocates should get free cdroms placed at checkout counters but apparently that is highly valuable retail space.

    I would recommend that for people introducing libraries to free software, that cds should be purchased from mass-produced (with the distinctive stamped look) cd vendors for security trustworthiness. Not just on the person who puts the cds in the library but so borrowers don't replace any cds with their own versions.

    And for burnt cds I'd recommend that the URL for the checksum be included in the cdrom case.

    As far as selection goes, I don't think you can go wrong.

    have fun.
  • "Linux Format" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by r_j_prahad ( 309298 ) <r_j_prahad AT hotmail DOT com> on Saturday April 17, 2004 @04:50AM (#8890413)
    I nominate the cover discs for the monthly magazine "Linux Format". I get 2 or 3 CDs per issue, and there's a DVD subscription option for those who want it. In the past they've included just about every major distro's ISOs, including bootable images. There's also lot's of bleedin' edge stuff that's too big for most of us to download, like the new OpenOffice or KDE3.2. Sometimes they've even got some really expensive proprietary packages that run as crippleware but they're usually complete enough to get some good use out of them.

    So that's my vote for my lending library. But I'd still keep my subscription anyways.
  • by shylock0 ( 561559 ) on Saturday April 17, 2004 @10:10AM (#8891186)
    This poses a *huge* security risk which should be considered. What's to stop someone from checking out a disk of OSS and returning another disk of the same software, this one with a worm or built in DOS attack? You'd need to run an MD5 on each disk after it was returned, which libraries don't really have the capability for. Or, you'd need to find some way to identify the disks that is difficult to copy, like a holographic sticker that changes when removed (like the warranty stickers on some HP home computers).


    Otherwise, such software is just begging to be tampered with by some wise-ass 17-year-old -- or somebody malicious, even.

  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Saturday April 17, 2004 @11:51AM (#8891669)
    Lots of books about FOSS, come with CDs included. So, libraries have been allowing the public to check out freeware CDs all along.

Get hold of portable property. -- Charles Dickens, "Great Expectations"

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