Open Source Tax Products? 719
sub7 asks: "That time of the year is upon as again: Tax Season. Those of us living in the U.S. are busy fumbling with various forms with awkward names and meaningless garble on them. Being a lazy BOFH, I went to H & R Block to see how much it would cost for them to prepare and file my taxes. They estimated -at least- $175, if not more! I knew it was cheaper to buy some software to handle my taxes. So I headed down to my local office supply conglomerate and picked up Turbo Tax 2004 Premier for $69.99. Being an OSS user for nearly 6 years I have never even considered an OSS tax solution product (probably because I ph34r t4x s34s0n!). So I turn to Slashdot to ask: Are there any projects equivalent to Turbo Tax or the other tax products out there for the OSS community?"
Aditionally... WTF???!?!?!?! (Score:4, Informative)
The site actually works flawlessly in Firefox too
Try: (Score:5, Informative)
Actually... (Score:3, Informative)
Not So Much. (Score:5, Informative)
You're not really buying programming there, you're buying a lawyer's time through proxy. All the lawyers I know bill out in six minute increments and earn every freakin' penny they make (and it's a lot of them), so I don't think you're going to be getting this kind of stuff for free. You could make the program free, but you'd still have to buy the advice.
That said, TurboTax for the Web [turbotax.com] is cheaper, works for everyone who only lived in one state this tax season, and will run in Firefox on Linux and Mac, so at least you don't have to use Windows if it's not your cup of tea.
Accountants Pay Form Themselves (Score:5, Informative)
My Tax Tools... (Score:2, Informative)
Even better yet free. (Score:4, Informative)
or
http://www.irs.go
for a complete list of freefile services
OSS rules! (Score:2, Informative)
1.0.0 - release gnuTax application with complete tax system definitions by end of 2000..
Seriously, these applications are not simple to write, and they change quite a bit, every year. Further, there's probably a certain amount of liability involved. You're better off sticking with one of the big commercial applications, or a web filing service. Hopefully they'll eventually write one in Java...
Re:Actually... (Score:3, Informative)
umm... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Just do it! (Score:3, Informative)
Support and updates (Score:3, Informative)
However, I think it is the double tranlation that is the killer. First someone needs to translate the tax code from legalese to english, then from english to code. And I'm sure it'd have to come with a big fat label saying we're not responsible if the IRS come knocking. I'm sure TurboTax isn't either, but I'm not sure I'd like to be head scapegoat of such a project...
Kjella
Re:Aditionally... WTF???!?!?!?! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Aditionally... WTF???!?!?!?! (Score:2, Informative)
The IRS states 1-2 weeks for your refund check if you e-file. If you have your refund done via direct deposit, it's even faster (5-7) days.
I e-files and got my return in about 5 days, and I had some complicated business expenses to boot.
So yea, you can 'stick it' to the IRS by snail-mail filing, but they'll stick it right back to you by keeping your money longer.
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:3, Informative)
Daniel
Re:Would you want to use an OSS tax program? (Score:5, Informative)
http://support.turbotax.com/forums/lofi
Accuracy of TurboTax Calculations. Intuit diligently works to ensure the accuracy of the calculations on every form prepared using TurboTax tax preparation software. If you are a registered user that has updated your Software with the most recent update available prior to filing your return and you pay an IRS or state penalty and/or interest solely because of a calculation error on a form prepared using the Software, and not as a result of, among other things, your failure to enter all required information accurately, willful or fraudulent omission or inclusion of information on your tax return, misclassification of information on the tax return, or failure to file an amended return to avoid or reduce an applicable penalty/interest after Intuit announced updates or corrections to the Software in time for you to file an amended return, then Intuit will pay you in the amount of the IRS or state penalty and/or interest paid by you to the IRS or state. (A "registered user" is a user who either registers his/her purchase with Intuit, or has purchased a license to use the Software directly from Intuit).
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:3, Informative)
In this environment, I think we're pretty lucky that the telefile option doesn't require us to call 1-900-HRB-FILE or something.
10 minutes of research (Score:5, Informative)
http://hrblock.com/goto/free
If you don't mind filling out your state paperwork yourself, it doesn't cost you a dime.
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:0, Informative)
http://www.irs.gov/app/freeFile/jsp/index.jsp? [irs.gov]
And if you're too rich to qualify for any of those, then you're too rich to bitch.
TurboCash - GPL and proud (Score:1, Informative)
go read the heated debates they had releasing it, but in the end OSS won
http://www.turbocash.co.za/ [turbocash.co.za]
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/turbocash/ [sourceforge.net]
so go contribute (all languages and many countries supported), its the only free open source dedicated accounting package that you can actually do buisness on
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:2, Informative)
In Japan^H^H^H^H^H Brazil... (Score:5, Informative)
In Brazil the government allways developed the program used to it. They even developed a Java version, so you could use it on linux.
They banned paper forms last year, and those who send all the data by internet have some advantages. I don't know all the functions Turbo Tax has, a government developed program can be better.
move to Australia (Score:2, Informative)
Where you can use e-tax [ato.gov.au] currently unavailable cause the tax year is July to June. The software is very good and the need for tax accountants is dwindling.
Re:Anybody with half a clue... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:3, Informative)
This is exactly what Inland Revenue has done in the UK. They have their own web application that you can fill in online, in addition to allowing you to upload your returns from the commercial software packages. I guess if your tax situation is remotely complex, the commercial packages will still make life much easier, but for simple PAYE, you don't need much more than the online forms.
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:3, Informative)
Go to the IRS website. They've got a bunch of "partners" that will e-file your taxes for free. My federal return last year was free through a link to H&R Block's website from the IRS website. I still had to pay for my state return, though. But the return check more than made up for it.
Re:Anybody with half a clue... (Score:3, Informative)
For Mac users, MacInTouch [macintouch.com] has info about these services as well as info about US and Canadian tax software for the Mac.
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:4, Informative)
This is totally fucked up, but completely true.
Re:Actually... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:4, Informative)
Replacing the income tax with a sales tax would makes people less willing/able to buy things, which would mean less income for the corporations that sell those things. Given the amount of influence corporations have on the US government, the chances of such a reform passing seem slim.
Re:Let me guess... no budget. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:umm... (Score:5, Informative)
Let's see, there are 11 projects found. Let's go through them:
Open Tax Solver: "Tax preparation software for use in the US, Canada, and UK". Okay, this looks like it might be promsing. But the fact that they are trying to do more than one country in the same product makes me question it a bit at least. And I'm not sure if using beta tax software is the best idea.
Canadian Payroll: "Calculates Canadian payroll taxes". Completely useless for (most) individuals, unless Canada's payroll taxes work differently than the US and the employees have to calculate it.
Payroll Perl Modules: "A Perl API for calculating payroll taxes". See above; not what is needed.
gTaxEstimator: "Tax preparation software". Okay, holds some promise, but do you really want to use a program called gTaxEstimator for something you can be sent to prison for if you screw up too badly?
reTax: Not what is needed; it calculates sales tax.
PHP Mortgage Calculator: Not what is needed
See-Commerce: Not even close to what is needed
MX Cart: Even further away from what is needed
Vista Nova osCommerce: Not what is needed
UCan: "Performs conversions of interest to travelers between the US and Canada." Not even close to what is needed.
PTax98: Oh, good, a program that will help you with 1998 taxes.
Anyway, none of these programs at least advertise features that are even close to what a commercial tax program does. None even say that they can do electronic submission.
So I call that link a red herring.
Do you want FREE (BEER) or do you want OSS ? (Score:5, Informative)
The federal government has forms online and they also have a "Free File" for eligible taxpayers which is nearly everybody. Check out www.irs.gov [irs.gov] for the site and a link to a variety of supported vendors who will e-file you for free using web-based forms.
I like www.taxact.com [taxact.com] -- they are among the federal "Free File" vendors so you can use them for free and have the Fed gov't pay for it - just make sure you start at the www.irs.gov website or you'll have to pay for it. You can file the state with TaxAct for about $10 more but realize that MOST states (like IL where I live) have online FREE tax filing as well at their state websites.
However, if you're like me and want to do it at home instead of on the web for free, you can purchase TaxAct's fed and state for use at home for $20. Their software is very easy to use and asks you simple questionaire to make sure you get all your deductions. Additionally, TaxAct isn't as bloated and is not filled with crapware (like nasty DRM that writes to your root sector on your HD) like the other major vendors have done in the past. I don't work for or have any relation to taxact, but I do like them compared to other products and I would recommend them for people who want the actual program at home versus the FREE (BEER) solutions above.
The free online products allow you to file your taxes, guarantee accuracy of computations (not accuracy of what you enter OF COURSE!), print out your taxes for a personal copy, and verify their online filing. If you need a program, you can spend $20 for a fully guaranteed tax suite and save over the $175 or $69.99 charges mentioned in the post.
I paid $700 to have my taxes prepared: worth it! (Score:3, Informative)
This year, I hired an accountant (and EA: someone why has worked within the IRS previously in a return-related way for five years), paid $700, and definately got my money's worth: he found about $600 in extra refunds that even I, in my pennypinching, hacker-scheeming, diligence missed. (Of course, I expected this level of work, even though the extra refund was a pleasant surprise).
A good tax accountant will provide a 30 to 60 minute consultation session for free that will give you an idea if it is worthwhile to retain their services.
In my case, I'd already researched a bunch of strategies that I thought would work, but they involved the use of tax treaties. I was over my head in tax legaleese and nomenclature, and I needed someone to refute or verify what I though, and get the i's dotted and t's crossed to make sure I filed correctly.
The federal government doesn't exactly pay for it. (Score:3, Informative)
Essentially the IRS said that industry had to come up with a way to make it largely free or else they WERE going to come out with a universal solution. And industry said ok.
It's a nearly perfect example of this kind of cooperation between government and the free market.
Re:umm... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Switzerland (Score:1, Informative)
The gouvernement provides this software for free, because it saves them a lot of work and money by avoiding to go through hand-written and often wrong filled paper forms.
Re:Don't Do it! (Score:3, Informative)
The CPA is always, ALWAYS the better approach. Not only do they get you more money back (if you choose), but they know exactly how to work the deductions, so you pay the least amount necessary to meet your tax obligations. They also look longer-term, vs. how H&R block looks to you as a McDonalds customer: "Next!"
Also, the CPA is responsible for defending you, or them, in court, if there is ever a discrepancy with your taxes. H&R block doesn't, because they're not legally accountants.
Big difference, and if you make close-to or over 6-figures, have children, own a home, or many other things (I was able to deduct a significant portion of my home and expenses due to my Free Software work, for example; H&R block wouldn't even know to ask), H&R block can do a LOT more damage than a properly-qualified CPA.
Re:This dpesn't seem likely (Score:3, Informative)
Many of us are getting older. We have already paid income tax on our savings and investments. For the people at retirement age, a move to a consuption tax means that they pay the full tax TWICE (which would be Very unfair.)
A better solution is to just move to a fair flat tax, or simplified graduated tax, with Very few deductions. The current tax code is amazingly complicated. The tax code should be able to be summed up in 40 pages instead of 400 volumes.
To respond to the main OP, I wouldn't use H&R Block ever. The preparers are not accountants. In fact, I know one that is a warehouse worker at Walmart. My taxes are complicated - owning a small business, dealing with AMT from stock options, buying and selling real-estate, trust funds, etc. I use a CPA. We go over all the issues in detail to find all the deductions, how to deal with investments in a way that is best from a tax prespective, etc. 4They charge me $250. Why would you pay $175 for someone who is not even an accountant, much less a CPA? I know way too many people that use H&R that ended up with major tax problems due to errors. Stay far far away.
Furthermore, unless your taxes are pretty simple, I wouldn't consider doing them myself. If you just have a normal job, single, rent an apartment, don't invest, then sure! Use Turbotax or whatever. Otherwise you are better off with professional advice and service from a qualified CPA.
Free as in beer Canadian version (Score:2, Informative)
http://pacificcoast.net/~gthompson/ [pacificcoast.net]
If you have a business in Canada you may write off tax preparation fees and expenses. I don't know if non business owners can do the same.