Would You Move to Space? 145
garyebickford asks: "Slashdot discussions on the SpaceShipOne flight talked about whether folks would take the flight if offered. It reminded me of a question that used to go around. If you were offered the opportunity to move permanently into space - perhaps an orbital environment, or asteroid (mining?) or another planet, etc. - and you had an 80% chance of living five years, would you take it? What if your chances were 50%?"
Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, just imagine the view every morning when you wake up. Every. Single. Morning. I'd risk my life for that, yes.
It'd be nice to live free for once.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:3, Funny)
Also, just imagine the view every morning when you wake up. Every. Single. Morning.
There would be no such thing as a "morning" anymore.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2, Funny)
What is this "sunlight" people keep telling me about?
morning (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:4, Interesting)
So don't kid yourself that you'll be living free, or indeed reaping any kind of "bounty" other than the montly paycheck from your employers. Granted, the first few individuals to do this sort of work are likely to get some highly lucrative danger money; but if & when asteroid mining becomes routine, it'll be a pretty unglamorous life.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:3)
Yes, but not working for minimum wage. It's extremely risky work, using extremely expensive equipment which will require costly training. Anyone working on an asteroid will be paid well.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
How often do you get up to see it?
Seeing Earth out your window would be cool... for a month. After that, it's like anything else. Been there, seen that.
This is coming from someone who lives on a hill and has an incredible view of California out my living room window -- Los Angeles to the North, all the way down the coast to San Diego to the South (on a clear day, of course) and beautiful mountains to the East. Yeah, it's
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
How often do you get up to see it?
I can stare at an Earthrise. If I do that with a sunrise, I kinda get a burning in the retinas.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:3, Insightful)
sad thing is, it would be boring in reality. after a while it would be ha
live free (Score:2)
The psycological issues of living in confined quarters in space are similar to those in prison or a submarine. Living in a very small space, with the same people for prolonged periods of time is not very nice, and it is what is considered as "removing the freedom" of a convict.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:3, Interesting)
Near-earth asteroids. I don't know if anyone really thinks mining the asteroid belt will be doable for a very, very long time. But there are thousands of large rocks near the Earth (like one which the BBC has said is estimated to hold, at current prices, $20 trillion in minerals), and we can be mining those for a very long time before ever touching the Mars-Jupiter belt.
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:2)
Re:Costs:Benefits analysis (Score:3, Interesting)
This interests me. I've heard about mining asteroids, and speaking of the percent of them that are iron, nickel, copper, platinum, etc.
I have questions
Depends (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Depends (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Depends (Score:2)
L.A.? (Score:5, Funny)
80% chance (Score:2)
Kum-by-ya. (Score:3, Funny)
What if there was peace, love and understanding on the Earth, so we wouldn't feel the pressure to leave?
Re:Kum-by-ya. (Score:3, Insightful)
We want to go there. It isn't a pressure away from Earth, it's a pull to the unknown.
Re:Kum-by-ya. (Score:2)
Yes because it would be boring. What would be left to do? The problem with perfection is that it is so dull.
BTW there is peace, love, and understanding on Earth.
Re:Kum-by-ya. (Score:3, Insightful)
We are what we are; we will take our problems with us. People imagine that some magic ideology and some kind of all-knowing government will change things, but that's a fantasy.
Perhaps (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes and yes. Those aren't great odds but the odds of being safe inside a automobile aren't great either... I'd rather die doing something that no humans have ever done...
Kind of reminds of what someone much wiser than myself said on a similar subject here. [slashdot.org]
Re:Yes. (Score:1)
Re:Yes. (Score:2)
Hmm... Depends on how much better the robot body would be than my current one I guess. Sounds like it might be fun, but then again I might miss the old ugly bag of mostly water. ;)
Re:Yes. (Score:1)
Re:Yes. (Score:2)
While that sounds great, if you're one of the 50,000 people in the US killed in an automobile accident each year, you're still 100% dead.
Yeah, of course (Score:3, Funny)
Before The Wife and Kids... (Score:3, Insightful)
for me, before the wife... (Score:4, Interesting)
in all sincerity, I expressed the following..
should the opportunity arise where I could go into space, even on a one-way trip (generation ship, suicide mission, whatever) and she could not go, (denied for whatever reason) I wouldn't go, but if she had the same opportunity, and declined to go,(doesn't want to leave the kids, doesn't want to leave the planet,) I'd go without her. she looked at me, said "ok" and immediately started laughing.
I meant it, most truly, and remind her about it occasionally..
Re:for me, before the wife... (Score:3, Funny)
She can lay claim to the house, the car, the money, the kids
you can lay claim to any potential space flights which may or may not arise and any start wars action figures you might have brought to the marriage.
Aim big I say. =)
the final frontier (Score:5, Funny)
but seriously, who wouldn't. even if it sucks, humans are hardwired to explore new places, even if it's dangerous or they're not wanted.
for further reading on human nature see the works of Smith, Agent.
Hell yes. (Score:4, Interesting)
Give me a six-pack worth of O2 and enough water to recycle through myself for 10 years or so, and I'll oversee the robotics on any asteroid you want.
Of course, the issue of hydroponics - and what you can and cannot grow - would have to be worked out first.
Just sign me up for the standard "Human Sustenance Science Package" (strictly -NOT- from Ikea, please...) and I'm there. Got my boots on right now.
The possibilities for freedom on this planet have been long-since removed by the powers that be. Gimme another planet, or some other space body, and watch out. My descendants will be back in 50 years to re-claim Earth!
Re:Hell yes. (Score:2)
OK, for everyone who wants to go live in space cause it's 'free,' remember there are millions of square miles of ocean right here on earth to live on that no one claims ownership of. All you need is a boat and a bit of skill.
If you want isolation, even in the 21st century you can isolate yourself from humanity just as much by going to sea, plus you get those beautiful sunsets/sunrises all to yourself.
Re:Hell yes. (Score:2)
Re:Hell yes. (Score:2)
The OP referred to wanting to live in space in order to be free and escape "normal" society and government. I suggested he get a sailboat and live alone at sea (outside territorial waters). The remotest place I've ever been is in the middle of the Atlantic and it's a hell of a lot easier to do that than to move to space in the near future. No assumption of building a society was made, but that is an interesting idea...
Living on the Ocean 24/7/365 (Score:2)
Re:Living on the Ocean 24/7/365 (Score:2)
Change "not nearly" to "not remotely" and I will agree with you. That's all I've been saying: it's far easier to build on Earth. All of the resource problems you (correctly) identify with living at sea would also exist in space.
Re:Hell yes. (Score:2)
Yeah, that about sums it up. Dream up obstacles!
Dude, if you're worried about "Trident-class subs all over your ass" the same thing would exist in space. If you could get there, then governments could also, and they'll always have bigger guns than you. This is nothing new, been that way for millenia.
Real explorers learned to just ignore that and get on with the business of exploring.
Are you sure you're not just trying to get away from yourself?
Hell yeah, I would. (Score:3, Interesting)
In that one minute I would see, learn, and experience more than most people see, learn, and experience in their entire lives. I would have an idea of my place in the universe that few currently have.
All of that near infinite universe and the chance to experience it outside the earth? Yeah, that's worth dieing for. An 80% chance of dieing within five years? I'd consider that a bonus - more time to experience it.
Yeah, I'm an oddball.
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
I guess it's a good thing that not everyone has that attitude, or there'd be no "others" to work out the bugs for you.
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Buzz Aldrin got more than 60 seconds worth of view, but had no realistic expectation of surviving to tell about it. Does that make him stupid?
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Ahh...now I understand...you proceed from an incorrect assumption. I do want to look at the earth, yes (from space). I'd also like to look at maybe Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, and (assuming some unimaginable advance in propulsion systems before I die) planets outside of the sol's gravity well. The ability to take that look is worth something, maybe my life, maybe not...obviously it's not worth your life (we're using two different price lists), but that's just
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Of course, you could have just said that before, but this *is* Slashdot. I salute you on your ability to protract an argument.
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
We. Are. In. Space. Already.
Right now as I type, and then as you read, we are traveling through space on a large (by our standards not the Universe's) rock. Stepping outside this rock's thin layer of atmosphere to get a better look at the stars is a matter better suited for a space based telescope. Sure, I like to experience extended periods of weighlessness and look at the stars from a little more clear perspective, but I wouldn't want to travel in a manner which is less
OT: Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Right now as I type, and then as you read, we are traveling through space...
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
*sigh* Right. We won't see colonization of space. Whatever you say. Why don't we just back up a bit and we caqn see how many other things there are that should have been discounted out-of-hand, shall we?
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Early avaiation was explored by two brothers on winter vaca
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
Space travel is not space colonization, but the two have a symbiotic relationship, and advancing one means advancing the other. It is true, at present, that we have to resupply all habitats to sustain life...all the more reason for active work to be done on severing that tie.
Early avaiation was explored by two b
Re:Hell yeah, I would. (Score:2)
I keep hearing this comparison of commercialization of space
Maybe, if I didn't like the Alliance... (Score:2)
More seriously, what's the pay? If asteroid mining rakes it in, maybe they'd need an IT Manager. Can't be worse than a fly-in-fly-out job in Tanzania.
No, but (Score:4, Insightful)
*you* did. And take your friends, too!
I mean, really, earth would be a great
place if it wasn't for the people.
On a more serious note, though, until
we can travel at the speed-of-thought
and *then* find a suitable earth-like
planet, I'd rather we spent our time
trying to fix our damaged ecological
and societal systems.
Peace & Blessings,
bmac
For me and for others (Score:3, Interesting)
80% chance better than our forerathers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that I know the actual stats, but 80% survival rate over 5 years sounds pretty good. What was the survival rate of the early European-American colonists? Accounting for disease, starvation, being stabbed by someone or eaten by something - would it be better than 80%? Probably not.
So hell yes. I'd go. Anyone with a sense of adventure and courage would go (or in Australia's case, anyone with a criminal record).
The rewards are potentially massive (better than a tiny farm plot which is all the early colonists got) and the experience?! To have your name recorded as one of the first to colonise off-earth! Immortality is yours! Go and take it!
I don't think anyone could argue that a shortage of highly motivated and suitable volunteers would be a problem. Rather, the real problem is getting us all up there. At 80% or 50% or even 10%.
I'm ready now.
Re:80% chance better than our forerathers? (Score:2)
I guess I'm getting old or something. I'd love to live in space. But I don't like those odds.
Re:80% chance better than our forerathers? (Score:2)
By the time people get out there in large numbers, they may have a hostile, well-equipped, robot-enabled, technically-savvy, indigenous population to deal with.
No bellboy up here? (Score:1)
80% over 5 years... that's damn good odds. Better than driving in LA traffic for a year
Utterly iInfantile religious question (Score:4, Interesting)
** There is more to making such a decision than the presence (or lack thereof) of vaccum around the place we call home **.
Questions such as these arise:
* What are the prospects of a quality life there? (which leads to further questions like how we measure quality of life - by the amount of green around our house? the amount of accessible online gadget stores that ship to our location?)
* What are the prospects of economic prosperity there? Taxation? Salaries?
* Can I work in my chosen field there?
* Can I practice my recreation activities there? (Think diving, snowboarding, etc.)
* What kind of mentality do the people who live there share?
* WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES?
Hell, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Would I move into space? Tell me what's waiting for me there and what I'm running from here for starters, and I'll consider it.
The only people who'd answer such a question offhand are people who are either miserable with their current lives, don't have any, or are very deep into their fantasy worlds.
That kind of problem can usually be solved using much simpler methods.
I was nearly an astronaut (Score:4, Funny)
He said if he'd pulled out 2 seconds earlier I would have been shot into space.
Have Spacesuit, will travel :-) (Score:1)
Hm, maybe... Support Spacegeeks Worldwide at these (and many more) organizations:
Mars Society [marssociety.org]
Mars Frontier [mars-frontier.org]
Planetary Society [planetarysociety.org]
Space Frontier [space-frontier.org]
One question: (Score:2)
Life's Short Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd love to go into space, but I don't see why it has to be risky, or why we should accept high risks in a gung-ho fasion. There is plenty of intelligent and advanced engineering that can be done to minimise risk. I realise that people do dangerous things like mountaineering for sport and for fun, but that's not my cup of tea.
As I get older, and become more aware of the limited time available for life, I realise that there's lots to do. Anyone can put their body into space, alive or dead, for short periods of time. What I'm saying is there is more to most people than a physical presence.
I can imagine getting very bored with being in space, cooped up in a tiny craft for any length of time. Many of us don't appreciate the importance to our well-being and sanity of being in the natural environment which we've evolved to be in. Could you imagine being in a tin can for years breathing recycled air, having nothing to eat but a small selection of plants and freeze-dried food? What about experiencing day and night, wind, tide, rain, hearing bird song, the fragrance of flowers and freshly cut grass or a good chicken jalfrezi? What about the company of friends and family? What about gravity? Wouldn't you get bored with floating about all the time and not being able to walk?
I'd love to go into space, for a week or two, in a safe, reliable and comfortable craft. Some people have that gung-ho spirit and would throw their lives and well-being away for a few minutes of experience that one day will be as common as walking down the street. Whatever floats your boat.
Personally, I'd prefer a more considered and rational approach, but heck, I'm rapidly becoming and old git.
Re:Life's Short Enough (Score:2)
I know, what about experiencing an earth-rise, floating in zero gravity with the entire universe beneath your feet, seeing nebula with the naked eye and stars as bright as diamonds. I mean, you can't just live your life in some crappy space port and expect to see anything as mind-shatteringly cool as that. Err, oh wait...
Re:Life's Short Enough (Score:3, Interesting)
Like I said in my post, it would be nice for a week or two, but the novelty would soon wear off and I'd be craving my earthly paradise. For me it's not worth givin up my life to experienc
Re:Life goes on for a long time (Score:2)
Is life so cheap? Is this not what the holy people refer to as "selling your soul to the devil?" An eternity of nothingness for a brief glimpse of something forbidden?
The important thing is to document and share the knowledge so that life can go on.
Well, quite. So why does it have to be a fleeting, self-seriving sacrifice to experience bright lights and other eye-ca
Too vague to answer. (Score:5, Insightful)
Five years sitting inside a small capsule just to prove it can be done - forget it.
Five years in a moderately cramped environment with good communications, building part of a real space station, participiting in the escape from Earth - you're on.
While danger is not irrelevant, the cause, the goal, is much more relevant. People have taken huge risks for a cause they believe in - and lost, not infrequently. I believe in trying to ensure that humanity is not limited by the finite resources of the Earth. I want humans to inherit the stars. I am prepared to risk quite a lot of danger, and quite a lot of discomfort, in that goal. But not infinite danger, and not infinite discomfot.
So - give me a worthwhile job to do, and I'll sign up.
Bandwidth? (Score:1)
Armageddon (Score:4, Insightful)
very hard and continuous manual labour (Score:1)
The problem extends, and is more general. Every time I hear of electronics in s
Re:Armageddon (Score:2)
Yea, just think of the R&R time. My UT2004 pings would be through the roof!
Re:Armageddon (Score:2)
You're in space. Where else would they go?
Freedom (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course at some point said colonies would get their independence, and presumably could offer some "freedom" for newcomers. Of course, acquiring independence has traditionally been a bloody mess, and as often as not has lead to a very unfree dictatorship...
Once independent, the new colonies would be kindly requested to sign trade treaties etc, and as a condition to doing so, promise protection for intellectual property etc. Until and unless they'd be totally self-sufficient, the colonies would have to agree to limit music downloads and software piracy and everything else the earthlings demand...
All in all, going to space will happen, it will be exciting, dangerous, and rewarding, but it will not provide much "freedom" in any way. That's my prediction.
Re:Freedom (Score:2)
Re:Freedom (Score:2)
Given that bandwidth would start becoming less of a concern over interplanetary transmissions, I'm guessing that the Inter(pla)net would be developed around some form a queued requests for large information archives. e.g. A request for slashdot.org would return all current pages and images. Large file downloads would probably come in separate requests.
Re:Freedom (Score:2)
Earth->Mars communications are O(20 minutes) so caching would probably become quite important.
I see UDP taking a greater role; where archives are sent via UDP with a sequence number embedded in them (CRC32 for integrity of course) The document is reconstructed in RAM; requests for missing segments can be sent as soon as they are detected and the missing packets can be appended onto the end of
Without even thinking (Score:2)
When most people look at the night sky, seeing the wonders of the universe layed out before them, they see many different things, signs from above, pictures etc.
When I look at the night sky, I see a billion suns that I will never visit (except in fiction), a hundred billion planets that I will never see, or wal
Man, you guys are nuts (Score:2)
HIGH LATENCY TO QUAKE 3 SERVERS.
oh yeah? (Score:2, Funny)
Yes I would. (Score:2)
Ties to Earth (Score:2)
Since I'm married with a daughter and a son on the way, I'd have to say no - unless I could persuade them to come with me.
I'd love to emigrate to Mars. If the option becomes available within my lifetime, I *know* I'll try to persuade them. My wife won't go for it, but who knows how my kids will feel when they grow up... maybe they can persuade Mommy
Just remember.. (Score:3)
Um, no. (Score:2)
Secondly, and more importantly, here on Earth I have a family, the ability to enjoy the outdoors unencumbered by a survival suit, weather, seasons, and all the nice things that accompany a home. The only things I have here that I don't like are bills. But when you pay them, they seem to go away for a few weeks (go figure).
Giving that up to live in space, likely performing drudge work for whoever financed the trip is not my lifestyle of choice.
However, given favorable odd
One word: Outland (Score:3, Interesting)
The drugs and hookers would have to be _really_ good. But forgetting to put your helmet on during decompression can be a mind-blowing bummer.
This overlooked movie has always been my standard to judge all movies about what "fun" it would be to work in the greater solar system.
I've thought about this some... (Score:3, Informative)
With an 80% chance of survival... I think I'd do it now, as long as my S.O. could go with me, and I think she would. As for 50%... well, let's just say that I'd wait a little while longer until the odds got better.
If you've not read Red Mars, as well as the rest of the series (Green Mars, Blue Mars) I highly reccomend it. KSR is on comissions at NASA and elsewhere for Mars colonization. He certainly knows what he's talking about. The really great thing about Red Mars is that it is very, very realistic- there isn't a lot that we couldn't do now with the right resources. When you read a book that is *so* close to what we could achieve now, it really makes you think, and makes you wish you could be one of the First Hundren.
Achilles' choice (Score:3, Informative)
I'd have to take the chance if it was offered. How many people have had the chance to fly in space? Even with all of its risks, I'd have to try.
Re: (Score:2)
Absolutely! (Score:2)
I've always had an interest in spaceflight, and in studying asteroids. I'd gladly give up a lot of things for the chance to fly up into space and live there, study there, put myself into the history books, etc.
Risk is always present. I might get run over by a truck tomorrow, or perhaps some Muslim bozo SOB will drop a nuke on Chicago and I'll
Populatirty of the idea (Score:2)
Why I would move to a colony in Space (Score:2)
Many colonies in America had some absolutely huge disasters. Buena Vista (now Los Angeles) was a small Spanish colonial settlement that died off completely due to a lack of water. The settlers litterally died of starvation. Similar problems happened in Jamestown for the original settlement of Virginia, where the entire settlement of over 100 people completely disappeared. There are some suggestions that the settlers "went native", and adopted t
Re:Why I would move to a colony in Space (Score:2)
I don't really see how living on Mars could be profitable, so that motivation is gone. As far as being free on Mars, I don't know if such a situation would ever truely exist. How can you show that the plot of land that you own i
Re:Why I would move to a colony in Space (Score:2)
Re:Populatirty of the idea (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Absolutely... (Score:3, Insightful)