Resumes for New Grads? 91
CastrTroy asks: "I recently graduated from the software engineering program at the University of Ottawa. With 4 terms of experience, and good marks, I am still unable to even get interviews for jobs. What makes a good resume? I've gotten some good pointers from people I know, but it just doesn't seem to be working. Is there something that works really well for technically related jobs? What is a good way to include skills that I don't have on-the-job experience with? Some people say 3 pages is too much, while others say their resume is 25 pages. Are there any actual proven methods for writing good resumes, or is it all just hit and miss"
Cover letter! (Score:5, Insightful)
- Let me know you read the ad: reference the content of the ad.
- Tell me how you fit the bill: Choose one experience, one skill, or one attribute that meets the at least one of the requirements listed in the ad.
- Express (sincere) interest in the job: try to make it feel like you didn't just respond to this ad because you're desperate for any kind of interview.
- Don't send your cover letter as an attachment! It should be your email body. Really. I won't read an attached cover letter.
Make it easy on the hiring person, and you'll improve your chances on having your resume actually read -- and that is what will get you the interview.Some Advice (Score:4, Insightful)
In todays market you can probably expect to send out about a hundred resumes per interview. Work any friends and family that you have- even if they're just acquaintances. Start sending your resume to large corporations- they're always hiring, even if they haven't posted anything, and you may catch someone in the right mood.
Skills sections will show up on hits when recruiters do searches, but they tend to be ignored when your resume is actually sitting in front of a real person. Try to work any skills you have into the context in which you used them. If you implemented some stuff for fun definitely put in a section of personal projects. When I'm looking at fresh from college resumes that's a definite plus, as I know the person actually enjoys development.
Get the recruiter working too (Score:2, Insightful)
Interview your recruiters closely, and talk to their previous hires. Get an idea of what worked before, and what the recruiter is willing to do to make you sellable (ie better resume). If you're worth it, they will help you.
Like any profession, some recruiters can be really good at what they do, and others can be just useless. Run in the opposite direction of the latter.
None (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you were involved in some crazy groundbreaking research, went to an extremely prestigious school that will make a mark based on the name (Ivy League, Cal Tech/MIT/etc.), or work on some readily recognizable OSS in your spare time, your resume is about as good as it's going to get provided you follow the rules above.
Now for the fun part: Remember that cliche about "it isn't what you know, it's who you know?" It didn't achieve cliche status without having a bit of truth. Two of my friends graduated last Spring. One had a pretty good GPA and a degree in Chemical Engineering. Hadn't programmed since High School. He's now a consultant with Accenture, doing minor programming work on site for pretty nice cash, considering he's a first year employee. The other day he mentioned how one of the guys he had graduated with had a better GPA, better extra-curriculars, and sends out a shitload of resumes with no result (He was bemoaning the economy). I answered to him that the reason he ended up with that job was that he showed up everytime Accenture came to campus, be it for some random business school speaking engagement, or at career fairs. He came to be known by the guys there. The second friend graduated at the same time with a BS in EE. He spent about 5 months working on getting hired with one of about three different places, and now he works on the ISS at NASA. A third friend did approximately the same thing, and now works for the State Department (I think, long story but I suspect he works for a more clandestine side of the executive branch, but having had relatives in those positions I know he can't tell me if he does).
These guys are not geniuses, they both went to state schools (albeit good ones, and the third went Ivy League, so I consider his example less representative), and they're not the sort who were posting Summa Cum Laude grades at graduation. In short, they're probably just like you.
So what you need to do is this: Take a look at the companies operating in the region in which you want to be hired. Pick two or three good ones, and make sure to read up on corporate (or govt.) culture, benefits, etc. Know them well. Now start finding out ways to make contacts with the people there. Do their developers participate in some SIG around town? Go get to know them. Speak to guys who might be responsible for recommending a new-hire, but make sure you aren't hounding people. A lot of jobs aren't filled in a position->applicant order, but rather the other way around. In other words, a lot of times a team might need another hand, or a particular task that you're well suited at might need an entry-level programming position. The company probably wouldn't actively go and create a job advertisment, post on Monster.com, etc., but if one of the devs says, "hey, there's that guy I remember from the Linux/Graphics/Networking SIG who could probably help us out", the job will be "created".
At the risk of sounding like some crappy self-help speaker, when you're trying to get a job, you're essentially acting a salesperson, and the product you're selling is yourself. Right now, you're basically a commodity product, nothing but a slightly-better-than-average list of achievements on paper. Your job is to provide that extra push, in whatever way you can, to put yourself above commodity status.
Oh yeah, and please ditch that "objective: To obtain a position in..." section. God I wish those things would go away on resumes. Everyone of them is the same canned line that does nothing but take up space better devoted to anything.
Short resumes are a sign of a focused mind (Score:4, Insightful)
as short as possible while still highlighting your skills. Remember, recruiters are busy people, and they usually spend a very small amount of time per resume(unless they are interested).
That's very true and there are other reasons for keeping your resume short. Quite frankly, if you cannot tell me the important things about yourself in a single page, I shudder to think of the mounds of documentation you will produce when I ask you to summarize your recent progress on the project you are working on. A succinct resume is a demonstration of your ability to quickly identify the most important parts of something (in this case: you) and communicate those clearly and effectively. I believe that a good resume indicates a focused mind and an ability to cut through the crap and get to the heart of what's important. In addition, when I see resumes over two pages, I get the impression that the applicant is trying to "snow" me with tons of crap. That s/he's trying to bowl me over with quantity rather than quality.
Your best bet is to make a tight, targeted resume.
Again, I agree. I'm baffled at how many people just stick a generic "goal" at the top of their resume. Something like "Seeking employment in a challenging field, allowing me to further develop my experience and capabilities" is just a bunch of crap. Who the hell doesn't want a job like that?
The cover letter can make a big difference as well. There was a recent slashdot story about handwriting and someone pointed out that a handwritten cover letter will make you stand out from the stack. That's something you might try. But definitely explain why you are interested in that particular company in your cover letter -- don't use a generic letter!
GMD
Target for What you Want (Score:3, Insightful)
Think: What do they want? What do I have that they want? Write down everything you can think of, and then turn it into a 30-second commercial slot. Pound on those few points solidly, and leave the rest as dressing. Avoid things they might not want. Definitely avoid negative things.
For instance, if I were applying for a software engineering position at, say, Microsoft, in C++. I would highlight all of the experience I had writing C++ code, emphasize the project's I've worked on, and bullet point the various things I've done in relation to coding. The "dressing" will be where I've worked (relevant places only -- NOT McDonald's), what college I've graduated from, what degree and what my GPA was, and what my other skills or hobbies are.
Think of your resume more as an ad: You have to hire me because I will bring your company $$$! Sell yourself!
short and simple (Score:3, Insightful)
imho the best length is 2 full pages, about 100 lines. if your experience of talent can't fill this up, you need to indulge a little. if it's longer, you need to cut out the fluff. they don't want your life story.
keywords are important. if a recruiter is looking for a c++ or java coder then they don't want to spend 2 minutes reading your resume, trying to figure out if you've ever used them before. they want to see those keywords easily in your resume and then if they do, how much experience you have. after the basic quantitative evaluation, they'll like take a look at the major projects you've listed off. the more impressive-sounding the claims, the more likely you'll get a call.
remember that if you're young with no real-world experience, no matter how important you make yourself sound, you will not look better than someone who has 5 years of experience, unless perhaps your reputation precedes you (about %0.0001 of people). no matter how cool your final project was or how much better you were than the rest of your class. you're entry level and when you find a job it will be entry level unless you have a rich family member who owns a business (perhaps 2% of people). for the other 97.9999%, keep blasting out those resumes
as for actually find a job, just keep trying... my girlfriend looked for a job for months before she got lucky and found a place where an ex-colleague was in a position to hire and she got the job. the old "it's not what you know it's who you know" story. try checking with people you or your family or friends know; your highest probability for employment (note: not best jobs) is likely with someone you already know... although i did that twice through friends of my dad and they were both shitty jobs. good luck!
Objective: To Take Up Space on My Resume (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh yeah, and please ditch that "objective: To obtain a position in..." section. God I wish those things would go away on resumes. Everyone of them is the same canned line that does nothing but take up space better devoted to anything.
I hear you, pal. I once had an applicant in my office hand me her resume. Her objective was something along the lines of wanting to apply the knowledge of communications technologies she learned in grad school to real world problems. Sounds great, right? Just a tiny problem: WE DON'T DO ANY COMM WORK! So I asked her if she was aware that we didn't have a Communications division and pointed out her objective. "Oh yeah," she replied. "That's just something I put down. I'm flexible."
So now I'm thinking:
Needless to say, we did not offer her a position.
Croynism, nepotism & patronism rule (Score:2, Insightful)
Talk to everyone you know or ever met, especially family and friends. Failing that, take a temp position and make friends quick. Failing that, take some more courses, one's that have an on-job work experience component. Initiate personal contact with instructors, well connected students & co-workers and employers.
Kiss some butt, it's the corporate way. Get use to it. Welcome to servitude.
However, my best advice, start your own company. Never work for someone else. You will be owned.
Oh, and as for resumes, get a professional resume or technical writer to produce yours.
Re:Short resumes are a sign of a focused mind (Score:4, Insightful)
As a matter of curiosity, what do you expect up there? How do you justify whatever answer you give in light of the fact that it all boils down to "I want the job you are offering" anyhow?
I'm an honest person. And while I know it's a disadvantage, I prefer to avoid bullshitting on my resume. Despite significant pondering, I've never managed to figure out what to put there. I've recently settled on "To become a respected software architect" but that still doesn't feel right on a number of levels. For one thing, at my level of experience, the odds of me still being in your company when I get to that point are pretty slim in this economy... although that's as likely to be your doing as mine.
For another, what do you care about my goals? I know a lot of companies claim to care but the evidence I've seen suggests otherwise.
Like I said, the only honest thing I've thought of to put in there is "I want to engage in a mutually beneficial relationship where I do a job and you pay me for it, and I'll worry about my own damn goals thank you; if I'm applying for this job you can be assured that I think it is meeting my needs and who are you to decide any differently?"... which of course gets PCed down to the aforementioned "To become a respected software architect".
... Maybe I should just say "I want to be your boss"?
The cover letter I do better with (plenty of experiences to draw from to customize a resume without guilt), as long as I manage to steer clear of the "career goals" issue, but it suffers the same problem: Asking people to talk about "the future" is just begging them to bullshit you, and that includes their hypothetical and malleable-anyways goals. Why not just stick with the past: Where you've worked, what you've accomplished, at most where you are headed right now, and leave vague references to "future goals" alone? Then I don't have to make up absurd rationalizations for "Food and shelter cost money."
His Resume, with critiques. (Score:5, Insightful)
716-169 Lees Avenue, Ottawa Ontario, K1S 5M2 Phone: (613) 612-7561 Email: eric@kibbee.ca
PROFESSIONAL PROFILE
A new Software Engineering graduate looking for an introductory software development position. Participated in the co-operative education program, which provided four terms of directly related and progressive experience. A strong team player, as evidenced by excellent grades on the program's major final year team project.
EDUCATION
Bachelor of Applied Science, Software Engineering 1999 - 2004
University Of Ottawa
Participated in co-operative education programme
Graduated Magna Cum Laude
EXPERIENCE
Build Manager
Software Engineering Final Project
January - December 2003
Responsibilties
Final year project that was part of the program that followed all the steps of the software development life cycle
Developed on an on-line document management system
Designated role was Build Manager, but also participated in all aspects of the project
Used ASP and Visual Basic with MS Access as a database
Accomplishments
Completed the project on schedule and met all required performance criteria
Achieved a mark of "A" in the course based on customer satisfaction, documentation of the system and quality assurance presentations
Web Developer
Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness (OCIPEP)
May - August 2003
Responsibilties
Responsible for the upkeep and development of new features on the department Intranet site
Used Visual Basic
Accomplishments
Provided a high level of service and consistent performance of the Intranet
Developed new tools such as an employee directory and an events calendar
Web Developer
Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO)
August - December 2002
Responsibilties
Development of a web based financial tracking application
Used ASP with an MS Access database to allow for data entry and retrieval.
A significant portion of the job was to meet with clients and users to obtain new requirements and resolve existing problems
Accomplishments
Project completed on schedule and provided targeted functionality
Web Developer
Environment Canada (EC)
January - April 2002
Responsibilties
Responsible for working on many of EC's Intranet and Extranet web pages
Used JavaScript to create interactive menus for the website
Accomplishments
Completed a major update to the on-line version of the health and safety manual
Developed and implemented a Java based employee training application
Software Developer
Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC)
May - August 2001
Responsibilties
Responsible for reverse engineering an N-tier e-commerce web application
Worked jointly with a second software engineering student on the project
Analyzed the application that used a variety of technologies including ASP, VB, MS IIS, SQL, XML and COM
Accomplishments
The reverse engineering of the application was successfully completed
Developed skills with the above technologies and improved technical writing skills
SKILLS
Web Development - Experienced in web development with HTML, ASP, VB/VB.NET, and PHP
Database Development - Experienced in database development with MS SQL Server, MS Access, and MySQL.
Application Development - Experienced in applications development for both Windows and Linux, in a variety of programming languages including C/C++, Java, Delphi, and Visual Basic
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Whoever reads your resume is going to do so from the perspective of someone who needs X Y and Z, and needs it now. People are looking for a condensed skill section like "PHP, ASP, VB/VB.NET, HTML" (Don't lead with HTML). Your skills section is good, and would be a good leader, though it needs to be less wordy. Give me a list of what you can do. Remember, this list is targeting two peo
Re:Short resumes are a sign of a focused mind (Score:4, Insightful)
Again, I agree. I'm baffled at how many people just stick a generic "goal" at the top of their resume. Something like "Seeking employment in a challenging field, allowing me to further develop my experience and capabilities" is just a bunch of crap. Who the hell doesn't want a job like that?
As a matter of curiosity, what do you expect up there? How do you justify whatever answer you give in light of the fact that it all boils down to "I want the job you are offering" anyhow?
What makes you think you need ANYTHING up there? Why not just leave off the Objective? That goes back to the idea of making your point using as little fluff as possible. If you can't put something really novel there -- and I confess I don't know what that would be -- then just leave it off. It's clutter. Don't just state an objective because everyone else does. This is a resume, not a form. It's your chance to express yourself. There aren't any hard-and-fast rules.
The cover letter I do better with (plenty of experiences to draw from to customize a resume without guilt), as long as I manage to steer clear of the "career goals" issue, but it suffers the same problem: Asking people to talk about "the future" is just begging them to bullshit you, and that includes their hypothetical and malleable-anyways goals. Why not just stick with the past: Where you've worked, what you've accomplished, at most where you are headed right now, and leave vague references to "future goals" alone? Then I don't have to make up absurd rationalizations for "Food and shelter cost money."
Questions about long-term goals are pretty stupid and shouldn't be asked. However, they are somewhat related to a much more important question: why are you interested in working for that company. Presemably, it's because you think working for them would be exciting. So, when people ask you about your future goals, you can talk about what types of projects you'd like to be working on. Or, better still, talk about what you'd like to see the company accomplish and feel like you contributed in no small part to that achievement.
What my Dad always told me... (Score:4, Insightful)
(and minor in Business, not Math!)
I was 15 at the time, but I worked for $60 a week washing dishes. It gave me the confidence and understanding of the business world to be a "go getter".
I did the college thing, and while I did it I was working at tech-related jobs/consulting gigs here and there. Learning how the business world worked (as droll and drab as it may sound), is actually quite valuable. Learn about sales and marketing and it will help you sell your skillset and accomplishments to employers. I've only really had to "seek" work once (maybe twice) in my professional career. Every other time a job/headhunter has either come to me, or a friend of a peer, etc has offered me a job.
It's worth noting that about 70% of all [US] jobs are obtained via personal networking, and references.
Don't be anti-social!
Re:Cover letter! (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree with everything except the above statement. Send it as an attachment and in the body of the email, referencing an enclosure of the cover letter.
Here's what happens at the place I work: After inHuman Resources gets done with initial screening, they print out a copy of the email and any attachments, stamp it and send it via interoffice mail to the hiring department. While the attachments are usually nicely formatted and generally in the style that a human being would care to read, the same cannot be said of the printout of the body of the email. One person in HR apparently sets the text to 16pt for easy reading and prints it out that way. I've seen clipped sentences and far too much of the "System" or Courier 10pt emails. They never look good...
If you care enough about the position, ensure that you will be presenting your best face. About the only "safe" assumption you can make with emailing resumes is that your attachments should be Word documents unless otherwise stated. Oh yeah, and hit all the keywords for those companies that use HR as the initial screening process.
Pretty good way to get results... (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, don't let them know that you're intelligent. If you give them that impression, they will fear that you will realize how messed-up their processes and procedures are and point them out and try to change them. You have to pretend you're completely incompetent and will never have an opinion on anything, but rather just do as you're told.
I speak from personal experience.
Core dump. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What needs work is the curriculum at your colle (Score:4, Insightful)
There's nothing 'vocational' about it. Resume writing and interviewing are skills a person needs to get a job. College is the place where you learn those skills. It makes *sense* to have classes in such things. I went to a Big-10 college and earned a Bachelor of Science. It wasn't a vocational school and the department has an almost 100% placement rate within the first 3 months after graduation....without having to push students through the campus placement office. One of the first things we learned in the class is that resume spamming and using an over-taxed resource like a Placement Office are the absolute *WORST* ways to go about getting an interview.
I had a required class my senior year that covered resume writing (relevent to my major), portfolio layout and creation, and mock interviewing (with representatives from the industry for which I was going to be entering).
I'm in a position in my career now where I look at resumes and portfolios;many from recent college grads wanting to get their foot in the door. It is very easy to see which people have been taught the necessary skills to present themselves effectively. Unfotunately they the minority of the resumes I receive. I can honestly say, though, that the people who can present themselves well have a *huge* competitive advantage over the regular folks who think the Word Resume Wizard and a clumsy cover letter will get you a job.
You can belittle such required college classes all you want. I know, from experience, that the class I took was one of the more important classes I attended.
Re:None (Score:3, Insightful)
Second job: A friend called me, said he needed someone for a UNIX job, would I be interested? It was a cool company (at the time) so I interviewed with his manager, quit my first job and started a few weeks later. I'd outgrown the first job by then and had sent out letters and CVs - but by the time any of them called, I'd already signed. I was there 3.5 years. Converted my specialty from UNIX to Oracle while I was there.
Third job: A friend interviewed for a UNIX job, which she later turned down. The interviewer asked her on the way out if she knew any Oracle DBAs, he was hiring one of those too. She gave him my name, I interviewed with him when he was in my city, started a few days later. I'd been laid off from my second job in the NASDAQ meltdown and had sent out letters and CVs - but by the time any of them called, I'd already signed. I'm still there.
The moral of these 3 stories? It really is all about personal contacts. And I've done the same, a bunch of my friends have been hired through me too, either directly or through referrals. Skill in building networks of people is far more important than what most geeks think of when they think of networking.
Re:Some resume tips (Score:3, Insightful)