Thin Client Solutions For Libraries? 502
phatlipmojo writes "I'm a librarian in the process of opening a brand new small public library from the ground up (literally; we don't even have a building yet). The library director and I are considering our options for public computing terminals. Having experienced the frustration of dealing with Dell machines running Windows XP on a daily basis, we're trying to consider other options, and we've been talking about maybe using thin clients. Have any of you used or worked in a library (or similar environment) that uses thin client stations for public computing? What are your impressions? What are the perks and what are the drawbacks?"
"I'm hoping that using thin clients could save us daily time troubleshooting bluescreens^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H computer glitches, allow us a greater degree of uniformity on the public terminals, save us the trouble and expense of putting Anti-virus software, Fortres, and Deep Freeze (or other such utilities) on each machine, and make our machines more difficult for black hat types to mess up on purpose. I'm also hoping we'll be able to offer web access (IE and Mozilla, hopefully. IE at a minimum), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. And have floppy drives. Plus, it would really comfort me not to pump several hundred dollars per machine into a monopolist's coffers for an OS we're just going to debilitate anyway.We're in the odd (for a public library) position of money not really being a significant factor in the decision. So, for those thin-client-lovers among you if cost weren't a factor, would you still prefer them to full-fledged PCs?
The other factor here is the tech skills required, because our IT department is me. As librarians go, I'm pretty tech-savvy, but as Slashdotters go, I'm pretty much a luser. So homebrew Linux solutions are really out (plus, vendor support is important for selling ideas like this to the municipal government), but systems requiring basic-to-intermediate networking and troubleshooting skills are in, and I'm not afraid of non-Windows OSes."
Not a luser! (Score:5, Insightful)
Mmmmm. That word 'luser'. I don't think it means what you think it means....
You're a public librarian. Thank god for you and your kind.
hanzie.linux.. (Score:5, Insightful)
But as I have some personal experience with this here's my post
Back in the day when I was studying at university a friend and I both worked a few hours a week in the uni library. They had the same problems you're describing, only on win95 then..
The computers available could be used to surf and telnet to the library system to search books.
Almost every week windows had to be re-installed,
usually because someone messed up some settings, or there was a virus on it,
In the end we just installed linux. The login screen clearly said 'log in as 'guest' with password 'guest' and would then boot X with 2 nice large icons: Netscape and a telnet window to the library catalog. Nothing else was possible.
For the next 6 months the year lasted, we didn't have to do any maintenance anymore on these systems..
(bonus for us: we used it as email server too to get personal email out of the uni-system and having a box to telnet from was nice to.. hmm.. experiment a bit)
I Assume You Are Intending To Use an ILS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also go here [oss4lib.org] for the Open Source For Libraries Web site which has links to numerous open source library systems and tools. Including a story on how Arizona State University West moved entirely to Linux as the underlying OS for their library.
Between those two sources, you should find plenty to check out.
How about a nice friendly Mac? (Score:2, Insightful)
If you've attended the Apple stores they have Macs sitting around for people to interact with and even though a good deal of the interaction is unsupervised, nothing destructive happens with the box and life is relatively good.
Re:Perhaps use Internet Cafe Software (Score:5, Insightful)
there might even be one on sourceforge
OpenKiosk [sourceforge.net]
Quotes from the webpage:
"OpenKiosk is an open-source multi-platform kiosk system designed for use in libraries,
"With this delivery, OpenKiosk 1.0 is finally drawing to its completion..."
eMacs (Score:5, Insightful)
The design, with all the vents at the back, makes it hard for kids to try dropping paperclips and so on inside.
The only thing missing is the floppy drive, and I'd question whether that really is "missing". There are several workrounds if someone really needs floppy access.
SunRays are a good idea in more controlled environments but, at the end of the day, you still need physical terminals for the users. Terminals designed for use in uncontrolled environments tend to be expensive and not particularly state of the art as far as display type goes. I still think that most people still underestimate how well the eMac is designed for its environment.
requirements are contradictory and a bit confusing (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm also hoping we'll be able to offer web access (IE and Mozilla, hopefully. IE at a minimum), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint....
it would really comfort me not to pump several hundred dollars per machine into a monopolist's coffers for an OS we're just going to debilitate anyway
So you don't want Windows, but you want IE, Word, Excel and Powerpoint? I think MacOS has the office programs, but unless you want to run the ancient IE5, you're SOL.
I'd personally try to push you away from supporting a lot of apps outside of just plain-jane internet access. Supporting the apps is going to be a pain in the ass, and people are going to be taking up lots of time writing term papers, etc when others just want to check their email.
I really think you need to step back and look at what you really _need_ the system to do. From the details you've provided it doesn't seem like you really have a good grasp about what you want to provide, what your maintenance requirements are, etc.
Thin client is a nice buzz-word, but it doesn't have a huge amount of meaning. Does each client have a HD, or only minimal boot-roms? What about if the central server goes down, any thin-client won't be able to restart.
Hire someone that actually can help you with these problems and analyze the requirements, do research, etc. Slashdot can provide you with very raw information, but it really sounds like you need someone with more tech experience to analyze your situation.
Re:How about a nice friendly Mac? (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's assume the poster is serious about their requirements. If you're just going to ignore hard customer specifications like "must run IE" then feel free to post but it will be ignored by the people actually doing the work (ie, them).
If you read the whole post it seems the only two systems that'd do what (s)he needs are:
1) Windows Terminal Services
2) Some form of Linux/LTSP with a copy of Wine/CrossOver Office Server edition to run IE and MS Office. CodeWeavers sell a version of Wine specifically kitted out to run thin clients, because it's massively more efficient than Citrix/RDP-type solutions.
It rules out anything based on "pure" open source because of the IE/MSOffice requirement, probably anything Linux based is ruled out on the grounds of staff availability and familiarity, and I'm afraid Mac is definitely ruled out. Sorry.
It rules out anything (Score:2, Insightful)
If a standards compliant browser (Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE for mac, IE for Windows (almost)) can't browse your web pages, you have a problem with the web pages, not with the browser.
Perhaps it's time to step back and question those assumptions, after all, they're not even at the building/buying stage. Choosing IE for Windows is basically choosing windows, which as you point out, makes the question almost a non-question - they may as well go back to continual problems trying to keep the systems up, up to date and hardened, which is precisely what the poster wanted to avoid.
Re:Sun Rays (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:requirements are contradictory and a bit confus (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not a luser! (Score:5, Insightful)
Looks like we could do with losing the stereotypes about librarians as well as the stereotypes about CS students.
Re:XP embedded. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Not a luser! (Score:5, Insightful)
Wouldn't the use of "he" be just as presumptuous? The English language has flaws, and this is one of them. Since English has no third-person-singular gender-unspecific pronouns, speakers and writers of the english language have only six choices when referring to somebody whose gender isn't known:
Re:Not a luser! (Score:3, Insightful)
(By the way, why is guessing that the librarian in question is a woman right? You could argue that the librarian in question is also a technically-capable Slashdot reader, and that stacks the odds in favour of that person being a man rather than a woman.)
When you use "she" you're giving readers little doubt that you're referring specifically to a woman. But when you use "he" readers are more likely to appreciate that you mean "he or she".
To give an example, if I were to say "mankind has reached for the stars", you know that I'm referring to men and women. But if I was to say "womankind has reached for the stars" then that's a totally different meaning.
Yes, this is a grey area of language. Yes, it's all about personal interpretation and preferences. But momentum is on the side of "he", in this case and in general.