When Is There a Good Time to "Switch" to Apple? 323
AllNines asks: "With all the hype of MacWorld and the compelling keynote given by Steve Jobs about the upcoming Tiger and Spotlight, I am thinking about 'switching' (Linux user since '97) but I am not sure the time is right. It seems like the PowerBooks are getting very long in the tooth and the iPods are due for a major rev. When is the right time to jump on the Apple ship? Am I going to get burned by a sluggish overpriced laptop that is updated next month?"
Mac Buyer's Guide (Score:5, Informative)
also consider the OS (Score:4, Informative)
maybe next week... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:maybe next week... (Score:3)
If I were you I'd buy an inexpensive iBook and see if you like it. If you do sell it on eBay (they hold value very well, especially if you keep everything that came with it, bo
Re:maybe next week... (Score:5, Funny)
It's never the right time. (Score:2, Insightful)
But, at least here in Iceland the Mac's hold their reselling price alot better then all the rest.
All that aside.......i'd go for the switch, i've tried alot of OS'es and arch's but it's no contest...my beloved 12" PowerBook is the best yet.
Just go for it....soon (Score:5, Insightful)
To be honest, it hasn't made too much difference, it's still far and away the best laptop I've ever used. Just get enough RAM!!
The thing is really, there isn't ever a 'best' time to buy anything like this. Look at the PC market - we have new motherboards, cpu's etc. coming out all the time.
At least with Apple its fairly regular that they do major updates, usually at MacWorld time!
I think the best time will be very soon. Wait till they release Tiger, and start shipping it on the Minis (or just get one and pay for the upgrade).
The Mini is the cheapest Mac available, and you can re-use all your old monitor/mouse/keyboard etc. Hell, even if you dont like it as a proper desktop, there's still the media-centre/server thing everyone seems keen to turn these babies into.....
Re:Just go for it....soon (Score:2, Informative)
Just get enough RAM!!
Re:Just go for it....soon (Score:3, Informative)
My advice? Wait... (Score:5, Insightful)
Friends of mine who bought the first model of any product line (G3 towers, Powerbooks, etc) find they get all the teething problems associated with a new release, so if you can, wait for the second revision of anything.
So if you want a Powerbook, check the rumour sites - they are all estimating Q2 shipping. This would suggest a revision anything up to 6 months later (usually just a speed bump, but they tend to iron out the wrinkles too).
If you can't wait that long, buy one now - they're still great machines, even if they're superceded next week!
Following this advice I got a 30GB iPod when it was new (the 2nd rev of the 3G series) and the 17" 1GHz iMac (first of the widescreen ones, but not the first flatscreen), both of which have never given me a day's trouble.
Mark
Re:My advice? Wait... (Score:2)
The upcoming Powerbook revisions aren't expected to be G5s, but will have speed boosts, graphics boosts, and a few other rumoured upgrades.
Re:My advice? Wait... (Score:2)
I'm just waiting for Tiger and then I'll try using a mac (after 7 years of running Linux on laptops... I don't have all the time to fiddle with things anymore).
P.S. check out oroborosx.sourceforge.net/ if you want to run X windows apps on your Mac.
Re:My advice? Wait... (Score:2)
The 'up to date' program usually only applies to people who buy hardware after the OS in announced but before it ships...
various strategies... (Score:4, Informative)
I use an 800 MHz TiBook at home that I got as a refurb about a month after the faster ones came out. I got it because it would still boot into OS9 for some legacy stuff, and had a graphics card that works with an old game that I was addicted to.
I use a 1 GHz TiBook at work that I got a while later, and I honestly don't notice any real difference between the two machines' performance (and I use both daily).
I also have some sort of high end WinXP "workstation" at work that I use for running FEM software (and really not much else). It's only a few months old, so it really screams, but because I trust windows so little, I don't use it for much else. It solves transient models really fast though, and the most significant thing about it is that it's really quiet, despite the speed. I've heard older machines that sound like a jet landing in your office.
Good question (Score:5, Informative)
The register is no good as they make all sorts of wild claims which almost never come true.
Usually Apple releases new hard- and software on two regular occasions: Macworld (just past, this january) and the Mac developer conference, in the middle of the year. Buying a new Mac just before then is usually not the best of ideas.
The only way to do this, if you're seriously interested in wasting a lot of time, is to spend time on the Appleinsider forums, noting occasional leaks before Apple C and D's them, and keeping up with current industry trends.
That means, at present: The chances of an Apple G5 Powerbook being released soon are very slim, as far as I can see. The chances that Apple will first release upgraded G4 Powerbooks with the new Motorola G4 and "Freescale" processors is much higher, since those would take the G4 above 1,5GHz.
If you have the patience, wait until the developers conference is over in the middle of the year. I'm sure Apple will have announced something by then.
Any time really! (Score:2, Insightful)
on the flip side of that, you may as well upgrade now as every day on windows is a day when your PC can crash and die and get infected with malware etc etc. (Bit dramatic I know, but hey that is what too much time spe
Do you mean... (Score:4, Insightful)
As usual when you want to buy a computer (or quite anything technology-related), you have to know what you need, and jump and buy it... Of course it will become outdated shortly, but do you really need the new one ?
Funny question (Score:2)
If you do (or intend to do) a lot of editing of big images or video editing or compiling big applications, then you are probably more concerned wi
Re:Funny question (Score:3, Funny)
he's maybe trying to figure when would be the time to buy a mac so that it would not sink in $$$ value instantly after a week(or just a mac guy pimping in drag).
i just switched (Score:5, Insightful)
You're probably gonna get a lot of "wait for the new product announcements" or "wait for Tiger" comments, but seriously, why should you wait? New products might be announced next week... maybe the week after that, maybe the month after that, hell you might end up waiting until June. Or you could just buy one now, and you'll be sure that whatever you buy will most likely still run the latest versions of OS X and other software in 4 years time.
Re:i just switched (Score:2)
"Weird" is in the eye of the beholder. I find its ifconfig less weird than Linux's, for example,, but that's because I used BSD-derived versions of ifconfig, which is what most UN*Xes use.
I.e., for any given pair of UN*Xes X and Y, there's probably something in Y that users of X will find weird. You can substitute "Linux", "FreeBSD", "NetBSD", "OpenBSD", "DragonflyBSD", "Solaris", "AIX", "HP-UX", "OS X", etc. for "X" and "Y" - and you can probably even substitute particular L
ifconfig warning (Score:5, Informative)
Because Mac OS X uses the netinfo database for a lot of config data, doing things like ifconfig by hand (even modifying the
Use system preferences and the net info manager wherever possible. There are command line variants for most of them, but they aren't well documented.
I'm not saying don't use ifconfig - just be sure you know what you're doing.
Linux and OSX are both good (Score:5, Informative)
I always ran Linux on my laptops and with a bit of care an x86 laptop for Linux is a great tool but to get the best compatiblity I couldn't really go for the budget machines and ended up spending £1500 last time on a Toshiba. It was dead after a year. The surface finish (silver paint) rubbed off and scratched, the case cracked and chipped, the battery stopped holding any charge (just after the guarantee ran out) and the backlight died. The Mac was £500 less, and with OS X, the OS it was designed for, it is more than powerful enough.
Learning to use OS X has taken a bit of time but I have made a decision that my next desktop machine will also be a Mac because I love the UNIX base, the interface, the fact I can use X11 apps too. I also like having the menu bar at the top and also like the dock. Some others in the Mac community laugh at me because I do my development using vi in an xterm but what they hey, it works for me! At least I have syntax colouring turned on
The hardware is well made, it has already outlasted my last three x86 laptops and shows no signs of failing. It doesn't run hot, the battery life is excellent, the performance is also good. Having played with the new iMac G5 I can't say I notice it being blazingly faster than my 933Mhz G4 so I think the desire to jump into a G5 laptop is misplaced, the G4 is still a pretty good chip and excellent for mobile applications. Sticking a G5 in is going to increase the heat output, shorten battery life and probably not really increase performance all that much. Just get a lot of RAM for the Mac, I have 640MB in mine and that makes it a very smooth experience.
Would I run Linux on my Mac? Possibly, but to be honest I like OS X, I like the fact that most open source software is also available for the Mac. Sometimes I choose to use the Mac native app, other times I use open source. I like NeoOffice but have MS Office X too. When NeoOffice becomes fully aqua (widgets and all) then I will use it all the time. I certainly won't be buying another copy of MS Office, I'll just keep the one I have for compatiblity but do new docs in NeoOffice. Firefox is better than Safari. I tried using Safari but the slow page rendering annoyed me so I switched back. I have changed from Thunderbird to Apple Mail which I like a lot.
All in all, I think there is a lot to be said for the Mac. Does it mean I don't like Linux? No, I still have a Linux desktop (at least until my next machine) and I will keep Linux on my servers and continue to use open source apps on my Mac.
Spotlight (Score:2)
http://www.gnome.org/projects/beagle/
Re:Spotlight (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, software developers are welcome to develop their own data types which will automatically be indexed by Spotlight.
From a UI and functionality perspective it seems Beagle is trying to do something similar. But under the hood they are very different. Check out Apple's developer info for this at http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight
I'm finding myself becoming more and more frustrated with
Until geeks can wrap their heads around these concepts, people like you will continue to post links to 'version 0.0.5' open source projects (which depend on other packages to do stuff like indexing) and say that it's going to be just like something that Apple will put out in a few months.
I'm not knocking Open Source. But let's call a spade a spade here. When it comes to underlying OS features and UI enhamcements, Apple these days is innovating at a pace that OSS (and even Microsoft) is having trouble keeping up with.
At the workplace, when Apple introduce Mac "Metro" (Score:5, Interesting)
If Apple were to introduce a Mini like diskless slim client, it would probably blow both Windows and Linux away. The diskless Mac "Metro" clients would connect via Gigabit ethernet to a Mac "Metro" Station, the latter performing the role of a raided iSCSI/Fileserver with an inbuilt network switch to directly connect each client.
Sample Mac "Metro" client specs:
Using the Mac Mini as a starting point
Ditch the DVD and Hard drives,
Make one to two Gigabtyes memory as standard,
Upgrade the 100/10 Mib network to 1Gig,
Boot using PXE,
Run all programs on the client in ram, using iSCSI read only access for a common system partition, and dedicated zones server side for each client for swap and read write disk space,
Cheap price, these diskless systems should be well under $100 US
Mac "Metro" "Station" specs:
Combination fileserver and high speed network switch,
Sell four, eight to forty eight ( plus one/two uplink ) port variants, each can support the same number of Metro clients that connect to their own dedicated port,
Raid array as standard, scaled to the number of clients supported,
Filesystem versioning ( Revision tracking and control ) as standard for all document directories and intergrity checking for all filesystems,
A DVD R/W ( or better ) drive for upgrade nd backups.
At a low/suitable per client price, such a system could blow Microsoft out of the business desktop market.
Re:At the workplace, when Apple introduce Mac "Met (Score:2)
In other words there is a *huge* advantage to the Mac in your example, even in terms of IT management: namely, you won't be getting helpdesk calls all the time about how to use a word-processor.
Linux on the Desktop at work and worth it (Score:2)
Yes, NZheretic is David Mohring [slashdot.org].
You can net-boot the Macs and run them diskless. (Score:5, Informative)
Dropping the Client HD to take advantage of RAID (Score:5, Informative)
Re:At the workplace, when Apple introduce Mac "Met (Score:2)
* these diskless systems should be well under $100 US*
you know the old robot saying "DOES NOT COMPUTE"? you aware that apple thinks 425$ to be a fair price for 3/4 of a gbyte? or does the calculation just assume that prices will drop in which case you could just as well keep the specs as same..
Re:At the workplace, when Apple introduce Mac "Met (Score:3, Insightful)
depends on your needs (Score:2, Interesting)
Other than that, don't expect too much: macs have their share of installation and management problems, the hardware is pokey, and battery life of the laptops is not competitive anymore either. Fink is supposed to give you many linux packages, but linux soft
The powerbooks are due to be updated (Score:2)
I think
Just switched - very impressed (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically did not want another XP system in the house. I spend too much time updating XP, zonealarm, adaware, spybot etc etc etc etc on the 3 existing PCs. Then checking no nasties have sneaked past. Simply did not want a forth system to hassle me.
I did consider a cheap laptop with Linux but the windows tax put me off. Also from playing with employers laptops and linux I know that not everything works - like power management - without tinkering. I know how to fix that kind of thing but did not want to have to, if that makes sense.
For my wife I wanted a simple appliance. Zero admin overhead. The iBook fitted the bill. All I can say is that it is fantastic. Its only the 12inch lowest spec (with a 60Gb drive.) Not even put extra memory in it yet. But its plenty fast enough for everyday use. Battery life is amazing. The iLife programs are a lot of fun. No registry. Whole apps are single files. Not files spewed all over the system. Mac OS has proper multi-user with fine user privilege controls. So no worries about the kids accidently resetting the wep key - even if they are using an admin account (it prompts to re-enter passwd.) Lots of interesting and useful features that are so easy to find. I felt at home with Mac OS immediately. I was pleasantly surprised to find there is no shortage of software out there - for example, I found a great DVD ripper within 5mins of looking. I love it. Now we fight over who gets to use the iBook! I did not expect to be even using it.
Re:Just switched - very impressed (Score:3, Informative)
FYI, those are actually directories. The finder just makes it appear as a single file. To look inside control-click on the app and select "Show Package Contents".
Re:Just switched - very impressed (Score:3, Interesting)
My only guess is that whomever moderated this comment had no idea what Forth was.
Apple meeting their own expectations... (Score:5, Insightful)
iPods are only about 3 years old. They have had multiple generations already with different wheels, button configurations, and improvements. Why would they be in need of a MAJOR revision? Probably because in such a short amount of time they have achieved HUGE market penetration and its hard to image what life was like with those crappy pre-iPod mp3 players. What other product has had so much success in such a short amount of time? Perhaps sliced bread... Powerbooks are getting long in the tooth? Do you mean just the fact that they still use a G4 or the design? The current model of Powerbook was introduced 2 superbowls ago, IIRC, replacing the titanium models. Do you want a G5 laptop? Well you'll have to wait. Intel doesn't launch a new processor and have a laptop immediately available. Why should the expectations be different for Apple/IBM. Speaking of IBM, has the thinkpad design changed drastically at all over the past TEN years? Maybe a little lighter, but I would say that laptop is much longer in the tooth.
Now, how about the fact that you are considering migrating from linux and an MP3 player is one of your major deciding factors. Who deserves that credit? Would you be paining over a Creative 64MB rio mp3 player?
Apple has changed the way people consider their computers and accessories so much over the past 3-5 years, that sometimes people lose track of time and perspective. If you want to migrate to apple here is my advice. Do it today. If it doesn't go well, you can go back immediately. That way you won't lose another night sleep pondering what life would be like in OS X vs. KDE/GNOME (yes I know OS X runs X11, I use it.)
May 2004 (Score:2)
I'd read the previous Slashdot story, where it suggests the G5 laptops will come out soon. Usually, Apple will upgrade specs, but keep prices
now is not a bad time... (Score:2)
however, even if you are in a laptop market, it's never a bad time to switch, i think. next-gen PB will be a speed bump, most likely. rumored dual-core G4 or G5 are highly unlikely, and even without those, i wouldn't call current PBs "sluggish." i have a two year old PB - 867 MHz G4. it's been doing great because CPU speed is one thing but OS X is quite another. (the difference, however, will be perhaps less "shocking" for you since you use linux, not windows.)
if you were th
Wait for Tiger (Score:2, Interesting)
Not until you really need to! (Score:2, Insightful)
Post smells suspiciously... (Score:2)
Let's stick to windows users switching to OS X. We all know that Linux users love it too, but it is highly unlikely that they would "switch" - just buy a mini or a laptop to augment their collection of hardware.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Post smells suspiciously... (Score:2, Interesting)
You think Microsoft's strategy is to sow doubt in the minds of Slashdot readers? I really doubt MS is quite that desperate.
And you wanna hear a psychologically tuned meme to sway slashdotters to OS X? Okay, here's one:
"I have never once had to edit a config file, look at a command line window (unless I wanted to) or search the Net for drivers."
As for your question, AllNines, you outta at least wait
It always amazes me (Score:2)
Not that there won't be some good replies to this question, but who do you want controlling your financial decisions? Yourself, based on research, and personal needs/wants, or a bunch of nameless people who really have no incentive to give you accurate and unbiased information?
Again, I'm not saying that there won't be any good responses or anything, but it seems that these "what should I do" questio
switcher!!!! (Score:2, Informative)
On Switching (Score:5, Insightful)
When is the right time to jump on the Apple ship?
In general, the time to switch platforms in any direction is when you've finally got everything running smoothly on your current platform of choice after some major disaster. I'm sure that seems illogical at first, but it stems from the fact that you do not want to switch when you're in the middle of an emergency. If things have always been smooth, there's no need to switch at all. If things are becoming a reoccurring mess, resolve to switch, but then still clean up the current mess! It'll make the switch that much easier when you're not trying to transition all the mission critical stuff a once.
Am I going to get burned by a sluggish overpriced laptop that is updated next month?
Only if you're a fucking idiot. If you think a Mac is sluggish today, why the hell would you buy it? It doesn't matter if a vendor is updating their systems next week or next year. Either what they're offering today meets your needs or it doesn't, and if it doesn't and you still buy it, then you should probably be fired (or beaten by friends and family). The march of technology still guarantees any purchase you make is an expense, not an investment. Stop pretending you can wait to "buy low" because you will never, ever be able to "sell high".
Maybe soon. (Score:2, Interesting)
By the end of '05 we will see the extension of Apple into the movie distribution business. Think NetFlix without the mailers. All you will really need for this is a Mac Mini next to your HDTV either on a ethernet wire or connected wirelessly. Buying a Mac Mini now and learning the ropes of OS X and the iLife apps
NOW (Score:5, Insightful)
I find that it's best to wait until a product comes along that makes you want to upgrade. Anticipating specific future products leads to long waits and disappointment when the final product isn't what you expect. If the PowerBook is compelling to you now, you should buy it now. You won't regret it. If it's not, then wait until Apple releases something you want to buy (if you're waiting for a PowerBook G5 specifically, you could be waiting a long time).
Right now! (Score:2)
depends: function or bragging rights? (Score:2)
Buy.. and don't look back (Score:2)
Don't buy it then scour the web for new stuff/ better prices for the next few months, you'll drive yourself nuts..
If the equipment does what you need when you buy it you'll be happy with it.
We have an old 600mhz ibook that keeps running. It does what it did when we bought it. Very light usefull machine for surfing, video playing, even coding.
One
Depends on who you are... (Score:3, Interesting)
First, my parents. They have a Sony VAIO (poor unfortuante souls) that they don't really know how to maintain. They run IE, despite my putting Firefox on it, and some version of Windows XP, which I haven't updated since I haven't been home since I got married. All I've heard about it are complaints that it runs extremely slowly, which is odd for a 1.66 GHz processor running the OS it came with. So it's probably spyware-laden, and possibly virus-laden. They should switch ASAP.
For anyone that has any inkling of how to run and maintain a computer, which would any of the people reading this... getting older models right after the newer ones come out would be a good idea, just as it's a better value for your money to purchase a manufacturer-certified 1-year old used car instead of a brand new one. That is an entirely economic decision that's based on your needs and the weight of your wallet. :-)
Don't try to optimize. Market-based explanation! (Score:3, Informative)
This is a case where the marketplace actually sort of does operate, and is reflected in the street prices of the gear you buy. If you wait for the hot new product and buy it immediately, you'll find that you will likely a) pay full list price, b) experience unpredictable but significant and annoying shipping delays--including changes in promised ship dates, and c) suffer from various teething pains in the first run of the product.
Those teething pains can vary from serious (high failure rates and product recalls) to cosmetic (Apple Cube "cracks") to trivial but still annoying (on a G5 Tower purchased immediately when first available, when the CD ejects it sounds cheap and clunky and you have the feeling that the door-opening mechanism may fail--although it hasn't yet. They made some kind of improvement and later models are much smoother and confidence-inspiring... that sort of thing...)
Meanwhile, in the runup to the new product introduction everyone is trying to clear out old inventory, and you can get a fire-sale price and all sorts of deals with "free" extra RAM and bundled printers and so forth.
When you buy in is a personal matter, but the actual price you pay and the deal you get tend to reflect the marketplace judgement of the current value of the gear.
If you're waiting, that means you don't have enough money to just buy a new computer every year or so. Personally, I get at least four years out every computer. Four years from now, your computer is going to be four years old. Depending on how clever you are about jumping in just after the leap in technology, it may feel like it is effectively three-and-a-half years old or four-and-a-half years old. It doesn't really matter.
Besides, over the last ten years an amazing thing has happened: performance has been levelling off AND hardware has started catching up to software. These days, you can spend a thousand bucks and get "enough." Whatever enough means. I use a 1.8 GHz G5 at work. My home machine is a 400 MHz G4. Is there a difference in speed? Sure. Is my home machine "fast enough?" Yes.
Did it five months ago, had lots of reasons (Score:3, Insightful)
The verdict so far: it just works. I have MS Office for the Mac installed, so I have compatibility with the office computers. I put Apple's development suite on the machine, so I'm able to write software. (I'd recommend getting the "Building Cocoa Applications" book off of eBay.) Most of the Linux programs I used have OS X ports, and I don't have to fuss with keeping the system running. I can also count the number of system crashes I've had so far on one hand.
Short answer: Now. Long answer.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well... actually, I guess it depends on what you mean. I find it's a *little* odd that so many people ask this question, since it is like any other hardware purchase: you know for a fact that what you buy today will become obsolete in a remarkably quick timeframe. Even if it doesn't become obsolete, you'll be able to buy your same hardware for less money, again in a remarkably quick timeframe.
With the quick devaluation of hardware as a given, I understand what the question is about: how do I avoid the pain of buying hardware right before an update is announced ? Other than buying right after an announcement ( which presents the possible pain of buying before a price drop, of course ), there's no *really* good way to know what Apple has ready to go.
I understand the PC user's issue with that- usually you see Intel or AMD is announcing a new chip or chipset, etc, well before you can buy a PC with those parts, but you don't have quite the same clues with Apple. Sure, maybe IBM is developing a new chip, but will Apple use it? You almost never know.
Maybe think about it like you think about getting a new graphics card... then realize, you either just take your chances and buy what you need or can afford, or don't buy something that hasn't been updated in a while, or buy only after something's announced. Take your pick from one of those three methods.
Right now, I wouldn't buy a PowerBook ( unless I just have plenty of spare cash ), I'd wait, those are due for an update. I _would_ buy a dual G5. Or a iMac G5. Or, if I wanted a small, simple machine, had a monitor, and wasn't editing DV, I'd get a Mac mini. I would consider getting an iBook- they're actually a damn good deal right now, and were updated not long ago.
But really, is there a good time to NOT switch?
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2, Funny)
On the plus side, most native apps are reasonably solid and stable, and the interface is simple and easy to use.
On the negative side, we both found that interface is so simple there's not much you can do to customise it. As for in
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
The XONX X-server project on Sourceforge works nicely. I switched to the "X11.app" package from Apple and it works even better. For anyone with an OSX machine that wants to install additional software that you have gotten used to on a UNIX machine, I strongly suggest that you install darwinports (From darwinports.org) and let it manage your packages for you.
OSX "UNIX-friendliness
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:4, Informative)
If by interface you mean skins, there are ways to futz with it, but they caused stability issues for me, so I don't advise them. Google for OS X and "haxies". As for other ways to change the interface, there are numerous programs that replace the dock, change finder behaviors, etc, that many swear by. I've actually grown to love the simplicity, so I'm not using anything anymore, but I'm sure that there are others that will give recommendations.
Sorry, I can't help you on the network issue.
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:5, Informative)
I think someone's trying to dig up the FUD they read in 1998 and pass it off as informed opinion...let's take a look at some configuration settings for the network.
I'm afraid the lameness filter stopped me from posting a larger chunk of that file, but the DTD is given on the next line and you can indeed download the schema from Apple. Or perhaps we want to observe which nameservers we're using?
...and so on. Looks a little, well, plain-text (or at worst XML) to me. Not binary. Perhaps you're thinking of NetInfo, which has got very little to do with network settings but is instead a directory service for name information. That's stored in Berkely DB format; yes it's binary but it's hardly the world's least-understood format.
Works for me^{TM} on a production network involving OS X, Linux, NeXT, OpenBSD and Slowlaris. One of the OS X servers is serving a filesystem as is the Solaris box. No problems on the Mac side; the Sun's rpc.rquotad is a bit broken so remote quotaing on the Sun machine isn't good. I expect the problem you're observing is related to using a Linux machine as an NFS server. Linux' support for NFS is not very good and never has been very good; if you're creating network mounts on a Linux machine that need to be read on anything else then you should be using Samba. Linux NFS just isn't good enough.
I work with X11 all the time (on Macs and Solaris mainly), and other admins I work with are Linux/Solaris admins; I showed them some X11 action and we all agreed it looked no different from the rendering under XFree86 on Linux. In fact, that's unsurprising, as it's the same XFree86 code as many Linux distributions; the difference is that because Darwin has IOKit and Linux hasn't, you don't need to write an XF86Config-4 on OS X. Nor, indeed, on Darwin/x86.
A note to fellow moderators: marking something as 'insightful' just because it regurgitates known FUD is wrong. Try at least a small attempt to verify the truth in the statements made before deciding whether they contain any insight. A further note, the parent post did not contain any insight, just old and tired dogma.
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:3, Informative)
if I find that a Linux, NetBSD or FreeBSD machine takes some 5 minutes to mount an NFS share on an OS X machine (with portmap running on all nodes) then I think that is reasonably good evidence that there's something wrong with the OS X implementation.
You are mistaken. Those symptoms are evidence that you do not have dns set up properly. A long delay followed by a successful mount suggests that one or both of the systems is timing out on name service queries. Those symtoms are consistent with missing 'A
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
More seriously, you might want to elaborate on your comments, because I haven't found any of them to have ever been true. Maybe I'm just used to working around the "stupid configuration issues" and "crippled GUI" (I *do* use the Terminal a lot, after all) and it is just that the apps I specifically use never crash, but...
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2, Interesting)
5 minutes in Google would have told you that.
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
Let me paraphrase three things:
a) you install new stuff on your machine, after that a application (Safari in this case) mysteriously crashes. You, as an old geek, don't come to the idea to revert the change? (And partialy reapplying it ntil it crashes again to find the particular problem?)
b) Taks bar
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:4, Insightful)
I find expose and the doc far easier to use than the task bar. It's easier to think in apps than in windows, especially when there's a pile of windows open.
Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:3, Insightful)
OSX has its faults, but none of them are show stoppers, the apps definitely do not crash wildly and the GUI is most certainly not crippled and there is no way in hell that configuration is anywhere as difficult or problematic as in your average Linux distro.
Re:Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:2)
OS X isn't perfect. I have never, ever, ever had any 'configuration issue with it, though that is somewhat vague. Apps have crashed, normally third-party apps that were the release-early-and-often type... it happens, but not often...
As for your other posting that was linked to... That is a lame ass
Re:Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:2)
As for the configuration issues - that is a bit deeper, as it is a combination of things. X11 integration was not good, limiting OpenOffice usage, and the J/ OpenOffice stuff (name slipped my mind) was crashing all the time, so I could not use it for my day to day work - I used this machine as a day-today office machine, you know, office apps, mail browser, etc. - so none of the core apps required for my work worked nicely - browser crashing, other
Re:Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:2)
I'm not a heavy X11 user myself in OSX, but I'll take your word for it, and will agree that you'll have a more unified experience using Linux with OpenOffice.
However, I still have to wonder how much time and effort you put into the default browser problem. 5 minutes on google would have told you that you can change the default browser through myriad other means, one of which, simply opening up Internet Explorer and changing the http and https
Re:Why did this troll get modded up? (Score:4, Insightful)
As to your Taskbar comment, that indicates a) you have a preference for it, whihc is your good right, but your comment about Expose being a flashy hack immediately brings you down to troll level. Expose allows you to see, as you might know, the current application's windows (F10 by default), all application windows (F9 by default), or the Desktop (F11 by default). All of those can be changed if you like. Added to which there is added functionality such as being able to hide or quit apps from Expose and the Task switcher, drag and drop to the Expose windows etc.
If you don't like that, it's your preference, and mine to disagree, but calling it a flashy hack is simply asking to get flamed as there just as many people who hate the task bar.
Now, if you said you prefer virtual desktops, as is implemented in most Linux GUIs, then I would understand.
As it is, it just makes you look like you don't like the OS works, which says nothing about how good or bad the OS is.
(And please, how is the Font manager in the OS bad? Which other OS has a better built in Font manager?)
Virtual Desktop Managers for OS X (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry to butt in, but thought I'd throw in a couple cents:
There are a few virtual desktop managers for OS X (a few of which are free):
Crap (Score:2)
I didn't mean to include Virtual Desktop from AWOL Software, which is for Mac OS Classic... sorry.
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:5, Interesting)
The only time I reboot is for security patchs, but not all need to reboot.
We currently play WoW on it, and underneath I have irssi/squid/vnc running, with multiple ssh sessions.
Running a dual g4, great box, needs a new gfx card, but speed wise, its great. I'd have to say I miss my native vga font for terminals (im oldschool, i like perfect fixedfonts).. But a xwindows workaround is a vga.bdf and rxvt, even colors are correct then. (iTerm is ok, but not even close to putty or konsole)
I also have a gentoo box, a sparc sunblade 100, gentoo is rock solid on it now, still 2.4.x kernel, but very stable.
I'd say if you want a unix workstation, OSX is by far the best.
Biggest downside, home/end doesnt work on command lines in OSX, and other shortcuts, key combos. I wish they would let you pick or customize your settings.
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:2)
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:3, Insightful)
you consider it stable when "every once and a while AQUA" crashes? isn't that like arguing that windows is stable but it's the explorer that crashes and as such it's not a biggie?
Well, lets look at this for a moment. People get pretty defensive both of their purchases and their hardware/software choices. So when ever you hear soemone talking about stability, you have to take it with a grain of salt. Personally I run OSX, Linux, Win2K, and NetBSD. I find Win2k has the most crashes while the others ar
Re:been there, done that, got the tshirt (Score:3, Informative)
you consider it stable when "every once and a while AQUA" crashes? isn't that like arguing that windows is stable but it's the explorer that crashes and as such it's not a biggie?
Humm, Once and awhile means monthly not weekly like windows. And aqua doesnt take down the OS when it crashs, just aquadock. I havnt seen a bouncing ball or complete crash since 10.1.
Most crash I've seen are games exiting back to normal desktop, doesnt happen often, but its also the same crash typ
Good reasons. (Score:5, Informative)
The OS is incredibly easy to configure compared to the various competing KDE/Gnome distros (which is exactly the problem there). And if you need the terminal and wish to do stuff by hand, it's there, and you're free to do what you like with the system's innnards as it's OSS and well documented.
The OS, apps and hardware are tightly integrated, which means that problems like hardware compatibility don't exist.
The software and hardware are both of high quality, which really means something if you've used Dell or no name brands.
It goes way byond things like Eye Candy, which says to me that you've never actually used the OS for a period of time yourself.
Re:Good reasons. (Score:2)
but anyhow.. you're missing the thing you're replying: if he really is a linux user from '97 none of the stuff matters, really. you just gave the standard macster response as to why it is soo perfect.
how about a spotlight mention in there too?
basically the reason for why a linux head, who uses it as the desktop beast as well, would be the hardware and the possible switch t
Right and wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
Those reasons, cliched or not, are real.
I should have put in a disclaimer that OSX is not perfect and that there are occasional hardware problems, but my experience on the whole over 15 years of using PC's (from Windows 2.11) and Macs (System 6) is that Apple's hardware is among the best there is overall.
I've had PC hardware from no name chinese brands that fail rapidly, Dell
Re:Good reasons. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? Not ease of use... Ease of maintenance!
OS X checks weekly for security patches, and installing them is a matter of a few clicks. It's slick, easy, and fast.
I used to run Red Hat 9, and security updates were a major headache. The first time I tried to run the updater, I had to first update the OS (manually) to support the current updater. Even after that, I often had to do all kinds of sick hacks to keep it working. Then, a
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Speak for yourself!
I've been running Linux on Macintosh hardware since 1996 and I use Mac OS X as my primary system (even though I develop solutions/software on Debi
OS X is about the *apps* (Score:5, Insightful)
The main benefit of Mac OS X is the quality (and integration) of the applications. You can drag-and-drop any file onto any application, and (if it understands the format) it will open it. You can use any application's print command to get a PDF, which can be searched in the same preview window. Hell, in Tiger, you'll be able to look for a phrase anywhere in any document of the system. Want to know the signature of the Runtime.exec() method? Type in 'Runtime.exec()' in the spotlight bar, and it will bring up the JavaDocs and PDFs that have that phrase on your system.
All Cocoa apps have access to text-to-speech synthesis (thus; it's easy to use a remote phone to dial up and have it read your e-mail contents over the phone, which is very useful if you're a road warrior) via the built in services. You can open a URL in any application with a single keystroke, or send a file to a bluetooth device.
It syncs with your phone, your printer is discovered automatically, and if you've got a SlimServer running on your network it's already in your browser's bookmarks.
Oh, and you can get hardware that works. No, you don't have to google across multiple websites to find supported hardware, or see what the initialisation string you have to hard-code in a config file. You plug it in. It works.
Problem with your system booting up? Boot it and hold down Command+T, then plug another Mac box in with a firewire cable; you can browse the mac as a very large and expensive firewire disk.
And for those of you that love multi-button mice; yes, they work out of the box. No config file changes, no having to configure apps for each key combo. It just works.
As an operating system, Mac OS X and Linux are very similar; Unix was designed to be.
As a user experience, Macs Just Work.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Example: wireless card on my laptop kind of works, but causes a kernel panic in FC3, suspend-to-disk kinda-sorta works after a lot of fiddling, nautilus CD burning kind of works, but seems to burn a lot of coasters on my brand-new burner and there's no way to change the burn-speed, YAST2 is kinda nice, but slow and clunky.
I spend a lot of time repo
Re:Why? (Score:2)
G5 powerbooks won't be out until at least June, if not even August. Though I must admitt I haven't had a speed problem on a 1.3ghz G4 yet. I run Fire, iTerm, Firefox, iTunes all at the same time. Add Photoshop, X-Chat Aqua, and force the Powerbook to run two displays(lcd, and 19" flat sc
Re:Why? (Score:3)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
In 2000, I bought a Powerbook Pismo (g3/firewire) with the intention of running Linux. It runs Linux marviously, and there isn't an application (other than Macromedia flash) which it cannot handle fine -- even with the (now) older 400mhz processor. I extensively use the airport adapter , so the only cable I use with it is the power adapter, and I keep the machine in my living room.
Now, I'm afraid when I decide to replace that laptop, I won't be able to use the new machine in the way I used the old one. ACPI under Linux is awful, so I can't buy x86 -- and the Airport Extreme cards don't work under Linux.
What is a geek to do? Run OSX, kill the Dock, run an X11 server, and compile your own apps (or use something like fink). It isn't pretty, but its the friendliest Unix laptop -- even if it isn't Linux. Nobody says that OSX can't be "just another Unix" -- it just hides it by default.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's exactly what to do (though I recommend darwin-ports over fink). If you really want to run your own window manager just install it and then log in with ">console" to enter darwin without the GUI, then start x in your favorite way after you log in. Then you pretty much have a pure BSD system and you can install and run whatever you used to run under linux. Of course, you won't
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Hardware support! On my x86 desktop, one Linux distro doesn't set up sound, another one sets up sound, but not my printer, and another freezes on shutdown. On my iBook, all the above work, with zero effort on my part.
Also, the hardware is better than most PC laptops.
Huh? (Score:2)
It's an excellent, well designed, stable, powerful OS coupled with excellent quality hardware and all the applications you need are there unless your definition of doing stuff means playing Half Life.
Re:When? Depends what you want (Score:2)
Re:Wait for Rev B (Score:2)
Re:Wait for Rev B (Score:2, Informative)
Warranty still applied, but have it working perfectly out of the box is nicer IMHO.
Re:big disappointment (Score:4, Interesting)
OpenOffice does suck pretty hard, but good things have been heard about NeoOffice. As for Microsoft Office, it may not be great, but remember, it is what most of the world uses, and Linux users have been playing catch-up to try to develop something that works with Office files. I personally have not used Pages or Keynote yet, but I think you're wrong about it not being acceptable for business or academic use; the only thing it really lacks for the average business user is a spreadsheet. What kind of average user needs serious math and drawing tools in their normal business life? Does MS Office come with that on Mac or Windows? I've never needed any of that stuff.
You seem to want Photoshop for free out of iLife, and that's not what it's for. iPhoto is a great cataloging tool for digital photos, and lets you do the simple stuff home users want to do, like fix redeye. You're not going to be able to clone out that thumb over the lens in that picture or do otherwise complicated things, because it's not meant for that. I've never had the need for iMovie so I can't comment on that.
Outliners and brainstorming tools, I'm not sure about. I mean, there are wonderful things like SubEthaEdit that allow you to do online collaboration on documents that save in a large variety of formats. OmniOutliner is supposed to be excellent. Where's the problem?
Fink sucks. Just because MacOS CAN run linux software doesn't mean it SHOULD.
Never had problems with networking. It's a breeze. I can't see what you could be complaining about here. Doing anything wireless on MacOS is infinitely easier than on Windows or Linux, and I've had the experience to back that up. Both wired and wireless connections just work, simple and easy. And it's not just the basic default network, I've changed all kinds of settings, including WEP, with ease.
SMB could be done a little nicer, but for the most part it's pretty simple. The trouble is more with a lousy protocol and spec than with a lousy implementation, but there could be improvements made. And if you want to make Linux and Macs talk nicely, install AFS on your Linux machine. I did it on my Ubuntu machine and it was easy and now they talk to each other very nicely.
As for your comments on the GUI, I don't think I've ever seen anyone be as wrong as this in one sentance before. Slow is a comment I've only heard from someone trying to run Panther on an old slow machine, and if you tried to run XP on a machine at the low end of the compatability spectrum you'd say it was slow too.
"Non-Standard" deserves its own paragraph. I can't imagine how you could tell a Linux user that the MAC INTERFACE is non-standard. Apple INVENTED the standard GUI interface. The Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines are still the best ways for people to interact with a computer short of plugging it directly into your brain like Data from Star Trek. It is THE most standardized user interface out there, and the only one where you're SURE that Cmd-S will save your document in any program, every time.
The MacOS is NOT a Unix workstation! Why would you think it is? When has it ever been put forth that way? The hardware is about as modern as it gets; remember who made the first 64-bit desktop available. There's plenty of applications available, and they all have the same interface and you'll be sure they will work when you install them (as in, you won't need to make sure that your python libs are >=1.23.06; if you have 1.23.05, the program WILL NOT INSTALL).
I swear, if you didn't have specific complaints I would think that this was just some badly formed joke about Linux, because a lot of these complaints are the exact problems people have with Linux, and the problems that the MacOS actually SOLVES.
Re:big disappointment (Score:3)
I count about 10 people in this article alone, that are busy proclaiming that their undying love for OSX is mostly due to is underlying Unix core, hidden below a nice GUI. Here's a sampling...
Re:big disappointment (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like you got some bad hardware. Unfortunate but not representative of the whole.
The processor is pretty slow, too: even in its heyday, a G4 wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and today it is really not competitive anymore.
Slow for what? It's well maintained that most home users will have a hard time maxing a 1 ghz processo