Cooling a Digital Camera? 52
thusson asks: "I work at a lab doing intrinsic signal imaging of cat and mouse visual cortex (brains). We are using a Dalsa 1M60P camera, and we want to cool it about 30-50 degrees C to improve picture quality by reducing noise. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to do this? So far, heat sinks have helped but only by a few degrees. I figure the overclocking community is a good place for novel ideas."
There is a better question to ask... (Score:2, Insightful)
Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
#1 - Is your claim valid
#2 - Will the camera work at that temperature
#3 - Try some liquid nitrogen. Or, some spray dusters turned upside down.
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Quick run in the head is somewhere from 86F to 122F. Not sure how hot the body temperature of your average mouse is though.
This guy [slashdot.org] got it right by asking what exactly they need cooled, and for what ends?
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
2. Most cameras are unlikely to be specified to work at such low temperatures. I think that has more to do with battery power than anything else... cool the batteries too much and they can't output electrical energy fast enough to drive the camera.
3. How often do you take pictures? Do you need the camera cool all of the time. Why not just put it in the
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Actually they do make stuff specifically for freezing stuff. We use it at work, although I forget what it's called, here's an example [tselectronic.com]. About -45C when you spray really close to the nozzle. It's even anti-static!
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
You could always try taking the plastic cover of the camera off, then make a box or tube to put the remaining of the camera in. Then you can attach an A/C unit's output too it. If you had something like a dehumidifier or an A/C unit, where the air passed over the coils, you'd be much better off since it
Peltier junction? (Score:4, Informative)
Piezo (Score:2)
Or so I'm told.
Re:Piezo (Score:1)
There are solid state devices that move heat, though -- a Peltier cooler [wikipedia.org] is one. People have been using these for overclocking their computers and they seem quite useful. I've never used one, though.
Re:Piezo (Score:2)
Re:Piezo - NOT (Score:4, Informative)
Learn about thermodynamics first? (Score:3, Insightful)
So far, heat sinks have helped but only by a few degrees
What makes you think that heat sinks will lower the temperature by 30-50 C? At best, heat sinks will lower the temperature to that of the surrounding room.
If you want something cooler, you'll need to use Dry Ice or refridgeration or some external input.
Re:Learn about thermodynamics first? (Score:2, Informative)
More seriously, I recommend the book "Hot Air Rises and Heat Sinks" by Tony Kordyban as a good intro to thermal issues with electronics - including a real explanation of heatsinks.
he didn't think they'd do it (Score:2)
Peltier elements (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Peltier elements (Score:2)
Re:Peltier elements (Score:2)
We use water cooling (Score:3, Informative)
Cooling?? (Score:1, Informative)
Would you like to re-write the question so it actually makes sense?
Re:Cooling?? (Score:2)
Yes, heaven help us from having to figure out that even though the poster used unambiguous language that he probably meant 30 - 50 cooler as opposed to boiling the camera.
How about the poster doesn't need any help from idiots too dumb to figure this out?
Re:Cooling?? (Score:2)
Cooling a digital camera (Score:5, Informative)
With very careful design and construction, you can use a multi-stage TE cooler to get more than a 50C offset from room temperature. It requires careful attention to insulation, and to heatsinking of the first (hottest) stage.
Before you go cooling your camera, though, you should check whether it is designed to run cold. Any device, cooled to -30C (or even to 10 degrees below room temperature, in Tennessee humidity) will start to condense water. To run a camera cold, it must be designed to be water-tight, and must almost certainly have a dry-gas-filled double window (or vacuum double window) on the front, with the outer window heated to prevent fogging.
Overall, unless the camera was specifically designed to be cooled, you may be better off buying one that is appropriately designed, unless you have a lot of time, money, and expertise to put into the engineering. Certainly talk to the manufacturers of the camera you have before you start cooling it, and see if they sell a kit cor conversion.
Thermoelectric (Score:2, Insightful)
There's a good example here [yahoo.com]
seek out the astronomers (Score:4, Interesting)
Scientific Cameras (Score:2)
Your question is not very specific (Score:5, Informative)
There are two solutions to this problem. The first, is to cool your sensor like you asked. A peltier cooler in between the sensor and the heatsink is the only way to do this. A heatsink will reduce you to ambient temperature at best. If you want to go below that, you need a peltier cooler at least, or something much more exotic like a compressor-based refrigeration unit, evaporative cooler, or liquid nitrogen cooling.
Alternately, you could use a CCD with a cooler already built in, such as those from Santa Barbara Instrument Group [sbig.com].
Finally, you could simply use a sensor that isn't so noisy. All the digital SLR cameras nowadays use CMOS sensor technology, because it's bigger than CCD primarily, but it also has a lot less noise since it isn't crammed into such a small space.
Another approach often used by astronomers is to take the noisy CCD, do an exposure of a given length, then cover it so no light can reach it, and take another exposure of the same length to create a "dark frame" that contains nothing but noise. The noise in both images will be approximately equal, and can be subtracted out using photoshop or similar software, resulting in a very clean image.
Re:Your question is not very specific (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Your question is not very specific (Score:2)
Thanks for pointing out what exactly why it's done.
Ice (Score:2)
Peltier Coolers (Score:2)
Freezer? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Freezer? (Score:1)
I'm no expert on cooling, but I've gotten the impression in the past that one of the large problems with freezers is that when something is taken out of them, water tends to condense on them. They would have to make sure the freezer temperature didn't drop below the dew point [wikipedia.org], I suppose, to be safe.
Re:Freezer? (Score:2)
buy a walk-in freezer and a dehumidifier.
note: try not to get locked in the freezer.
-grump
Re:Freezer? (Score:2)
Then the problem becomes controlling condensation and humidity in the lab as you move it from the freezer to the experiment...
Re:Freezer? (Score:2)
Good for the CCD, bad for the accu battery and the LCD. I don't know any accu or primary cell that likes to be frozen. Lead acid batteries can handle it (see any car), but it shortens their live. (And no, I don't now a digital camera with a lead acid battery.) IIRC, alkaline, NiCD and NiMH should not be cooled below 0C. The same applies for LCDs.
Like others already posted, google for amateur astronomers, they know how to cool CCDs.
Tux2000
I'd use refrigeration... (Score:2)
If the ceiling is too high, you could install a duct in front of it to force the air downwards. Only downfall is that this is an actual air conditioning system, which means you will need to have the condenser fan installed outside, as well as the reefer lines to said condenser
another method of spot cooling (Score:2, Informative)
Hack an old dorm fridge (Score:1)
Astronomy Cameras (Score:2, Informative)
Just go lookup "Richard Berry CCD camera kit" in google and you could probably find something.
Last Time (Score:1)
WHY DO YOU NEED TO COOL THE CAMERA?