Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Hardware Hacking

UPS Hacking in Hurricane Season? 62

Posted by Cliff from the changes-for-extra-survivability dept.
kengreenebaum asks: "Perhaps not the most exciting of topic; however it is storm season and I have a couple of UPS's that need new batteries. What is the best source for high quality, long lived replacement batteries for these devices? I assume it takes a special chemistry to survive continuous trickle charging and an occasional deep cycle. Has anybody tried connecting larger capacity batteries external to the UPS enclosure to attempt longer run times? (Obviously the load capacity is based on the inverter itself and can't easily be modified) Also what software do you use for monitoring and automatic shutdown on Linux? I have collected quite a few APC and Belkin UPS's 700VA or smaller as they go on rebate/sale."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

UPS Hacking in Hurricane Season? More

UPS Hacking in Hurricane Season?

Comments Filter:

  • UPS' Contain Standard Gel / Sealed Batteries (Score:5, Informative)

    by nuxx ( 10153 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @09:34PM (#10134621) Homepage
    Just FYI, if you have a UPS with replacable batteries (not the crap throw-away Energizer or whatever brand ones) it's very likely that the battery inside is a gel-type sealed lead acid battery. Just take the battery out and look at the markings on them. Odds are good that you'll be able to find a replacement either on eBay or any of the cheap battery suppliers online.

    Myself and a number of friends of mine have acquired SmartUPS' (typically >1400) for free, simply because they are 'broken', and a battery replacement costing around US$50 or so makes them like new. Oh, and a good SmartUPS is really, really nice compared to a standard passive device.
    • Could you attatch a car battery to the same UPS? I know they have 6 volt, for motorcycles or something. But wouldn't those have a lot longer lifespan (err, die faster but be able to produce power for longer) and be a lot better choice by sacrificing portability, safety and environmental friendlyness? (The true 'hack' definition)

      • Re:UPS' Contain Standard Gel / Sealed Batteries (Score:5, Interesting)

        by nuxx ( 10153 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @09:44PM (#10134705) Homepage
        Here's the thing... I *think* you could, but unless you properly take into account the amperage of the batteries and such, you could risk damage to the circuitry which handles the switching. And that would be bad...

        That reminds me of how once when working retail, this guy came in and asked me how many deep cycle batteries he could chain off an APC BackUPS. He wanted literally racks and racks of them, so that he could handle his whole house. All while having things switched by that little BackUPS...

        I'm not sure if you've ever been in a server room, but the UPS' to handle switching massive loads like this tend to be multiple-rack-sized, having contacts that look more like copper paperback books jutting out of the panel.
        • ..., you could risk damage to the circuitry which handles the switching...

          I'll weigh in with the voice of experience here. :)
          Whether or not the switching ciruit fries depends on how much load you put on it. If you don't exceed the rated max capacity of the UPS it will be okay.
          Unfortunately that's not enough to get you out of the woods because the first time the batteries discharge significantly the charging circuit will fry instead.
          All that in mind, you might be able to get away with increasi
          • How about putting a trickle charger on the "auxilary" car battery? You can get one at any auto parts store, or maybe even Target. Then the UPS isn't charging the battery, just discharging it through its inverter. If this is indeed for a temporary fix through hurricane season, you could use auto jumper cables to connect the UPS's battery to the car battery. You'd have to take the UPS out of its case to expose the battery terminals, so you'd expose all the circuits. Keep the cat away, but it should work.
            • How about putting a trickle charger on the "auxilary" car battery?

              I'm not sure how the best way would be to implement that without causing conflict (ground loops, overvoltage etc) between the two systems but yeah, that might work.
              • diodes.

                I think im about to try this on an apc smartups 750 thats behaving badly with 50%+ loads anyway. The little bits of electron pusher knowledge i cling to in a ritualistic, voodoo like sense lead me to beleive it'll work. If it doesnt put "he was wrong" on a tombstone over the smoking crater.

        • how many deep cycle batteries he could chain off an APC BackUPS

          Only slightly above the "toy" UPSes, APC has models that let you chain external battery units (no need to hack the hardware, which probably makes assumptions about the supported battery technology and configuration, thus limiting your options on battery choice). The last one I used had to be told through its software on the server how many external batteries it had, but then handled everything thereafter. Perhaps the original poster's units

      • Get a deep cycle/marine battery. They are designed to survive being totally discharged, something a car battery doesn't handle very well. Just get a 25-30 USD batter charger to charge it and it will work great.

        The connection to the UPS will be best described by someone who has done it before.

      • Re:UPS' Contain Standard Gel / Sealed Batteries (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Yes you can.

        If you get the kind of UPS that has 2 6 volt sealed lead-acid batteries in series, then you can replace it with an ordinary car battery.

        Some things to keep in mind:

        1) put the car battery in a big plastic container so it doesn't leak and ruin the floor

        2) the wires have to be very thick. If you wire it up with lamp cord or less, the insulation will catch fire when the power goes out and the battery is trying to dump all that juice out.

        3) More battery in the same UPS doesn't increase the numb
        • whoever moderated this parent up up......

          put the car battery in a big plastic container so it doesn't leak and ruin the floor
          Make sure tis is a ventilated space. Car batteries are made to run in ventilated spaces...a and that is for a reason.

          the wires have to be very thick. If you wire it up with lamp cord or less, the insulation will catch fire when the power goes out and the battery is trying to dump all that juice out.
          If you ever tried this (sounds like it ) then you might not know what you are do

    • Re:UPS' Contain Standard Gel / Sealed Batteries (Score:4, Informative)

      by caseih ( 160668 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:14PM (#10134900)
      The cheapest place I've ever seen to buy new batteries for just about anything, including UPS, is at: http://www.gotbatteries.com [gotbatteries.com]

      They also have volume discounts. We were able to replace all 64 batteries in our APC UPS unit for around 9 dollars a piece. This is a fraction of the cost APC would have charged. At the time they didn't have the 7 Amp batteries we needed, so we got 8 Amp ones instead (I think that's what it was). Anyway, great deal. Brandname batteries too.

  • Not sure if entire relavent (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Student_Tech ( 66719 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @09:38PM (#10134651) Journal
    For the batteries, if it is maintaining the voltage at a "float voltage" the batteries can be held nearly indefintly without a discharge or worry of overcharging. Lead acids have a float voltage of about 2.35 volts/cel (based on some quick googling). They will still die after some time.
    But I don't know what technology, size, or how the UPSes actually using the batteries.
    If I was DIY a UPS, I would have about 10 12Volt batteries (no transformers...), drive them off a full-wave rectifier, filter the power from the rectifier a bit, and then invert the power to make it back to AC and use my equipment off that. Advantage, I am always off the batteries, disadvantage, I have no monitoring ability and if I was to set the incoming voltage to the float voltage, it will probably take a while to charge.

  • APCUPSD (Score:4, Informative)

    by spikestabber ( 644578 ) <[ten.sekyps] [ta] [ekips]> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @09:41PM (#10134679) Homepage
    If your using an APC ups, apcupsd is by far the best one to use. www2.apcupsd.com/
  • They wont last near as long as a nice big marine deep cycle battery. (if your UPS runs on 24 volts, 2 will do nicely) Since obviously these batteries are designed for deep cycles.
    • You want Valve-Regulated Sealed Lead-Acid, Absorbed Glass Mat (VRLA/AGM) batteries. Personally, I use two of these babies [ibsa.com] on my BackUPS. I can run my computer for three days on an outage. And during Hurricane season, a three-day outage is not unheard-of.

  • Trade it in (Score:4, Informative)

    by bluGill ( 862 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:00PM (#10134825)

    APC has a nice trade in program, take ANY UPS, send it in, and get a nice discount on a new one. Check their website out for details. (I'm sure their comptition has something too)

    Now I'm sure you are still paying more than just batteries. However you get a system that is designed to work, with electronics that are not used and have no seen some unknown number of surges. You don't take a chance that the charger is broken (which may or may not break the batteries)

    If you really must go cheap, inverters are getting really cheap, connect a few batteries to an inverter with a standard battery charger. You don't get monitoring, but you know when the lights go out, plus you have a lot more runtime. For extra points you can make your charger a solar system and run your computers off the grid. (Note, to get a system that doesn't waste a lot of energy you must to some research, but this theory will work)

  • Battery info (Score:4, Informative)

    by belg4mit ( 152620 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:02PM (#10134836) Homepage
    Actually, if the UPs is worth a dam the backups aren't on a trickle charge; it should be periodically testing and charging as necessary.
    Deep cycling is bad for any battery, but excercising them extends their life. I recently came across an interesting resource when doing
    my own research on batteries

    http://www.buchmann.ca/default.asp

  • apcupsd (Score:4, Informative)

    by AllMightyPaul ( 553038 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:06PM (#10134860)
    I like http://www.apcupsd.org to handle my APC UPS on Linux. It works very well, and also supports some Belkin UPSes.

  • Experienced advice (Score:4, Informative)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:08PM (#10134875) Homepage Journal
    1. Small UPSs typically use sealed immobilized-electrolyte lead acid batteries, more commonly referred to as gel-cells. They aren't special at all, they are quite common.

    2. I usually buy gel-cells cheaply at hamfests. They last quite a long time, and used ones are often a good buy. They're heavy, and while you can buy them mailorder, shipping will add up. Better to find a local supplier if you can. Lots of places sell them online though, just google (or froogle) for "gel-cells".

    3. Most small UPSs have a CPU that is programmed with the approximate capacity of it's battery. Using grossly different sized batteries will likely cause the UPS to freak out, or at least not use the batteries' full capacity. Don't connect deep cycle marine batteries to your UPS's guts, it won't work right. Heck, I once had a UPS go south just because I let it sit with no battery for 6 months and the CPU lost its memory.

    4. You need to be careful, because the term UPS can refer to a pussy office UPS thats basicly a bloated power strip, or it can refer to a building full of batteries capable of running a large factory for an hour. UPS components come in all shapes and sizes. A UPS is four things, and inverter, a battery charger, a battery, and an automatic switch. You can build and or buy some or all of those components separately if you wish. Look at places that sell solar power and alternative energy systems for people off the grid. All kinds of beafy power equipment.

    Happy hacking!

    • Re:Experienced advice (Score:3, Interesting)

      by fm6 ( 162816 )

      ...the term UPS can refer to a pussy office UPS thats basicly a bloated power strip, or it can refer to a building full of batteries capable of running a large factory for an hour.

      At the server farm where I work, it refers to a room full of lead-acid batteries that are capable (so management claims) of powering all 10,000 systems for 14 hours, plus a diesel generator. In fact, server farms are a major air quality problem in Silicon Valley, 'cause whenever there's a brown- or blackout, dozens of them fire

      • Our generator uses Natural Gas, much cleaner.
        • Absolutely. Does you company have an environmental conscience? Or are you just located in a place with sane air quality laws?
          • The company no, not really; The Employees very much so. Air quality laws are pretty good, and maybe tightened soon because we have a majority of diesel cars.
            • So the question is, who made the decision to use natural gas instead of diesel? Yes, it's cleaner -- but most companies don't spend extra money on stuff like this unless somebody makes them.
              • Many places use natural gas because it is zero maintenance. Natural gas doesn't need to be checked every couple years like offroad diesel, it doesn't need to be trucked in during an extended power outage, etc. And unless you live in an earthquake zone the chances of it being disrupted are nill. Another cool generator type I saw at a large financial institution in California was a natural gas powered turbine, basically it was a smaller version of a natural gas power plant.
                • And unless you live in an earthquake zone the chances of it being disrupted are nill.
                  Which is, I guess, why my company doesn't use one -- right on the San Andreas Fault. And come to think of it, attempts to supplement California's energy supply with gas-fired power plants always bring out the NIMBYs. Personally, I'd rather risk the odd explosion than breathe in all that air pollution. But what do I know?
          • Natural Gas is a lot cheaper the Petro.
            • So why do most emergency generators use diesel? The lovely smell?
              • Because its easy to work with and requires no extra work when the generator is installed. Some gas companies charge extra for the larger pipes and flow rates need for a large generator and some cities make it more difficult to get a permit if you use natural gas.

                • Which boils down to, "it costs more". What I said.
                  • No, the first time the word cost appears in this thread is in the parent to this post ;->

                    It's not that it costs more in every instance and when it does it is just in the install phase that it does. Quite a lot of people don't know that they can get NG generators for an inexpensive price.

              • Diesel is more stable than gasoline so long term storage is a lot less of a problem (especially special grades of offroad diesel).
              • Diesel generators are a lot more cost efficient when you get into large KW ones. To achieve the same type of KW rating with Natural Gas, you tend to need a turbine generator, which uses a lot more fuel then a diesel gen.

    • 3. Most small UPSs have a CPU that is programmed with the approximate capacity of it's battery. Using grossly different sized batteries will likely cause the UPS to freak out, or at least not use the batteries' full capacity. Don't connect deep cycle marine batteries to your UPS's guts, it won't work right. Heck, I once had a UPS go south just because I let it sit with no battery for 6 months and the CPU lost its memory.

      I think there's a way around this, at least on APC UPSes. If the CPU "forgets" the ba

  • Batteries Plus (Score:4, Informative)

    by Matt Perry ( 793115 ) <perry.matt54@ya[ ].com ['hoo' in gap]> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:30PM (#10135003)
    I've used Batteries Plus [batteriesplus.com] to replace the batteries in my UPSs. They have the correct batteries for different types of UPSs and have been pretty reasonable on prices. They're a franchise so they're all over the US.

  • Link to DIY-UPS instructions, general info (Score:5, Informative)

    by pro-mpd ( 412123 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:32PM (#10135016) Homepage
    http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm

    For those familiar with Dan, you know that it's bound to be interesting. What he does is somewhat of the solution described in some comments.... battery charger, batteries, inverter. He also talks about the merits and pitfalls of different batteries in UPS systems.

  • Generic battery info (Score:3, Informative)

    by Fallon ( 33975 ) <[moc.liamG] [ta] [leoN.niveD]> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @10:40PM (#10135047) Homepage Journal
    On average a battery will last around 2-3 years, tops.

    The primary cause to battery failure is sulfitization (sp?) where sulfer crystals form on the battery plates and block the normal battery chemical reactions. This occurs MUCH faster when the battery is not 100% charged. The best thing you can do for any battery is keep it on a trickle charger, which most if not all UPS's do.

    If you rarely loose power, normal batteries might be a cheaper choice for similar results. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates for more durability, and are less likely to have the plates damaged when heavily drained. They sacrafice capacity and avalable amprage for this extra durability. Standard automotive batteries are designed to pretty much never get drawn below 70% capacity.

    Unless your into some serious hardware hacking though, I'd stick with something nearly the same as the UPS is speced for.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @12:42AM (#10135642)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Lead-acid batteries make hydrogen as they charge. In normal environments this is not a problem, but in the places that UPSs are likely to hide (closets, racks, mechanical rooms, under the raised floor...), there may be enough of an air restriction to cause a buildup.

    It's kind of ugly when catches fire...
  • I've taken a rather pragmatic approach to the whole UPS situation. The power in my house and at my company is usually pretty stable, except for an occasional flicker once in a while, usually during a thunderstorm. My philosophy is to use the UPSs only long enough to handle a flicker or to keep the systems up long enough to do a shutdown. The power only goes out for more than 30 seconds no more than once a year or so. I don't really feel the need to spend much (any) money to handle something that only h

    • Re:UPS on the cheap (Score:3, Interesting)

      by stvangel ( 638594 )
      Okay, I have no idea how that got submitted. Must have been a UPS glitch. :)

      What I was saying was, I use "broken" UPS with used batteries that I can get for next to nothing. Old car batteries have worked well for me. I charge them up fully with a normal car battery charger before I hook them up to the UPS guts. Even if they can't provide the surge to start a car anymore, they can still usually provide enough power to run the computer through a few-second glitch and a minute or two shutdown. Even if

  • Replacing UPS batteries (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There are three kinds of lead-acid battery cells:
    1. Flooded. This is the standard lead-plates-in-sulfuric-acid design used in car batteries. These must be kept upright. Car starting batteries use a spongy electrode design for large surface area (and thus high current capacity), but deep discharging collapses the spongy structure. Deep-cycle batteries use more solid plates that can stand more cycles of surface recrystalization.
    2. Gel cells. The electrolyte is gelled to keep it in place even if the cell is
  • If you're running older small UPSes, you're probably running more that one machine as well. To allow networked machines to get UPS status info and shutdown when the going gets rough, look at NUT [networkupstools.org].

    Can be a chore to setup, but works with a variety of equipment and some good info there as well.

  • I have replaced several batteries in a range of APC UPSs. Since batteries tend to be heavy, it's usually cheapest to go to the local electronic supply store. (we aren't talking Radio Shack)

    One caveat, newer consumer APCs have been using a special connector. With those you may have no choice but to get them from APC.

    If you want to make your batteries last longer, both in runtime and lifetime, don't put more than 1/2 the rated load on them. It can make the difference whether you get one year or three years
  • http://www.homepower.com/ [homepower.com] Covers various forms of renewable energy, mainly for the home with a few businesses. The current issue is always freely downloadable in PDF format, if you register(free). http://www.homepower.com/files/midnight.pdf [homepower.com] Is an article on a home sized UPS you can build yourself.

Slashdot Top Deals

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

Close