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Communications Spam

No Call List Bypassed Using Call Centers in India? 94

Posted by Cliff from the closing-off-the-loophole dept.
lollipop17 asks: "My husband and I recently bought a house, and so our three months on the do not call list before we can file complaints is not quite over. We only have one business thus far that has called soliciting anything, but here's the catch: it's always a recording, and when I finally got through on the number they provided, 800-513-4524, the reps that answer are in India and have no idea what's going on other than they have a contract with an American company to take sales orders. The girl on the recording mumbles the business name, which seems to be 'All Digital Satellite,' which I could not locate via Google as it's so generic. Given the recent story about spam faxes, and solicitations overseas, do you think this is the future of telemarketing (the offshore location anyway)? Has anyone successfully filed a complaint with the FTC for violation of the do not call registry (for I am sure they will call again after our three months is over, they call at least twice a week)? Does anyone have ideas for tracking them down (i.e. local phone number or stateside address)? The message even seems fraudulent, but I cannot file a complaint with the better business bureau without local phone or address. Any ideas?"
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No Call List Bypassed Using Call Centers in India? More

No Call List Bypassed Using Call Centers in India?

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  • Phone spam (Score:3, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:44PM (#9155608)
    That sounds like phone spam.. Illegal, arrives in garbled format, and from some shady scam outfit that does not want to identify itself.

    Reminds of the few times I have received spam advertising products that took the "cover up" aspect too far: the return address was fake, the name of the product was not in the e-mail, and there was no link or phone # or any way for me to contact them if hell had frozen over and I actually did want to buy their product.

    • Re:Phone spam (Score:5, Interesting)

      by walt-sjc ( 145127 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @05:11PM (#9156802)
      There are the "telezapper" products that may help, but they are kinda lame. I use a linux-based asterisk [asteriskpbx.org] phone system. If your caller ID is not on the (mysql based) white list, you need to navigate the menu. Numbers I dial are automatically added to the white list, and I also have a web-based management tool for it.

      There is also a Telemarketer Torture [voip-info.org] script for asterisk someone came up with... :-)

    • I get phone spam on my Canadian cell phone from a company in the US trying to sell me US-based services/products. Idijts!

  • Robert Kirkpatrick (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jane_the_Great ( 778338 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:45PM (#9155612)
    I found this PDF press release [216.239.37.104] that mentions a Robert Kirkpatrick at All Digital Satellite. Perhaps you can contact those responsible for this site to clue you in as to how you can get in touch with Mr. Kirkpatrick. Here's a link [winegard.com] to the actual PDF file at the Winegard company's website.

  • This means .... war! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Leffe ( 686621 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:45PM (#9155614)
    Couldn't you consider this an attack on America and use it as an excuse to invade India :)?

    • Re:This means .... war! (Score:5, Funny)

      by WarPresident ( 754535 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @04:41PM (#9156448) Homepage Journal
      Couldn't you consider this an attack on America and use it as an excuse to invade India :)?

      Never pick a fight with a country that believes in reincarnation and has nuclear weapons.

      • Re:This means .... war! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by addaon ( 41825 )
        If everyone left off the last eight words of that comment (or perhaps the last eleven), the world would be a better place.

  • phone bills (Score:3, Funny)

    by rooskie ( 741631 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:45PM (#9155615) Homepage
    I'd imagine if you kept them on the line long enough the overseas phone bill would add up on their end.

    • They can use VOIP (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:49PM (#9155656)
      "I'd imagine if you kept them on the line long enough the overseas phone bill would add up on their end"

      I thought of this too, but these scammers could probably use some sort of VOIP thing to get their voices from India into the US phone system without long distance charges.

      • Re:They can use VOIP (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jmt9581 ( 554192 )
        I thought of this too, but these scammers could probably use some sort of VOIP thing to get their voices from India into the US phone system without long distance charges.

        That's a good point, but you're not just tying up the phone lines: you're tying up the telemarketer as well. Say something like "Hold on a second while I go get my wallet." Then put the phone down and walk away for half an hour or so.

        • "Be right Bach!" (Score:5, Funny)

          by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @04:20PM (#9156165)
          " Then put the phone down and walk away for half an hour or so."

          And since this is over IP, they might be incurring bandwidth and transmission charges. So, when you put the phone down, turn on a nearby tape player playing some J.S. Bach tocatta with some ridicolously high note resolution (32nd notes, etc) into the phone. Just to maximize the data going over their lines. You'll be on your way in no-time to actually succeeding in slashdotting a telemarketer.

      • But surely if they're using VOIP to get the call into the US; then the call, once on the telephone system, has to be originating in the US (putting it onto the telephone system anywhere else would defeat the object of trying to avoid international call charges), and would come under the US do-not-call list?

  • Wonder if it's the same people who've called me (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kraken137 ( 15062 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @03:53PM (#9155734) Homepage
    I've been on my state's do-not-call list for 2 years now, and I'm on the federal one as well now, but I've had 3 recordings left on my answering machine. They're all offers for satellite TV hookups, go on for quite some time, and only leave a number.

    "Again, I can hook up all the TVs in your house with satellite for $XX a month."
  • While it seems the cost of using "classic" analog phone lines would make doing this type of soliciting cost prohibitive, I wonder if they are using VoIP to make the call, and therefore dramatically reducing their costs, thereby making it cost effective and also being outside the US/FCC control ... mostly.

    I agree with another poster that ultimatelly these guys want to sell you something, and it is that company that should (also!) get busted big-time. These guys are in the same sewer as Email spammers - t

  • but in my state(PA) you have to put down a somewhat sizable deposit in order to call anyone(in addition they cannot be on the DNC list) if you do call someone on the DNC list, the state seizes their deposit, and they cannot call anyone in the state ever again.
    However, things like "satellite" services are probably scams to hook up illegal services and the like, so I doubt that they registered with anyone(very few scammers like having the government have info on them, wonder why). Thus being scams they pr

  • Contact your phone company (Score:5, Informative)

    by alienw ( 585907 ) <alienw.slashdot@ ... inus threevowels> on Friday May 14, 2004 @04:11PM (#9156025)
    Recorded sales pitches are illegal in most states, and this constitutes harassment. Contact your phone company about tracing the calls. They have the capability to do this.

    Also, the BBB will be completely useless here. You need to contact the Federal Trade Commission and the FCC. The former regulates various consumer-related things, and the latter enforces many phone regulations.

  • You don't need to wait (Score:4, Informative)

    by sribe ( 304414 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @04:46PM (#9156517)
    My husband and I recently bought a house, and so our three months on the do not call list before we can file complaints is not quite over. We only have one business thus far that has called soliciting anything, but here's the catch: it's always a recording...

    You don't need to wait 3 months. Using automated recordings for commercial phone calls was illegal, to any phone number, long before the do-not-call registry was in place. For what it's worth, every time I've gotten one of these it's from a local small business--some schmuck who doesn't know better and gets sold on the neat idea by an unethical firm who knows that use of its software will leave the user liable for bankruptcy-inducing fines...

  • Get Their Billing Address (Score:5, Funny)

    by DynaSoar ( 714234 ) * on Friday May 14, 2004 @04:58PM (#9156669) Journal
    Ask the next caller for their address. Tell them you're a telemarketing consultant, and you'll be glad to listen to their pitch and rate it at your normal consultancy rate. If they give you an address, listen to their pitch, hang up, write them a letter telling them what you think of their pitch, and send it to them along with an invoice. If they don't pay, submit it to a collection agency. The resulting credit rating problems will make them notice.

    I've never gotten past explaining what I needed the address for, and I've never gotten a return call from the same place. If I ever do get an address, they'll get my best effort to rate their pitch, and a bill for US$200.

  • Ask and Ye Shall Receive (Score:3, Informative)

    by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @05:06PM (#9156757) Journal
    Hoovers.com [hoovers.com] allows you to search for businesses, including the assumed name a company may be operating under. If the company pays taxes you can get informatin on them, although if you haven't paid money for the service they will ask you either to buy a subscription or a report. Still, the Information you'll find if you search their site [hoovers.com] should give you enough leads to track down the business and let the FTC know who to go after.

  • Yes!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gottabeme ( 590848 )
    That sounds like the same calls that I keep getting! Recorded message, wanting to sell satellite service, same voice every time, same sales pitch, saying things like "I was given your name by a friend as someone who might be interested in this." Yeah, right. We already have Dish Network and have no desire to change to any other service. I finally called the stupid 800 number and the first option on the menu was the one to remove your phone number from their list. That just shows how many people they ar
  • for "All Digital Satellite, Inc." comes up with somebody in O'Fallon.
  • but they seem to have stopped. my problem now is all sorts of companies calling for whoever previoisly had our phone number. as I understand it this is legal because the previous person had given them written permission to call but our number is on the donotcall list and has been for over 3 months.

    per donotcall.gov this may be legal since they're not calling for us, but even after being told it's a wrong number they proceed to try and solicit us.

  • interesting phone recording (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kootch ( 81702 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @05:19PM (#9156877) Homepage
    I received a phone call a few days ago in the middle of the day that when I picked the phone up it just said "we're sorry, this phone message was intended only for your answering machine" and then it hung up.

    Very strange.

  • The real problem... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by skinfitz ( 564041 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @05:27PM (#9156950) Journal
    ...is that the legal system is regional with the concept of jurisdiction, whereas communication technology is global.

    It is simply a logical progression for phone / fax spamming companies to use this method of bypassing the law.

    Now what I REALLY want to see, is a filtering system for telephone calls. For example, I want to have the ability to be able to block ALL calls using a white/blacklist, or perhaps automatically reject all calls from a certain area / country. I also want to be able to filter SMS text messages.

    • Re:The real problem... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Nonesuch ( 90847 )
      The original story does not say what number is shown for Caller-ID. I'd be interested to know if this call shows up as originating from India, or Out-Of-Area, or Unavailable, or what?

      Now what I REALLY want to see, is a filtering system for telephone calls. For example, I want to have the ability to be able to block ALL calls using a white/blacklist, or perhaps automatically reject all calls from a certain area / country. I also want to be able to filter SMS text messages.

      For GSM cellular on the Treo

    • Ah, yes - whitelists. The absolutely surefire way, that the chick who asked for your phone number will NOT be asking you out for a second date.

      What? Put HER on a white list? Yeah - like she'll give you her real number. Why do you think she asked for yours in the first place?
    • Check out Asterisk [asterisk.org]. You can do many things with it, including caller ID based whitelists, menus, etc.

      FOSS, too.

  • They've only just begun to use the loopholes... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ScrappyLaptop ( 733753 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @05:42PM (#9157087)
    I'd been predicting it since the DNC list was announced and recently, I got my first loophole call!

    Here's the loophole:

    1.Non-profits are exempt from the DNC.

    2.Non-profit needs funds.

    3.Company pays NPO to make calls on their behalf.

    Mine began,

    Caller: "Hello, may I speak to (me)?"

    Me: "Uh, speaking."

    Caller: "Hi, I am calling from the (city) (religious organization) Community Center. Could you take a moment to answer a few questions?"

    Me: (not wanting to go to Hell this week) "Uh, sure"

    Caller: "Great! Are you (religion)?"

    Me: "No."

    Caller: "Is anyone in your house (of the XYZ religion)?"

    Me: "No."

    Caller: "Okay, that's all for that part of the questions, just a few more."

    Me: "Great."

    Caller: "How many telephones do you have at this number?"

    Me: "What?"

    Caller: "How many telephones do you have at the address for this phone?"

    Me: "Why do you want to know how many phones I have?"

    Caller: "Oh, we just want to ask about your long distance carriers"

    Me: "What does this have to do with (religious organization)?"

    Caller: (click)

  • This is who owns that 800# (Score:3, Informative)

    by jaredcat ( 223478 ) on Friday May 14, 2004 @06:13PM (#9157392)
    This is who owns 800-513-4524

    UniPoint Services / 512 735 1200
    • >This is who owns 800-513-4524
      >UniPoint Services / 512 735 1200

      Now what would be really nice is if you could teach us how to find that information ourselves, for any 8xx number.

    • Actually I think PointOne (d/b/a UniPoint?) ownes the number. PointOne is just a VoIP telecommunications provider. It would be like listing a hosting company as the main contact for a website. It maybe a start to get you going in the right direction, but it's not the answer ultimately.
  • Been on DNC since before it's introduction. I still get calls. One tele-droid actually claimed that since my number was chosen at random, it was somehow OK to for them to call and try to sell me something even though I was on DNC! LOL
  • Buy whatever they're selling, put it on your Visa (not MC or Amex... well ok, maybe Amex). Buy as many of them as you can fit on your credit, wait a few days then file a fraud complaint about the transaction.

    No, better, buy them all in seperate orders, then have them all charged back. When the spammer has racked up a good chunk of chargebacks and complaints, they will either quit (unlikely) or eventually their merchant account will be revoked and they will be SOL.

    As a bonus it causes the evil Visa to sp
  • Every month or so I get a voicemail (on my cell even, no landline) with a message that starts with "This is not a business call. Please call back at 800-814-xxxx between ." I googled for the number, hit verizon's phone listings and yahoo's number lookup, but I couldn't find it. It's rather annoying that they don't even bother to leave a business name.

    Telemarketers need to die.
    • Got the number, the douchebags just called again. This must be coming from outside the US, the guy's accent was so bad I had to listen to the message 4 times to get the number, I couldn't understand the business name.

      1-800-477-1827

      I need to find a payphone to bitch at these guys from. No way am I using my cell minutes on telemarketing scum.

      • Re:stupid telemarketers (Score:2, Interesting)

        by wiggles ( 30088 )
        Bill collectors are known to use these tactics. They'll try to call you, then if they can't get you, they'll just tell you to call them without leaving a name, only a number.

        Are you paid up on your Beowulf cluster of Imacs?
        • I've never, ever had a late payment in my life. To do so would mean a lack of self-responsibility, and therefore I would have to kill myself. It's the one thing I blindly believe in (my own religion!) It amounts to theft, and there's only one thing I hate more than thieves, religious extremists. Of course, they're nothing but thieves anyway, stealing people's thoughts. Now I'm way OT. Thanks! :)
        • Because it's illegal for them to discuss anything with someone other then the person on the account or otherwise authorized on the account. Collection agencies can't say "This is Acme Collections calling for Soandso." They can just say "Please have Soandso call 555-1212" Same way with Doctor's offices and medical privacy. In both cases, they have no way of assuring that you and only you get the message.

      • ... it's Equifax Collections, a bill collector. Admittedly, it's not via reverse-lookup but instead from somebody's web page [infoagency.com].

        • That page is wrong, I called them back a few minutes ago. They had my number listed for 3 different people in 3 different states, none of which were me. The company is
          First Management Alternatives, not Equifax.

          To verify I had no collections problems, I ordered a 3in1 credit report from Equifax, and I was right, no problems. D'oh! It cost $40 :(
    • Telemarketers need better jobs. The people who pay them to telemarket need painful executions.
  • Yeah, I refused to sign up for these, since this gives people access to a database of phone numbers to dial if they are not bounc by it. I considered the politicians, "charities," etc. but didn't even consider overseas locations that could get the list easily and legally violate it (More cheaply than telemarketers in the states, as well).
  • Does anyone have ideas for tracking them down (i.e. local phone number or stateside address)? The message even seems fraudulent, but I cannot file a complaint with the better business bureau without local phone or address. Any ideas?

    So, call the number, tell them "Yes, I'm interested in your service", etc. Pretend to be interested. They want to sell you something, so if you pretend to be a potential customer, they *will* contact you, tell you who they are, etc.

    And at that point, you can file on them.

  • It is probably this Arlington Texas guy [state.ok.us] . Complain to your state Attorney General. www.naag.org

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