Networking in the Danger Zone? 691
Croaker-bg asks: "I currently am an Information Security/ Network Engineer for a large government contract firm and have recently seen several solicitations come across email regarding gigs in the Middle East and surrounding regions, including both Iraq and Afghanistan. Understanding that the pay might be good for being willing to face the hazards, I continue to have my curiosity perked by these short-term jaunts. Lately however, the news of fellow contractors being abducted has put a new spin on the hazards of working abroad in these areas. Has anyone survived such a trip and lived to tell the tale with a fat wallet? If so, would you consider doing it again or is it just to dangerous?"
Ask this guy (Score:5, Informative)
You're not alone (Score:5, Informative)
pics (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.darchiver.com/gallery/Vince
well, some personal pics in there as well. skip those.
Hazard Pay (Score:5, Informative)
Recent Episode of Thsi American Life (Score:3, Informative)
Go to the Balkans (Score:5, Informative)
As far as the Middle East, I think you could remain pretty safe if you just kept to yourself and didn't do too much playing around outside of the base.
On a related note, I would like to see a comparison of the daily murder rate in Iraq compared to the daily murder rate for an inner-city such as, oh, let's say Detroit. Granted, beheading is a bit worse than a drive-by, but it's not like it's an every-day thing.
Re:Only one way... (Score:5, Informative)
Whether you think the war is right or not, he is there and feels like he is "serving his country." This is not your average yahoo.
Anyway, he sums it up like this. 60% of the people want us there, 20 percent don't care and would like us to get out as soon as we can and the reamaining 20% are completely insane and un/miseducated fanatics.
If you're interested in reading his blog, he is at
http://www.missick.com
Enlightening reads whether you agree with his views or not.
Hope you find this worthwhile.
Get your facts straight! (Score:5, Informative)
To contribute to the grandparent's discussion, as far as I know you are kind of supposed to know how to deal with a gun if you are a civilian contractor down there, or at least carry it. (Got the story from a lady working for one of the aerospace companies who was visiting Iraq briefly, and she told that you are given a gun to hold and at least pretend that you know how to use it).
As to the actual 'Ask
To answer the question, I guess that my wife would not let me go there...
Paul B.
Re:Not worth it (Score:5, Informative)
Was your question about the "front lines" serious, or some sort of display of ignorance?
I'm from the Private Sector, and I'm here to help (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'd do it (Score:1, Informative)
Only the really gruesome cases like the 4 charred bodies in Falluja, or recently the abductions and beheadings make it to the evening news. In case of the abductions the media attention is guarantued because of the homemade-videos (always something the media jumps on).
Flamebait:
As a non-american, I am kinda surprised about the outrage in the US, considering that there are currently 125+ investigations of prisoner deaths killed in US custody going on. Looks as if the US is still winning
Money fades. Bullet holes don't. (Score:5, Informative)
Money fades. Bullet holes don't.
Re:Hazard Pay (Score:3, Informative)
Computer pukes in the military.... (Score:2, Informative)
USAF are "Combat Communications Groups" or "Com" units suplimented with regular base level "com" people from "Communcations Squadrons" from various bases.
Navy and Marines
And of course there are some exceptions to what I just wrote.
Re:I did... (Score:5, Informative)
I say this having been born in south africa, living in Johannesburg, working in malaysia, and living now in LA.
Re:Don't risk your life. (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, it's more dangerous than a lot of the places in the US/Europe/etc, but, nowhere near as bad as the media tries to make it out.
Last time I was in the area, during the HIGHT of the previous "war", I found one, yes ONE, person who got in my face for being "American". I politely explained to him that I was not, and even if I were I was there as a traveler not as a representant of my government. He refused let it be and soon enough the other people around told him, in Arabic, to shut up and leave us alone - I was there with a friend.
Eventually he tried to "get physical" and I chucked him off the ferry (Yes in the water. No the capitan was not amused; but, when the locals explained the situation he had a hard time refraining from laughing.).
The rest of locals were VERY apologetic for this a-hole's behaviour and congratulated me on having the guts to stand up to him.
Or, maybe I am just a lucky bastard?
Its no worse than many other places (Score:3, Informative)
About a year ago, I purchased a grey market tractor from a man who makes his living off of international trade. He has spent much time on foreign soils wheeling and dealing heavy equipment. He has a physique like a green beret, was raised on a farm, and yet has a law degree with a specialty in international law. I recognized him as an expert in international affairs. Someone in the trenches, not the ivory towers. And I started asking him about his experiences.
Amongst the more interesting things he stated was that given the current world situation, even before the whole deal with Iraq started, he had decided to stay home for a while. He might consider a trip to Canada, but would not go to Mexico without a few of his ex-Ranger body guards and would under no circumstance venture to South America. He said that worldwide, it had become an accepted business to capture Americans and ransom them back or use them for political means. The authorities in the countries were of no help and usually on the bankroll themselves.
This was not your average everyday traveller, but a seasoned veteran with heavy duty protection.
After that discussion and listening to his accounts of how common this problem actually was, especially of friends and acquaintances he knew in the biz who had actually encountered troubles, I'm surprised that there hasn't been far more trouble in Iraq. In truth, it sounds as if the heavy protection being supplied to the contractors there is making them safer than if they were in South America. The only difference is that both the news media and the captors involved in the Iraq situation are motivated to amplify this microcosm of the overall story while they seem motivated to suppress the story of the true worldwide situation.
So, enjoy your trip to Iraq. But be very careful of Columbia, Peru, Brazil, Indonesia, etc.
Re:Hazard Pay (Score:1, Informative)
Contractors also have income tax exclusions up to a certain pay amount but I don't have the details.
Re:Not worth it (Score:5, Informative)
Scale Of Hazard, YMMV... (Score:5, Informative)
Afghanistan: The Kabul/Bagram area are relatively safe. Occasional bombings and shootings sound worse in the media than is perceived locally. Locals don't see you as a target. Resist the temptation to see the rest of the country, and you'll be fine. Heroin use among foreign rear echelon motherfuckers is 'way up... do avoid that.
Kuwait: basically safe, but events in Iraq and SA will continue increase tensions. Do as you would in most poor nations (which Kuwait is not) and try not to stand out. Do a year or two and call it a day.
Bahrain: more of a disconnect between rulers and ruled than Kuwait. Looks good compared to SA, Iraq, Afghan.
Qatar & UAE: Looks good. Act conservatively, as has been the case in the Gulf all along. If SA goes down the shitter, there will be spill over, but at least you'll have plenty of warning.
Saudi: things are going to get worse before they get better. Do not take your family, as you'll be forced to live in a foreign compound. If at all posible, live in well off but Arab-heavy apartment complexes or developments. Make a habit of varying your routine outside of the office. Have in mind an alternate exit from said office.
Iraq: If you're lucky enough to work AND live strictly within the occupation authority's green zone in downtown Baghdad, knock yourself out. Keep in mind that that zone will be shrinking considerably over the next 12 months into a still huge US Embassy, so make sure you don't get stuck outside with a housing allowance and a pat on the back. For the less risk adverse, 24x7 at one of the bigger military bases is a consideration. Next down the list is Metro Basra as long as the Badr (as opposed to Sadr) militia and it's political front stay happy. Ditto with the Kurdish areas, which aren't much worse than eastern Turkey. Pass on Mosul, Kirkuk, and the whole rest of the country. If you're going to be driving anywhere, for God's sake opt for small, cheap sedans. Big sedans are begging to be car jacked, and SUVs broadcast "USA" like a HUMMV.
Iran: I throw this in for contrast. If a US citizen/resident alien, your biggest problem will be explaining yourself to Uncle Sam. Consult with an attorney to make darn sure you aren't in conflict with US economic restrictions on trade with Iran before you go. Don't hit on local women, bad mouth Islam or the government, or take pictures of any thing that even resembles a government or military installation. In fact, this is more of a normal overseas posting, so it's not nearly as lucrative. There are some up to date tourist guide books on the country, and good poop from the British and Australian Embassy web sites.
Re:Where are these jobs? (Score:5, Informative)
This is complete FUD (Score:4, Informative)
Obviously this person does not know what he's talking about. The world outside the US is not as frightening as some people want to make it sound. Warzones, of course, are a different matter.
Re:no time for love dr jones (Score:1, Informative)
So, there really haven't been a number of civilian contractors recently tortured, shot, and beheaded in Iraq? I knew CNN was making all that up, down to publishing the videos of Nick Berg's "death" on the web...
I'm not one to blindly buy everything the media is selling, but I'd probably guess that in this case, assuming Iraq is a dangerous place and that going there might get you killed is not an unreasonable conclusion.
Re:This is complete FUD (Score:5, Informative)
When I was younger (77-82) I lived in Panama, then Colombia. Panama had the Canal Zone back then and that was completely safe. Bogota on the other hand was not. Within one month of living there, our house was burglarized (while we were out for lunch) and had thousands of dollars of jewelry, cameras, and electronics taken. Oh, and a loaded 9mm.
After that the embassy posted a 24hr armed guard on my doorstep. For every day of the next two years I had some guy in a uniform with a
About 6 months later (and a few hundred miles away) we had our van broken into and more stuff taken including *another* pistol.
Most of the vehicles that the Embassy used or loaned out there had bullet-proof inserts behind the windows. Most of the moderate to high ranked Colombian officials had similar vehicles as well.
I'd still like to go back and visit again someday, but would feel rather leery staying more than say a week or so. Iraq may be worse for more personal attacks, but Central America is still pretty high risk in several of the countries. But there are many that are probably fairly safe.. I just haven't kept track of which lately. For the latest, you should check out the travel warnings [state.gov] put out by the US Department of State...
Re:Are you joking? (Score:1, Informative)
You've proven yourself to have poor insight into the poster's comment. I hate it when people mock others self-righteously (whether ignorantly).
Re:Whatever happened to the Army Corps Of Engineer (Score:3, Informative)
The CoE does mostly CIVIL engineering. Dams, flood control, and miscelaneous hydrology are their main contribution to infrastructure creation. They're mainly a construction corps. Anything requiring esoteric technical knowledge is generally contracted out to private companies that specialize in those sorts of things.
Re:Are you joking? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, because as we all know, Halliburton is in Iraq to establish a better way of life for Iraqis, not because of the huge no-bid contracts [commondreams.org] that were coordinated by ex-CEO and now Vice Predident Dick Cheney. [yahoo.com]
Pardon me if I fail to see the humanitarian intentions of an oil company with close - possibly criminal - ties to the administration.
Re:Only one way... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:no time for love dr jones (Score:2, Informative)
Before you do, however, I strongly sugest you look into the courses available at the Gunsite Academy or with Massad Ayoob's group or LFI..and take all you can afford before boarding that plane.
Re:You'd be better off becoming a drug dealer (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Skin color is important (Score:5, Informative)
What's much more important in terms of standing out is how you dress and how you act. If you can speak the local language, or at the very least Arabic which is something of a lingua franca throughout the region, you've got a huge advantage. If you can dress like the locals and walk like you belong there, you're not likely to stand out as a target regardless of skin colour.
Nonetheless, neither place is at all safe for westerners, particularly ones carrying blue passports, regardless of skin colour or even linguistic ability. There is a lot to be said for travelling to broaden your worldview, but right now Iraq and Afghanistan would not be on my list of places to go.
Re:Not worth it (Score:1, Informative)
Someone's safety may be at stake here; so rein in that ego.
I would concur that so-called "lines" do indeed seem very blurry in this mess. This "Sunni triangle" you refer to is primarily a linguistic construct, with only a distant basis in geography. It's not as if you can actually draw such a triangle on a map with the intention of using it as a guide for safety on the ground!
Areas of influence are very fluid, and difficult to identify, especially in the ethnically-diverse urban environments where such technical contracts would be most likely found. Extremists are filtering in from other countries to wreak havoc.
Being armed or having guards may not be enough. If you are white, affluent, foreign, non-Muslim, working for the occupation or worst yet all of the above, you become a target. To get comfortable and establish a routine is to risk making oneself an easy target. You can't even trust your cab driver.
IMHO there are many ways to see the world and make money which would be far safer.
I have to weigh in on this one (Score:4, Informative)
In case you were unaware, these contractors keep guys on the ground in those countries; some of them have been there for 20 years or more. These are local people who live there, speak the language, and are employed/paid by these companies to maintain caches of equipment, buildings, etc... these companies don't just fly in a bunch of pale-faces, rake in the cash, and fly out.
They subcontract with a lot of local people to cook food, do construction, and all manner of services for the military, and they do a fair job of it. They maintain a lot of relationships... It's probably a little unfair to simply characterize them as profiteering gluttons (and no, I don't work for them, never have, and don't plan to).
Contractors provide a lot of services, and while they certainly do it for a profit, that's no different from 99% of people in a capitalist system. Doing things out of the goodness of your heart is very noble, but money's a powerful motivator, and people going out into a war zone to do a job (particularly if they're providing expertise that the Iraqis need) should get a fair wage... I'd say they're earning it.
No, don't go (Score:2, Informative)