Should Hardware Drivers be Region/Language Locked? 91
An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I have purchased Sony's new Hi-MD player. I popped in their driver CD, and instead of installer launching, I was greeted by the message,
'Cannot install for this Windows language.' It seems like it rejected installation, because my default language setting is Japanese, although I am using English version of Windows. I got the response from Sony stating that: 'If you are using a different language set up for your computer, you will not be able to use the software supplied with the product. Unfortunately, currently there is no workaround for this issue. The only option would be to change the language setting of your computer.' Now I'm asking for my money back. The hardware device is practically useless without the software installation, and it seems like they are going too far, especially since this may affect anyone who uses more than one languages on their computer. Isn't this discrimination to multi-lingual people living in the targeted market? And isn't it unfair to impose such restrictions on software that is required to use hardware?"
Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Second that notion (Score:1)
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Funny)
A better answer would be "I run an english localization of windows. Give me the MD player!"
-Grump
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
He should have listened it already, if you're intending to use a player to listen to stuff you encoded into mp3/whatever yourself, Sony sucks as a music player choice.
I too, however, use their earplug style headphones which are pretty good in the price/performance ratio. But people who have bought their MD players to be used as Mp3 player replacements have been disappointed in all cases I know(They advertise them like they would work like charm, moving mp3's to them and playing them from it, yet it doesn't work like that. converting to atrac with drm that adds unneeded complexity, dependance on their crappy software, and re-encoding).
They're excellent as MD players, but that's just about it..
so what should he do? return it, try to get his money back and complain to Sony that their way sucks(going through EXTRA TROUBLE to HARASS THE CUSTOMER).
Re:Simple Solution (Score:2)
Bought it about 5 years ago. Back then, CDr just wasn't as ubiquitous, and I thought MD would be great because I could record and re-record without having to buy a cd burner.
Today, I have a stack of MDs I take when I go hiking. Have dropped it a few times and it still works like a charm.
-Grump
Re:Simple Solution (Score:2)
I don't like Sony either... but I shouldn't buy Sony because one dude had a problem with them?
Re:Simple Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
There aren't many good reasons to buy Sony stuff. Unless you like aibos that much...
They're fond of having their own type of batteries, memory, etc.
Their optical disc drives/players typically have poorer media compatibility than even the taiwanese brands (they're probably all made in China, which makes it even more puzzling why they're more sucky).
You often pay a premium for Sony stuff (except for cdrom drives for some reason
Re:Simple Solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Multiscan200sf: still works fine... great moniotor (not as nice as the NEC sitting next it, though... both were free so I'm not going to complain)
Clie NX70: screen fucked itself about 6 months after i bought it... i kept it in a nice metal case, so it wasn't because i dropped it or something)
Clie NX60 (or something): no software updates ever
Memory Stick Camera: the software included caused a hard reset on the PDA
Memory Stick GPS (I didn't buy this, but a person at Bic Camera tol
Re:Simple Solution (Score:2)
I won a Sony Network Walkman (ie. digital music player) as a door prize. Pretty sweet, considering it's average price online, at the time, was several hundred dollars.
If I had done reasearch into buying an MP3 player, this one would have been one of the first to be eliminated. First, it doesn't play mp3's, it plays atrac. For that luxery you get to pay twice as much as the next brand.
The play
Re:Simple Solution (Score:2)
At work I have to use a few Sony programs, and they constantly ask questions like, "Are you sure to delete?" and others that make no sense at all like the error window that pops up "(-64) Mouse Problem" or my personal favorite is an error box that pops up with no text in it whatsoever. Apparently, something I do causes an error, but even the computer doesn't know what it is.
Discrimination (Score:2, Redundant)
Yes.
Lesson learned: Don't buy Sony.
Next...
What if my default language is... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:What if my default language is... (Score:3, Funny)
not sure if this is lock out (Score:4, Interesting)
Not exactly a 'lock-out' (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem here, really, is that the installer won't offer to install some default localization when it can't find an appropriate one. There isn't some massive evil company trying to keep you from using their software.
Why not kick the computer to English for the duration of the install, and then switch it back?
Re:Not exactly a 'lock-out' (Score:2, Interesting)
Not true! In order to do what the poster has described, you have to specifically write code to detect the language in use, then disable install based on the detected language.
In a single language install environment you'll never know about the language installed on the environment. In a multi-language install environment, you check the language in use and try to find an appropriate language.
What has been described above is language lockout plain and simple, and there's no excuse for it (other than impor
Unless (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not exactly a 'lock-out' (Score:1)
I had a problem with my ISP the installation software refused to work on a non english install of windows.
I use and write in Polish. Windows has a habit of mangling Polish letters in read only windows unless the operating system has been installed with Polish as the default.
changing to english isn't an acceptable option for me.
Why NTL's installer insists on english for windows i do not know especially since its
Yes it should be locked (Score:4, Funny)
Actually, you're on to something.... (Score:2)
Re:Yes it should be locked (Score:1, Funny)
(posted AC in case anyone thinks I'm actually that stupid..)
Re:Yes it should be locked (Score:2)
My father-in-law seriously holds that view. He'll get agitated if someone dares to speak a foriegn language near him, even if it's a public place and they're not even talking to him. I'm glad you were joking.
Re:Yes it should be locked (Score:2)
Re:Yes it should be locked (Score:1)
They can do whatever they want (Score:2)
I'm sure the reasoning behind the policy is to prevent people from buying foreign drives cheaper. Have you tried setting windows to english, installing the drivers, then setting it back to japanese? I'm sure if it were that simple though you wouldn't have had to ask slashdot.
discrimination? try grey market deterrence... (Score:5, Insightful)
But the real reason is probably that if it worked in Japanese, people might export your version to Japan, where it likely is much more expensive, and Sony would lose revenue(let's not get into the ethics of that shall we?). It's arguably why some Francophone markets(I'm from Quebec) have to wait longer than others to get their version of a DVD, even it's its already available. (Sometimes I really wish Quebec would go back to it's "release in both official languages at the same time, by law.) Because european-french releases usually are much more tardy than North American ones, we have to wait for software, until it's released over there, even if it's translated here(and ready by the same time the North-American English version is).
Now I wasn't aware they charged extra for the fr_FR version, but I'm sure a grey market copy would inflate in value in France, if it was available before everyone else can get a copy.
In your case, I'd strongly suspect that the english/multilingual copy to be cheaper than the Japanese version. Oddly enough, lots of software will install in english on a french computer, so I suspect it's not a technical "deny" but more of an administrative/marketing one in your case. (Yes I know, there are also issues about input methods, but I doubt it's the problem here, as you mention a driver...)
Re:discrimination? try grey market deterrence... (Score:3, Insightful)
How does this help anyone? All this would accomplish is making the English speakers wait longer for their release.
Also if the law matches your description, it would also prevent companies who lack the resources to create a French version from releasing anything at all. That seems to be a very anti-competitive/big business stance.
Re:discrimination? try grey market deterrence... (Score:2)
Re:discrimination? try grey market deterrence... (Score:2)
Except for land. 12 years salary for an apartment an hour out of Tokyo is a bit over the top...isn't it?
The only thing I could think of is.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, have you tried setting the default language to english, installing, and changing the language back? I'm not sure if this is possible under windows (I'm a macosx/linux/*bsd user myself), but it seems like a possible workaround.
it can be other things too (Score:5, Informative)
As it turns out japanese machines have a different base character set, and the installer [installshield] would crash ALL the time. Even if multiple language packs were installed. Eventually after much head scratching, and installshield saying "wow you are right it doesnt work here either, and we have no idea why" I finally figured out what it was.
Turns out installshield at the time if you had a copyright symbol in a start emnu folder name would always crash.
I've also seen installations that just simply did not support japanese or chinese. They do have different language formats, not every letter can be kept in a single byte of data.
Or the CD-rom is hard coded to a region, and they make assumptions about people in a different regional language trying to install hardware not region specific. hard to say.
Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
I will try again:
Cyrillic:
Hebrew:
It does not look like it is working properly. All I see is that it is changed to unicode characters that slashdot seems to filter when they are displayed. What do they think I am going to do with them? Construct a giant unicode version of ascii art goatse?
I am very annoyed! I petition for slashdot to be multilingual.
Re:Slashdot (Score:2)
???
???
Though I can't seem to write them(thus the ???)
Bad programmer, bad company, bad customer (Score:1, Flamebait)
Return that piece of crap, I'll even drive you to the st
Answer to headline (Score:1)
Simple answer- NO (Score:2)
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:1)
Just wondering. .
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:2)
Oh wait- that's in reality as well as I face the possible (75% chance, only 1 in 4 that I'll get my next contract with state government) next 26 months without a job after only 6 months of being able to work again.
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:1)
You should be angry that somehow you became that dependent on such an entity. Somebody set you up.
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:2)
Absolutely I'm angry. I know exactly who has set me up and sold me up the river (quite literally- Salem is up both the Tualatin and Willamette Rivers from the Silicon Forest). It was a combination of people- like most things. Paid lobbiests in the ITAA and pro-immigration groups, who keep claiming against all evidence to the contrary that there is a labor shortage in this country, especially in high tech a
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:1)
You need to immediately read Josef Stalin's 'Marxism and the National Question' before your cadre status is revoked.
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:2)
Plus, read the full name: Marxist Hacker. I view economic systems the same way I view operating systems. The political boundary at the edge of Oregon is no different than the system boundary at your NIC card. The way to protect such boundaries is with physical (hardware) and law based (software) firewalls. If something doesn't work, you need to go back and re-engineer until it DOES w
Re:Simple answer- NO (Score:1)
You view economic systems the same as you view operating systems? As badges of honor for zealotry, it seems. You need to come back when you're grown up.
Psst: don't wave that red flag too widely. When
On a similar note... (Score:4, Funny)
Look, here's one:
Did you see it?
No?
Because it isn't friggin' there, is it?!
Re:On a similar note... (Score:1)
pound is that funky looking symbol that is used for currency of the UK
Re:On a similar note... (Score:1)
Re:On a similar note... (Score:1)
Official name: Number Sign
Other names: Pound, Number, Sharp, Crunch, Mesh, Hex, Hash, Flash, Grid, Octothorpe
What about the "GBP sign"? (Score:1)
If you call the '#' character "pound sign", then why does Slashdot provide no way for a comment to contain the GBP sign (U+00A3)?
Re:On a similar note... (Score:2)
Sony always was the Other Evil Empire (Score:4, Insightful)
This is standard operating procedure for Sony.
Sony, much like every other company, want to maximise their profits. Sony, unlike most companies, is large enough to set standards and influence government policy on matters such as copyright so that they can engage in discriminatory pricing (discriminatory in the sense that are able to discriminate between markets and charge in each market according to demand and local pricings.)
Proprietay hardware and software formats. Pointless (from the user's point of view) restrictions on using their hardware. Lobbying for legislation to declare re-importation of CDs as a copyright violation. Region ecoding on DVDs. These are all part of the same policy.
The fact that they make sexy looking hardware is no reason to buy into this scheme unnecessarily.
Given the asinine restrictions and unnecessary hoops I would have to jump through to use a Net-MD player or its ilk, there is no way I'd ever buy an MD player with the intent of connecting it to a computer. I'm sorry to hear that yet another aspect of their profit-maximisation policy has claimed a victim.
PS: Sony warranty support is also one of the worst I've ever had to deal with in a professional capacity. Again, they're big enough that they don't need to care.
PPS: It's a real shame that the fruits of Fujitsu's very cool MO technology look like they will be primarily found only in Sony's product. The 2.3GB MO 3.5" format was amazing, but just never caught on. There was a collaboration with Sony and this looks like the result.
Re:Sony always was the Other Evil Empire (Score:2)
Sony is... (Score:1)
But their MP3 players... evil. Their software sucks anyway, you're not missing out on much.
The Slashdot Chorus Says: (Score:1)
Why are you surprised? (Score:3, Funny)
:-)
(whadda ya bet somebody posts about Sony being a Japanese company anyway?)
Malice vs. sloppy QA? (Score:1)
Also, have you looked for "Japanese" drivers on the Sony web site? Never mind that their "technical support" (probably sitting in Bangalore) told you there was no work around.
On the other hand, region software lock-outs are common in video game software, though I bought a GameBoy AdvancedSP in Japan and catridges sold here in the US work fine.
The real question: (Score:2)
I can't see how anyone would want to spend the money on a device that's that bent on locking them into that kind of crap.
I might look the other way when some itunes-lover buys an ipod, but I'm sure as hell never buying one, as long as they require that much overhead just to copy the music over.
Does someone want to explain why anyone would choose an itunes or musicmatch or sony softwar
All too Common (Score:5, Insightful)
Unicode support in Windows is great (Score:1)
The text functions contain a layer called Uniscribe, which is a system for handling complex scripts automatically.
The problem is legacy apps compiled in ANSI/8-bit mode, and which are still being churned out by clueless Windows programmers.
Making a Unicode-compatible app on Windows is no longer
Re:Unicode support in Windows is great (Score:2)
You can switch input languages on the fly, but can you switch output languages? On my Mac, if I want to switch the interface to Chinese, I move Chinese to the top of m
But wait... (Score:1)
3) High Compatibility with PC
"Hi-MD" uses the FAT file system, making it possible to use "Hi-MD" formatted MDs and 1GB "Hi-MD" discs as versatile media for recording PC data files, such as images and text. Furthermore, as portable, rewritable PC media, "Hi-MD" complies with USB format's Mass Storage Class, ensuring that simply by connecting a "Hi-MD" product to a PC it is immediately recognized as an external storage device.
even if
Re:But wait... (Score:3, Informative)
Laziness != Discrimination (Score:3, Interesting)
I can kind of see their point; if people try to install using instructions in a language they don't know, the results can be random. I was once asked to help a friend install something on her PC. She booted up her PC, popped in the CD, and up came a dialog box. In Chinese. She asked "what should the answer to this question be?" and I asked her "well, what is the question?" It took a long time because the translation process was non-trivial. I can see why Sony might balk at the idea of having their help desk try to sort out the problems experienced by users trying to install on a system using an unfamiliar language.
The questions... (Score:2, Interesting)
Is this the best you came up with? This is is Ask Slashdot, i.e. a tech-crowd. A better question would be:"So did anyone manage, or is planning, to find a way around it, either through some kind of emulation, or possibly by hacking the device/software?"
As for your questions, Sony is a company which is both global and fascist, in the
change the OS settings just for the install (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it was CloneCD that had some functions that were illegal in the US and some countries, so if you installed the software in those countries, some features would be disabled. So I'd just change my settings to that have The Netherlands and installed the software (all features enable) changed the setting back and still had access to all the features.
So go to the control panel and change the region settings, install the software, change them back and injoy.
In case it doesn't work when you change it back, then don't. you don't have to have the region settings and language/fonts match. so you can have the computer think it's in japan but using Italian if you like...
Not just Sony (Score:1)
Unfortunately, this model has no direct equivalent in the English speaking world, and I'm still trying to get it to work under Linux.
Hopefully Mandrake 10 with a new version of gimp-print drivers (which say they support the PM-940) will solve the issue.
Krishna
I got solutions for you (Score:1)
(Heck, if you have it kicking around I'll take a look at it for you.)
#2: Repackage on an English install of Windows, then use the new package to install on your Japanese install of Windows. This is doable but involves lots of Trial-n-error. Might still not work depending on what silly things they've done inside the real package (DRM, Machine fingerprinting,...)
Ironic (Score:2, Funny)