Dealing w/ Online Fraudulent Sellers? 61
Nicholas French asks: "I have recently made a couple of online purchases, one was an Ancient Bronze Amlash ring from
The Antiquities Company which cost me *cough* 'a lot of money' and was backed up by a 'guarantee of authenticity'. The other was a second hand Book Crowds
& Power, via the Amazon
Marketplace, which I have not even received regardless of the numerous emails sent to both the seller and Amazon. I have since taken delivery of the ring and had its metal composition tested...turns out it is actually brass, and not exactly Ancient either! When I approached the seller via email, quoting my money back 'guarantee of authenticity' I was told politely to take a hike. I am considering speaking to Trading standards but am not really sure where to start, so have added myself to the growing numbers of reported Fraud victims on Fraud.Org. Have any other Slashdot readers managed to retrieve their hard earned cash from these Fraudsters, or had any similar problems with large online's such as
Amazon?"
My solution - Russian mafia (Score:2, Funny)
reasonable rates (generally percentage off the money required to get back)
discounts for regular customers
free educational seminar on bad nature of fraud conducted by instructors in leather jackets with baseball bats
boosting scammer's local economy by increasing his medical bills
Chargeback (Score:5, Informative)
Chargeback? (Score:1)
Re:Chargeback (Score:2)
Depends where you're from (Score:2)
Using a credit card for on-line purchases is a smart move in many places, but how smart depends on your local law.
In the UK, AAIU, consumer credit law basically says that the credit card company is jointly and severally liable with the seller if things go wrong (if the seller goes under, for example). Hence you can take the same legal action against the credit card company as you can against the seller to recover your losses.
NB: There are certain restrictions on this UK situation, which you'd have to ch
Chargeback (Score:5, Insightful)
If so, contact your credit card company to initiate a chargeback. For items that you haven't received, you should just have to fill out a form. If the item wasn't as described, you will have to return the item to the seller via insured shipping w/ tracking and indicate the tracking info on the form.
Different credit card companies have different policies, but most of them should be willing to help you out.
obvious (Score:5, Funny)
- doug
well....? (Score:4, Funny)
That's rough (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, my experiences with customer service at Amazon have been extremely helpful, although follow-through has been spotty. There's no question that you should be protected by their guarantee, though. You don't explain what their response was -- are they refusing to honor it?
As far as the other company goes, it sounds like straight-up fraud -- go to the relevant law enforcement people and, in the future, avoid vendors with names like "The Honourable Company". And *always* use a credit card!
Re:That's rough (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, when THIS [google.com] gives you only 8 results, only 1 of them relevant, you KNOW something is up. Nobody has anything to say about these people at all?
With results like that I'm sure you could build a page and get it ranked so that they would loose a ton of business. No matter though I'm sure they're chameleons and would just change the name and site.
A Good Company often has a page [pugetsystems.com] dealing with secure shopping.
More ring online fraud possibilities. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:More ring online fraud possibilities. (Score:2)
Re:More ring online fraud possibilities. (Score:2)
With a "location" that puts Hobbiton in the United States? I don't think so. Otherwise, it's pretty convincing....
Re:More ring online fraud possibilities. (Score:2)
Even the bid of "all the gold in Gondor" doesn't give it away as a Photoshop? ;-)
Re:More ring online fraud possibilities. (Score:1)
Escrow & Chargebacks (Score:3, Informative)
If it is a large purchase, seek out one of the internet's escrow companies. They are used all the time in these matters. You can even have them independantly verify the authenticity of your purchase before money is actually transferred.
Good luck.
--Chris
Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:5, Funny)
It is not bad enough that I am so low and pathetic that I would think of using a service like imaginarygirlfriends.com but then they go and just take my money and make me look like a bigger loser. Of course in the end I did get my money back but only after weeks had passed and many unanswered emails had been sent.
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:3, Funny)
.
OH... MY... GOD..
yes, you pay girls (through them.. they're kind of a 'clean pimp') to pretend to be your (presumably long distance) girlfriend.
excuse me while i go outside and keel over laughing. not at you, but that this really exists. (or have i been had?). someone pinch me, this can't be real. (and no, not because it's what i've been looking for :p). i don't even know where to start with this. thanks for the heads up.
oh the embarrasment
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:2)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:1)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:3, Funny)
But the reality is that you did get your imaginary girlfriend. You just have a very poor imagination.
-Adam
Honestly (Score:1)
I just checked out that website.. Hiring a "girlfriend" is like paying a girl for a lapdance and not seeing titties..
There are plenty of girls out there who want a boyfriend too.
Re:Honestly (Score:1)
What you say is totally true for the average guy. But what you seem to fail to realize is that there is a very small percentage of us guys who have 0% chance of getting a GF.
Why? I don't know. Hell, I went to college and got a degree, I have a good job. I eat healthier than most people I know and I work out at least three times a week. I am honest, ethical, clean, polite. Most eve
Re:Honestly (Score:2)
Relax. Girls are people, too. Just make some friends and enjoy their company. Don't worry about marking this one or that one as "girlfriend" material.
okely dokely (Score:2)
Re:okely dokely (Score:1)
dude you sound like Ned Flanders
Well, I was trying to go out of my way to keep from sounding like some kind of psychopath as then people would be all like "No wonder chicks don't dig you, yer fucked up dude!" In reality I am a pretty screwed up guy. But I don't think that most girls I meet know that, I mean, I keep that side of my personality pretty private and all. Really.
In other news. I've been scouring the P2P sites all day looking for the crazy sex videos involving Pfc. Lynndie England at the A
Re:okely dokely (Score:1)
just give it time...
she is out there...
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yeah I know, I suck. (Score:1)
Did you listen to the page? (Score:2, Insightful)
Amazon Marketplace has a money-back guarantee (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Amazon Marketplace has a money-back guarantee (Score:1)
Scamming the Scammer (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Scamming the Scammer (Score:4, Insightful)
While there are no details on the site, I'd imagine that it was one of the scams all too common on Ebay and the like these days - I'll send you a (fraudulent) cashiers check for $500 over the item's cost, and you send me $500 cash along with the item; when the check bounces, the seller is left liable for the money and has sent an item out for free as well. Of course, this is a despicable action on the buyer's part, but the seller has no evidence of a crime until he or she is sent a fraudlent cashier's check.
All they have to go on is the suspicion a crime will be commited in the near future. Thus, the legal and ethical thing to do would be to either refuse the transaction, or take the check and wait for it to clear (note: that usually takes several days at minimum after you get the money in your bank account). After the check failed to clear, of course, you could feel free to send whatever you liked; it would be a "gift" and the buyer simply would not have paid for the item they bid on. In addition, the police and bank would probably be quite interested in a fraudulent cashier's check and (now proven) scam artist.
The point? In fighting with monsters, take care not to become one yourself. For all you know, the deal was legitimate and you just took some poor bastard's money and sent him $5 worth of crap. If you are worried about a scam, the proper thing to do is to simply back out of the transaction and report it to the proper authorities, not to try to defraud the scammer yourself. While vigilante justice is tempting (and probably justified in this case, if my assumptions are correct), it has a way of eventually encompassing the innocent as well. After all, it would be only too easy for scammers to take others' money and send them nothing if this became commonplace - all they would have to do is argue that "I thought it was a scam, honest!"
More info... (Score:1)
Re:Scamming the Scammer (Score:2)
Re:Scamming the Scammer (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't simply assume the buyer is ripping you off because the escrow agent fakes a Verisign cert - if the buyer is willing to change to a different service, do so; otherwise, simply tell them you don't trust that escrow agent and you won't go through with the transaction if they don't switch. All I see in the PDF is one passing mention of "[D]o you know if the site has a strong digital defense?" That's probably not the best way to let the buyer know you don't trust the escrow service. Instead, come forth with solid reasons (i.e. they fake their cert) instead of one nebulous question.
Reading the account posted at SA, I think the chances are probably about 75% in favor of the buyer's being a scammer. Good odds, no doubt about that. Still, do you want to take the risk of sticking someone innocent with several hundred pounds in customs and shipping fees? To me, this is a clear case of vigilante "justice" overstepping its bounds. If you are worried about a scam, tell the other party and simply refuse the transaction if they continue to act suspicious. Don't try to "scam the scammer" when you might just be scamming an innocent person instead.
Re:Scamming the Scammer (Score:2)
Audition alert (Score:2)
Credit cards vs. other options (Score:5, Informative)
This is precisely why I'll only use a credit card.
Banks and credit card (at least, all of those that I've dealt with) seem to take a very dim view of fraud. I've NEVER had a problem filing a dispute, and getting my money back. I've had unauthorized charges, defective products/equipment that the vendor would not accept for a return, items that failed to live up to their description, and services offered and paid for that were not adequately provided. In every one of these instances, I've been able to successfully get my money back.
Don't pay via any other method than a credit card. Don't use a check; it's notoriously difficult to get money back in the case of check fraud. Using a postal money order depends on your ability to both A) find the seller and B) find someone at the post office who's interested in following it up. DO NOT use a service like Western Union; this is one of the easiest ways for sellers to get your money and just disappear.
Paypal is something of a toss-up. I've asked my bank, and they said that they had no problem disputing a charge with Paypal if an item was sold fraudulently. I have not needed to test this yet, but here are my concerns: First, Paypal may claim that my agreement is with them and not the seller, and that they have fulfilled their part of the bargain: to deliver my money to the seller. I don't know how well that argument would hold up, but I don't relish the idea of having to argue it. I think I'd win, but it woudn't be fun. Second, Paypal may just choose to write off the loss, and send my account to a collection agency, again citing their responsibilities, and the terms and conditions they list on their site. Collection agencies are MUCH harder to argue with, and legally, Paypal may very well be correct. In general, I only use Paypal for items with a relatively small value/selling price.
In just about any instance, using a credit card is better at protecting your interests. There are no guarantees, but here's how the Visa system works:
Buyer gives Seller their credit card. Seller runs the card through Processor. (Whomever is processing their charges for them) This can be a bank or a third-party processor, but usually it's the latter, unless it's a larger company with their own merchant account with a financial institution. Third-party processors are usually a cheaper option for companies or sellers with lower sales numbers. Anyway, Seller gives Processor Buyer's credit card info. Processor runs the card through the Visa system and if it returns an authorization, either immediately deposits the money into Seller's account, or sends them a biweekly/monthly check, depending on their agreement. The Visa system does a test with Buyer's credit card backer (their bank, CC company, etc.) to make sure the funds are available. This is not actually a charge; it's called an "authorization", and will drop off in a few days to a week. The actual charge (called a "posted" charge) comes through anywhere from the same day to a few weeks later, though usually it takes 2-3 days, and again must be initiated by Seller's financial institution, though this is usually automatic.
For a dispute, Buyer's financial institution tells Visa International that the charge was fraudulent, or services were not provided, or whatever. Visa goes to Seller's financial institution and asks for proof that the charge was legit, and Seller's financial institution forwards this request to Seller. This is often quite difficult for Seller, if they do not have your signature. That's the reason most companies require so much verification over the phone/web. If Seller cannot demonstrate that they have provided all products/services promised, the charge is reversed. This is called a "chargeback", and usually costs Seller's financial institution (and thus, Seller), a fee. Most sellers would rather just process the return than get a chargeback, both because of the fee and because it's a black mark on their record. I'm not sure who
Don't be an idiot (Score:5, Insightful)
- It is extremely poorly designed for a website that sells expensive things. The spelling/grammar is screwed up in a few places.
- There is no contact information, no street address, and it's hard to even tell what country they are in.
- They accept Paypal instead of having a normal credit card processor
- They try to sell you vacations and such
- There is no policy page. Nothing is mentioned about returns. Nothing about the authenticity policy is in writing.
- There are many links to suspicious websites
Basically, a web store that looks like this is an obvious scam. And chances are, if it looks like a scam, it probably is.
Re:Don't be an idiot (Score:1)
- spelling/grammar is screwed up in a few places.
- There are many links to suspicious websites
Re:Don't be an idiot (Score:2)
Re:Don't be an idiot (Score:3, Insightful)
Click "contact us" and read: 3 Coventry Road, Bulkington, Bedworth, Warks. CV12 9LY United Kingdom.
- They accept Paypal instead of having a normal credit card processor
Actually, they accept PayPal in addition to a normal credit card processor.
But your point does stand -- it does look dodgy.
The bit that caught my eye was, "We have no current outstanding complaints." It would appear that they hav
Re:Don't be an idiot (Score:2)
Check Amazon's marketplace policy (Score:4, Informative)
Alex.
When in doubt there is no doubt (Score:2)
Pricewatch has gone downhill (Score:2)
Re:Alarm Monitoring services fraud (Score:1)
This happened to me a long time ago in Chicago with a gym membership. I insisted on a clause that let me out of the deal if I was ever more than 20 miles from a gym location that would make use of the gym prohibitive. I wasn't being a dick, but life
Contact Warwickshire Trading Standards ... (Score:1)
3 Coventry Road,
Bulkington,
Bedworth,
Warks.
CV12 9LY
United Kingdom
So your best bet, if you can't claim through your credit card, is to contact Warwickshire Trading Standards [warwickshire.gov.uk].
Your postal inspector is your friend (Score:2)
Re:Your postal inspector is your friend (Score:4, Interesting)
Filing with the Online Better Business Bureau (Score:1)