Why Are There No Sports MMO Games? 176
Brian P. writes "With the online gaming market growing at a remarkable rate and new games being announced frequently, why have developers and publishers shied away from creating an MMO sports game? Online fantasy leagues are bigger than ever and online sports games such as Madden '05 are huge franchises. It seems to me that a logical evolution of this trend would be a gaming experience that lets a player start out as a street-baller and work their way up to virtual super-athlete status. The possibilities are endless...but obviously there's something seriously wrong with the concept because all we keep getting are tiresome sword and sorcery games and online adaptations of megafranchises such as Star Wars."
Also... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Also... (Score:4, Insightful)
BOOOOOOOOOORING!!!
I'm serious. Actually, first baseman is a bad example. Who is going to play right field? Or blocker in football?
Everybody wants to be the star. Since we're talking about computer games, everybody should be the star. MMORPGs have enough trouble with this. Sports would be even worse.
Re:Also... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Also... (Score:2)
Re:Also... (Score:2)
As long as you have a critical role to play, you're going to be entertained. That said, it's pretty rare that when you stumble towards a base in the middle of nowhere, you'll find anyone there. Noone's interested in guard duty when the odds of an at
Re:Also... (Score:3, Insightful)
Quake II, Half Life, Unreal, Unreal tournament etc. etc.
But, for some reason, you seem to mean 'stick and ball team games'.
Why? This isn't real life! You simply don't have to be bored like that online. You can have fun! :-)
Re:Also... (Score:2)
And in those game modes teamwork is best but not critical, compared to a team sport like football or hockey.
Re:Also... (Score:2)
I find that if you are just playing ad-hoc, then yes, teamwork isn't necessary; although having the same number of good players in each team is critical.
However, if you are a member of a clan, a *team* will nearly always win.
Re:Also... (Score:2)
I remember when I was a kid, when we had to divide a big group into two teams, the player choosers would often debate on who should get the last not-so-good kids on their team.
You can imagine how those kids felt like.
Where's the other MMORPG's? (Score:2)
How about a Western based MMORPG? Gunfights, bank and train robbers, miner 49ers, saloons, gambling, Deadwood....on and on and on....
Just wondering. Probably not much call for it.
Re:Where's the other MMORPG's? (Score:2)
The fact that all the western-themed games I know of sucked terribly doesn't factor that greatly into the equation, of course, since non-MMO games don't have to be good to be successful, they just have to get lots of peopl
Re:Where's the other MMORPG's? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually there is one in development. Fronteir 1859 [frontier1859.com] is a western based MMORPG which is also going to feature PvP that is policed by the players. It should be interesting.
Re:Where's the other MMORPG's? (Score:2)
Imagine, if you will, some sort of showdown 'mini-game' (I hate to use that phrase here, because it implies something a little lame to hardcore gamers), where you get better and better over time. Not just because you have the best equipment, etc., but because you (i.e., you as a person, not your in-game persona) are better at the game. You could even have some sort of reputation rank that is attached to your player, based on how many shoot-
Re:Also... (Score:3, Interesting)
16vs16.
it's just that computer games allow simulated settings you wouldn't be able to have in a 'real' sport.
(also, here's an answer: traditional sports would require people to stay in the game from start to end and a single bad player could ruin the fun for everyone. a bit hard to have the occasional fun in a game like that.)
Re:Also... (Score:4, Interesting)
Quick refernce: Each player in SG can have 48 units, which they can take into battle in gruops of 6 (up to 12, depending on their stats). The most common thing for players to do is to take six units of the same type into battle and use them as a single squad.
The thing is, in any given map, there are usually three to five control points that must be held, and a number of strategically useful postions to occupy (cliffs, choke points, cover, etc). Its great when you get mostly experienced players together who will coordinate to win the battle.
However, 99% of the time what happens is everybody mass swarms one point of the map while ten people try to play commander and give bad, conflicting orders. Ideally, somebody finds Arbalests (artillery units) in grid A1, they say, "Arbs a1" and a couple people with fast air-to-ground units will rush in to kill them quickly.
Ideally, its an easy situation and any enemy arbalasts are doomed the minute they open fire. But what happens usually is somebody finds arbs in A1, says, "Arbs A1" and every last player on the map abandons the strategic points and mobs A2 where they discover that the arbs are on top of a cliff and you can't reach them by ground, thus falling directly into the arbs' line of fire and get wasted, leaving all the strategic points wide open for the enemy to take.
I don't know how many times playing that game, I've had my tanks set up in a nice spot, but getting annoyed by really weak air-to-ground units. Meanwhile, some strong air-to-air units are sitting by. I say,"Hey, little help here?" and if I'm lucky, they just say, "hey, sup dude?" and ignore what is basically a free kill for them.
Planetside (Score:2)
You can answer your own question by looking at reviews/critics of this game (seems to be an issue with team quality and griefers) or even trying it for yourself.
Re:Planetside (Score:2)
team competition! (Score:1)
Re:team competition! (Score:2)
Re:team competition! (Score:2)
Re:team competition! (Score:2)
I would have a b
I agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I agree (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people play video games to be the hero. There's a lot of positions on a football team that aren't exactly "exciting" but they're necessary. It's fun when playing with a bunch of friends outside. But to even approach that type of play in an online game you'd have to have a well-coordinated guild. You're not going to just log in have a fun pickup game with 20 people you don't know.
So to answer your question: Not nearly as cool as getting your friends together and going down to the park.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly if you're on the football team that consistently beats everyone else, you can share in the glory. Th
Re:I agree (Score:2)
Re:I agree (Score:2)
But in actuality, almost all classes a
Exactly (Score:2)
In online games unless you're playing with friends it only takes one person to mess up the whole game causing endless frustration.
Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
Plus, sports games tend to be more based on the skill of the actual player than the character, and someone who was good at basketball games would be mighty pissed if they got schooled by some noob who had just played a long time.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
There are huge amounts of problems with real-time sports games that require quick, split-second judgements. Most online games now rely on a peer-to-peer game-state. Two consoles, running the same game and occassionaly checking to make sure they're reading the same 'story'. If a divergence in the gameplay is detected, the game drops.
It would require a huge rewrite, running the game server side, and the console only running clients.
I don't see that happening soon.
Not in a MMOG (Score:2)
The delay involved makes creating a reflex-dependent MMO game difficult, but it's quite doable. Case in point: Planetside.
Planetside is a first-person shooter, but still all the important code runs on the server. When you fire a weapon, of course you see bullets go flying immedi
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Since there is no correlation to playing basketball in a video game, and on court, it should not surprise anyone if they get "schooled" in game, but are the schooler on the court.
As far as strategy goes, that's pretty much what games like EverQ
Re:Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
My basketball example was meant to highlight the "twitch" nature of most sports games. You can NOT simply translate the "hit a to attack, sit back and watch" technique in todays MMORPGs into a sports game. Implementing that correctly would be akin to implementing a MMOFPS correctly. And they tried that already with Planetside and we ended up with the oh so wonderful "cone of fire" (that was sarcasm btw).
Now to address strategy. In EQ and others, the strategy revolve
Because you need a TEAM (Score:2, Insightful)
To have something like this online, you'd have to arrange the group to meet online at certain times and I don't think there's enough people around to take this kind of game seriously enough to do that.
Re:Because you need a TEAM (Score:2, Insightful)
I would not want to play the same posistion for an entire game, especially an offensive lineman in football or
Neat concept but... (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Licenses - Players would generally like to think that they are playing for a major team (say Manchester United in football). They might not enjoy the experience of playing the game if they were playing street football. (One of the reasons why the FIFA 200x series is so popular despite having relatively shallow gameplay as compared to Pro Evolution Soccer).
2) How do you address the aspect of every player wanting to be a part of the action. Take the case of football again. Almost everyone, would like to be in control of the player who is dribbling the ball. Playing the game sort of loses it's excitement if one has to stand at the back of the defense.
Of course it's highly possible that there does exist an audience for whom the above two shortcomings don't really matter, and who would like the concept of starting out as a street player
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:2)
Not that "Football" (Score:2)
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:2)
Look at EQ support classes like enchanters and clerics. People enjoy playing them, there is also a sense of pride when you do a good job. They aren't the center of the action, but when they do their job well they
Re:Licenses (Score:2)
AND, if the players' unions got in on it, then the game players could pretend to be the actual players, and get to use their stats and names ("I get to be David Beckham!" "I get to be Ted Washington [nfl.com], and you're unconscious now!")
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, it's only point is to change slightly the gameplay of the game, but that's enough.
hey EverQuest, 1999 called, they want their graphics back
Everquest is a 1999 game, it graphics engine has been updated since then, you should be kind to your wife and buy her the expansion pack.
What do you do with your spare time that's so worthwhile? You're here interacting with no-one save for this store
youre in a skinner box, sports arent (Score:2)
With sports this kind of leveling just doesnt apply well. I'd rather just spawn a new player and play ball than spend 50 hours trying to reach level 16. Not to mention demographics. Sports fans are average people who dont have the time to spend on MUD-like games. Sure, there are some, but probably not enough to convince investors, bean counters, etc that you'll make a profit. Best to focus on
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Another aspect to consider is spectating. I don't like computerized sports games because I'm not into playing sports, I only like to watch them. I don't want to be a player; I want to be a fan in the stands and being treated to a performance by good players. And with voice communication, you could get vocal crowd participation. Have real people cheering you on instead of a cheer-track.
And perhaps you could get such MMO sports games going by first starting out with teams against a
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:2)
Brockian Ultra-Cricket. (Score:2)
We played Brockian Ultra Cricket at University, although we substituted "cricket bats, basecube bats, tennis racquets, skis, anything you can get a good swing with" with water filled balloons.
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:2)
I will be again this weekend.
Except that costs me money for every game I choose to attend, and I have to watch them on their schedule, whereas being a spectator on a game on-line I can get my entertainment without incurring additional charges for each game, and pick up watching a new game pretty much anytime I want.
And if there were computer vs. computer matches to set up, that's a new game on demand. And fan noise can even be programmed to affect the co
Re:Neat concept but... (Score:3, Informative)
note to self (Score:2, Insightful)
Bandwidth.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If each person could control a player on the team, you would have to have every client synched, otherwise the play experience would be terrible. It's no problem if one person happens to see you walk in a slightly different path than someone else does in an online RPG, but if I'm playing football, you better be running the same route that my fellow defender sees. These types of synchronization problems are what made simple two player online sports games take so long to perfect. A lot of games use some type of motion prediction algorithm to make these games seem smoother than they are, but this is unacceptable for sports games where accurate "reproductions" of athletic skill need to be created using joystick commands.
I hope someday this does become a reality though.
Re:Bandwidth.. (Score:2)
Re:Bandwidth.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I do, however, agree that this capability might not be too far of
Re:Bandwidth.. (Score:2)
Individualism (Score:5, Interesting)
Sports games revolve around one person controlling an entire team. In an MMO, assuming your character finds a team, they have to:
1) be online at the same time as the team
2) the designers need to come up with an entirely new way of playing sports games online from a 1 player=1 player perspective
3) the new way of playing has to be fun
This is not remotely easy and might not be possible at all. Otherwise, if you're just looking for seasons, doesn't X-Box Live have support for that?
Latency (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Latency (Score:2)
Why not? Balls travel way slower than most rockets, bullets, etc. The athletes also run slower that those wacko UT characters. And Sports have a very simple terrain to play, and only 23 (in soccer) things to update. 22 players and a ball.
The problem, I guess, is that it would take a lot to coordinate a eleven man team (for soccer again), to play at the same time. Yeah, va
Re:Latency (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Latency (Score:2)
That may be part of the problem: they do travel a lot slower, so you can't instantaneously know they hit their target. The ball's slowness makes it practically another player.
(There are sports-like games though already, such as UT's Bombing Run.)
Re:Latency (Score:2)
I dunno, but it works fine with Madden 2005 on my PS2.
Imperfect gameplay options.. (Score:2)
But say, a 10 or 12 player hockey game, or Football, or Soccer might work a bit better. I dont see Baseball working very well for this, since the team currently on the offensive will have alot of players riding a bench.
END COMMUNICATION
Two Links... (Score:4, Informative)
- and -
http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/ [justfuckinggoogleit.com]
b/c (Score:2)
Seriously, sports fans have ESPN, Fox Sports Net, Speed Channel and even Outdoor Life for some thrilling trail walking escapades.
The reason Madden, etc. are so popular is b/c they're just pick-up and play when you got your friends around and there isn't a game on that you care about.
I could be wrong.
Not a Sports Game Player but ... (Score:2)
Sports fans (Score:2)
Massive Multiplayer Online Game. (Score:5, Funny)
Actually this sounds very cool, I'll play the virtual peanuts vendor... I can annoy everyone within my sector by yelling "Peanuts get your peanuts..." or even better I can be the streaker in the game and try to avoid security while running across the field...
Who wants to be a pulling guard? (Score:2)
Some Problems and Ideas (Score:2)
-Technology lacking, not enough bandwith to handle the control needed.
-Boring, who wants to play right field?
-Pub jerks, Xfool goes offsides, 5 yards. Xfool goes offsides, 5 yards. Xfool goes offsides, 5 yars...
-Coordination, Can't run any plays without lots of practice.
There are some ways around the bandwith limitation. You could run the sports game like some of those old tecmo games. Where you have a menu and the game pauses when the ball gets
Re:Some Problems and Ideas (Score:2)
Debatable. Current - hell, even 1999 Half-Life - technology has proven that a single server can handle 20 or more players at a low enough latency to make realtime/fps/action gameplay possible. BF1942 servers regularly deal with playercounts two or three times that too. On the MMO side of things, Planetside seems to be able to handle large numbers of players in realtime fairly well.
True. No one
Bigger problem (Score:2)
You need to agree on a time for all the players to be there, anyone who has worked with ameture clans in say CS knows this is difficult.
You could create a persistent online character who's stats gradually increase but that isn't the same as say UO where you can enter and play any time.
Face is video games are an entertainment of convenience and will never be more than that.
Re:Bigger problem (Score:2)
Better question (Score:2)
Something like the Fallout series [gamespot.com] translated to an online game would be quite nice.
Half Life International Online Soccer (Score:2, Insightful)
I've played it a few times. It's not MMO in that there are no stats taken that persist over time, but it made for interesting gameplay. It took a while to get used to the controls and as others have posted everyone wants to be the star. It's tough to bunch random people on a team and actually hav
Why does no one search /. before submitting story? (Score:3, Informative)
Kleedrac
Wrong Audience (Score:2)
Why real sports games? (Score:3, Insightful)
I suggest that the easiest way to resolve the problem of the boring team positions within football, hockey and so on is to create a MMO sports game but replace the real-world games with fictional. For example, Speedball [bitmap-brothers.co.uk].
OK, obviously it would need to a different game, and certainly be in 3D, but this would seem to have the necessary attributes: the positions in the team are balanced; it's fast; tactical; requires team work; and by Dog is it fun ! :)
mod parent up (Score:2)
I'll play DT or OG or C (Score:3, Insightful)
But I'll play them.
Also, one way to deal with this is to perhaps force players to make an O-lineman or D-lineman along with another position, and not allow their 2nd player to progress to a level beyond their lineman.
That way, people will still "put in their time" in the trenches, and maybe even get hooked on it if it's made fun. But they will get to play the glory guy too.
Also, make lineman progression much easier, and make, say, quarterback progression the steepest by far.
For other sports, you can substitute in the positions of more/less glory accordingly.
Re:I'll play DT or OG or C (Score:2)
It can't be done (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It can't be done (Score:2)
There are glorious positions and non, (flag runner vs Basement D). There are organized matches, bench players, practices, strategy sessions, etc.
This could be done.
The biggest question is...why hasn't it? Why hasn't it even been tried on a smaller scale.
There are many sports mods (mostly soccer) for FPS, but I've never seen a commercial product for it. Check this out. http://www.pla
Come on people... (Score:3, Insightful)
Games are games because they typically contain elements that you can not normally be involved in such as killing or using magical powers.
Re:Come on people... (Score:2)
Then again, I wouldn't mind playing soccer, a sport which I can read tactically way beyond my ability in a virtual game with other players. When playing games with other sports fans we've often played soccer games together.
Wrong comparison (Score:2)
market demand (Score:2)
Maybe the reason is that these types of "tiresome" games are not showing any sign of maturation [netcom.com] and there really is no reason to try something that may or may not work. If the same formula keeps working and growing the consumer base, there isn't a reason to innovate yet.
Already done (Score:2)
XFL! (Score:2)
It's the social interaction of play that's missing (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the games I liked to play with friends was Hidden and Dangerous. This was partly because the atmosphere of the game definitely had an authentic WWII feel. Also, the added twist of the main characters being British soliders didn't hurt either (you played members of an elite SAS sqaud). However, the real gem was it's cooperative multiplayer game. The missions were in-depth (for it's day). It supported up to 4 players at once. Also, the
People want to be stars (Score:2)
Ultimate Baseball Online (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.ultimatebaseballonline.com/ (Warning: Very IE biased)
All the "technical limitations" mentioned elsewhere in this story aren't present - very rarely do you drop a catch from lag, or miss a pitch because of the same. Of course it helps if you're on broadband.
Re:Ultimate Baseball Online (Score:2)
+1 insightful from me! If I had +1 to give
Here's why. (Score:2)
If you have the time to sit around playing a video game working your way up from some no-name street baller all the way up the an uber-professional, then you have time to actually go out and play a real sport.
This seems obvious to me. Anyone that into sports that they'd want to work their way up to some sort of superstar over the course of months or years should just get away from the TV and play their favorite sport for real, with all the associated health benefits therein.
Yaz.
Speaking as a game designer (Score:3, Insightful)
There's two main reasons why there's no sports MMO games:
1) Teamwork. It takes team chemistry to really work together as a sports team. You'd have to get a regular team to work together. Playing on a "pick up" team isn't going to be as effective as playing on an organized team that has trained together. The online medium doesn't help.
2) Offline is better. You can go down to the park and play a real game of football if you want. You can't go down to the park and slay orcs and engage in PvP. Well, you can, but there's laws and drugs to stop people that try. Getting outside and actually playing the sport will likely never replace virtual sports. The reason why console sports do so well is because it's easy to pick up and you only need one person to play. This is the complete opposite of what an online sports "MMO" would be like.
Some thoughts from a professional.
Have fun,
Re:Speaking as a game designer (Score:2)
To certain degree, there is sports mmo games. (Score:2)
You try. (Score:2)
Good question (Score:2)
People will get together in clans and play as teams with their friends. They would probably rotate, so that everyone gets their fair go at being a star.
It doesn't have to be a real sport either. Five a side football (English football) would be better suited than some other real sports. But it could be a completely new game such as space football
Three words: away from keyboard (Score:2)
Taken into context (Score:2)
There is one, sort of...Hattrick (Score:2, Interesting)
They Exist.... (Score:2, Interesting)
The closest thing to MMO sports games right now would be online leagues based on popular sports management sims.
I'm in two online hockey leagues based off EHM, where the other 29 teams are controlled by a real person as well and on person acting as a "commissioner" ties it all in together. Full financial model, player development, trades and free agent signings, entry and waiver drafts...
Out of the Park (OOTP) baseball also has a plethora of online leagues in
Re:Well.. maybe because you can go outside... (Score:2)
Re:Because of Licensing and Trademarks (Score:2)