Printers - Are In-Cartridge Printheads Better? 91
koelpien asks: "I am a tightwad geek who likes to print photos without spending lots of money on OEM ink cartridges. Both Epson and HP have let me down; HP doesn't have a lot of third party cartridges available, and refilling the OEM's is a pain, especially resetting the ink level counter. Epson is just as bad, with cheap low-cost cartridges available, yet using them will often clog the heads, needing multiple ink-depleting cleaning cycles to restore proper flow. I am on the market for a new printer, and want to know which technology most Slashdot users happy with, in relation to printer brand and the use of third-party or refillable inks. Is one technology superior to the others, or are printers mostly the same?"
Printer Model? (Score:3, Informative)
Canon (Score:5, Informative)
You could just get a color laser. I like the Xerox Phaser 8400. Very cool.
Re:Tightwads ought to know (Score:3, Informative)
For me, it's canon (Score:2, Informative)
The problem with my old Epson printer was, that the ink dried out inside the printhead, changing the device from printer to garbage.
Due to the fact, that it's not possible to change the printhead (yourself) for epson printers and they are driven by piezo-elements - this means that, if the ink dries in the printhead, the printer is wrecked. (note: I didn't use the printer often...)
After that I went through some reviews at 'Tom`s Hardware' and bought myself a Canon 560i.
For my surprise
What you want more ?
Re:In-cartridge print heads for me (Score:4, Informative)
Similar experience here. The head "burned out" in my Canon BJC printer. Cost of replacement R600 (~ $92); cost of newer, better printer R450 (~ $70).
If you can remove the print head from the printer you can often recover it by soaking in warm water (just the end bit, really) and then allow it to dry thoroughly. Doesn't work with burned out heads unfortunately.
In my experience, cartridges without a head are cheaper, but your printer will not last as long. Personal opinion, if you don't need color, get a laser.
Re:Canon (Score:3, Informative)
If you're looking for a color laser for home use, consider a solid inkjet instead. They don't have the mechanical complexity of lasers, their output quality is on par with most lasers, and their printouts won't run when the paper gets damp. The ink, however, can be about as expensive.
If you only need black text and grayscale graphics, get a good solid laser printer; the toner cartridges in most laser printers last for years. I know people who have never replaced their toner cartridges since buying their laser printers in the late-90s (although eventually the imaging drum dies even if there's still toner left). Cartridges may run more than $100, but will usually last for thousands of pages. Remanufactured cartridges are usually much less expensive, are readily available, are about as good as brand new carts. If you get a black-only laser printer, consider whether the imaging drum is integrated with the cartridge. If it's not, find out how much it costs to replace and compare the costs and capacities of cartridges with printers that do use an imaging drum integrated with the cartridge. The advantage of an integrated drum is that you'll replace it every time you replace the cartridge, so it'll always be fresh, but you may pay slightly more for the catridges. On the other hand, some low end printers may use expensive cartridges without an integrated drum so you may end up spending more per page to keep them fed. Separate imaging drums can be expensive and have a finite life. You're probably better off to get a printer with a higher up front cost and lower maintenance needs than a printer with lots of silly expensive pieces to replace.
The Canon inkjet printers seem like alright devices, but I've not used them extensively. They may, however, suffer the same issues as the person posting the original question wished to avoid. BTW, the Canons typically use an ink tank separate from the print head.
My solution is to buy $40 to $60 Epsons, which come with two brand new cartridges (each of which would alone cost $25), then buy the cheapest off-brand ink I can find (usually $4 to $7 per cartridge), and throw the printer out as soon as it has any hint of trouble. This is a whole lot cheaper than any other strategy I've come up with, and the Epsons produce excellent quality color printouts when printing on good paper. Even with the cheap ink I haven't had very serious clogging problems, and even if I do have to sometimes run three cleaning cycles after the printer has been sitting for a couple weeks, that's still only a few cents worth of ink. Finally, I haven't had to replace my $60 Epson yet...
You mileage may vary.
Oh, BTW, I use Dealink.com [dealink.com] to locate dirt cheap ink. NOTE: I'm not affiliated with dealink.com in any way, and if anyone would care to post a better resource for locating dirt cheap ink, I'd probably use it too.
Re:Printer Model? (Score:3, Informative)
I am also pleased by the progress they have made on the durability of the inks. This is a great concern, and AFAIK, Epson rules on that side. I have printouts made by a Stylus Photo 870 that were exposed in my living room for over 3 years now, and the colors are still as sharp and balanced as the first day (at least to my eyes). Much better than some Canon I know
Anyways, printing photos on this kind of printer is more expensive than going to the lab anyways, although I don't know about large printouts...
Color printing is a serious hassle... (Score:5, Informative)
26 refills, $17. Color printing is a serious hassle. After having many problems, we spent a lot of time researching it. We bought a Canon S820 and a Canon S520, and we have had good luck refilling the cartridges using a kit from IMS [ims-ink.com], which we bought at a Costco store. The refill kit is NOT available on the Costco web site. Each kit allows something like 26 refills, and the kits cost $17 at the Costco store. The second time you do a refill, it is extremely easy. We inspected photos and font characters under a magnifying glass and were not able to see a difference between the hugely expensive Canon ink and the refill ink. There has been no difference in fading.
The S820 has six separate cartridges. It is very slow, but photos are much nicer. The S520 has 4 cartridges. It's faster, and good for printing labels, for example. We have had no problems with print heads, which are separate from the tanks. Both use the same refill kit, which comes with 6 ink colors.
Buy low. Then buy low again. Our experience is that it is far better to pay $50 for a printer, and replace it often with a new $50 printer, than to pay a lot and buy a "good one". The technology is changing so fast that the $50 printer of a few months from now will be better than the $400 printer sold now.
HP: Ugh. In the past we have bought several HP color printers, and been badly burned. HP is expensive, and we have encountered many quirks. (Since Carly Fiorino took over HP, we see a lot of HP printer software seriously failing, right out of the box. Can someone with little technical experience lead a technically oriented company? It's like a horse that can do math. It appears to be possible, until you realize that it is just a series of tricks.)
Canon: Canon is an extremely adversarial company, in our experience, but less adversarial than the other printer manufacturers, at present.
Canon does product churning, and apparently deliberate product confusion. Before, all the companies sold 6 tank printers as "photo printers". Now Canon is selling 4 or 5 tank printers as photo printers. The Canon USA web site [canon.com] has liberal use of web developer resume-building technologies like Flash and Javascript that tend to defeat use of Mozilla's tabs, and provide for menu choice surprises. There are extremely long URIs which are difficult to email.
The Canon i860 [canon.com] is not related to the S820. Note that the web page says, "... it provides true 4 color photo printing...". One day a few months ago, the InkJet printer companies switched from "true 6 color photo printing" to the present "true 4 color photo printing". I don't know their motivation, but the 6 color printers print MUCH nicer photos, in our experience, with much better shadow detail. Tech company marketing departments take extreme advantage of any ignorance they find in customers.
Testing in the store. At the time, Fry's was doing its insane prices thing with Canon printers. It was possible to buy "refurbished" Canon printers for $30 and $50, which is what ours cost. They weren't really refurbished, it seemed. We tested them in the store and found that 1/3 taken from sealed boxes did not work. The third time we tried opening boxes in the store and testing printers with a laptop, we were told not to do it. The only alternative was to take printers back to the office and find that some of them didn't work. I can understand Fry's position; I can understand mine, too. We bought all the printers that we opened that worked.
Rebates: Be really careful with Fry's rebates; often we have had experiences where they use some trick. We bought Netgear products from Fry's with rebates. All of the rebate receipts were v
Re:Canon (Score:2, Informative)
HP and Lexmark have print heads included in the ink cartridges. This means you always have a fresh print head, but it also means you pay more. And Lexmark and HP are the two worst companies about ink technology and lockouts.
Epson has the print heads in the printer itself, but they can only be replaced by Epson techs and cost quite a bit.
Canon printers are a little cheaper than the others, with cheaper ink as well, and the print heads, though in the printer, should be user replaceable AND relatively affordable. Now, though nice, Canon inkjet printers tend to be a little less cutting edge than the competition, but they're still excellent all around and should prove to be the most affordable solution.