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Education Technology

Large-Scale Paper-To-Digital Conversion? 459

An anonymous reader writes "I've just been asked to digitize several dozen sets of lecture outlines at the university where I work. Basically, professors want to hand me a big (often 100+ page) stack of their handwritten lecture notes (with messy text, equations, and diagrams; sometimes double-sided) and expect me to post a PDF-or-something-similar to their course's web page. However, every desktop scanner I've ever used takes 1-2 minutes of user-attention per page and the resulting files end up Huge, impossible-to-read, or both. All I have at my disposal is my PowerBook, Acrobat, a couple hundred dollars of department funds for a new scanner (this maybe?), and, if I ask nicely, overnight use of the secretary's Win2k box. Any ideas? Sheet-fed scanner recommendations? Better file formats than PDF (or better PDF settings)? Do any of you students have usability advice?"
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Large-Scale Paper-To-Digital Conversion?

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  • Kinkos? (Score:5, Informative)

    by axonal ( 732578 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:30PM (#9231489)
    Some Kinkos have those big goliath Xerox scanners which act just like copiers. Load a stack up papers, and it will scan the pages and load them up. Not sure about PDF export/etc though.
  • High Speed Scanner (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:30PM (#9231501)
    You need a high speed scanner. Fujistu makes a nice one that works pretty well.
  • HP Copiers (Score:3, Informative)

    by kevinank ( 87560 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:31PM (#9231506) Homepage
    The large multi-function HP Printer/Copiers will scan and e-mail a PDF of an entire stack of papers just as you would use a normal copier. I'm sure that the other manufacturers have similar features, but it is the HP equipment that we use at work.
  • HP Digital Sender (Score:5, Informative)

    by Guanix ( 16477 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:31PM (#9231512) Homepage
    The HP Digital Sender [hp.com] series are really great for this stuff. You feed it a stack of paper and it scans it, 15 pages per minute, and can store the PDF on a file server or you can send an email with the PDF attached directly from the network sender! It's a bit expensive, but try to look around for one, maybe the local copyshop? Guan
  • ADF Scanners (Score:5, Informative)

    by Loiosh-de-Taltos ( 247549 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:32PM (#9231521)
    What I suggest and use is the HP 4C scanner. It's a SCSI-II only scanner that can be found on Ebay for under $10 usually. They also have an automatic document feeder option that can be found on Ebay. This scanner was originally designed for both Windows and Apple compatibility as well. It cannot handle 2-sided sheets.

    The scanner has four different pieces of software you can choose to use, I'd suggest Precision Scan Pro as that makes multi-document scanning easier.
  • Definately keep clear of the Scanjet 5550c; there's a reason why it's the cheapest feed scanner out there. It will frequently jam if you a) load more than 5 sheets into the feeder or b) use any sort of paper that has been handled by human beings.

    Our Engineering Society was trying to put up an exam archive with one of them and quickly gave up and started scanning with the flatbed.

    Also the scanner has no sane support (one of the few HP scanners that doesn't)
  • DjVu (Score:4, Informative)

    by alienw ( 585907 ) <alienw.slashdotNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:33PM (#9231541)
    Acrobat sucks ass for bitmap images. It doesn't display them very well, they don't print out well, and the files are huge. DjVu [djvuzone.org] is a new image format that compresses extremely well (a few kilobytes a page -- actually comparable to ASCII text). It's somewhat proprietary, but it's probably the best solution here. There are free web-based services that can compress your images. You can try some of them and see for yourself.
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:5, Informative)

    by zenquest ( 315406 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:37PM (#9231572)
    We have a Xerox WorkCentre Pro 65 at my school. It can scan at around 50-60 pages per minute, and will do double-sided. It will do PDF output, too. (and email it or FTP it to you, if so configured)

    Our teachers use them for exactly the purpose described. If you don't have one of these type machines around anywhere, then definitely give Kinkos or some similar establishment a try.
  • Re:DjVu (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ed Avis ( 5917 ) <ed@membled.com> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:37PM (#9231576) Homepage
    For scanned documents, tic98 [waikato.ac.nz] compresses even better than DjVu. It's free software and you can even read the author's PhD thesis about it.
  • fax (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:37PM (#9231577)
    Many people seem to forget that the cheapest, most common, and most reliable sheet-feed scanner is the old-fasioned fax.

    Use the department funds to sign up an account at interpage.net [interpage.net], which will allow you to fax stuff off to yourself and recieve it as an email attachement. Then use the fax machine in the office to run everything through.

    That takes care of the scanning part; cataloging, organizing, and etc will take a lot more time.

    You may be able to presuade some professors to fax you the stuff themselves, saving you a bit of time.

  • Re:HP Copiers (Score:4, Informative)

    by plankers ( 27660 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:38PM (#9231586) Homepage
    The Konica ones where I work do a similar thing -- they can email you a TIFF or a PDF of a huge stack of paper. Ours are only black & white, and will only do a fixed resolution, but a newer color copier would fix all those shortcomings. Many universities and colleges have print centers that have this type of equipment if your department doesn't.

    Worse case, you can get an HP scanner and the automatic document feeder for it. If this is going to happen a lot it should be pretty easy to justify the $500 or so for the scanner, ADF, and a copy of Acrobat.
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:38PM (#9231590)
    The current price for Scan to PDF at my Kinko's branch is a $25 setup and $.25 per page. Since there are hundreds of pages, you can probably get them to waive the setup, since it's really just there to gouge folks who want a couple pages scanned.
  • Re:HP Digital Sender (Score:4, Informative)

    by W2k ( 540424 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:40PM (#9231608) Journal
    Great product. Unfortunately, its price is listed at about 10x the "few hundred dollars" the original submitter specified in his posting.

    I've found the Canon Canoscan flatbeds do a good job of automatically scanning straight to PDF, only minimal user intervention (hit "enter") is required. There's a special mode for scanning text which enhances contrast, so messy notes and diagrams should be fine, too. The resulting PDF:s are also remarkably small in size for what is essentially a huge bitmap. I've a Canon Canoscan 8000F myself, it's very fast and can do higher DPI's than most people need, and although it might be a bit out of his price range, I'm sure the cheaper models can do the same job nearly as well.
  • Try making GIFs (Score:2, Informative)

    by PapayaSF ( 721268 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:40PM (#9231610) Journal
    GIFs compress very well, especially with source material that's in limited colors. Try making a page into an 8-color or even 4-color GIF at about 150 dpi. The handwriting should be about as readable as the original.

    Also, if you're scanning material with copy on both sides, you might get some visible bleed-through. Try scanning such pages with a sheet of black paper between the page and the lid of the scanner, then adjust contrast to ensure white whites and black blacks.
  • by John Miles ( 108215 ) * on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:41PM (#9231622) Homepage Journal
    I've run into a similar problem, and have no good solutions in the general case. I'm on a mailing list [yahoo.com] for users and collectors of Tektronix test equipment (oscilloscopes, logic and spectrum analyzers, and so forth). Last year, Tektronix's legal department issued a copyright release that permits the reproduction and distribution of documentation for test equipment that they (Tek) no longer support. This was of great interest to the people on the TekScopes list, because it gave a green light to scanning and trading/selling copies of manuals. I've scanned in a few manuals for some equipment I own, and it's a huge pain in the butt any way you look at it.

    Electronic test-equipment manuals are pretty much worst-case candidates for scanning. In Tek's case, the schematic volumes often consist of hundreds of double-sided, nonstandard-sized foldout sheets (11x23" for example) with lots of fine detail that must be reproduced clearly. You can either scan the pages in segments and leave it to the reader to reassemble them, or you can take the manuals to Kinko's and have the foldout pages shrunk to 11x17" or 8.5x11" for scanning. Either way, it's a real hassle, and highlights a clear need for a "prosumer" duplex sheet-feed scanner solution.

    A few years ago you could buy scanners like this one [ebay.com] that could handle arbitrary sheet sizes, but I haven't seen them in stores lately. These may be easier to use than flatbed scanners, assuming the precision they offer is sufficient for your application. I don't know how well they'd work on densely-printed schematics.

    Other than bitching about the state of the scanner marketplace, I don't have much to suggest. There are a few hints that will improve the quality and usability of your final document:
    • There are other formats, like DjVu [lizardtech.com], that have certain advantages over .PDF, but think carefully before using them. Will you be able to read your files 10, 20 years from now? In .PDF's case, the answer is an unequivocal 'yes' because of widespread government, military, and commercial standardization around it. I hate to see people spend hours scanning manuals in DjVu or another nonstandard format, because I'm 95% sure I won't be able to read them years down the road on a completely different platform.
    • To make the document searchable, use an OCR package like FineReader if possible... but expect to spend even more time babysitting the process.
    • Experiment with your scanner resolution settings to minimize the resulting .PDF file size. There's a big difference in size between 200 dpi and 300 dpi, and between a B&W and color scan.
    • For some mysterious, forehead-slapping reason, flatbed scanners often use glossy-white backing material in the lid. This encourages bleedthrough of text on the reverse side of double-sided material, making your scanned documents look sloppy and compress poorly. Placing a sheet of black paper, plastic, or cardboard material between your document and the scanner lid will make a big difference.
  • by felila ( 150701 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:45PM (#9231654)
    I do conversion for fun, at Distributed Proofreaders.

    The problem is the mixture of graphics, equations, and text.

    It's easy enough to turn a page of text into a smallish file. Get a good automatic-feed scanner ($3500 or so) and a copy of ABBYY OCR software. If the original isn't too speckly, tiny, or smudged, ABBYY will give you a 95% accurate text you can then correct. Best format to save in? Depends on what the school is going to do the files. If they're to be posted on web sites, perhaps XHTML. If it's just for preservation, plain text (if there's no Greek characters) or XML with UTF-8.

    Equations -- well, there's supposedly a version of XML for math, but Distributed Proofreaders has ended up using TeX, as it seems to be the mathematical standard. While this would work for preservation, it wouldn't work for a web site.

    For a web site, perhaps the best way would be to intersperse text with pngs of the equations and graphics. The pngs would still take a lot more space than text, but the files would be smaller than PDF versions of the whole page.
  • Re:DjVu (Score:3, Informative)

    by mystik ( 38627 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:46PM (#9231660) Homepage Journal

    I haven't tried tic98 (mentioned lower in this thread) but I can vouch for DjVu. I routinely scan notices, bills and whatnot mailed to me, then destroy them (rather than maintain a large paper file)

    300DPI Black & White scans take about 19kb. They are quite readable, and with 300DPI information, make pretty good printouts.

  • by sabi ( 721 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:46PM (#9231665) Homepage
    Such as the fi-4120c [fcpa.com] is what I'd recommend. You might have to stretch your budget a bit. The cheap HP sheet feeders are very unreliable; we went through two HP 5550c's enduring constant paper jams before switching to a better (Fujitsu) scanner.

    Unfortunately you don't have much use for something like Acrobat Capture because you have handwritten notes to deal with. To process the files, SANE [sane-project.org] and/or TWAIN interfaces are reasonably easy to write code for. The cool thing about SANE is that you can run the saned daemon on any Mac or Linux box, and with a couple of lines of config file changes, it's instantly available over the network from any Mac, Windows, or Unix box (there are TWAIN bridges for Mac [ellert.se]/Windows [ozuzo.net] so it even shows up in Photoshop and so forth); there are also standalone GUI clients like XSane [xsane.org].

    I wrote a document management system in Python/wxWidgets (for Windows) in about a month part-time, and it works very well. Either on Mac or Windows, PDF makes sense because of the ubiquity of the viewers, even if you lose a bit in compression compared to more optimized formats such as DjVu. On Windows you can easily embed the Acrobat ActiveX control; on Mac OS X you have native PDF support, Panther's Preview kicks ass, and there are several open-source PDF browsing components such as the ones out of TeXShop or Glen Low's Graphviz port [pixelglow.com] you can embed in your own app.

    Given a choice I would probably pick the Mac to do this project, because of the wonderful Quartz/CoreGraphics Python bindings. You can just draw right to PDF, and place PDF files as if they were images; for example, here's a short script to rotate a bunch of PDF files (sorry, Slashdot destroys Python indentation):

    #!/usr/bin/python

    from CoreGraphics import *
    import math, sys

    for inputPDFPath in sys.argv[1:]:
    inputProvider = CGDataProviderCreateWithFilename(inputPDFPath)
    &n bsp; inputPDF = CGPDFDocumentCreateWithProvider(inputProvider)
    &n bsp; if inputPDF is None:
    print >> sys.stderr, \
    "unable to open '%s': perhaps is not a PDF file?" % inputPDFPath
    continue
    outputContext = CGPDFContextCreateWithFilename(
    inputPDFPath + '-rotated.pdf', None)

    for pageNumber in xrange(1, inputPDF.getNumberOfPages() + 1):
    mediaBox = inputPDF.getMediaBox(pageNumber)
    rotatedBox = CGRectMake(0, 0, mediaBox.getMaxY(), mediaBox.getMaxX())
    outputContext.beginPage(rotatedBox)
    outputContext.saveGState()
    outputContext.translateCTM(0, rotatedBox.size.height)
    outputContext.rotateCTM(-math.pi/2)
    outputContext.drawPDFDocument(mediaBox, inputPDF, pageNumber)
    outputContext.restoreGState()
    outputContext.endPage()
    outputContext.finish()
    You could also use ReportLab [reportlab.org], but because a lot of the PDF processing code is written in Python it's somewhat slower and memory-hogging for high-volume use. (I used ReportLab on Windows for the above project, and use CoreGraphics Python bindings for my research, so I do know what I'm talking about mostly :)
  • Re:HP Copiers (Score:2, Informative)

    by kevinank ( 87560 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:47PM (#9231671) Homepage
    The big copiers run a couple of thousand dollars, but the multi-function fax/scanner/printers from HP are in the approximate price range and are all able to scan stacks of paper rather than individual sheets. The easiest way to get one of the large printers for less that a few hundred dollars is to start calling alumni who work for HP and ask them if they'll make an equipment donation.
  • My dad's office (Score:5, Informative)

    by pavera ( 320634 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:49PM (#9231698) Homepage Journal
    My father is an attorney,
    he has a couple of high speed scanners from panasonic. They cost less than a thousand dollars (4-500) if I remember correctly, they scan at about 20 ppm, and the software that came with them will save each scanned group of pages as a separate document (pdf, tif, whatever). My dad uses this setup to scan all of the files that his cases generate (shrinking his document storage from about 1000 sq ft to 2 shelves in a bookcase). we are talking files that consist of 10,000+ pages, and normally he saves a years worth of cases on 3-4 cds. They can scan up to 500 pages at a time.
    Here is a link:
    High Speed Scanners [panasonic.co.jp]
  • Re:Format (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chuckaluphagus ( 111487 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:52PM (#9231722)
    I have to scan and store very high-res black-and-white images for work, and I've found that the best format to save in is TIF with a CCITT Fax 4 compression. It will only work for black-and-white files, but for a full page of text and graphics scanned at 2-color, 600 dpi, you can get a file about 100 kbyte. The image quality is superb, and it's far, far more efficient than PDF.

    The program I use to convert to TIF is IrfanView (http://www.irfanview.com/), a generally excellent image viewer. I'ts free, too, so no worries there. It offers a ton of options for compression settings for different formats, so you can try other file formats as needed.
  • by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:53PM (#9231727)
    Do NOT get that HP scanner. I have the same model, and while the hardware is just fine, HP's scanning software is garbage.

    I run paperport to store all of my bills, documents, etc. The HP scanner software simply will-not use the resolutions and options I want paperport to use (200 DPI, B&W).

    When using the sheetfeeder, the damn thing always scans in 24bit at 200DPI no matter what I try and set as a default - then I have to manually convert every page.

    Go with a different model.

    N.
  • HP9200C? (Score:3, Informative)

    by MrChuck ( 14227 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @02:55PM (#9231747)
    We have one at work. You put in a pile of papers, tell it "go" and it emails a PDF of each to you. I've been struggling without a manual to reconfigure it a bit.

    Cheap? Dunno. It was just there. In any sort of volume though, the cost drops precipitously (cheaper that you doing a flatbed scanner!).

    Check out something like that (or indeed that) used, use it, resell it. Or new, then use/resell. Or get the school to buy it.

    If this is a continuous thing, then all the better to own.

  • by adamsc ( 985 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:05PM (#9231829) Homepage
    Check whether any of the photocopiers around campus support scanning: we have a Canon ImageRunner in one of the labs which I support. It's extremely fast - ~1 second per page for a double-sided scan and the feeder is pretty robust - we have grad students who take handwritten lecture notes for an entire class and dump this stack of a couple hundred crumpled pages into the feeder and end up with a PDF a couple minutes later.
  • Re:Format (Score:3, Informative)

    by alannon ( 54117 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:09PM (#9231861)
    Storing what you describe as a PDF should be almost the same size as the TIFF you describe, except for the small overhead of the PDF wrapper. PDFs support CCITT Fax 3 & 4, as well as ZIP & run-length compression on monochrome images.

    I run a micro-publishing business which often involves scanning a lot of B&W images at high resolution. I'll agree that storing files as TIFFs makes them much easier to edit, though. Our final publishing happens as PDFs, though, and it does not bloat the size of the images.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:13PM (#9231892)
    Sigh... In THE VERY SAME PACKAGE! Is reading documentation contained in tarballs you download really *that* hard?!
  • Re:ADF Scanners (Score:3, Informative)

    by LightForce3 ( 450105 ) <lightforce3@[ ]oo.com ['yah' in gap]> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:17PM (#9231913) Homepage
    I agree, an ADF scanner is definitely the way to go on your budget. However, I'd recommend purchasing a new one instead of buying used, especially since you'll be doing high-volume work. I'd also be wary of HP scanners, as I've had bad experiences with their PrecisionScan Pro software, and have been told that in general HP software is sub-par.
  • PDF settings (Score:2, Informative)

    by mdkemp ( 720790 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:20PM (#9231931)
    If you intend for people to print this stuff out, PDF is definitely the file format of choice. The size of the resulting files will largely depend on the scanning resolution and color settings you use, as well as the type of compression in the PDF.

    If the lecture notes you're scanning don't contain any grayscale or color graphics, your best bet is to scan in black-and-white mode (as opposed to color or grayscale) for smallest file size. I'd suggest scanning at 300 DPI for sharp-looking printouts. Be sure to play around with the "threshold" value (or equivalent) in your scanning software until you figure out what looks best. If it's not set to a good level, text may look too thick and blocky, or thin lines might disappear completely.

    Once you have a monochrome scan, you'll want to save in a lossless compression format that preserves the monochrome attribute of the image, such as compressed TIF, and not as JPEG. When exporting to PDF, you could experiment with both ZIP and fax (CCITT group 3/4) compression types -- both compress black-and-white images very well. If your PDF software doesn't have those options, the default should probably be good enough. Even at 300 DPI, most pages should fit into about 30K or so.

  • by needacoolnickname ( 716083 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:20PM (#9231932)
    Most universities already have this service. The professor might not know it exists, but check the other departments to see if they have one (not the scanner - but the service at the school). It is usually somewhat intertwined with a Distance Learning center or department.

    It takes away the cost of printing lectures/notes/required readings from the departments and tacks it onto the students who now seem to pay for printing above a certain limit in the labs.

    At least this is the way at the universities I have worked at.
  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:2, Informative)

    by gkuz ( 706134 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:29PM (#9232000)
    Xerox Docutechs, which scan in many hundreds of sheets at once to print copies of documents. The scanning takes barely a second a page, and it wouldn't surprise me if the document format being stored inside the docutech is something that can be used for this purpose.

    Truly, ignorance is bliss. This is clearly written by someone who has seen a DocuTech only from a distance.

    We have three of them where I work, and I have worked very very closely with them on a number of projects. Sure, they scan quickly, but you can't get the data out of them. They are copiers, essentially.

  • Re:DjVu (Score:2, Informative)

    by jskiff ( 746548 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:33PM (#9232025) Homepage
    Disclaimer: I work for the company the sells the commercial version of DjVu [lizardtech.com], LizardTech

    DjVu is licensed from AT&T labs, and has both a commercial component and an open source [sourceforge.net] component called DjVuLibre. The technology works by analyzing documents, particularly scanned color documents, for hard edges. Hard edges typically indicate text, while smooth, continuous tones indicate background images. DjVu then "segments" the two types of imagery on the page into different layers and compresses them using different formats for optimal compression and quality.

    Okay, enough marketing. While it does have some warts, it's a pretty cool technology to work with. That, of course, and I'm happy to have any job these days.
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:4, Informative)

    by zenquest ( 315406 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:38PM (#9232048)
    Going to Kinkos? Yeah, it's a bit pricey, but not totally out of bounds.

    If he's at a large university, some other department might have one of these. Xerox doesn't charge for scans when you lease the machine. They only charge for how many prints or copies are made, so it would be essentially free for another department to allow him use their machine. It doesn't even require any additional setup, since you can enter any email address into the machine and have it send the document there directly from the copier. (assuming the SMTP server has been set on the machine)
  • PDF Settings (Score:3, Informative)

    by AvitarX ( 172628 ) <me@brandywinehund r e d .org> on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:44PM (#9232088) Journal
    I've been reading a few minutes and nobody seams to address your setting etc.

    The you should scan in grey-scale or if there is high enough contrast (pen notes, not pencil) in Black and White. The grey-scale with a JPEG medium or even low compressions is going to be much smaller then the deafaults. A pure black and white with group four compression will be even better. At work we scan pages at 300 DPI that way and get 20 to 30 k files (I think, haven't done it for a while).

    Also typically images for web viewing of even text are scanned at 72 dpi (all the scholarly journals at my university). This can make things hard to read but really shrinks the file (about 1/16th the size of 300 dpi).

    Also if the scanner is set low res pure black and white it will scan a lot faster, but still be pretty slow.

    The other option is to pay someone to do it. If you have all of the stuff ready at once and give the pros a week or so to do it when they aren't busy you can probably get as low as 50 cents a page.

    Blah blah, I lost my train of thought 2 paragraphs ago
  • by capsteve ( 4595 ) * on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:45PM (#9232099) Homepage Journal
    being in the prepress industry, i see more and more traditional printing going the way of xerography. of the competitors in the field, xerox probably has the best system with the docutech series... you may want to consider kinko's which is an authorized user/vendor of the docutech system.

    on a side note, if the professors are utilizing a lot of additional material which includes might include3 handwritten information, you might consider getting encouraging them to transcribe that material(hopefully your not the TA that has to do the transcription) into a digital for, be it text or WORD. this'll difinitely help in reducing the size of your files.

    also consider looking into adobe's pdf service, [adobe.com] if you're overwhelmed with just orginizing the material itself. probably not so kosher to suggest ity on /. but it could be something the school already has an agreement with adobe(taking into account the units of acrobat the school itself might be using). i know it's not rolling your own, but sometimes using an "out of the box" solution to get thing up and running so you can explore other solutions has it's merit as well...

  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:2, Informative)

    by curator_thew ( 778098 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:48PM (#9232122)
    Fair use for educational purposes has narrowed. In patent law, Madey v Duke 2002 found that a university wasn't allowed a non-commercial exception because "experimentation" was "furthering the business aims of the university". Yes, this was a hugely contentious case.
  • by deranged unix nut ( 20524 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @03:53PM (#9232155) Homepage
    Since purchasing a Canon G2 (4 megapixel) digital camera, I have discovered that it works pretty well for producing readable quality duplications of 8.5"x11" sheets of paper and whiteboard notes.

    This camera can be controlled programatically. Automation would be needed to make it practical for a large scale, but it is much quicker than most flat-bed scanners and the quality would be okay for hand-written notes. It would be easy to take multiple overlapping pictures and leave it to software to re-assemble the images.

    (Yes, it is a goofy solution, but I works well for me as I normally have my camera handy.)
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:2, Informative)

    by glowurm ( 518048 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:03PM (#9232205)
    Confirmed. Your local Kinko's should have the resources to scan the pages to PDF in an automated fashion. Call around and talk to a couple of locations, if necessary, to get the proper terms and pricing, but it should run about US$0.25 per page. The software used at the Kinko's I'm on familiar terms with (intimately familiar - too much work done there) uses Canon hardware and software and can burn the resulting files on to CD for you (at a cost of US$9.95/cd, of course!)

    They can usually do up to tabloid size sheets (11"x17") through the feeder, and expect a turn-around time of 24 hours or so. They can also do OCR scans on the resulting files. The OCR conversion runs around US$9.95 for the first page, and US$2.50-ish for additional pages, and they won't do any correcting of the errors such that result from software retardedness unless you pay extra. It hurts, but if you gotta have it...

    Good luck!
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Luzumsuz Lazim ( 603227 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:05PM (#9232221)
    Our department has Konica 7165 copier [konicaminolta.com], which has the scan-to-email capability. It can e-mail the scanned document as multi-page-pdf or tiff files, thus you don't need to convert it to pdf page by page.

    And, use a low resolution setting (say 100dpi) for handwritten documents. It will do just fine. Pdf (depending on the driver though) compresses the image. If you use a machine something like the Konica, try to set the threshold/brightness to a level such that the empty portion of the pages will appear as plain white; this will increase the compression ratio significantly.

    So, my recommendation is that try to find a Kinkos which has this type of machine. If you can't find, just tell the professors that it is simply not a reasonable task that can be done in finite time.
  • by Danh ( 79528 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:16PM (#9232269) Homepage
    If you want to do a good job, you have to type it, in LaTeX. It's the only way to get something nice and something the professors will be able to enhance in future.

    If a digitized copy of the manuscripts will do for you, you can go the scan -> image enhancement -> OCR -> save to PDF way.

    For scanning, you already got a lot of good comments how to automatise the scanning of dozens of scripts. If you lack these possibilities also a SCSI or USB desktop scanner should do the job (it's definitely less than 1 min per page), so you scan a script in 2 hours. No need to bother to outsource the job to India. Probably you can scan B/W and don't need greyscale or colors. I would scan handwritten scripts at 200 DPI and save the whole pictures in front of the OCRed text, so the user doesn't see the OCRed text and can only use it for selecting and copy&paste. It would be too much work to correct the OCRed text here. For machine written text I would use 300 dpi or more for better OCRing.

    As image enhancement you only need to be able to automatically orient the page so that the text is horizontal. I don't remember if Acrobat does it, but for this job I would anyhow get a good OCR program.

    As OCR program I recommend FineReader, but also Omnipage is ok. FineReader does better OCR than Omnipage and Acrobat. It also saves better to PDF (with retaining all of the paragraph structure) than Omnipage.

    If you keep the image before the OCRed text in the PDF you can expect files of 10MB for 100 pages for B/W scan at 200 dpi. OCRing of machine written text has become incredibly accurate, so you can do real OCR there and throw away the bitmap picture. This of course gives much nicer output (and smaller filesize), but you need to spend a lot of time correcting the text. Here the best OCR program really pays off (you probably have a lot of words which are not in a dict, need custom dicts (does Acrobat have them?),...). A program with a single flaw (e.g. that recognized you formula as text, or code as paragraph text,...) will let you waste a lot of time correcting it on every second page.

  • Re:HP Digital Sender (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zak3056 ( 69287 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:21PM (#9232292) Journal
    The HP Digital Sender series are really great for this stuff. You feed it a stack of paper and it scans it, 15 pages per minute, and can store the PDF on a file server or you can send an email with the PDF attached directly from the network sender!

    I have one of these on my office network, and and I agree that they're pretty good machines--though I have some complaints about them.

    First off, I don't believe their functionality justifies the $3100 price tag. While the feature set it good, for that kind of money, this thing should be able to OCR, and not have to rely on 3rd party software for that functionality.

    Secondly, their "scan to file server" feature requires a server side daemon to run--you can't simply drop the document to an SMB or NFS server. Further, the daemon only runs on WinNT/2k/XP systems, and you need to do a little bit of hacking to get it to run as a service, instead of opening it manually (or via startup folder) on login.

    Third, it can be DOG SLOW. In particular, when scanning multiple large jobs (particularly at higher resolution) the thing will bog down. It also can only handle a fairly small number of jobs in queue at any one time. One of our secretaries can fill its queue in short order, and have to wait about ten minutes before she can scan the next document packet. When she's trying to scan a hundred packets, this essentially becomes her main focus for a work day.

    All in all, our Toshiba copiers seem to do the same job better--of course, they have their own problems (i.e. over $20k each, with a poor user interface, and they don't do color, and don't OCR either.)

  • by kingsy ( 782314 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:25PM (#9232313)
    The answer is simple. You are at a university. MOST modern photocopiers do inbuilt pdf conversion or OCR'ing to network drives or email. Find one of them.
  • 8100C (Score:3, Informative)

    by MushMouth ( 5650 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:33PM (#9232365) Homepage
    They no longer make it but they can be found on ebay for a few hundred bucks [ebay.com] and no I am not selling this one or one at all.
  • by jayminer ( 692836 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:42PM (#9232428) Homepage
    This [abbyy.com] claims hardwriting recognition. (Although it requires some sort of structure in the OCR'd page I think)/
  • How I Do It (Score:3, Informative)

    by MSInsight ( 647382 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:52PM (#9232499)
    I scan and upload various land use and financial documents for a county and its townships to the internet on a shoe-string budget - actually, no budget - all volunteer, public service for fellow citizens. This is my prescription:

    Stay with your current flat-bed scanner. Do not waste money on a sheet-fed scanner. You do not have nearly enough money for a high-end Fujitsu or Bell & Howell sheet-fed scanner which will reliably get the job done without mechanically screwing up. The pros use high-end scanners because they never screw up and they go fast. Cheap sheet-fed scanners miss sheets or jam up too often to trust them with anything. Make a sign-up sheet for work-study or volunteer students in your academic department to sit down at your computer and scanner and scan the documents into the computer. Give them free pops and gummy bears (slur it so it sounds like "rum & beers") or something similar which won't transfer from fingers to documents. Just take a few minutes to set them up and show them what to do. Keep it simple. Let those empty minds waiting to be filled with knowledge (and beer) do the time consuming zombie work. You should focus your attention on how to put the files on the website.

    The scan file format I use is Portable Network Graphics format or PNG format. On average, it compresses black and white graphics 20-25 percent smaller than the widely used GIF format. PNG format is also supported to a basic enough level to be displayed using MS Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mozilla, and other internet browsers.

    I use free Xsane scanning software on a linux system to scan the documents. Xsane can be set to scan in line-art mode, also known as black and white mode. This software can also be set to save files directly to disk in PNG format and automatically change the file names using numerical iteration, i.e., file-01.png, file-02.png, file-03.png, etc. without the need for human intervention to change the file name each time. I use a 100 dpi scan resolution setting because documents do not need to look ultra-smooth; they just have to be legible. Anything beyond that is a waste of hard drive space. Using this resolution also means I do not have to spend time embedding the graphic file in html code to constrain its width so it can be viewed on the average 15", 800x600 resolution monitor. I just insert weblinks to the individual, one-page graphic files: "Page 1, 2, 3, 4, ...", with each page number hyperlinked to a corresponding graphic file. Your graphic files will run 15-25kb each. The use of PDF graphics format is a waste of time and space unless a professor gives you a MS Word file of their lecture notes which you can convert directly into a PDF file with embedded text. That is the only case in which I would use PDF over PNG. Good luck.
  • High volume scanning (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @04:53PM (#9232501)
    I work for a scanning service, we do hundreds of boxes of paper at a time. I can only speak to the really high volume scanners, and Kodak is the best, hands down. Most of them are actually two scanners in one, one for the front and one for the back. An i830 will do about 80 ppm both sides at 200 dpi. That's a $64K scanner. I think the Slashdotters gave you a pretty good list of less expensive models. If it's all clean stacks of mostly white paper a less expensive scanner will do well. More expensive scanners are not only faster, but recognize contrast better (even black writing on pink paper) and feed torn, curled or irregular paper better.

    Equally important is good scanning software that will break up your images into the files you want. Software can read bar coded sheets of paper to start new documents, or to index them in a database. Legal firms use software to match a database to the Bates stamps that ID files submitted in discovery. Software can remove the black border around the page, de-skew the image, or de-speckle the image.

    As for PDF, it's a great choice compared to a lot of formats. And with Acrobat, you can do bulk conversion of multi-page tiffs to PDF in one pass.

    A service bureau will do the job for less than 10 cents a page.

    My throw-away email account is bugmenot@fastmail.us in case of questions.

    Hope this helps

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:01PM (#9232559)
    The university I attended also had similar services for disabled students, so that's another place to check. Scanning and OCR is invaluable for blind students.
  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:5, Informative)

    by Man Eating Duck ( 534479 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:11PM (#9232621)

    I've been working with various versions of the Docutech system for about six years, and they're in use in most of the professional copy/print shops around, at least in Scandinavia. They scan full page and double sided, 600 dpi at about 1 page/sec. Newer versions also can handle full colour.

    Native document format is tiff images with a proprietary control file (structuring, positioning etc), but you can easily convert it to pdf.

    I'd guess that a professional shop will charge you about 30 cents a page if you accept the raw document files without 'touching up'. This is more than adequate if you're just going to reproduce it on paper, or even distribute the PDFs. It'll weigh in at about 100k a page for the tiff format, and a lot less for the PDFs. This is black and white, which in most cases will suffice.

    Professional equipment (as in contracting a print shop) is definitely the way to go. I know that at the University of Oslo, Norway, they have established an in-house shop that will do this type of work internally for just about cost. Maybe that's an idea to put forth to the management? Surely your university will find other uses for it than just your assignment.

    Hope this helps :)
  • by adrew ( 468320 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:12PM (#9232625)
    We've [georgiasouthern.edu] undertaken a pretty large archiving job [georgiasouthern.edu] at my university. We're scanning every page of every newspaper we've ever printed (started in 1927) up to the time we have digital archives starting around 1993 or so. We're also scanning about 80 300 page yearbooks. Hopefully this can offer you some help or suggestions.

    We have a dual-processor G4 and an Epson 1640XL large-format FireWire scanner [epson.com] with the optional auto document feeder. It's probably a bit out of your budget ($2899 + ~$1200 for the ADF) but it's awesome. It can scan at up to 1600dpi and the ADF can automatically duplex and scan both sides of the page. We're using OmniPage Pro X for OCR software.

    Right now we're more concerned with scanning the documents and getting them online, so we haven't started OCR'ing everything yet. But the ADF is awesome. It can scan both sides of all 300+ pages of a yearbook automatically in about 2 1/2 hours.

    The newspapers are a bit different. They're getting a bit fragile in their old age so we have to manually scan them. We scan them at 300dpi in full color, so the 12x18 pages are around 50MB per page. But the scanner takes less than a minute per page. It's impressive.

    We use Photoshop's web gallery feature to generate the image galleries. Pretty simple really. Let me know if you have any questions.
  • by s.a.m ( 92412 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:15PM (#9232646) Journal
    Hopefully you'll get to read this one and hopefully it won't get modded down to oblivion.

    Yes there are scanners out there that can work for you. I have a Canon DR-5020 which we just feed it a ton of paper and come back in a few and it's done. It can scan VERY quickly. PDF format would work just fine as well. It's the best option especially since it's hand written notes as well.

    If this is a requirement which is going to be on-going then you will have to pony up the money and spend a few thousand. If you're not ready to do that, you may be in luck. Some places will lease it out to you and with that few hundred bucks I'm sure you can easily get a hold of one for about a week or 2.

    Look up for people who do Document Imaging, and you should find a lot of business that come up. If you're in the washington dc area then maybe I can help you out quite a bit.
  • Re:ADF Scanners (Score:3, Informative)

    by silverhalide ( 584408 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:15PM (#9232647)
    I have used this setup to scan in tens of thousands of pages. All you need is Adobe Acrobat 4 or 5 (full version) and the Deskscan driver. Drop a stack in, click scan, and walk off and go do something. Come back in 5 minutes, put the pile back in to scan the back sides, click continue, you're done. Acrobat automatically interweaves the fronts and backs for you so the no-duplex thing is a non-issue. Ideal speed/quality settings: 300 dpi black and white threshold scanning. Tweak the threshold for the first page, should be good for the rest of them... Resulting files are 30-40k a page and look great when reproduced on a laser printer.
  • by remolacha ( 473415 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:21PM (#9232668)
    we've gotten a bunch of jobs like this - turning handwritten documents into searchable pdfs - and had a lot of luck sending them to firms in india, either by sending the documents snailmail or scanning with a sheet feeder and ftp'ing. the firm we got the best results from was called suntec, suntecindia.com I believe. I know outsourcing is a touchy subject these days, but they were all set up for this, we weren't, and their prices were quite good.
  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:23PM (#9232680)
    Uhhh we regularly use docutechs to convert from printed matter -> tiff -> pdf.

    I assumed all models allowed this, but I guess not.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @05:54PM (#9232857)
    I work in the library at the University that I go to. We have something called "E-Reserves" where a professor can submit a bunch of documents that they want available for students to download and view on their computer. We recently set up a really neat system consisting of a sheet-fed scanner, a piece of software from Doculex called "Gobe" in combination with some scripts that we wrote. Here's how it works:

    1) Professor submits stack of documents
    2) A person at the library makes sure all the copyright stuff is in order.
    3) For each document, a piece of software that's part of Gobe is used to create a "cover sheet"
    4) Each of the documents are stacked on top of eachother with a cover sheet on top of each
    5) The stack is placed in a sheet-fed scanner
    6) Hit go
    7) ???
    8) It's on the web in 10 minutes!
  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @06:05PM (#9232928)
    LaTeX

    If the professors are doing lecture notes with many equations they might consider putting the notes in LaTeX format...

    Its really the best way to do lecture notes that can be edited... far more useful than a pdf file of a scan of hand written notes.

    Of course that makes things easy on you by making things hard for them...
  • Re:8100C (Score:3, Informative)

    by larkost ( 79011 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @07:09PM (#9233328)
    I use a 8100c on a daily basis, and it is a good little machine, but their are a few gotcha's:

    The color tiffs use a depreciated form of tiff that was rescinded from the standard as unworkable. On top of that, the version they use does not work with an variant of libTiff. Basically you are stuck working with a few windows programs... and graphics converter on the Mac. Photoshop with sometimes even choke on them.

    When we try and scan yellow documents the scanner will occasionally freeze up. It seems to happen sooner in tiff mode, later in PDF mode... but eventually it just freezes and has t be rebooted. Reloading firmware does nothing to abate this.

    Oh... and it does mean that the scanner has to feed a windows box, as I have not found a means of attaching it to anything else.
  • Re:ADF Scanners (Score:3, Informative)

    by detritus. ( 46421 ) * on Sunday May 23, 2004 @07:27PM (#9233429)
    I definitely second this recommendation. IMO, one of the best scanners ever made. I have a newer usb HP scanner that doesn't even come close to the speed of this thing. They just don't make bulky, well built quality scanners like the 4C anymore.

    And for the record, you aren't limited to only 4 software applications for scanning (at least in Windows, any application will work if it uses TWAIN). Perhaps you were referring to the document feeder having limited software compatibility?

    (Off topic, but amusing nonetheless if you didn't know, there's an easter egg [eeggs.com] that's quite humorous..)
  • Re:Fax machine (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 23, 2004 @07:40PM (#9233518)
    Don't rely on faxing.

    Fax on a computer is actually TIFFg3 format, created by Sam Leffler whose name is on all the old BSD UNIX copyrights. It's a wonderful tool, and a wonderful format, and easily transformed to other needed formats by the various tools in the TIFF library still published by Sam, but faxes provide only 196 dots per inch at "fine" resolution, and that's usually not good enough for documents and hand-written notes.

    A good flatbed scanner is really your friend, for price and performance.
  • by jensend ( 71114 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @07:46PM (#9233553)
    Bunk. DjVu has an open-source implementation [sf.net] and well-documented specs. It will thus be readable no matter what happens to LizardTech. Similarly, the main reason PDF can be counted on to be readable in the distant future is not its installed user base (that changes quickly enough to be fairly well negated as an advantage over the 10-20 year timespan you suggest), but rather that it is an open format.

    DjVu is probably the best format for the poster's needs. I had a university class where nothing was ever handed out to students in hard copy and documents were instead posted on the web; .doc was used for the kind of documents PDF is good for, while PDF was used for scanned-in (but not OCR'd) articles and so forth. This was a nightmare; the PDFs were absolutely huge, and just scrolling through them would bring a >1ghz computer to its knees. It would even have been better to use uncompressed TIFFs.
  • Re:Kinkos? (Score:2, Informative)

    by digitalrust ( 129235 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:06PM (#9233663) Homepage
    At the FedEx Kinko's where I work (dig the new name), we use the Canon ImageRunner 105 and scan directly into Acrobat. It's very convenient and pretty fast. We have control over dpi of the scan, pure B/W vs. greyscale, and minimal halftone settings. There's no company-defined pricing for this; we charge $0.25 per page, with a $10 minimum. It creates huge files though, unless you reduce the dpi of the scan.

    Another option is to look in the phone book under "litigation copying" or "legal copying". Lawyers often scan thousands of legal documents and have them indexed by keyword. Data entry people get paid to skim each document to record the keywords before the documents are actually scanned. Price quotes are based on the quality of the originals (staples, torn sheets, etc.)
  • by georgeha ( 43752 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:45PM (#9233866) Homepage
    or just get the ftp storage and a DocuJob Converter, which converts DocuTech jobs to TIFF or PS, or just use a DigiPath instead.
  • Alternatives (Score:3, Informative)

    by RebornData ( 25811 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @08:57PM (#9233919)
    Hardware for image acquisition:
    Check to see if the department copy machine has scan functions... most built in the past few years do, even if they aren't used in most places for that. You'll get a decent sheet feeder and way faster scanning than most desktop sheet-fed scanners.

    If you have to buy something and have to go *really* cheap, you could get a multi-function print / scan / fax thing. Most will handle legal size, because they're not actually moving the sheet fed paper onto the flatbed glass... the image element stays stationary while the paper goes by. But, of course, you get what you pay for... expect to spend time dealing with paperjams and skipped pages. However, it should be faster than hand-feeding a flatbed.

    Software:
    I mention this simply because nobody else has (that I've found): Scansoft Omnipage Pro is designed for highly repetitive, batch-oriented OCR. It has options for doing automated or hand-tweaked "area recognition" (separating text from graphics) and has the best proofreading UI I've seen... it flags "low confidence" recognitions automatically, and displays both it's best dictionary guesses and the actual scanned words. Not sure it will help much with hand-written work, but for printed material it works well.

    Format: Your primary concern when looking for a destination file format should be longevity... will the files be readable 5 years from now? I've seen a number of people recommending highly efficient but obscure compression schemes, which are a terrible idea if you want the data to stick around. Saving a few bits doesn't do you much good if you can't figure out what they mean. I recommend that people scan to two formats, just for safety (Omnipage can do this automatically).

    -R
  • Re:Get stuffed (Score:2, Informative)

    by Paisley Phrog ( 685921 ) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @10:58PM (#9234515)
    Exactly. I work at a print/copy shop, and the last color machines we had (Xerox DocuColor 3535) served as document scanners as well as copiers/printers. Place your document in the feeder, select "scan" from the menu, pick your resolution, and press the big green button. When it completes, you log into the printer's internal web services page (reachable from it's own IP address) and select how you want to download your files...JPEG, TIF, or PDF. I loved the PDF feature....too bad the 3535 was absolutely horrendous at everything else for high end color.

    This feature isn't available on every Xerox color (we don't have it on our new 2045, unfortunately), so you'll have to check around a little. Check with print shops and see if their Xeroxes have a "scan to file" capability.
  • by BigBlockMopar ( 191202 ) on Monday May 24, 2004 @01:32AM (#9235137) Homepage

    we've gotten a bunch of jobs like this - turning handwritten documents into searchable pdfs

    We had to do this, too. For a Court, which requires the reasons, decisions, etc. to be publicly available online.

    *Thousands* of documents, hundreds of pages each. The responsible department got me, as the IT guy, to set it up for them (after they'd already bought the stuff to do it).

    Basically, a couple of Ricoh Aficio series copier/scanners, a couple of ancient Fujitsu sheet-feed scanners, and a bunch of students sitting all day in front of computers running OmniPage Pro.

    The Ricohs were great on paper - fast, networked, etc. but their scanner drivers were poor (reminded me of bad CD-ROM drivers - "Copywrite 1995 Behavior Tech Computer. All right reverse." [sic,sic,sic]), and their service (contract) involved having to call the Ricoh guy because the scanner portions randomly wouldn't appear on the network, then wait for him to appear while at least one of the students sat idle. 2 stars out of 5.

    Ancient Fujitsu scanners, black and white only, don't remember the model number, required proprietary SCSI cards, no support under Windows NT/XP/2K. These were commercial-grade super-expensive scanners when new (about 1990). Installed Windows 95 on a bunch of relics with ISA slots for the SCSI cards and let 'er rip. Scanning was fast, feed was reliable like a good-quality photocopier or fax machine. Only issue was requirement for an old computer running an old OS; better overall than Ricohs - 4 stars out 5.

    OmniPage Pro 12 - reading was *excellent*, far better than anything else I've ever seen. Handled French and English, simple monochrome diagrams, etc. with only very small occasional formatting problems. Print to a PDF using Acrobat on the file server. Only real problem was stability, frequently locking up and losing the scan and OCR on page 99 of a 104 page document. 2 stars out of 5, being punitive because of frustration.

    As they got to be more proficient with OPP, and as OPP's dictionaries filled up, we were able to add more and more computers and scanners, so that they were running around, tossing files into the scanners, stapling scanned documents back together, and occasionally rebooting one of the Windows 95 workstations. Peak was 15 computers and scanners.

    Task took 3 students 3 months full-time.

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