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Displays Technology

Large LCD HDTV as a Computer Monitor? 143

An anonymous reader asks: "I have seen $2000 27"and $1400 23" HDTV LCD sets at Costco, and similarly priced smaller sets elsewhere. I asked a salesperson (elsewhere) if I could try one with my laptop's DVI, and was told that the TVs wouldn't work well. DVI and VGA inputs, 400-600:1 contrast ratio, fast refresh rates (for gaming?), and HDTV capability for other uses, why can't they work? The prices run from as above to very significantly more. Has anyone tried the inexpensive large LCD HDTVs, or the expensive ones, for their desktop? I want to reduce the clutter in my family room and upgrade to highdef? Is it time?"
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Large LCD HDTV as a Computer Monitor?

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  • Abit expensive? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Celt ( 125318 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:01PM (#8977798) Journal
    Its abit costly no?
    why not just get a nice Samsung 19" TFT for 650+ Euro (abit more in $'s) you can that patch a tv signal into this?

    I'd personally rather keep them both seperate (tv and pc monitor).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:04PM (#8977832)
    Just think about a desktop at 1280 x 720 at 27". Shudder...

  • Apple 23" is $2000 (Score:4, Informative)

    by potuncle ( 583651 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:08PM (#8977862)
    You can get a 23" Cinema display from Apple for $1999 (plus $100 for a DVI to ADC adapter if you don't have a Mac). It displays 1920 x 1200. Plus, Apple's LCD displays are beautiful is design and image quality. Also, if you decide you don't like it or want something else later on, Apple displays have a much higher resale value that any other LCD displays.
  • Re:Resolution? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:29PM (#8978015)
    your experience is only in computer monitors, then. HDTVs are often widescreen, which means 1024 (or, more appropriately, 1080, I can't remember which) lines of resolution won't give you 1280, it should give you more. (I think widescreen is often 16:9 or more, instead of 4:3, which is the ratio of most of the VGA derived resolutions (1280x1024 being a rather glaring exception))

    Thus, at 1080 lines, you'd get 1920 columns (16x9 widescreen).

    I think the biggest problem, though with using these things as normal computer monitors is what my friend experienced: Most computer display cards don't like outputting to them. You can get a computer display at some resolutions, but very few cards without special drivers/software can output (1920x)1080 interlaced resolution, at a refresh rate that the TV likes (his, at least, was very particular). Eventually I think he got it in 1080i at 56Hz, but it wasn't steady or reliable, or something like that. Eventually just 'downgrading' to 720p. Your mileage may vary, depending on OS, video card, driver version, TV, etc.
  • by justMichael ( 606509 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:41PM (#8978118) Homepage
    Here is one [apple.com], that's close, not exactly 1920 x 1080, but 1900 x 1200.

    Or if you really have money to burn, you can get one from IBM [ibm.com] at a blistering 3840 x 2400 for a measly $8k plus a grand or so for a card to drive it.
  • Re:Standard TVs? (Score:3, Informative)

    by sahala ( 105682 ) <sahala@@@gmail...com> on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:54PM (#8978222)
    I have one of my old computers hooked up to a 32" Sony. Watching quicktime trailers, playing silly flash games, downloading and watching a movie off MovieLink, and playing music with visualizations is pretty good.

    Browsing the web, however, is a pain in the ass. Text is very hard to read, even with the font sizes cranked up.

    Using a TV as monitor for playing media is a viable solution, however, especially if you have your hi-fi sound system in the proximity of your TV. It's much nicer to kick back and listen to mp3s on the couch rather than at your desk.

  • Re:Resolution? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:57PM (#8978237)
    the 'I cant remember which' was when I wasn't sure if it was 1040 or 1080. I then looked it up, found it was 1080, deleted the 1040 mentioned, but forgot to fix the text AFTER the 1080. oops :)
  • by hawkstone ( 233083 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @07:58PM (#8978244)
    Keep in mind that HDTV does not even mean a full 1080 lines of resolution necessarily.

    Specifically, I have an HDTV LCD rear projection 50". Its native resolution is 1280x720, but with a little overscan you have to cut that down to about 1200x680 (roughly). I believe this resolution is typically the same for DLP rear projections and LCOS. I suspect that LCD flat panels are the same. Some DLP TVs appeared to me to have a limited color depth and too much dithering was apparent. I don't think this is an inherent problem with the technology, however, as DLP projectors work quite well hooked up to computers.

    An "EDTV" plasma flat-panel TV is (IIRC) 768x480. That is clearly inadequate for use as a computer monitor. I think even the HDTV plasmas are commonly only 720 vertical lines. The few TVs that actually have 1080 lines of resolution are mostly CRT tubes (e.g. CRT RP).

    The most important question is what the native resolution of these LCD flat panels is, and whether or not there is a computer-compatible connector that makes full use of it. For example, my TV I specifically got because it has both RGB (HD15) and DVI inputs, and I can get a resolution that maps directly to the pixels on the screen.

    Unfortunately, this resolution (again, 1280x720) is not really adequate for full-time use as a computer monitor. It's great for the occasional web surfing, but I wouldn't want to do any real work on it.

    In summary: If you can deal with the resolution, and there is a good connector on the TV (DVI is ideal, VGA is acceptable), then you will be fine. There's nothing particularly wrong with the attributes of these LCD TVs for use as computer monitors, in general, including color depth and pixel response times. (Once you start looking at other technologies like CRT RP, DLP, and Plasma, these other issues may become problematic.)
  • Re:Uh... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 26, 2004 @08:08PM (#8978316)
    You're thinking in terms of 80's display technology.

    Mordern display won't even attempt to display things outside their range and the inputs are protected from over/under-voltage similar to an RS-232 port (tough suckers they are; at least the true-to-spec ones are).
  • by lemonboy ( 456438 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @08:49PM (#8978580)
    with that explanation be sure to note what the NATIVE resolution is of the "monitor" you are looking at. Sun has rebranded Sony's 24" monitors in the past. Here is Sony's latest:
    http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP .enfinity /eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-S tart;sid=h-qxIaP1nNqxRON4Ksy7Kuz6sgnNIdpGgmw=?Cate goryName=cpu_Displays_FlatPanelLCDs_20%22&Dept=cpu &TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductSKU=SDMP232W %2fB
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 26, 2004 @08:50PM (#8978588)
    Not to mention the Dell looks like utter shit when put up against the mac cinema display. Nothing shows the dell up for the cheap trash it is more than that.
  • Re:Resolution? (Score:2, Informative)

    by UID1000000 ( 768677 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @10:48PM (#8979339) Homepage Journal
    Parent has a good point.

    I purchasing IT equipment and albeit I'm not looking it up right now BUT I'm always turned off by the LCD TVs low native resolution when it comes to computer displays.

    Most of them only have an 800 x 600 resolution or commonly 1024 x 768. On a 23" LCD screen (1024 x 768) it's going to look decent but not as great as it can be.

    I'm not sure why the resolutions are so low but optimally I would say you should go for 1600 x 1200 resolution. These are out there but they're still up there in price. I would say wait a year or two to make the investment.

    I predict too that 15" LCDs will go bye bye within 18-24 months and only be made for notebooks. We'll still see 13" - 17" notebooks but the core will be 15" and then the primary/standard LCD monitor will be 17". At this point the 21" - 23" market are going to drop along with the 17".
    Where is evidence of this? 15" LCD monitors are going up in price (remember I'm talking about large volume pricing here) and closing the margin between 15" and 17" LCD monitors so that the transition won't be so hard for the corporate customers.

  • Re:Projector (Score:2, Informative)

    by UID1000000 ( 768677 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @10:54PM (#8979407) Homepage Journal
    Coppit, projectors bulbs last anywhere from 1000-3000 hours. They run at a high wattage and they're expensive to repair. The average bulb (thinking NEC, Dell, Infocus, Toshiba, ViewSonic) is from 180 - 400 dollars a piece.

    So up front the investment is great but the downside is the replacement of the parts, bulbs, color wheel, ballast, etc.
  • Re:Resolution? (Score:3, Informative)

    by notsoclever ( 748131 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @01:12AM (#8980516) Journal
    1080 is the number of lines in the display format (which is 1920x1080, with rectangular pixels to make it a 16:9 display aspect). HDTVs don't yet have that high of an actual resolution; they downsample.
  • by dbirchall ( 191839 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @02:13AM (#8980887) Journal
    In fact, Sony does offer a 23" display built around the same panel Apple uses for the Cinema 23HD. I think it's the SDM-P232. Last time I checked it had multiple DVI inputs... and cost a few hundred more than the Cinema 23HD.

    I don't think the panel is made by Sony... I forget who does make it.

  • by dbirchall ( 191839 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @02:23AM (#8980934) Journal
    It would be nice if other monitor manufacturers would produce units with the same screen. Apple doesn't build the LCD screen, they just buy them from someone and put them in their monitor, just like the Dell or Gateway branded monitors.
    The Sony SDM-P232W/B [amazon.com] uses the same panel as the Apple Cinema 23HD (but with a different anti-glare coating, I've heard). It also costs more than the Apple one, but I believe it has multiple DVI inputs.
  • My setup (Score:4, Informative)

    by Shaheen ( 313 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:23AM (#8981740) Homepage
    I don't know if I'm too late to comment on this story, but here goes anyway...

    I personally have a HTPC (home theater PC) setup in my apartment. The display is a Samsung HLN4365W DLP set. Not the same as LCD, but it accepts the same types of input as a standard HDTV device: DVI, Component, etc.

    My PC is a standard Windows XP box. Shuttle XPC SN45G case/mobo, Athlon 1800+, 512MB RAM, WinTV PVR, and a Radeon 9600 Pro.

    My display's native resolution is 1280x720p. By default, my video card does not have this resolution enabled. An application called PowerStrip has been around for a good long while that excels at doing things like adjusting vertical/horizontal scan rates, resolutions, etc. in most video cards' firmware & drivers. Note that the display worked fine at 800x600, but then I wasn't making much good use of the widescreen aspect ratio and DVDs from the HTPC were letterboxed in the 8x6 area of the screen, which looked retarded.

    So will your laptop work? It's not 100% clear that it will since your laptop probably has an integrated video chipset that PowerStrip may not support. Of course, you might just get lucky and it might work out of the box, too.
  • by gregarican ( 694358 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:37AM (#8982559) Homepage
    I recently assembled a VIA EPIA mini-ITX box to integrate into my home theater system. The idea was having a small form factor that would fit into the entertainment center, utilize an RCA out video port for my 51" rear projection TV, and operate with a wireless keyboard/trackball device. All of that came together fine. On paper at least.

    Where I was extremely let down was in the quality of the TV display. I don't have an HDTV, just an older rear projection set. I have to enable the Windows Accessibility Options in order to even come close to reading the fonts on the screen. Really ugly Windows High Contrast Black (large fonts). Yuck.

    When I called VIA to get the display driver specs versus typical TV specs I was told that 800x600 was the best resolution I could hope for. And that this sort of setup is primarily intended for watching videos. Any onscreen fonts are really pushing it.

    Can't complain in that the whole setup was around $600 in all, but I am still amazed at how average TV screen resolution is so much poorer than what a home PC can put out. I guess HDTV would be a good step up for me, but then again I am not relishing shelling out $1500-2000 only 5-6 years after getting my current set.

    [/rant]
  • by Pii ( 1955 ) <<gro.rebasthgil> <ta> <idej>> on Wednesday April 28, 2004 @03:37PM (#8999852) Journal
    You're on crack...

    Dell sells rebranded Samsung flat panels, and they kick ass. They have the best refresh rates (not the same term as in a conventional CRT, but rather, the amount of time it takes to light or darken an individual pixel), and fantastic contrast ratios. The Apple displays look great, but saying that the Dell displays look like shit puts you squarely in the Apple Fan-boy category.

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