Schizophrenia Experiences and Suggestions? 1128
Jagercola asks: "My sister was recently diagnosed with Schizophrenia. It's a chronic, severe, and disabling brain disease that we don't know a lot about. The movie, A Beautiful Mind, paints an accurate picture of how the disease affects someone in a best case scenario. I would like the vast audience here to help me understand the disease through experiences and that it might help me aid my sister. If you know someone how has the disease, how has it affected your and their life? How have you been able to cope with it? What are the long term implications for quality of life?"
I understand... but WHY on slashdot? (Score:0, Insightful)
Slashdot? (Score:2, Insightful)
God be with you (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Best case scenario??? (Score:3, Insightful)
please try and understand the difference between "not knowing" and "being a troll"
Close family member had it (Score:4, Insightful)
Best treatment is drugs which seemed to help somewhat. As far as coping watch what you say around the person.
My family has a history of mild schizophrenia (Score:5, Insightful)
Between medicine and education, he's managed to make a decent living as an electrician. They recently put him on a new set of medications, and he seems perfectly normal to talk to now.
Steel Yourself for Responses Here (Score:5, Insightful)
I would take any response you get here with a grain of salt and a suit of armor. Some of it will be geeky resentment at the topic not mentioning an operating system and some will be complete lack of empathy or experience.
Find a newsgroup or a circle of people confronting this illness. Its not well uderstood so its even harder to explain.
There is a schizophrenia.com that looks to have a bunch of stuff to start.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/
ls
serious response (Score:3, Insightful)
Got to say it (Score:2, Insightful)
This sounds really harsh but you (the ask slashdot poster), sound like you're asking about something "weird" or "bad". Remember she is still your sister and because some one said she has a mental disability does not change a thing.
She is the same person she was before the person said it, and she will be the same person years after he has. Try to just "accept it" and don't act like she is disabled or however you perfer to think about it
Re:God be with you (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Remind yourself and your family (Score:4, Insightful)
What you are suggesting the submitter do is just accept that their lives are insignificant and forget about it. If everyone had that view, we would never have built any beautiful cities, there would have been no great art, and humans would be nothing animals, driven by base desire to satify their urge to eat, deficate, urinate, and procreate.
Further, this has NOTHING to do with schizophrenia which is the result of too much dopamine in the brain. There is superficially no difference between someone diagnosed with schizophrenia and someone who has taken too much cocaine or amphetamine. The first thing a doctor checks for when he meets someone who he believes to suffer from schizophrenia is whether or not they have used any stimulants or hallucinagens recently.
It has nothing to do with depression or sadness, this is a disorder that fundamentally affects how you perceive the world and how you think.
Re:I understand... but WHY on slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, I guess we should expect this kind of statement from Slashdot (particularly from an Anonymous Coward), but there are folks with M.D.'s and Ph.D.'s here on Slashdot (like me) and some of these folks work in areas like this. Slashdot is news for nerds and stuff that matters.....right? Well, you might be interested to know what the incidence of schitzophrenia is? I'll give you a hint: It's more common than you thought and it affects a great number of folks that are nerds and folks that use computers. Try thinking of something or someone other than yourself for a change and perhaps you might learn something.
And to those moderators who modded this as insightful?.......Shame on you.
Re:God be with you (Score:5, Insightful)
With that in mind, they are starting to be scientific studies that show the power of prayer and how it helps. People who set out to disprove it, end up getting data that actually supports it.
I guess the bottom line is: Why degrade any form of positive support?
Re:Schizophrenia (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Excuse me (Score:2, Insightful)
You can't prove to me anyone's medical background on here and where some comments might be thought provoking, if you take it at face value you probably deserve what you get.
So medical doctor or not Tyro, your opinion doesn't mean dick on Slashdot.
keep on keepin' on (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a friend that may be schizophrenic. They keep changing the diagnosis between bipolar and schizo. The initial events were pretty scary. She ultimately disappeared for a month or so (both mentally and physically). After some institutionalization and meds, she's much better. I think sticking to the meds is probably the best advice. Of course, with the number of crappy side-effects, I'm sure that will be hard. Avoiding stressors is also good advice, but..yeah...hard to do in a 'normal' life.
But, so far, my friend has been doing quite well and she seems happy and healthy. I think she does get bothered/scared when symptoms flair up (voices, hallucinations, etc.) Something she'll have do deal with for the rest of her life I suppose. But, I'm glad she's alive and with us again. Good luck.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
breaks with reality (Score:2, Insightful)
Finally he had a complete break with reality. Voices...psychic transmissions...shadowy groups controlling his mind, and the minds of those around him...I patiently listened through this, and suggested that while those things might be real, it was also possible that it was schiz, and that he should see a doctor to be sure. if it wasn't schiz, then i would believe him and help him vs. the psychics.
He wasn't too agreeable at first but luckily his parents convinced him to go to a doctor before things got too bad. He was really turning into a danger to himself or others.
Today he is on medication and under therapist supervision. The meds are rough on him but he's making progress. He's taking classes and finally about to go back to school fulltime to get a degree. In time, once the meds get balanced and he learns how to handle it, he'll be leading a perfectly normal, though regulated, life.
He's different now than before, more subdued and less volitile, but its still him. Schiz is very misunderstood, and difficult to treat -- its hard and it takes time, but it can be done.
It's tough (Score:3, Insightful)
I learned that the mental health care system in this country sucks. Unless someone is an imminent danger to themselves or others nobody will see you for several weeks. I made dozens of phone calls saying "my friend is hearing voices". Half of the people were like "suuuure...your friend".
The new medications they have are better than the old stuff. The problem with all mental health medications are that people feel "fine" and decide they don't need the medicine anymore. With schizophrenia, that can have disastrous results (my uncle's friend killed his gf that way). This is sad, but don't expect the person to have the same personality that you remember. They're going to be different and you have to deal with that.
I know it's a goofy Ask Slashdot. But considering that Schizophrenia mostly affects males 18-30, I'm sure several Slashdotters out there are dealing with something similar in some way.
-B
It's Long Term, and recovery is possible (Score:2, Insightful)
The first thing you must accept is that this is long term. No one gets better over night, 12 - 36 months is normal. The medication for the illness is almost as bad as the illness itself; make sure your sister can take all the time she needs to rest. I was sleeping 16 hours a day on average. If your sister was in school, or had a job, she most certainly will not be able to get there everyday. Pushing her to continue school, or continue work is far from a good idea right now. She must take her medication everyday. Missing just one dose doubles the chance of relapse. You and your family may have a hard time coping, but your concern about how you feel that is complete selfishness. Your sister is the one with the illness, and one quote I read "If depression was the common cold of psychological disorders, schizophrenia would be the cancer." is entirely true. She needs a lot of loving care, and she needs to take things very very slow. One question to ask, "What's another year?" What's so bad if it takes her another year to complete school? Forcing herself to live her life as she usually did will have horrific results. She does not need any stress right now - just understanding and comfort.
I lost 2 years of my life to the illness, but I did recover. Recovery is possible, always remember that. It will take a year, maybe 5 years... but 1/3 do recover with no chance of relapse. There are a lot of scary statistics, but as long as she takes her medication everyday, and minimizes her stress, things may improve.
I'm sorry I'm not able to give more specific information, but from the details you gave, that's all I can say now. If you have more questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Long term, even thought I had the illness, I did recover, and I am going onto second year psychology in University for a Ph.D. (My final mark in first year psychology was 90%) Once she recovers, she'll have as good a life as anyone, if not better.
Re:I understand... but WHY on slashdot? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm almost positive there are FAR better places to ask this question than a techno-geek news site. There certainly must be blogs specific to this disease. I'm sure there's been many books written, and medical professionals can be found in better places.
And to those moderators who modded this as insightful?.......Shame on you.
Shame on them? What's wrong with modding something up that probbably 9/10 people thought of when they first read the article? Oh yes, we're never supposed to question the motives of someone who's suffered. Now you "shame" them because they haven't played the appropriate social game. I find that extremely manipulative.
Re:God be with you (Score:2, Insightful)
Progress comes with hands working, not hands praying.
Praying may not help, but what does it hurt? If you don't believe that it does anything, why do you care? No one's suggesting that doctors pray instead of treat, just some random person who isn't working for the cure wants to spend their own time praying. Why do you care?
If you're a rabid atheist or a fundamental religious type, get your flamethrower ready.
Atheism is the only religion I know of that's based around NOT believing something. I mean, I don't believe in ghosts, but I don't go around preaching about it to people who do and I don't call myself an 'aghostist'. If someone told me they were going to commune with the spirits for me, I'd just shrug and get on with my life. I'm an agnostic, so I try not to tell people what to believe. If you want to believe in a religion, go ahead. If you want to not believe something, that's fine too. Just don't preach about it to me EITHER WAY unless I ask you to. Most people who contantly refer to themselves as atheists, however, have more in common with fundamentalists than they like to admit. Personally, I think *anyone* who says they know the answer for sure is deluded. Of course, I could be wrong. Try getting a rabid atheist *or* a rabid religious nut to say that.
Re:God be with you (Score:2, Insightful)
Progress comes with hands working, not hands praying.
Yes, progress does come from hands working. Nobody is suggesting that this person pray for a miracle cure or anything.
Prayer (which is just a form of meditation) can do wonders for calming a person in high stress situations. It might be a good thing for the family members to try...
Re:God be with you (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know if it would help with schizophrenia or not. I don't know enough about how the body's healing mechanisms deal with mental illness. Still, food for thought.
-aiabx
Yes, find out more (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, who would have thought I'd see this on slashdot? It makes little sense to post this question here, but yet, it was posted. And I am reading it. Which is ... interesting, since my brother too was diagnosed with schizophrenia, a little over two years ago now. This thread shouts out to me to say something about it, but I find now that it is harder than it seems.
He's my twin brother, not identical, but still very much a kindred spirit of mine. We got along very well in our youths, and were each other's best friend for many years. But then, slowly, almost unnoticably, we began to grow apart. While I, in my own geekish, unassuming way, started to mature into at least a semblance of adulthood, he seemed to resist it, opting instead to retreat further and further into his own internal world.
His is truly a Beautiful Mind; he is brilliant in many fields, not least language and lingustics. But more often than not, his mind was incorrecly applied, with sad results. For instance, one long period of his life was mostly spent lamenting the fact that the world does not share a single language. It seemed a little funny to others, including me, of course, but to him it was no joke. He would truly suffer emotionally as a result of this and other obsessions.
When the 'crash' came, he had deteriorated quite badly. Although he never did drugs or alchohol of any sort, as is common with schizophrenics, he might as well have. He was unemployed and not in school, moping around the house (our parents' house, where the both of us still lived at the time). He would seldom go outside, and would sit inside his room listening to esoteric music and writing furiously on any scrap of paper he could find. This had been a long-time habit of his, and he was (and is) a brilliant writer, but we would soon find out that these latest writings of his were of a rather sinister nature. It was typical schizophrenic musings; his imagined conversations with a supernatural being who was leading him through some sorts of rites of power, through which he would realize his true spiritual potential. If only that had been true.
Like I said, it has been 2 years now, and the situation isn't much better than it was in the beginning. My brother is still in and out of institutions, heavily medicated, and inactive. He is, frankly, a shell of what he used to be, and we can only hope this will change ... someday. Yes, the film 'A Beautiful Mind' was truly a best-case scenario. Although my brother is probably not a worst-case scenario, he is pretty far from the almost-happy ideal portrayed in the film. He cannot control his fits in any rational manner.
Schizophrenia is not just seeing imaginary people. More often than not, that doesn't happen at all. Extreme, debilitating bouts of irrational, uncomfortable ideas, thoughts and feelings are more common, often followed by hallucinations of many sorts. Most of the time, it is things you cannot simply block out just by concentrating. The disease is hopelessly irrational, and it hijacks the brain completely. In fact, it becomes your brain, in a manner of speaking. How can you use your brain to supress something when it's your brain itself that needs to be supressed?
I know this isn't very comforting, but it is the truth. And, perhaps I myself will feel a little better after having shared this with the world.
Re:Excuse me (Score:1, Insightful)
There are also a lot of intelligent geeks that think they know a lot more than they really do, and will spout a lot of information that looks insightful and informative, but in many cases is underinformed, or just wrong.
People who are asking questions will have a very hard time identifying these people and sorting out the people who actually know what they're talking about.
This can also be a nice place for classic trolling, where someone in either of these categories posts something that is designed to look like it came from an expert, but contains carefully placed inaccuracies just to screw with people.
So, this is the Internet, you have to be wary of pretty much everyone. Asking for stories is alright, if you don't change your life based on them. Asking for medical/legal (and in some cases technical) advice is foolish, even though there are many people qualified to answer.
Re:Support in taking meds (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is balancing helping take medication with harassing her into taking her medicine.
When I was first diagnosed, my family would bug me all the time "did you take your medication", "it's time for your medication", "what do you mean you forgot? You take it every day!"
Whenever I had a bad day, or was just thinking about something, it was a "sign that I hadn't been taking the medication."
After a while, you wonder whom the medication is for? Maybe a sedative for the folks would work out in everyone's best interest.
With alcoholics, after they sober up for a little while they start having family problems. Of course, they've always had them. The alcoholic's problem enabled the family to ignore their own, concentrating on his/hers. When that problem is no longer there, there is a noted tendency for the family to constantly harp on the problem as a tool in every family fight. After a while, the alcoholic starts wondering that, as long as he's getting blamed for it still, he might as well have a drink now and then....
If there've been troubles due to a mental disorder, there's usually some of that there. Don't be fooled by how concerned/relieved people seem by the diagnosis. Watch to make sure that they don't use the diagnosis as an excuse. With daughters it's often an excuse to remove their freedom of choice. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
These are all reasons why people stop taking the medication. Also, they just stop feeling like themselves. Bipolars, such as myself, are well known for getting off medication because they "just don't feel right."
In addition, don't let the doctors bullshit you: some of the medications have side effects. Most of them do. Besides the physical ones, there's the mental ones. Every bipolar I know of has complained about the medication reducing their creativity, and whether or not it's in their head it does seem to be an effect.
Many of the anti-psychotic agents these days are far more gentle than before (the older medications were bad shit), but they're still known to change people a bit.
What I'm saying is that people have very good reasons for mistrusting or disliking the medication. It is important to take it, but don't let the medication be your reasons for interacting. Don't let it be a sword hanging over your relationship.
Treating schizophrenia (Score:2, Insightful)
By treatment, I mean helping them to be who they want to be, not drugging them, electrocuting them or institutionalising them. I hesitate to use the word cure, but as far as you and I are concerned, that is what happens in 60% of his cases.
He does not believe in the dopamine theory of schizophrenia - if that was accurate, a dopamine antagonist would turn schizophrenics into normal people - it doesn't. But he does understand schizophrenics, which is something no-one here (nor even of all the writers of Beautiful Mind) can claim.
He freely provides these understandings, backed by many prominent psychiatrists, on his website [23nlpeople.com], which you'll find interesting in any case.
Chances of you reading this post are slim. But I hope you find it anyway and she may one day thank you for researching beyond the limited help the medical community provides.
schizo... (Score:1, Insightful)
Family Ties That B[l]ind (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean this in all seriousness and without trying to slam mud on the people you love, but
very often mental illness like schizophrenia is not an individual illness, something that some unlucky person just gets like the clap.
Rather, it can be the product of years of upbringing in a particular family environment. And, if you've grown up in a particular family, no matter how out-of-norm the behavior patters happen to be, you will be likely to see yourself and your family as "not too far away from normal".
More than a few case studies have shown how much the family environment has to do with various mental illness.
My advice?
Find a competent family counselor and make some appointments with them so you can start to see the bigger picture, where you might be harboring some misconceptions, ways of thinking that might be doing harm both to your sister and to yourself.
It takes a little courage, but it's worthwhile and you and your sister will feel a lot better in the future.
If you don't seek help, then you condemn yourself to living in the same old behavior patterns that make you and the ones around you sick.
I can sympathise - and some advice, and some hope (Score:4, Insightful)
At the time she was diagnosed I was about 16-17, doing exams, growing up, and being a general teenage boy; she was in the middle of a PhD in physics so was at the other end of the country most of the time. As a result, I only saw here at holidays, and even then I was busy revising and stuff, but I still realised that something wasn't right (I knew she was i'll, but she had also been diagnosed as epileptic around the same time so everything kind of blurred). The most striking thing is that the personality can change quite dramatically, there were times when she seemed like a genuinly different person. This can be as a result of the medication, and the disease.
I personally found this quite hard to deal with, it is very strange seeing someone you thought you knew turn into someone else. I'm not trying to scare you, but it is something that you may need to be prepared for.
As pointed out by another poster, it will take a long time for the doctors to figure out medication levels; mental illness of all kinds is very person specific, there are no drugs or treatments that work for everyone. Electric shock treatment is considered barbaric and horrific by some, while others report that it worked miracles. There are a wide array of anti-psychotics out there, and even the anti-side-effect meds can have a big effect. It is all about finding the balance, and that takes time.
The most important thing that you, and the rest of your family can do is be honest and open. My family are not that close, we don't really talk about personal stuff much, and that caused problems, not just for my sister, but also for me. Remember, mental illness in the family can be quite stressfull, and can affect you. You can only help your sister if you look after yourself. Be open and honest, talk to each other. It is important that you create a supportive environment where there is no stigma, and no secrets about what is going on.
You will need to find a balance between providing support for your sister, and smothering her. She will have to live with her mental illness for the rest of her life, and the best you can do is help her adapt to that reality, and provide support and help when and where she needs it. While medication will help, ultimatly it is down to the individual.
To give you some hope, my sister is now married, has just had a baby, and is starting a part-time course in medical physics. Up untill last year she had held down a high stress job and performed brilliantly, unfortunatly the firm laid off a large proportion of its workforce, closing down her division in the process. She is stable and living life to the full because she took control of her illness, became pro-active in dealing with the doctors (being a born scientist helps
So, don't dispair, keep it real, keep it normal (when she is stable she needs to be in the real world), and keep supporting her. Most importantly, be prepared to just be there and be someone to talk to, or go to when she needs help. Feel free to e-mail me if you need someone to let off steam. Sorry for rambling, I don't have time to make it more concise. Paul
Re:God be with you (Score:2, Insightful)
Police can't afford a sense of humor, because they are too busy busting people for 'crimes against society' and 'crimes against one's own person' and parking in fire lanes and popping sirens to get through red lights and beating down darkies and handing out parking tickets to have a sense of humor. As a desperate attempt to get back to something resembling the topic, many homeless people are suffering from some form of mild-moderate mental illness, and many times they are arrested for being vagrant even though they cannot support themselves. One solution to the 'homeless problem' is to spend some of the money we're currently wasting on the 'war on drugs' to help get mentally ill people off the street, as many of them *could* lead productive lives with minimal supervision. Of course, our society doesn't work that way.
Re:I understand... but WHY on slashdot? (Score:2, Insightful)
'this just isn't the place to discuss it'
The why the hell are you discussing it? Don't like it? Then don't read it and don't reply to it, but don't be so critical of those who choose to post, read and discuss things that YOU're not interested in. There's no rule that I know of that states that geeks must only be interested in tech related subjects, or that people should never ask geeks for their opinions on non-tech questions.
I feel better. Thanks,
fair enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Your description of feeling better off your medication is common... and dangerous. Bipolar patients often feel better off their medication, particularly when they're entering a manic phase. They feel GREAT... I've had them tell me they feel like God. They're often grandiose (obviously), don't need to eat or sleep, and can be very hypersexual (I've seen some of these patients masturbate continuously for hours and hours). Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there... some manics will continue to progress to the point of raving, psychotic madness. Some develop so much psychomotor agitation that they require intubation and IV sedation to prevent rhabdomyolysis.
Like meth/crack abusers/ODs, manics have been known to successfully fight a half-dozen police officers... then drop dead in the back of a patrol car (the human body is capable of a lot more than most people realize... manics are capable of tremendous exertion, and will fight, fight, fight. Exert yourself long enough, and you can dig yourself into a very deep metabolic hole... sometimes so deep that you die as a result).
You can stop your medication... but untreated schizophrenics and bipolars commit suicide, get arrested, etc at a very high rate. It's your choice, but that's a cold comfort to your family visiting you in prison or a funeral home. Choose wisely... somebody out there probably loves you, and would miss you if you were gone.
Re:Family Ties That B[l]ind (Score:3, Insightful)
This is good advice, but I do want to offer a couple of caveats.
- Be aware that a "competent" family counselor is going to charge by the hour at a rate that will make you believe you've been consulting with a neurosurgeon. And there's no way to tell a "competent" counselor from an "incompetent" counselor until after you've consulted with (and paid) them for a while.
- Be also aware that if any member of your family doesn't want to participate or follow the suggestions of the counselor (assuming that you did luck out & find a competent one), then the whole process is ruined. Of course, the counselor is not going to give you a refund.
If your sister hasn't done so already, get a second opinion. Maybe a third. If the original diagnosis was by a psychiatrist, get an opinion from a neurologist (and vice versa). Schizophrenia is an organic disorder. "Talk therapy" (e.g., family counseling) does not treat organic disorders. It may help with whatever "dysfunction" the therapist identifies within your family, but it isn't going to do anything about your sister's disease.Re:A valid point (Score:2, Insightful)
You're the one who posted in a "juvenile fashion."
Personal experience (Score:3, Insightful)
"A Beautiful Mind" is NOT an accurate portrait! (Score:2, Insightful)
Bullshit. Total bullshit.
A person with serious schizophrenia can no more ignore the input of what their brain is telling them than you could simply say that a (real) speeding car heading right for you is "just all in my head." A schizophrenic is receiving input from one part of the brain to another that feels UTTERLY real -- a product of real-world input from their senses -- and they can do little consciously to stop it.
David Cronenberg, in talking about his movie "Spider" (a MUCH more accurate portrayal of mental illness), said that "Mind" was ridiculous and dangerous, i.e., if you have schizophrenia, hey, you can just "deal with it" -- you can just learn to ignore what your brain is telling you (which to YOU, is utterly indistinguishable from objective, externally-confirmable reality), and you'll even get a beautiful woman who looks like Jennifer Connelly to fall in love with you, and STAY by you even though you're delusional to the point of being a danger to yourself and others.
Nonsense!
FYI, I have bipolar disorder, and go through serious manic/depressive phases -- but I wouldn't wish schizophrenia on anyone. (My second cousin has it, and unless she's on her medication, she'll simply wander away from home.) No matter how up/down my moods can get (for limited amounts of time), I always realize the difference between how I feel and how that affects my attitudes about the world AT THAT MOMENT, and I always know that this, too, will pass.
My advice to the original poster is, get reliable, reputable medical attention for your sister, and if she's prescribed medication, make SURE she stays on it. One of the biggest problems with people who are taking drugs for mental illness is, after the symptoms wear off and they "feel better," they often come to the conclusion that they no longer need the medication -- and they quit, with predictable results.
Re:Excuse me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Replace any and all mercury/silver/amalgam fill (Score:3, Insightful)
As they say in statistics, the plural of anecdote isn't data. I fully expect to see several postings of similar tales. In this instance, the Devil's Advocate might note that the friend was under a lot of stress related to marriage trouble, and may have suffered clinically significant mental effecs because of it. She recovered afterwards because a) she divorced the guy that was causing the stress, and b) she could blame the fillings for the divorce and not herself.
A more charitable interpretation is that the 'schizophrenia' was the result of some other undiagnosed disorder--a burst blood vessel in the brain, perhaps.
The symptoms from mercury (heavy metal) poisoning are essentially asymptomatic (non-deterministic)
As they say on Slashdot, I don't think that word means what you think it means...'asymptomatic' means 'without symptoms'. If the chief symptom of poisoning is that there are no symptoms....
The parent poster presents as fact some highly controversial ideas--the 'link' between mercury and schizophrenia or chronic fatique syndrome, for instance. There is a statistically significant increase in the body's mercury load from amalgam fillings, though it is extremely small. Well-controlled, randomized, blind trials have not found a link between mercury amalgam fillings and any illness, though there are ongoing clinical trials in several places.
Perhaps one of the most troubling observations with respect to dental amalgam is the number of individuals who self-diagnose an amalgam related disorder [nih.gov]--of course removal of the fillings cures the psychosomatic illness.
From The Lancet,
Further thoughts--in addition to damaging the teeth during filling replacement (and possibly leading to unnecessary surgery and the associated nonnegligible risks) there are concerns that the replacements for mercury amalgam may be more dangerous to health than the mercury fillings themselves.
Re:Yes, find out more (Score:2, Insightful)
Seeing a rising tide of indicators that the wonder drugs being used to treat personality disorders are, in at least some cases, triggering suicides and extreme behavior is one alarm bell. Are theses rare side effects or an indicator these drugs are not as safe as the manufacturers would have you believe. Its an unfortunate problem that the companies who are developing the drugs to treat mental disorder have an incentive to get as many people as possible to use them, whether they should or not, so they improve their profit margins. Its a really dangerous side to medicine for profit. I'm not sure but I suspect the U.S. is the only country that is letting drug companies engage in the massive advertising campaigns for prescription drugs. Its tolerable for allergy medication and maybe Viagra but its truly scary when you see massive ad campaigns for powerful psychiatric medications.
We humans don't yet have the knowledge to successfully alter the chemistry of the brain without grave risk of doing more harm than good. Yes we can identify some specific chemical imbalances and maybe treat specific things but we simply don't have the holistic understanding of what will happen when we start to dramatically alter the brain's chemistry on the large scale we are doing it today.
As another post said one of their family members committed suicide when their medication was abruptly removed. It appears that when you go down the "medication is the answer to everything" route you end up with people who become completely dependent on medication to function, and when they loose that crutch, they might be in worse shape than if they hadn't started taking it in the first place. That was, at least a possibility in the Beautiful Mind. He was constantly battling with the consequences of taking or not taking medication.
The other angle of this is societal. While there are certainly people with severe mental illness that need to be dealt with one way or another, you have to wonder if we are not a little to eager to make everyone conform to a simplistic ideal of normalcy, and are intolerant of allowing people to be different. Its a lot easier from the view of the herd if everyone thinks and acts like the rest of the herd.
It is more than possible that genius and insanity are intertwined. What happens if we drug everyone who isn't "normal" and conformant in to a stupor. Will we destroy all our genius and all the great artists by trying to suppress their abnormality so they will sit quietly in class and not be a nuisance to the "normal" people.
My God (Score:5, Insightful)
While schizophrenics are often characterized as violent and dangerous (and some definitely are), they are usually more dangerous to themselves... about 10% end up committing suicide. Paranoid schizophrenics can commit violence against those around them, particularly if those people are included as a part of their delusions of persecution.
I'll never forget an older grandmother that a middle-aged daughter brought into my ER... that older family member was schizophrenic, lived with them, and had made dinner for the whole house (BIG family). Thank God the daughter caught the mother as she was stirring the rat poison into the food... a lot of it. (she was convinced the family was trying to kill her, and was going to do them in first).
It happens, folks... and schizophrenia is a life-long illness. One of relatives has an 20-years-past ex-wife that he STILL gets called about every time she gets arrested or institutionalized. Why? She always gives them my uncle's address and phone number as her "husband." Incidently, she always seems to have his current contact info, despite being unlisted/unpublished, despite moving multiple times, and despite the fact that they haven't spoken in 15 years. Yeah... think about that in the wee hours of the morning...
It's already been said, but mental illness is sometimes just as hard on the family as it is on the patient.
Re:Schizophrenia (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ok, let me relay what I currently deal with (Score:3, Insightful)
are you serious? (Score:3, Insightful)
Your ignorance is resoundingly displayed by your invocation of agoraphobia. Bringing up phobias in a discussion about schizophrenia is like sharing your thoughts on bandaids with a guy who's just had an arm ripped off.
The mind is a complex thing. The treatment of it continues to evolve. Modern treatment is not perfect, but to imply that it is unnecessary, as you have just done, is callous and irresponsible.
Re:Just Remember... (Score:1, Insightful)
Homosexuality was in the DSM as a treatable psychological disorder up till 1973.
But for queer politics, it still would be. Anthony Perkins was successfully treated for his homosexual tendencies. No telling now many homosexuals would be successfully treated, but for the fact that the "gay lobby" has guaranteed that homosexuality is going to be treated as a "alternate lifestyle", rather than an illness. Will they remove pedophilia from the DSM next?
Re:Dating a schizophrenic (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Just Remember... (Score:3, Insightful)
The article addresses only unipolar depression, where "talking" and pharmacological therapy are about equally effective. this is not the case for schizophrenia.
Re:pay more attention (Score:3, Insightful)
Mood and consciousness altering drugs are the only drugs commonly prescribed for mental illness, by its very nature. Ask the average joe to name an herb that helps with depression, they might say St. John's Wart. Ask an herbalist, they'll tell you St. John's Wart should never be taken longer than a month and causes severe sun-sensativity. They might recommend Skullcap or Black Cohosh or some other herb or combination of herbs, based on their professional opinion of your overall condition. A psychiatrist will do much the same, substituting, say, Prozac or Wellbutrin. Both will monitor your condition, looking for known side effects and contraindications as treatment progresses, and modify the dose or change the medicine as necesary.
Rather than playing around with self dignosis and treatment, especially when both your condition and the drugs you are taking to treat it alter your consciousness and ability to judge the effects, it is imperative that you get outside help.
my grilffriend (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:fair enough (Score:4, Insightful)
So what if a person masturbates for hours or does other crazy things. So long as they are commited and under medical supervision so they aren't causing problems to other people. I wasn't advocating that individuals behave irresponsibly and simply willy nilly stop taking their medicines. I was suggesting that patients should make the informed choice of whether life on or off the medications (with all the consequences or being commited then if they are a danger to others) is better for them.
Mental illness (Score:2, Insightful)
You cannot help her, no matter how much you may wish to, if she will not first help herself. She does that by taking her meds, seeing the doctor, and going to the therapist.
When things go wonky, and they will, she has to go get help. Right then.
The truth hurts, but it's required. Anyone that is more than a passing friend should be told about it (by HER, not YOU) and asked to say something to her if things look "odd".
Never, ever lie to her. Ever. For any reason, about any thing. You can say, "I don't want to say.", but NEVER lie. If you are unsure, make sure she knows you are unsure.
When you can see the "voices" talking, talk to her. Doesn't much matter about what, but don't let the voices go on unchallanged. Tell her to tell the voices to go away, or what ever.
Isolating, or "decompensating", is a danger signal. Don't let her nest about. Get her out and about.
When you see danger signals, tell her.
Always care, but be prepared to refuse to enable her.
Find and join a support group. You'll need it. So will she.
Really, you will have to find your own balance with her. No one here, including people that have this problem, will be able to give you all the right advice. I was married for almost 20 years to my best friend in life. When she got ill, I hung on for another 4 years or so. She would stop taking her meds, go on a "trip" to the ends of the earth, leave the kids at the mall or somewhere, and run up credit card bills that were more than I made in a year with nothing to show for it. She would lose her car, I'd buy another. She'd abandon her clothes, keeping only what she had on her back, I'd buy more. The hospital bills were something fearsome.
After many, many hospitizlations for her, I had to give up, file for divorce, and cut all ties to save my own sanity, life, and living. Suicide was a frequent thought during that bleek, dark, and depressed time. (Thank God for kids, I think it was the only reason I didn't do it.) The week before I filed for divorce it hit me; I can't fix this problem, nothing I do will make it better. I did nothing to cause the problem, nor did she. I have to let go. It is hard, painful, and depressing, but one thing still holds true. You can't help someone else if you can't help yourself first.
Now go find that support group.
Re:Delusions (Score:3, Insightful)
If you play along with her delusion, you are reinforcing it, which can make her condition worse. She may be voicing her delusions as statements, but she may be doing so to seek input from you without actually asking. So, when she says "The FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me," what she may mean is "Do you think it would be reasonable to believe that the FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me?" By playing along, you're giving your approval to the delusion, which may lead her to believe more firmly in such things. So, I wouldn't recommend that route.
There's no way for you to win - you can't just talk her out of her beliefs instantly - but what you can do is observe facts without offering judgment. So, if she says "The FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me", sasying "no they didn't" won't help, but if you said something more factual and less confrontational like "Hmm. I haven't seen anyone in your trees, and I think it would be awfully difficult to make a camera invisible. Do you think perhaps you might be mistaken?" she might at least think about it, even if what immediately comes out of her mouth is a refutation of what you said.
Alternatively, you could simply state your feelings without disagreeing directly - "Gee, that sounds odd."I try to stay very far away from such people, but then, I've already had my fair share of dealing with the mentally ill in my life.
Re:Technology and Schizophrenia (Score:2, Insightful)
I suggest you read the medical literature. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, there are plenty of nuts on the Internet suggesting a link between aspartame and cancer, alzheimers, "Gulf War Syndrome", etc.. I'm not one of them.
Here are some reputable journal cites.
I'd be happy to examine any contradictory peer reviewed journal published papers you care to cite in return.
Thanks.
Aspartame. Review of safety issues. Council on Scientific Affairs. Journal of the American Medical Association. Vol. 254 No. 3, July 19, 1985
Department of Health and Human Services. Quarterly Report on Adverse Reactions Associated with Aspartame Ingestion. DHHS, Washington, DC, Oct. 1, 1986.
Johns, D. R. Migraine provoked by aspartame. N. Engl. J. Med. 315-456 (1986)
Drake, M.E. Panic attacks and excessive aspartame ingestion. Lancetii: 631 (1986)
Yokogoshi, H., Roberts, C. H., Caballero, B., and Wurtman, R.J. Effects of aspartame and glucose administration on brain and plasma levels of large neutral amino acids and brain 5-hydroxyindoles. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 40: 1-7 (1984).
Fernstrom, J. D., Fernstrom, M. H., and Gillis, M. A. Acute Effects of aspartame on large neutral amino acids and monoamines in rat brain. Life Sci. 32: 1651-1658 (1983).
Stegink, L. D., Filer, L. J., Jr., Baker, G. L., and McDonnell, J. E. Effect of an abuse dose of aspartame upon plasma and erythrocyte levels of amino acids in phenylketonuric heterozygous and normal adults. J. Nutr. 110: 2216-2224 (1980).
Fernstrom, J. D., and Faller, D. V. Neutral amino acids in the brain: Changes in response to food ingestion. J. Neurochem. 30: 1531-1538 (1978)
Oldendorf, W. H. Brain uptake of radiolabeled amino acids, amines, and hexoses after arterial injection. Am. J. Physiol. 221:1629-1639 (1971).
Milner, J. D., Irie, K., and Wurtman, R. J. Effects of phenylalanine on the release of endogenous dopamine from rat striatal slices. J. Neurochem. 47: 1444-1448 (1986).
Pinto, J. M. B., and Maher, T. J. Aspartame administration potentiates pentylenetetrazole- and fluorothyl-induced seizures in mice. Neuropharmacology, in press.
-- Terry
schizophrenia anylis from a schizophrenic (Score:2, Insightful)
sorry to hear that (Score:1, Insightful)
Keep records of what has been tried and what hasn't worked and what did work, because you will undoubtedly be dealing with this illness for a long time. It helps to give the new doctors a history, so they don't start from square one again.
she is doing well now on her current medication (I wish i knew what it was besides Zyprexa), but occassionally she still gets these crazy ideas, like the other day she told me a childhood friend of hers is going to buy her a house. Someone she hasn't seen or spoke with in at least 10 years. I told her the only way she was getting a house is if mom and dad buy it, or if i become rich and buy her one. She did start to realize the absurdity of her thoughts, which is a good sign, because for a long time there, she couldn't distinguish between reality and abnormal thoughts in her head.
The worst time for her was when she was hearing voices. Hopefully, your sister is young, and they can get her on the right medications before things start to deteriorate. Also, if she's on a good medical plan now (like Kaiser), DON'T EVER LEAVE IT - find a way to pay the insurance bill. she will never be accepted anywhere again, and be subject to the state healthcare which sucks.
You sound like you come from a good family, this is very important to be active and supportive in her treatment. Join NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill), and take part in their local meetings. They usually have expert doctors speak who know the latest developments with the medications. A lot of the doctors who are out there don't know shit from shinola. Sometimes you have to push them in a certain direction.
I have been looking for some kind of SETI/FOLDING @ HOME type distributed computing projects which address schizophrenia and/or other mental illnesses I can take part in, so far I haven't found any.
They are making great strides in brain research. Just in the last 20 years, they've come a long way. The medication will only get better and better. SO there is hope.
Make sure the doctor tapers off a medication when ending one, and introducing a new one. We had a problem last year where the doctor outright stopped one of her medications one day, while introducing Abilify (Abilify is the latest med, that is normally supposed to yield amazing results) (Geodon is another good one), and it has taken over a year for her to recover from this stupid mistake by the doctor.
I also have been diagnosed by my doctor as schizophrenia when I experience somewhat similar symptoms of depression and paranoia (without the hallucinations). I'm taking a small dosage of Geodon which they claim has kept me in a healthy state of mind for the last year or two. I tried to talk with my phsyciatrist about whether or not I was really schizophrenia, and if I could go off it. But his response was pretty much once you have it, you are stuck (I think he's more concerned legally than anything). They are usually pretty scared to remove any medication if there's nothing apparently wrong. I was mainly concerned with the diagnose, because now i'm stuck paying the medical bill. I can't take the company plan, because if i loose my job, i will never get on another plan again, unless it's with a company. I still concider myself lucky to be with Kaiser. They are great.
If you want to talk further, send me an email:
motiv8x@yahoo.com