What Do You Charge for Tech Support? 1168
war3rd asks: "Years ago I used to offer tech support for friends and family (for free), and ended up doing it for everyone they and I knew. I cut it out because it was taking too much of my time, but I've been getting more and more requests lately due to everything from viruses, spam, spyware, as well as aging PC with Windows 98 and ME (oog!) on them still. I was thinking of saying OK to requests that are convenient, but I want to make it worth my while. So I ask, I'm sure that some of you out there must do this, what is the general going rate for basic user tech support (i.e. getting someone's home machine cleaned up and back to normal email & web browsing capability)?"
"I assume that there is probably some range in different parts of the country, but I'm curious anyway. And let's just assume that I live in the Tri-State area around New York City (can you say 'overpriced?'). I figure I should be able to pull in enough to feed my ever-present desire for better hardware, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a jerk and gouge people who should be able to trust me with their machines. So what to other Slashdot users charge for their tech support services?"
My plans (Score:3, Informative)
$50 for the first hour of work. $30 for each addition hour of work I do for them. Usually I resolve the issues in the first hour. If the issues are more prone to fully formatting a box, I usually take it home and charge them $50 for my time at home.. since honestly, formatting / installing drivers takes time but not enough time to waste their money.
If it is something like their computer doesn't work (and its rather stupid) I usually just ask for gas money + $20. I usually always work for a friend, or a friends friend.. I don't do professional calls (e.g. companies) unless, again, are small and a friends company.
Eric
P.S. I used to do the whole "$50 to wipe it, $20 to install hardware, $15 to install software" thing, but when I started dealing with friends of friends, I upped it.
Whatever the market will bear (Score:3, Informative)
I'm in the same boat (Score:5, Informative)
In my professional life I've charged two hourly rate: $100/hr and $50/hr. I can't ask Ma and Pa Rancher/Farmer for that. I would think that undercutting what the area computer shops would charge would be acceptable. When I did service work at an Apple Specialist shop we charged a $45 bench fee for all computers and a $75 bench fee for all laser printers, just to take a look at them. Then our hourly rate was $50/hr. The markup on parts was anywhere for 40% to 200%. That was in '98. If I charged $15 or $20 an hour and maybe something for gas if I had to drive more than 5 miles or so, wouldn't that be agreeable with these rural customers? They'd have to drive 40 miles one way to get to the nearest town with a computer shop. With gas prices the way they are, that adds up fast.
One thing I don't hesitate to do is recommend buying a new computer. Most of these rural folks have ancient systems, at least by today's standards. If the machine is still useable and they understand that they can't run new software on the old machine, I'll help them fix it, even if it's replacing hardware like a bad HD. I highly recommend they replace the machine if they are trying to run new software on a circa '97 Windows 95 machine. It's just too old. I also never recommend the buying computers at the area Ma and Pa computer stores. I always recommend they buy from a larger company with an established reputation, support and warranty system, and will be here next month or next year when the machine has problems. I recommend Dell or Gateway to those people. I tell them about the back to school specials and help them find a system that fits their needs. I figure that's a much better suggetion than to tell them to go to Best Buy or CompUSA and pick up the special of the week. Sure the individual piece of hardware has a warranty, but if Ma and Pa Computer Shop closes up, they're not going to be able to find anyone else willing to figure out what's under warranty and what's not on an old machine. Thoughts on this?
I always set the folks up with some of the better pieces of free software like Mozilla or Firefox, Thunderbird, AntiVir, AdAware, and others. I tell Windows to auto-update without user interaction (something I'd never do on my own machine, but something that necessary on a novice's computer IMHO).
I'm not sure what the best price range is but I know one thing. We can't afford to do it for free all the time.
My standard (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Informative)
They asked me to help them order a computer (dell) and when that computer started to malfunction they kept calling me - and I kept telling them "you bought this from Dell call Dell."
One time they did an OS upgrade (a year after I setup their network) and their network connection on that computer started to malfunction. I did charge them $200 for me having to drive to their place, figure out what they did, and then reinstall the networking files.
I feel bad in some ways - but then realize that they are a business - they charge people and so should I. You may want to register as an LLC. It protects you legally (lawsuits) and you can do a lot of tax deductions...one company tried getting my SS# so they could list me as an employee and run taxes on me, etc. I told them no way...they can cut me a check to my business. They wanted that EIN number - again no way. B2B they only need your business name (only one business per state with that name allowed anyhow).
In the end, make it clear as to what you are offering. Even better, put it in writing and have them sign it. Make it a simple/stupid document and you are pretty well covered.
Segment Segment Segment (Score:3, Informative)
First off, don't charge anything to anyone in your immediate family or friends. This ideally should be a group of at most about five people.
Second, think about the possibility of trading and/or bartering services, whether formally or informally. Surely at some point it will be beneficial if you can count on free/reduced services from, say, a plumber, or a real estate agent, or an attorney, or any number of people.
Then charge everyone else. I would do it officially and get a business license which is probably not too expensive and you can recoup the costs after 25 hours of work, I would guess. (Again, maybe an accountant or attorney can help you incorporate in this case). Then charge something like $25 per visit plus $15 per hour, or whatever you feel your time is worth. The people you are charging are customers, and you are legitimately providing services to help them. I would certainly "fix it right" the first time and maybe offer a sheet or two of common traps so that they don't have this problem in the future.
There's franchises that already do this, like Geeks on Call [geeksoncall.com] (disclaimer: I have no ties with them whatsoever). More than likely you will want to do something smaller.
I suggest creating a company or getting a license (plus listing any certs you have helps) because eventually you might be the guy to help a small business at which you can easily make a lot of money. Also, when its a company (and not "my brother-in-law Steve, he's great") it's OK to charge more because people expect overhead, etc.
I would only do this final step if you're really interested and if it seems worthwhile. You can always have a very high rate that is charged to businesses but you help residential customers for less on the side.
Basically, do it right and all the way or don't do it at all and stick to helping close family members and those whose services you might use in the future. The third step is what can easily cause you to go from a casual helper to someone who can make a decent chunk of change.
Re:Reasonable Service Rate $50/hr (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Reasonable Service Rate $50/hr (Score:2, Informative)
Re:For a family member? (Score:4, Informative)
Computer Matrimony (Score:3, Informative)
They might as well hand out a Marriage Liscence when you repair it, because (assuming you always do it right as I do) any time ever in the future anything at all goes wrong with it they will call YOU.
The trick is getting OUT of doing repairs for friends and family, me I just become my grumpy self, and tell them word for word what I am thinking while I repai their system. THEN They ONLY ask ifits serious and nobody else could help, at that point for FAMILY I will help.
The easiest way to "HELP" a few friends to get them out of the habbit of asking you is copy all their files off, and wipe the machine and when they say where are my files you say "Oh you needed those ?" and after a day or so say Oh I forgot and made a backup, the near scare willl prevent them from EVER asking you again, I promise....
Re:I barter.... (Score:2, Informative)
Barter is not illegal, but bartering of professional services requires recognition of services received as income.
If I, a lawyer, write your will, and you, an IT professional, fix my computer, we have to recognize the value of the services received (computer fixed for me, will for you) as income, and thus increase our gross income, and likely pay more tax. This prevent professionals from never paying any taxes by simply bartering all their services for things they need. Once upon a time the U.S. was filled with bartering clubs full of professionals who were able to avoid paying large sums of tax, until the IRS cracked down.
If you need clarification or advice, see an accountant or lawyer (an accountant should be able to handle these kind of questions, and would be much cheaper)
Market vs. Cost (Score:5, Informative)
1. cost model: If you were doing this as a living, you'd understand that you'd have a portion of your time that you could actually be out billing, vs. a portion you're unable to bill. Researching things, fixing things for people that end up not paying, fixing things that you goofed up the first time and don't bill for the second time, and being idle are all unbillable times. While I've seen models where employeers pretend they can have people 80% or higher billable, this places great stress on the system long-term. At 50%, you're going to have to factor the downtime. So, if you want to make $50,000/year, at 50% billable (on 50 weeks worked), that's 1,000 billable hours a year = $50/hour (easy math). But you might find additional expenses you need to include, like taxes and social security (oops! there goes a huge chunk), health insurance, general liability insurance (if you do this, I'll guarantee you'll eventually have someone sue you for something assuming you have deeper pockets than they do) current and legal licenses to software, a new laptop every year (they get beat to hell traveling), Internet connectivity, cell phone bill, etc. - and you're suddenly up over $60/hour.
2. comparative model: My plumber in my small town charges $70/hour. I'd argue that my nonstop education in technology (vs. his rather static field) deserves at least $10/hour more, not to mention the college education appropriate for it. $80/hour is my "plumbing rate" in the Midwest. Fixing PCs or running cables = plumbing.
3. service model: If you're able to do much more than "computer plumbing", charge appropriately for the job. I'm a certified security analyst, so I charge $155/hour when doing assessments (cheap actually). I charge $125/hour for Cisco engineering.
4. "bill" your gratis accounts: I take care of some little old ladies and relatives in town. I let them know (and occasionally will print a courtesy invoice with the actual charge and credit applied) how much it really costs. I ask them to donate to a charity - the church ladies all do so to our church, and church has new gravel covering the parking lot, utility bills paid and other important things from a tiny bit of computer work from me.
The best thing you can do is enforce that the computer world is a business and a profession. I encountered a "do it for free" attitude when I moved here due to a 20-year-old hack that did so. When you give it away without any cost, you make it worthless and cause people to think what we do is not legitimate. Electricians, plumbers and other technicians all have to feed their families and pay their bills. Neglect your car and demand free repairs, and you'll suffer the consequences. Computer techs need to help the public understand their PC is no different than their car in this manner.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Informative)
However, all of these clients were quite wealthy. I always tried to cater everything towards the client. Some of them weren't as wealthy and didn't pay as much. I told them if they didn't feel like I was worth the money, they should pay me what they felt I was worth - it was then my decision to come back or not the next time they needed me. I'm also a softie, so some people did get away with paying me very little, but I figured it all worked out for everyone.
I carried myself in a professional and friendly manner, so they continued to ask me to come back. When I told one of my clients that I was moving across the country, he asked if he could finance a business for me to run - that way I wouldn't have to move. I politely declined and he has since asked if he could fly me back to work on his computer.
Now, people where I live now aren't as rich as that - I do a lot of free work here, but I also explain to people that since I'm not getting paid, things may take me longer to get around to. I think most people realize that they get what they pay for - or don't pay for, such as the case may be. I also do a lot of bardering. I have one friend that I help with computer stuff and he helps me with my car maintenance.
The Plight of the Technology Professional (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Do not go under 20 dollars an hour (Score:4, Informative)
First, think about the total number of hours you're able to bill in a week. Trust me when I say that you will have a hard time billing more than 50% of the time you spend "working", based on the amount of time you spend travelling getting to and from customers, the time you spend dealing with the financial side of being self-employed, the time you spend getting new business (even taking phone calls or e-mails from prospective customers) and such.
Assuming a 40 hour work week, that's 20 billable hours a week, or (assuming a 2 week vacation), 1000 billable hours a year. At $20 / hr, you're billing down a whopping $20k.
But wait... you don't get to take all that home. First of all, you need liability insurance and professional errors & ommissions insurance. That is, unless you feel like going bankrupt when someone trips over the bag you left in the middle of the floor and gets brain-damage from hitting their head on a table.
There's also health insurance, which you have the honor of paying for yourself. And self-employment taxes to uncle sam. And an extra phone line. And that new laptop, external hard drive, copies of Quickbooks, Acronis True Image, etc.. etc.. etc..
In fact, it's quite common for independent consultants to "take home" only 50% of what they "make".
And anyway, if you're any good, you're worth more than $20 / hr. Take a hint from the plumbers and electricians... $80/hr+ is really what you need to be thinking.
And if someone complains about $80, tell them to call up "Geeks on Call" or "Geek Squad". Geek Squad doesn't show up for less than $160 guaranteed.
-R
Price for Tech Support (Score:2, Informative)
1. Standard rate: $60/hour cash plus asshole tax. With tax, my rates have varied between $60 to $200 an hour.
If I am working on the cash rate, I give a written estimate of the hours needed in writing, along with a very specific layout of what is involved, including the hardware budget.
For prices of hardware equipment, I specify the client purchases it, and I use NewEgg and a local supplier when possible for pricing. I never say "2 NICs and a switch" in an estimate; rather, I say "2 Intel model this and that gigabit NICs" and "a Netgear model such and such gigabit switch". If the client insists on using what I consider old POS equipment, I explain the value of using quality equipment up front; if I can't convince the client, I either boost my tax rate or walk away.
Typically I will eat the cost of excess time up to 20% of the hourly estimate (if I say 10 hours, I will work to 12 hours if needed for the cost of 10), at which time we need to discuss further options. If I finish early, the client only pays for the time worked, not the estimate (estimate 10 hours, work takes 6, client pays for 6).
I typically break down a job estimate into small stages; at the completion of each stage, the client must agree that the work performed is to their satisfaction. Once the client is satisfied a stage is complete and pays me for that stage, I then start on the next stage. Final payment is due within two weeks of job completion. Each stage is spec'd out to an amount I would not cry over losing if the client decides to stiff me.
For those people that balk at my cash rate (where ever asshole tax takes it), my standard response is "I am not trying to be competitive in the marketplace; rather, this is value I place on the leisure time I give up to fix your problem".
2. If I know you or work with you (and presumably like you), I will perform a _single_ computer related task in exchange for feeding me and my wife.
Meals have ranged from home cooked meals (preferred) to local BBQ joints, to a cafeteria blue plate special; nothing fancy required, but the effort must be made.
Single tasks have included things like "get my computer sound working", "make my computer play Blue's Clues again like it used to", and "please install AV software and a firewall on my new computer". I am not near as picky about things in writing, and often can find something surplus at home that does the trick, but the person feeding me pays for any hardware involved.
That's my system; hope it helps...
Re:Yes Yes Yes (Score:3, Informative)
You know, it's funny: I've noticed the opposite effect. Now mind you, I was doing work when I was young.
If I fixed someone's computer for free, if something messed up later it was my fault. My advice was also completely ignored, as I was not "knowledgable."
If I charged a little for my services, I would indeed be beholden to them for outrageous demands ($10 to fix a computer turned into a complete re-installation, a 2-hour hardware isolation job [bad power supply, as it turned out], and recovering all their old data. Thanks, mom!)
I found, however, when I charged enough, things were different. At $60/hr they want you to get in and get out with fixing whatever it is. They take your advice very seriously, as they don't want to pay for you to come around again.
As a nice side-effect, it also makes them revise their rhetoric. Funny how they "have to have" X, but when you quote them $100 to get that done it suddenly becomes much less important.
You see a similar thing in business: waiters in a cheap restaurant get abused a lot more than waiters in an expensive restaurant. If you're asked to consult on a project, demand a very high fee or your advice won't be taken seriously.
The exception to this rule is family, of course. They're often indignant that you would even conceive of charging them money for something as trivial as 8 hours of your time (and frustration. Since I've worked only on Mac and Linux now for about 5 years, working on Windows is torture). So I did the only thing I could: I converted the problem (my mother) over to a Mac. I've yet to get woken up in the morning with a tech support problem since I did that.
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, this isn't true. A standard part of a corporate vendor relationship is giving your client information, such as your EIN. For your information, they are legally required to file a 1099 with the IRS covering all payments that they made to you in any year where the total exceeded $600. To file that 1099 they need either your SSN if you're an individual/dba, or your EIN if you're a corporation. Its not just standard practice, its the law. This filing can be waived for some forms of corporations, but not all of them.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know where you live, but where I live, it's not that difficult. To be a sole proprieter, all I have to do , is charge for my services. As long as I am not selling a tangible good, I do not have to worry about sales tax. If any hardware or software needs to be purchased, I make a reccomendation to the customer on what they need to buy, and where they can buy it from. This works out nice. The reseller is getting the sale and has to charge and pay the state taxes, and I get refferal business from the reseller. I then have a spread sheet on my PC that I use to print invoices. Once the invoice is paid, i save a copy for when I file my personal income taxes. I then I writr off a portion of my mortgage/utilities/car insurance/mileage/etc. as business expenses. Running a legal business, does not have to be that difficult, as long as you keep it small.
In case any one is wondering:
Family and close friends I don't charge
Home users I charge $20.00/hour,
Businesses, I charge $65/hour plus travel expenses. I'm not looking to get rich, I'm just looking to support my own hardware habit.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:2, Informative)
If you make under (don't quote me) 2K a year then you don't have a business according to the IRS, you have a hobby.
-nB
Re:Don't involve yourself with home users (Score:3, Informative)
The BOFH would electrocute you pansies and laugh while doing it.
The same misanthropic personality that drives so many of us to become geeks, sitting in basements playing D&D or celebrating when troublesome code finally compiles does not translate well into a capitalist, opportunistic state of mind. While we're all too happy to spawn camp somebody anonymously over the internet, ruining his evening of fun (everybody has done it or something analogous, be honest ;) very few of us can stand up to people in the real world.
I worked in PC repair for 9 agonizing months dealing with the entire spectrum of customer attitudes. Aside from being a geek, my hobbies include weight lifting, (I wish I were a competent) amateur boxer, and debate. I found it VERY easy to deal with all the customers except the ones who refused to get upset and leave. Mind you, I was asked for a business card at least once a day and regularly given glorious compliments for my service and knowledge, but when people acted like asses, I told them to cough up the cash or find a lawyer.
We made an agreement. The customers sign it. If they have a legitimate complaint, I will always deal with it and make sure they're satisfied. I was paid to repair computers, not listen to people bitch at me. I told a few that if they expected me to stand their and listen to their nagging, I was going to bill them for my time. If I was in the clear and they were asses, I invited them to find a lawyer. I never touched a single machine until I had their signature on the service agreement. Never got a phone call from a lawyer, either.
If you really put an effort into developing a great customer base, each good customer is worth at least 3 nasty customers. Good customers will tell their friends (probably good people as well) and nasty customers will tell their friends (and you're probably better off without their business as well.)
So my advice to anyone who is still working in PC repair - take a cue from the BOFH. You can be damn sure HE wouldn't be harassed by a moronic customer, and you can be damn sure he wouldn't feel bad about charging for his excellent services.
Re:Market vs. Cost (Score:2, Informative)
I know how to fix a car, thanks to countless hours of being forced to help my dad fix his cars while i was growing up, but i do not choose to work on cars professionally. If a friend asks me to help change his oil then i'm not going to charge him what he would pay for an oil change any where else. Instead i'm going to help him out and know that when i need a ride someplace he isn't going to charge me what a taxi would.
The problem with comparing computer repair to plumming is that there are far more people these days who have a basic working knowledge of computers than there are who have the same knowledge of plumming. This large supply of computer knowledge drives down the price of applying that knowledge.
Also if you had to pay to replace all the plumming in your house, or if you had to pay to replace your car, then you would be talking about tens of thousands of dollars, so you are willing to pay $60/hour to maintain them in order to prevent a major problem later. If you look at a computer the same way, and let's say that an average computer will cost two thousand dollars to completely replace (which is high as we all know), then for similar price to maintain ratio you would expect to pay no more than $6/hour.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:2, Informative)
Ha! Worked for me too!
I've already informed my folks and family too that I've performed my last windows repair call. From now on, I upgrade to Linux, or nothing at all.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:helpdesk support wants to be free (Score:2, Informative)
Basically, wear the shirt and you won't have an issue with folks asking you to fix things for free or cheaply ;)
Seriously, try this mantra I read once online: I will work for money, I will work for trade, I will work for barter, I will work for charity... but I will not work FOR FREE.