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Communications Education

Learning a New Language Using Open Source? 74

Posted by Cliff from the speaking-in-tongues dept.
cmstar asks: "It's been several years since my High School Spanish courses and I'm finding myself quite a bit rusty. Add to that a new found desire to learn Japanese, and I find myself on a quest to find a good cheap set of language learning/teaching software. There are plenty of commercial packages available, but I'm poor. A quick check of Google and Sourceforge didn't produce any immediate results. I know speaking with a native is usually the best way to go about this, but with little time or money, and something portable that I could use at home and work, in my spare time, would be handy to freshen up on my skills and learn something new. Any suggestions?"
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Learning a New Language Using Open Source? More

Learning a New Language Using Open Source?

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  • Better yet (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) <seebert42@gmail.com> on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:38PM (#9282063) Homepage Journal
    Anybody have an open source language translation engine? Wouldn't be too hard to recompile for a flashcard program for Pocket PC (or somebody other than me, for Palm) if it can readily be translated into C (or VB for PocketPC).
    • May I suggest that for language learning what you want is not translation to your own language, but something to help you read. In Japanese, that's particularly hard because of the kanji.
      But there are a couple of open-source mozilla plugins that may be of some help:

      Moji [mozdev.org]

      rikaixul [mozdev.org], my own project which was functional a year ago but noone's touched in some time.
      Jim Breen [monash.edu.au] runs a really great list of online resources for Japanese, most of which are at least free-beer if not free-speech.
      While you're on-li

  • I dunno about Japanese, but... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:43PM (#9282087)
    After you've learned basic grammar and such, buy a few simple (children to young-adult level) books and get translating. For me, that was a nice way to improve my German vocabulary.
    Also, browse around Wikipedia. They usually have good language resources.
    But if you're starting fresh and trying to learn on your own...I dunno, that's probably not going to work so well. I'd recommend taking a couple semesters (or the equivalent) of the language before going on your own. Bad habits can be hard to break.

  • Japanese? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by keesh ( 202812 ) * on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:44PM (#9282100) Homepage
    Do you want to learn Japanese, or do you want to understand anime without the subtitles? There's a pretty big difference here.
    • Does it really matter what his motives are ?
      He (as do I) wants to learn something that most people consideres very hard. You have to commend him for that.

  • Wikibooks (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zugok ( 17194 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:48PM (#9282132)
    Wikipedia's Wikibooks [wikibooks.org] is free, but it is a work in progress.

  • English -- Japanse -- English Babelfish (Score:5, Funny)

    by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:49PM (#9282136)
    It meaning that technology of your acquisition helps unlimited, Japanese is the simple language which it should learn, but perhaps at Babelfish should be looked. Actually if you speak Japanese, or everyone's oven it is private teacher, are possible, the person should be obtained.
  • IANASD (I am not a software developer, but maybe a curmudgeon), but I understood open source to be a way for people to contribute their work from personal projects (and their business too i guess). In other words, by having created something useful, they seek to share and save someone else from the hassle of re-invention.

    I guess that's why there are all kinds of free compilers, development, and admin tools. But when it comes to Language Learning Software (and other less-than-typical techie tools like A
    • Actually i think automatic fish feeders would be a typical OSS niche.
      • Yeah, I was trying to think of a good examples of unlikely OSS candidates like CRM and financial s/w, but Aquarium Automation just sounded too probable. The last thing I wanted was a flood of freshmeat.net links!

  • Why use the word open-source? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by prostoalex ( 308614 ) * on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:53PM (#9282165) Homepage Journal

    Why refer to the term open source if you meant free of charge? Not sure whether the source would do you any good here.

    As for free language courses, Google search for free language courses produces just that [word2word.com].
    • Why link to a site (in your sig) saying it has perl interview questions when it doesnt.

      It does have some perl questions under "java web programming" (wtf?) that are answered with code that starts:

      use warnings;
      use strick;

      It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

      yes I am bugging you because your sig is bugging me.

      Is it your site? If so fix it, if not why embarrass yourself by advertising it.
      • Thanks,

        I just noticed your reply, should've read it on Sunday.

        The questions are sent to me from various sources, mostly by e-mail, I will correct this one, I cannot check all of them for correctness.

  • Resources (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First of all, Kiten is an app bundled in with KDE (in the edu section), a teaching/reference tool for learning Japanese.
    http://www.katzbrown.com/kiten/About/

    Then, don't worry too much dedicated apps - it's easy enough to adopt flash card programs to build and solidify your vocab.

    And then, use your browser / audio streamer to make the most of what the web has to offer. Simply looking at the front page of a newspaper every day will help.

    Of course, setting your box up to handle foreign characters is an e

  • Library (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Go to the library and get the Pimsleur CDs, or whatever. Most libraries seem to have a number of audio/software learning programs these days. You may have to reserve them though. Most popular languages have plenty of content on the web as well for you to practice with.

  • Library? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nuxx ( 10153 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @07:58PM (#9282192) Homepage
    How about hitting up your local library and getting a book from there? Not all learning needs to be done on a computer, and libraries are the ideal place to get books. :)

    • Re:Library? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nuxx ( 10153 )
      Oh, and if your local library doesn't have any of the books you desire, ask them to do an Inter-Library Loan. It might take a few days to get the book you want, but it's possible to have things transfered in from all over the country as needed. In fact, you can find almost any piece you want this way, in-print or not.

  • Try a textbook (Score:5, Informative)

    by sakusha ( 441986 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @08:08PM (#9282256)
    Books are portable, have high storage density, require no power source, and boot up instantly.
    There are very few good Japanese textbooks, it is known to educators as an "infrequently taught language." The people who have written good Japanese textbooks have spent years developing their work, usually in conjunction with other instructors at a university, do you really think they're likely to give it away for free? Japanese textbooks are notoriously expensive since they're usually printed in Japan and imported at unfavorable exchange rates. But still, the best money I ever spent was the $90 introductory textbook set for my first Japanese class. I used it for four semesters, and still use it occasionally for reference.
    Japanese instructors are notoriously technophobic, and advancements in computer aided instruction have been very slow. Good instructors are too busy updating the existing learning systems to modern standards to bother with computerizing them too.
    There are a few gadgets that will help certain areas, like kanji flashcard gadgets. I've used many of them, but none of them are much better than conventional methods (i.e. flashcards). And flashcards aren't going to teach you the whole language, it is just a reinforcement for a small subset of your primary studies. Electronic dictionaries are freely available online, but this is only going to speed up your word lookups, again, it's merely a support activity, not a primary learning tool.
    The best tool to learn Japanese is a structured study plan, either with a teacher, or with a textbook with a graduated series of exercises that build up your knowledge according to planned curriculum. You can't just go at this by stumbling through native language materials like comic books and trying to figure it out as you go along.
    • But unfortunately, for learning pronounciations, a book isn't that interesting...
      • My textbook came with cassette tapes, modern textbooks often come with CDRoms, you could even rip the CD and put it on your computer or iPod. This is an especially useful way to practice, no more rewinding tapes to hear the last 15 seconds over again. I even know of one textbook that has an online web page with software for exercises and testing.
        But ultimately, nothing will perfect your pronounciation except continual contact with native speakers. You will naturally adopt the pronounciation and speech patte

  • I'm in the same boat (Score:5, Informative)

    by medeii ( 472309 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @08:09PM (#9282262)

    Except, my sister gave me a "deluxe" language training software package. Windows-only, of course, which defeated the idea of learning with my Powerbook. But after I installed it, I tried it for about twenty minutes before I got sick of the pathetic interface, dog-slow loading times (they do their best to prevent you from loading it on the hard drive, too) and the overall horrible audio tracks and pixelated graphics. If anyone's seen the sort of drivel produced out of Toolbook 2.0 -- along with the associated media from the time when that program was popular -- that's the sort of product my sister paid $50 for. I gave up, went online, and started doing my own searching.

    My personal approach to learning Japanese isn't driven out of any specific need -- just a deep-seated curiosity (and one I've had before I'd ever played video games or watched anime, mind you.) I decided I'd learn the alphabets first, adding kanji slowly, until I could safely go purchase a few kids' books written almost entirely in hiragana and katakana. It's worked, so far. My friend is taking courses the traditional way, through a community college, and though his speaking abilities are obviously better at this stage, he's got some serious dependence on romaji.

    My single greatest resource for learning the characters has been, oddly enough, the Microsoft and Apple IMEs. I used a word processor to make myself worksheets and practice writing the characters. Five minutes and 100 sheets of "appropriated" office paper later, I had a stack of worksheets to practice with that beat any of the ones I found online or as samples in books. Best of all, if I needed more practice with a specific group, I could just print more of the same worksheet whenever I wanted it.

    As for online references, someone compiled a great list [manythings.org] of them already. In particular, my favorite from that list has been Takasugi Shinji's [airnet.ne.jp] site, written from the perspective of a linguist. It's also got a great java applet that helps you memorize the kana alphabets -- allowing you to switch fonts to get a greater familiarity with writing styles.

    In short -- I've not found any particular free-as-in-beer resource for language learning, and I don't think there's likely to be any because such courses are usually subjective. Perhaps it's something MIT and OpenCourseware can tackle in the future. In the meantime, IMEs are your best friend, and try to avoid getting dependent on romaji. :)

    • Also, look up JWPCE [ucla.edu], a japanese word processor that runs on windows CE (as well as other versions of windows) - it's quite easy to use and has many good features - a searchable japanese/english dictionary and kanji information tool being the most useful.

  • Let me re-phrase that for you (Score:3, Insightful)

    by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Friday May 28, 2004 @08:14PM (#9282291) Homepage
    Learning a new language on the cheap?
    I don't see how this has anything whatsoever to do with "open source".

    You might want to shell out a few bucks for a quality language course.

  • Nuku [apple.com] is a good free (beer) program for learning kana for OS X

  • Lingoteach (Score:3, Informative)

    by retostamm ( 91978 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @09:05PM (#9282505) Homepage
    Try lingoteach.org.

    GPL language teaching, with audio and all. And it does 900 words of spanish. And some German and others.

  • See kuro5hin... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ramses0 ( 63476 ) on Friday May 28, 2004 @09:12PM (#9282542)
    Learn Japanese for nerds part 1:
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/26/175722/727 [kuro5hin.org]

    Part 2:
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/3/25/32218/1824 [kuro5hin.org]

    --Robert

  • You need someone who speaks it. If you don't have someone who can hear when you pronounce things incorrectly, expectally when you start, you will be wasting your time.

    Just getting the ra ri ru re ro sounds correct is difficult with a teacher for most. It's something in between a L and a R sound on the 'r', but there isn't a real analog in english to it. To try and learn it without someone who's ear is accustommed to it... That's just not going to happen.

    Seriously, if you check your local community college
    • took 4 years of japanese in Highschool, and A I U E O, is pronounced the same as RA RI RU RE RO, and allt he others. I can see where tsu and words like desu can be a problem. but overall I think japanese can be taught as long as you have a simple recording of haragana.

  • Lingoteach (Score:2, Informative)

    by retostamm ( 91978 )
    Lingoteach [lingoteach.org] is just what you need.

    It has some 900 words and sentences in Spanish, English and German with audio, and you can go any way you would like to go (Spanish->German, English->Spanish, or whatever).

    It has many more Languages that have only written content and no audio.

    It's XML based, so you can add your own content, and it uses OGG Vorbis for sound encoding (so it does not use patented stuff). It has various modes to learn, to test yourself and to practice as well as plugin capabilies

  • JWPce is an open source Japanese word processor for Microsoft Windows. I first started using it back in 1996, when I was living in Japan but only had English Windows.
    One of its most useful features is the ability to highlight a Japanese word and get not only the pronunciation but an English translation as well.

    All about JWPce [ucla.edu]

  • Anime and Manga (Score:2, Informative)

    by Rukasu ( 219436 ) *
    Avoid * like the plague * sites that tell you that you can learn Japanese from Anime and Manga. This is not possible if you want to speak with any amount of seriousness or authority.

    There are two ways you will probably speak like if you do this: like an old Japanese man, or like a young Japanese girl. For the confused, neither of these are desirable unless, of course, you are one.

    For the serious Japanese student, unfortunately you will have to fork out some money for a decent book with some sort of
    • Having taken Japanese in college, I can confirm thath there are many ways to say the same thing. However, also having taken Japanese in college, I can tell you that it is unnecessary for the casual student to learn all of these ways. The approach that was taken in my course study was to teach the most common, formal version of the language. Being that the Japanese are a society built upon strict social heirarchy, it is quite possible to interact effectively knowing only this form.

      Pronunciation is going to
    • There are two ways you will probably speak like if you do this: like an old Japanese man, or like a young Japanese girl. For the confused, neither of these are desirable unless, of course, you are one.

      I've just finished watching Fruits Basket, there were lots of non-old men/boys there. Are you saying they were speaking like young Japanese girls? Or is it just that majority of animes feature mostly young females and old men? Recalling Full Metal Panic, Fushigi Yuugi, Cowboy Bebop, Wolf's Rain, Witch Hunter


  • Nobody has mentioned Pythoñol [sourceforge.net] yet. It's not Japanese, but I figure the people trying to learn Spanish probably ask the same questions. Pythoñol is open source, runs happy on Linux (and runs not quite so happy on other platforms), and talks to you if you can figure out how to install festival [ed.ac.uk].

    Hope this helps someone.

    • I've used festival, and it's great, but ... you'd trust your pronunciation to a speech synthesizer? Especially a synthesizer designed not for Spanish, but English?

  • For those studying German, I have a German-English Dictionary [michael-forman.com], German-English Hyperdictionary [michael-forman.com], and an overview of German Phonetics in SAMPA [michael-forman.com] online.

    Additionally, for students of the English language, I also have an English phonetic transcription program [michael-forman.com] that will output phrases in IPA, SAMPA, CMU, HTML, and LaTeX format.

    Michael. [michael-forman.com]
  • This is a good place to start. japanese-online [japanese-online.com]

  • Slime Forest [lrnj.com] is a fun, simple NES-style RPG that teaches kana (the alphabet) and 200 of the most important kanji.

    It's LGPL, too!

  • Have a look at this site [airnet.ne.jp] - It is basically a teach yourself Japanese guide :)
  • Slime Forest Adventure [lrnj.com] will help. It wont teach you everything, but it's a good/fun/free way to learn some japanese.

  • some thoughts: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by conJunk ( 779958 )
    writing as an ESL teacher in japan, here's a general breakdown of how (INMHO, natürlich), to learn a language if you aren't going to pay a lot of money/take course/whatever....

    the grammar/vocab/sylabaries/kanji can all be brute forced, that's not a problem (other than the obvious common learning problems, but we'll ignore these and assume you have the motivation and intelligence to brute force these)

    the hard parts are pronounciation, listening comprehension, and cognitive/production skills. without
  • This is a nice little game [lrnj.com] that may help you learn your katakana and hiragana.
    Also, some people put sticky labels with the foreign words on their stuff. And it may sound "babyish" but flash cards are pretty useful for learning Kanji. J-List [jlist.com] sells sets of flash cards, and loads of other Japanese goodies too :o)

    I've been trying to learn Japanese for a while now, but I haven't had much time to, what with final year of uni.

  • Being a former Spanish teacher, my experience in my own learning and in the teaching of others of Spanish is that the main key to learning another language well is motivation.

    I learned Spanish well one because I could and two it really tickled my fancy to learn another language. Eventually I met hispanics while attending LSU, in Baton Rouge. That really whet my apitite for mastering the new tongue. Finally, throw a hot latina in the mix and that's all she wrote. Just ask my Honduran wife. :P

  • I can't resist promoting my own product here, even though it's not free.

    LiveDictionary [mikeash.com] is a program for Mac OS X that lets you look up words in Safari by just pointing at them with your mouse. It supports lots of bilingual dictionaries, including Japanese. It can be a great way to learn vocabulary, or to help you understand a web page that's in a language you're not very good with (which is why I wrote it in the first place), or just to understand the occasional unknown word when you're browsing in your s
  • I am a bit late on this thread. You need to check out padict [sourceforge.net] . It's GPL, runs on a Palm and is fantastic! What more could ask?
    It won't teach you to speak Japanese though. I don't think software are much help with conversation. Have you though of trading English conversation with a native speaker?
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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