Outsourced Support, Now Outsourced Telemarketing? 125
Sir_Dill asks: "I was a little skeptical of the whole chicken-littlish sky is falling attitude about outsourcing to India, that is until it hit home. Over the last couple of days I have started to receive at least two calls a night from an unknown telemarketing company. First it was discovercard and tonight its a mortgage company called Parsec (whose webpage doesn't work in Firefox). Each time they ask for the person whose name is associated with my phone number in Google (an entirely different story altogether). When I inform them that they have the wrong number, they read the same script each time and each time I ask them to take me off their lists. Its getting old and I am feeling a little helpless in regards to this...and the worst part is...it is not an offer I can't refuse...it is one I can't understand. Has anyone else experienced this? How did you handle it and does the National Do Not Call list even apply?"
Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:3, Informative)
If you're a residential MCI customer, and wind up speaking to someone who's in the U.S., you are extremely fortunate. Only high spending residential customers are routed to U.S. representatives.
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:2)
RMH had one in Fredericton but I believe they layed off their 200+ staff and moved it to Asia. I think my friend who worked their said they were selling for AT&T as well.
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:2)
That's probably understandable - with problems in the fishing industry, there's lots of people out of work out there (which means a large base of established workers to pick from). Technically, it doesn't really matter where you stick a call center, so long as you can bring in a few T1's (or whatever it is you're using). Espessially now using VoIP, you can literally h
New jobs for the maritimes (Score:2)
Looking at my spam box, it is clear that phishing is, however, a growth industry. What better for the out of work Newfie cod fisherman to make a new living catching unsuspecting Citibank customers?
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:1)
Canadian dialect? (Score:2)
Hello?
Yes. Good evening, Sir. I'd like to tell you aboot our new credit card.
Aboot? I'll give you a boot: CLICK!
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:2)
Most of our (.au) phone spam is from overseas (Score:2)
Thanks to the efforts of our local telco mostly-monopoly [telstra.com], it's actually cheaper at the wholesale level to call from overseas, just like from here in Perth it's much cheaper to fly to Bali than Sydney. I once worked for a bloke who would make a call to a Sydney number from his mobile, then hang up. Sydney would recognise the calling number, and pass the information to a site in Japan, which would ring him back. He would then dial the number he really wanted and
Re:Most of our (.au) phone spam is from overseas (Score:2)
Blame the government. (Score:2)
Horse shit. Government regulators have a lot to answer for.
Whenever you see wacky pricing like this, it is never a function of pure free-market economics or corporate greed. It is ALWAYS a result of government mucking things up again with taxes, tariffs, onerous rent-seeking regulations, monopoly franchises, or other abuses of free enterprise.
Of course, economically illiterate leftists howl about how it's the fault of Big Business. Or "economists." But it's not
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:1)
Re:Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations (Score:1)
If they are calling you anyways... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:2, Insightful)
I asked to speak to a manager.
The manager came on and asked what was up.
I explained that I was doing my part to change the business model.
Then I hung up.
I don't think i changed the business model, but it was fun.
Next I will try to sell the telemarketer my old P233MMX that's sitting in the basement. (It's only US$3,200! A real bargiain! Tech support at only US$47.95/min for the first 3 min, US$97.95/min thereafter! etc. .
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:3, Funny)
It was fun - wasted about 20 minutes of the guys time - found out how low of an income they were making etc.
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:2)
That worked until I found a trainee that use to do telemarketting. One call, he actually finished the script the telemarketer was reading off and specifically said what page the perso
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:1)
Re:If they are calling you anyways... (Score:2)
I know several people in telemarketing. I know many many more who lef tit once they discovered just what kind of *work* they would be performing. Most of them left based on ethical issues (and many more never took a job like that). If your ethics are so low as to do the things that many telemarketers do for a living, then you get no sympathy from me.
If on the other hand you are one of t
loophole (Score:1)
I mean if companies are outsourcing anyway....
You set up shop anywhere other then the US, and then make your calls. Lots of telemarketing can be done without having to obey the National Do Not Call List.
That's scary!
DNC applies to company being represented (Score:4, Informative)
Sue the companies whose services are being sold. After all, they are paying someone else to hassle you, and so they are ultimately responsible.
I haven't had a discover card for almost 9 years now, and I don't miss it one bit. Crappy customer service, accepted almost nowhere compared to Visa and BastardCard, and higher interest rates, too.
-paul
Re:DNC applies to company being represented (Score:2)
Bad service? I don't think so (Score:2)
They might not be the best pick if you carry a balance, but if you pay off your bills they frequently offer as much as 5% back in cash or more in gift certificates. A pretty good deal really.
Re:loophole (Score:2)
Re:loophole (Score:1)
I reported the first two, but the last two wouldn't give me enough information -- so they got away with it -- that's my only complaint -- the telemarketer can just hang up, and unless you have caller id, or are willing to pay your phone company to tra
National Do-Not-Call list (Score:5, Informative)
Of course it does. If the company they're calling for does business inside the U.S. then they're in violation of the DNC list, regardless of where the actual calls are coming from - the company placing the calls are an extension of the comapny they're representing.
Immediately file a complaint at https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.
AFAIK, you don't have to warn them or ask them to remove you from the list - its not your responsibility to tell them you're on the list. Its their responsibility to check the list against the numbers they're dialing. They fail to do so, then its their problem they get hit with the fines.
I've had to do this with at least three companies. I lodged complaints all of three times apiece. I've not got a single call from them again. IIRC, the fine is $500 each call.
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:2)
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a company.
I hire a company in some other country to manage my Marketing or at least a portion of it.
They hire a spam/telemarketing company that is also outside of the US.
Since I'm not my contractors subcontract keeper I'm in the clear. I have plausible deniability of the behaviour of the third company and as such, am not liable under the DNC rules
Wake Up America!
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:2)
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, that's not exactly true.
If the company has a "pre-existing relationship" with you, they're allowed to call you regardless of whether you're registered (until you tell them to remove your number from their list)
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:1)
Correct, but that's not the case with the OP and this company.
To expand on what you've touched on:
A company with whom you've had a "pre-existing relationship" may only call you for upto 18 months after the relationship has ended. Even then, if you tell them not to call you again, they cannot call you regardless. To quot
Re:National Do-Not-Call list (Score:2)
page (Score:1, Informative)
Just tell them you died. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just tell them you died. (Score:2)
There's a common fallacy people use when dealing with call centers. Because they hear a human voice on the other end, they assume they're talking to an actual human being. The human on the phone is just acting as a carbon-based interface unit. Actual decisions are made by a not very bright computer system that's programmed to maximize exposure to the people the
Re:Just tell them you died. (Score:2)
Re:Just tell them you died. (Score:2)
Seems pretty straight forward. Good tip!
Real live people? (Score:2, Informative)
Wow - I've started getting (here in the UK) recorded messages, in an American accent, apparently from Florida. Swamps your tape if the answerphone picks up.
I'm on the UKs cold call opt-out list, but presumeably foreign companies aren't under any obligation by that.
I really don't know what can be done about these damnable tele-spammers. Any suggestions?
John
Re:Real live people? (Score:5, Funny)
Thats silly. Americans don't have accents!
Re:Real live people? (Score:1)
Sure you do, haven't you noticed how silly you sound when you record your voice and play it back?
Re:Real live people? (Score:2)
What plagues my answering machine are messages that start out with "Please hold for a very important message".
It's gotten so bad that we literally don't answer the phone any more.
Re:Real live people? (Score:2)
So maybe it was trying to fill up your answering machine.
Want to get their attention? (Score:2)
Send them email.
Send them postal mail because these days not many people exepect a letter in the mail.
or if necessary
Do at your own risk. I am not responisble for possible damages or hilarity that might ensue.
Google bomb 'em. See litigious bastards [google.com].
Google is showing a measly 172 hits of "PARSEC Interact" [google.com] and it wouldn't take much effort to tie parsec interact to "annoying telemarketer" or "creepy telemarketing company". A couple people with their own domains & some perl script should
Re:Want to get their attention? (Score:2)
Parsec's reply on Do Not Call lists: (Score:4, Informative)
"6. How do you handle Do Not Call Legislation? PARSEC Interact has implemented a rigorous program that ensures full DNC compliance.
"As required by law, we ensure that all of our clients are properly registered for the states in which their programs are scheduled to run. This is required before the program can run. The process of registering is relatively painless, and we will walk you through every step.
"Once the list is procured, we scrub not only against the National DNC Registry, but also against state and local DNC lists that are pertinent to the campaign.
"All of our telemarketing agents are trained on how to handle customers who request to be put on the DNC Registry. They are also trained on which practices are acceptable, and which are not acceptable.
We take DNC compliance very seriously, and we are proud of the proactive steps we have taken to ensure compliance. For detailed information on how PARSEC handles DNC compliance, ask your PARSEC representative about our DNC Compliance Guidelines."
So, shouldn't you be able to make a claim against them?
https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.
Just hang up without expliantion (Score:3, Interesting)
Just hang up on them the moment you realize what is going on. You both will be better off.
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, to make a difference, I'd go the other way around. When they ask for you, or the homeowner, or whomever, ask them to hold on while you find that person. Put the phone down, and walk away to do something else. If they hold for 10 minutes or more, you'll get a good laugh out of it.
This may tie up your phone line, but you're wasting their time (better than them wasting your time). Advertisers have to pay them, and you're decreasing their sales effectiveness. If enough people do this, telemarketing may be perceived as less effective.
Alternatively, politely and calmly ask them for their name, and the name of their firm (rather than being aggressive or letting them know what your intentions are). Then file a DNC complaint ASAP.
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:2)
ask them to hold on while you find that person. Put the phone down, and walk away to do something else.
Interesting thought... Has someone come up with a device that checks incoming calls against a list of people known to you, and if it is an unknown number, automatically either sends them directly to the answering machine or tells them that because they are not known, they will have to wait through a 20 second wait period before their call is put through?
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.pagerealm.com/tc2k/ - the TeleCrapper 2000 was linked to on Slashdot a long while back by the creator (in a comment to a 'what hardware do you hack?' article, I believe).
It's been awhile since I've looked at the actual site, but I think it was hardware related, and he was looking for people to d
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:2)
Personally, I would kill for a cheap or OSS solution that could read the Caller ID and immediately pick up on the answering machine. If I had any coding ability at all I'd do it myself.
Have you looked at asterisk [asterisk.org]?
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
And the little Googling I did turned up a Windows version that uses coLinux and is geared toward VoIP, which isn't really what I'm looking for.
Does prove that SourceForge isn't the end-all, be-all of OSS, though. thanks.
Anybody out there know of any howtos or anything for Asterisk?
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:3, Interesting)
I dunno, but this is exactly the kind of thing that a F/OSS PBX (like Asterisk, for example) could be set up to do. You could also write some code so it captures the last wor
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
CallAudit Voice 6.0 [mtnsys.com]
On the features page:
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
"Oh, it says 'Out of Area'. I bet it's a solicitor. I'll just let the machine get it."
"C'mon, machine."
"How many rings do I have it set to pick up on again?"
"God, this is annoying."
"..."
"AAAAAAARRGGGGH!"
Number one, it's the geeky thing to do to look for elaborate, expensive, and insane solutions to inane problems.
Number two, yes, you can ignore the bum. But when the bum keeps asking, or ha
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
This doesn't make a difference. Telemarketing companies aren't stupid; they know that the front-line marketers, the ones that actually make the calls, need to get a certain number of hooks each day to stay profitable.
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:2)
As I said in my original post:
You do, however, make a compelling point. That being said, I still think that one could hook a sales person (in your system) by saying "sure, I'm interested" and then "hold on, while I get a pen to write down the information". If they're as smart as you claim, they'll eventuall
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
BTW, a really good point. Now that I stop and think about it, it seems pretty common on Slashdot, and I'm glad you called me on that. I think it's symptomatic of projecting negative attributes to people I/they don't like (or want to dislike). Anyway -- cheers.
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:2)
I'm on the US DNC and I got a call one time that my Caller ID said was unavailable. The gent with the Indian accept (being in tech it's an accent I'm all too familiar with) said that he was calling from Citibank. "Citibank?" says I, "How can you be calling from Citibank when my caller ID says India?"
Stunned sil
Re:Just hang up without expliantion (Score:1)
But the thing to remember is that tele-marketers work from a set script that is structured to make it difficult to refuse (do you want cheaper ?) or hang up without being rude.
To get them off the script I like to answer their question with completely illogic
The easy way (Score:1)
Re:The easy way (Score:1)
Since DNC was passed, we have had only one or two sales calls from rogue companies. Unfortunately, charities and politicians are exempt, and they still call.
FWIW, I think a cellphone is no guarantee of peace and quiet. I have heard of spam sent to phones via text messaging, and I am sure it's only a matter of time.
Just one more reaso
Make them pay (Score:2, Interesting)
Message from our partners (Score:2, Interesting)
Related note (Score:1)
Re:Related note (Score:2)
Re:Related note (Score:1)
But, who cares. It's called the "DO NOT CALL" list. Opt-out.
Instead, there should be "OK TO CALL" list. Only those numbers can be used by list callers. This is Opt-in.
Major side benefit: the "OK TO CALL" registry can be moved from the heavy-duty load-balancing database-crunching infrastructure to a simple lightweight PHP script like those "Comment" pages on simple blogs. Should be able to host the site at FreeHost4Ever.what or simi
oh don't get me started... (Score:2, Informative)
so I decided to see how bad it would be, they promised 1 week of paid training before we hit the phones - and had people on within 3 days.
I never made a sales call, but listened in on a huge number of them. Wow. It's not that the job is hard, it's that the people on the other end are harsh, and the only good telemarketers are actually quite evil, even in r
simple (Score:1)
Re:simple (Score:1)
No way! It's bad enough losing jobs to India. I'm not going to let them do my girl too!
Hello? (Score:4, Funny)
[drop dinner fork and answer] Me: Hello?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Xddeedxx dffrt
Me: What?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Wuddub xuxvvux zazzxue!
Me: Oh?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Dferguh Zuul. Juju fvuv.
Me: Why, of course! I'll buy a hundred!
DNC aoolies to overseas calls too (Score:4, Informative)
From the National Do Not Call Registry FAQ [ftc.gov]
I guess it would make sense that people doing business in the US are still accountable to US laws and regulations. Get their name and number -- file a complaint. It will do us all a favor.
National Do Not Call List (Score:2)
First Word: National
Not International. This outsourcing is just another way of getting around the rules. Just like CAN-SPAM act. You can't spam from within the US, but if you outsource to someone outside of US Law you can spam yourself blue in the face and nothing can stop short of WMDs
Obviously these laws aren't working anymore.
Image of the Day (Score:2)
Even though the actual result is more likely to be pink and greasy, it was still worth a laugh. Thanks.
Re:National Do Not Call List (Score:3, Informative)
Incorrect. I pointed this out in my post [slashdot.org] above (it has a stupid typo in the subject header). The post references this FAQ [ftc.gov], which states that:
Re:National Do Not Call List (Score:2)
But if I'm representing myself as a non-US firm, who's really a front for a US firm, then I'm in the clear.
Don't believe me, see the recent news on Haliburton and GE deciding not to do any more business with Iran. Any more? It's been banned for years, but they used foreign fronts to do their work for them. Are they in trouble with the US Gov? No. They got away with it.
Re:National Do Not Call List (Score:2)
No, you're not in the clear. I see where you're coming from, but it's not really applicable to telemarketing. You are suggesting that businesses operating outside of the US, but doing trade and advertising inside of the US are not subject to US regulation. That's just not right -- these businesses are regulated every day, regardless if it's a spin-off, a front, or a subsidiary. Haliburton is a
Here is their contact info (Score:5, Informative)
2672 Bayshore Parkway # 703
Mountain View, CA 94043
Phone: 866-9-PARSEC(866-972-7732)
650-960-1884
Fax: 650-960-1881
Email: info@parsecinteract.com
Probably a mail drop
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe I'm missing something but:
1) You were skeptical about the significance of the outsourcing issue until you decided that some telemarketing service is outsourced -- and that's the statistical evidence that won you over?
2) Nothing you mentioned suggests that the calling is outsourced anyway.
3) Even if it is, given that they weren't calling you before and now they are, the loss of a hypothetical telemarketing position isn't something that even Lou Dobbs would get too worked up over.
US Census Bureau (Score:2)
Also, if they ask if you are 'in charge of the phones', tell them "I don't have a phone." If they ask for the 'resident' or 'homeowner', tell them you live in a cardboard box [and that you don't have a phone], modify this as needed to suit what they ask.
Re:US Census Bureau (Score:2)
Re:US Census Bureau (Score:2)
I handle it with fake racism (Score:2)
They are usually so superstitious about first world technology, that they actually believe this and hang up.
Or maybe.. (Score:1)
Re:I handle it with fake racism (Score:1, Troll)
"...I handle it with fake racism..."
I'm not convinced that you do.
"...They are usually so superstitious about first world technology, that they actually believe this [some GPS/Bioweapon garbage] and hang up..."
Nope. Couldn't spot any fake racism here.
T&K.
Re:I handle it with fake racism (Score:2)
Here's the truth in three points of why this is fake:
1. These weapons don't exist. Even if they did exist, they would require ownership of a missile silo and about $5 million worth of rocket fuel to even launch- who would waste $5 million to blow up an office building worth maybe $5000 tops?
2. The real villians aren't the poor people working on the call center line- they're the C-level executives in the
Learn to cuss in Indian (Score:1)
I have generally found Indian help desk/tech support people to be polite, knowledgeble, and empathatic. But telemarketing is evil, and should be resisted with every opportunity!
Re:Learn to cuss in Indian (Score:1)
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Cussing%20in
Re:Learn to cuss in Indian (Score:2, Informative)
That's a tall order. There are almost as many Hindustani languages as there
are African languages. You can see a list of the *major* ones here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Langu ages_of _India
Of course, each village has its own dialect, and a lot of the people are
polyglots. In general, I'd guess that the three languages a random person
from India is most likely to know are probably Hindi, Tamil, and English --
but t
No no no! (Score:3, Informative)
We don't use that around here... (Score:2)
Telemarketer (T): I'd like to speak with the person who is responsible for buying telephone equipment.
Secretary (S): We don't use telephony in our company.
T: Well, how do make phonecalls?
S: We never make phonecalls - we're just a couple of girls who sit in the office all day.
T: Okay. How do other people call you?
S: That never happens.
T: I'm sorry to have disturbed you. Goodbye.
Basical
Re:We don't use that around here... (Score:2)
I've just discovered that the website I mentioned does have a version in English [miracleas.dk].
SBC tried this with me. (Score:2)
Re:easy (Score:2)
Re:easy (Score:1)
We still get the political/police/etc/that are unfortunately allowed by the FTC.
My wife did stop answering the phone a couple weeks ago because we got a whole rash of calls with no one on the line, but that stopped, I am not sure what that wa
Re:easy (Score:1)
I keep my home line for "home phone" numbers, put an answering machine on it, and turn the ringer off. If somebody really wants to talk to me on that line, they can leave a message, and if I REALLY want to talk to them, I'll get back with them.
I never give my cell phone # out to anyone except friends and anyone I know it isn't going to put it on some list.
For ~$20 a month it's an easy way to avoid the whole telemarketing mess.
Not sure what
Re:easy (Score:1)
Autodialers don't stand a chance... six months and not a SINGLE telemarketing call.
Verizon offers a similar feature for $6 or $7 a month
- Tony
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Almost ALL telemarketing calls have four things that indentify them immediately. 1. No name in the CALLER ID. 2. "Hi, how are you doing to today, Mr. Mrs [insert last name here]?" 3. You answer the phone, "Hello?" and either there is a pause much longer than normal, or you hear someone on the other end answering with "Hello?". 4. When they do come on, you hear that it's a call center. I am usually very polite. They ask to speak to me, and I very politely say, something like "just a sec", or "one moment". I