Windows Terminal Server Replacement? 125
Evanrude asks: "In my never ending quest to eliminate the Windows operating system from my life, I have yet to find a Linux replacement for the Windows Terminal Server product/service. I have come across the Linux Terminal Server Project but from everything I have read about it, you must boot a diskless workstation to use it, there is no client to connect to it from say a remote workstation [read: internet or remote VPN client]. There is also the Citrix Metaframe Presentation Server for Unix, but I am really looking for something that will run on Linux. I have also googled for anything related to Linux and the Remote Desktop Protocol, but have not had good luck. Has anyone had any experience with replacing a Windows Terminal Server with something Linux based or know of any other projects that might be more on track with this than the LTSP?"
Hrmm... (Score:3, Informative)
Are you looking for something besides that?
Re:Hrmm... (Score:2)
Re:Hrmm... (Score:2)
Re:Hrmm... (Score:1, Informative)
I still use X most of the time though. I don't really care for VNC but I use it when I have to.
There is that NX client stuff too (lightweight X protocol).
Re:Hrmm... (Score:2)
Is Sun still pumping their Java thin clients? That had session disconnect/reconnect ability. It wasn't free, but it seemed to be a pretty nice setup.
Re:Hrmm... (Score:2)
Re:Hrmm... (Score:3, Informative)
In situations where you need to disconnect/reconnect, then I remember seeing something that when you're at the console logging in, you'd define what X11 screen you're connecting to, then run a vnc server on that X11 session. You'd be able to run dozens of servers on different sessions, then simply vnc to the one you want. Want that encrypted? ssh tunnel the vnc session.
Now what I'm curious about but have never tried is a combination of
Re:Hrmm... (Score:2)
But, I can agree with you on the Thin Client software. I think they could open up a new market by selling the software. The Sun Thin clients are nice, but sometimes it feels like they are missing something.
I think the product you're looking for (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:4, Interesting)
More to the point, everyone here seems to be saying "just use the built-in networking of X11." This is all well and good, but let me elaborate on what I was looking for when I was researching this myself (again, I can't speak for the submitter.)
Using X over SSH and Cygwin and all that was simple enough, but the functionality I couldn't achieve with it was the ability to "detach" my X session and "re-attach" it from another machine, essentially meaning the X session was permanent and the client connections to it would come and go. Is there a way to do this via the tools you're recommending?
VNC does provide this, but what it doesn't provide is the level of "desktop integration" found in WTS. That is, suppose I copy something in one, I can't paste it in the other. Moving files back and forth, etc. has the same limitations. The 2 GUI sessions basically have no knowledge of each other's existance. Again, is there a way to achieve this with the tools you're recommending?
I'm not trolling or anything, I'm honestly looking for the ideal solution for my own networking needs. I was basically looking for a setup like "screen" on my xterm, but for the whole GUI session. WTS does this beautifully on my XP box, but so far I'm only using VNC on my Linux box.
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:5, Informative)
NX compresses the X protocol and works some magic so it's usable over even slow links (9600bps even, apparantly). NoMachine has a free client available for download.
It can save your desktop too.
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:3, Informative)
2) Start Cygwin X Server
3) Run a local window manager (the scripts are pretty much set up to do this out of the box)
4) Open an xterm
5) ssh to your remote server
6) type in xclock &
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
Kinda like what Screen and VNC do - just need the ability for doing this with one app instead of a whole desktop like NX/VNC do
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:4, Informative)
If you want to move a single application back and forth across displays, you're looking for xmove [debian.org].
FYI (Score:2)
I forget why, but that's the way it is.
Re:FYI (Score:2)
-X (uppercase) enables X11 forwarding.
-x (lowercase) disables X11 forwarding.
-Y enables trusted X11 forwarding.
Trusted means that the "auth cookie" from the local X11 server is transfered to the ~/.Xauthority file on the remote machine, so that remote clients will present the cookie to the server when connecting and be trusted. This is analogous to the ancient "xhost +remote" method but much more secure and robust. See "man Xsecurity" and "man xauth".
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
X is a network hog, and the slightest network issue will completely fuck your X sessions. RDP is a great protocol.
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
Re:I think the product you're looking for (Score:2)
VNC server is a solution (Score:3, Informative)
Re:VNC server is a solution (Score:1)
Re:VNC server is a solution (Score:1)
Re:VNC server is a solution (Score:2)
Re:VNC server is a solution (Score:3, Informative)
Each VNC session gets its own kdm (in my systems case) login and own X desktop. A quick look shows only one "X" process running and a "Xvnc" p
Re:VNC server is a solution (Score:2)
X server (Score:2, Informative)
nx/free nx (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nomachine.com/
You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:2)
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:1)
A couple minutes to install the server. Even handles file transfers. Doesn't require a client (just connect through your web browser).
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:2)
With VNC, you only get 1 per launched server.
So you'd need to do something that would grab the connection start a new VNC server and hand the display to that client.
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:2)
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:1)
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:1)
Tim
Re:You just want an RDP Client, right? (Score:5, Informative)
KDE (Score:2, Informative)
krdc and krfb claim to be RDP and VNC compatible.
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/krdc
h
FreeNX? (Score:4, Informative)
I honestly haven't gotten around to trying to compile and install the mess of little packages [nomachine.com] that make up the free sources for the FreeNX [nomachine.com] server and client, but combined with X's "built in" network transparency it may do what you need. (NoMachine sells licenses for a pre-built commercial version of the server and appears to have some binary downloads for clients as well.)
X11 itself already has mechanisms built in (for quite a long time now) to handle remote "terminal server" type connections, but by themselves they're really only suited to being used over a LAN. For "remoter" access (e.g. over the internet) FreeNX supposedly adds the functionality that you need to do this.
(Anybody want to comment on their experiences getting FreeNX installed and configured?)
As other posters have suggested, X-over-SSH is also an option, and is more likely to be more or less built-in for whatever distribution of Linux you're using. Linux systems should have the necessary capability to do this built in, and you can get the same functionality for Microsoft's Windows via installation of CygWin [cygwin.net] X11 and OpenSSH packages.
VNC is a third option, though I gather it doesn't work quite as well for this sort of thing as FreeNX or X11-over-SSH does.
Re:FreeNX? (Score:3, Interesting)
I use DXPC to get into my box at home from work and it's very useable, definately better than VNC over the same connection. They'll even make X tolerable over a modem but highly graphical apps will still take a hit.
X11-over-SSH clarification... (Score:2)
Just realized I should clarify that in this part I mean the capability to be a "terminal" - to USE X11 over SSH to run a remote X11 session. Cygwin's X11 packages theoretically should also be able to serve connections from remote terminals as well, but only for X11/Cygwin applications, you can't run "Microsoft Word" (for
Re:FreeNX? (Score:3, Informative)
http://fedoranews.org/contributors/rick_stout/fre
I just used the precompiled RPM's for fedora. Using FreeNX is definately a good replacement. I use it on my iBook to connect to my Linux Desktop at work via ssh and nothing more.
It's fast as hell too! Definately usable via dialup.
Re:FreeNX? (Score:2)
X over SSH is not an option. X sucks over the WAN, and graphical apps tend to be practically unusable for any length of time. Plus, you don't get your entire desktop, which is what the submitter wants.
A fully functioning RDP server for Linux would be awesome, however.
Re:FreeNX? (Score:1)
Sure you do... if you want it. The components that make up the desktop are just X applications like any other.
Re:FreeNX? (Score:2)
It's called Linux (Score:2)
All you need is an account on the *nix server, you can then login to it and run whatever programs you want, remotely. X11 has inbuilt networking support so you can display the program locally while running the 'compute' bit on the server.
You don't really explain why you need a WTS type system, other than to replace one. Perhaps you should look at what you are trying to a
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
Huh? Did you miss the last ten years or something?
Windows 9x was not a true multiuser OS, but Windows NT/2000/XP/2003 is, and always has been, a multiuser OS. It was designed to be so from the start.
"X11 has inbuilt networking support so you can display the program locally while running the 'compute' bit on the server."
Yes, but X11 isn't like Windows Terminal Services. XDMCP is closer to what the poster wants, but it's not quite the same
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
A multi-user OS means that I can log in several times on the same computer at the same time. And that multiple users can log on at the same time from different places.
To the best of my knowledge you really can't do this properly in WinXP with utils such as Remote Desktop. It may very well be possible but they haven't exactly gone out of their way to draw atte
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
This [sig9.com] allows you to have up to two sessions on at once (for free). If you want more (for $$$) with Windows XP, try WinConnect Server XP [thinsoftinc.com]
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
The GUI is not the only service that a computer can use to provide logins. Every version of NT has the basic OS support for mulitple users, if the service they are connecting to supports them.
Notably, the Windows GUI didn't support remote sessions until NT4.0 Terminal Server (or 3.51 with Citrix), but connections to other services like file s
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
Re:It's called Linux (Score:2)
There's a difference. In a non-WTS/Citrix environment more than one person can NOT use the O/S. More than one process owned by more than user can run, but one physical user has control over the keyboard etc. Yes with w2k theres a telnet daemon but you can't run proper windows programs via this method (only CLI stuff).
The Citrix stuff (either full or cut down with WTS) gives Windows that
Windows or Linux ? (Score:1)
Any chance of a bit more information... (Score:1)
Like, what you want to do with your "Linux terminal server session" once you've got it? Also, how many users are we talking about. It might be that something as simple as running vncserver as a service with desktops started for a few users might be what you want, or you might want something a bit more complicated
It really sounds like... (Score:2)
Looks like he just wants to run Windows Terminal Services under Linux. How would he do this?
Re:It really sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:It really sounds like... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:It really sounds like... (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, FreeNX is what you actually want to fool with. Deb's here (or they used to be here anyway):
deb http://www.freedesktop.org/~mornfall/debian/ experimental main
You in theory can configure x0rfbserver on top of the FreeNX X server too, so you could have a user log off of an NX session, then access it later over VNC or standard X or whatever.
Re:It really sounds like... (Score:1)
Re:It really sounds like... (Score:2)
What are you trying to accomplish ? (Score:2)
Usually you don't have a terminal service just for the sake of it but for accessing some kind of application or the other.
If this application is a Windows-only app then the answer is: No, you cannot replace the server by something Unixy, but certainly you can use Linux or something else as a (thin) client as many in this thread have suggested.
If the app also runs on *ix or has appropriate replacements t
Re:What are you trying to accomplish ? (Score:2)
Usually you don't have a terminal service just for the sake of it but for accessing some kind of application or the other.
That's a very un*x-eye view of things. There are plenty of companies connecting large numbers of thin terminals to TS or Citrix servers to run their entire desktop, just because of the intrinsic benefits of thin clients (simpler maintenance, easier to tie down).
Others have mentioned specific benefits of TS, which include persistent sessions and local printers. Another advantage I not
What about sound? (Score:1)
Is there any way to get full sound support when connecting remotely to your (flavor of) unix server? Preferably a free/open solution...
-supertux
Re:What about sound? (Score:2)
KDE's ARTS has network transparency built into it, and because of the way it uses named pipes in each user's home dir it can work with remote sound hardware. I have never had any success getting it to work reliably but I have heard others have while I was Googling for an answer.
There is also NAS that has Windows compatibility but is (AFIK) more difficult to configure and use on a per-user/per-login basis. I'm sure it's possible to do, again I gave up and went for ARTS, which sort of does work. NA
Trying to set that up now... (Score:3, Interesting)
kdm claims that it will respond to XDMCP requests when the proper config options are set, but I have not yet been able make that part happen. So for now all I get is a grey-crosshatch default X background and mouse pointer that doesn't have anything to click on.
Re:Trying to set that up now... (Score:2)
The kdmconfig tool also lets you enable XDMCP. Remember to allow XDMCP into your firewall from trusted machines as well; don't want to block it.
You probably want hosts.allow as well to make kdm accept connections from hosts - but I don't know... I never had to do that.
Re:Trying to set that up now... (Score:2)
The kdm config file is ${kde_dir}/share/config/kdm/kdmrc, and in the [xdmcp] section I have set enabled=true, which should do it from everything I've read, yet it doesn't.
Re:Trying to set that up now... (Score:2)
I don't know how it works with VNC, because I have been using a real X server on the remote end...
VNC, X over SSH, or OpenVPN (Score:2)
I have documented this (Score:2)
You can run that on top of a regular Linux distro, or if you also need thin clients you can add this to an LTSP server.
FREENX - it does that - whatever that is. (Score:4, Interesting)
FreeNX does a new connection for each user on the fly.
It allows printer, file and sound sharing.
It works over SLOW connections.
It is cross platform.
It allows you to disconnect from a session and rejoin later.
It has a commercial version if you want support.
I can be used to connect a single app instead of a desktop.
If it doesn't do what you want then neither does Terminal Services.
does it have to be free? (Score:2, Informative)
we use it here (version 2 tho) and it works fine. you can be doing your thing, go to lunch, leave your apps running, come back (to another client even), and your apps are right there for you
If you're trying to get away from Windows... (Score:2)
Re:If you're trying to get away from Windows... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If you're trying to get away from Windows... (Score:2)
That's one way. But there are better ways.
I don't know a lot about modeling software -- but if it uses an X GUI than you should be able to run it remotely without going through a terminal server. You'd need a good network and a good local workstation, but no more so than you'd need to run a terminal server. Indeed, I think the network overhead would be rather less.
Re:If you're trying to get away from Windows... (Score:2)
Sun Rays, Citrix, and Tarantella (Score:4, Informative)
For whatever reason Citrix does not seem to want to make a Linux version of MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX. For those who think X11 is good enough try running it over a dial-up line sometime. Suddenly MPSU looks a lot better (it's also better than e.g. using Exceed on a Windows box on a LAN).
However, one of Citrix's competitors does support Linux. Have you looked into Tarantella [tarantella.com]? Might be what you are looking for.
Wine Bug Report 2685 - Terminal server under Wine (Score:1)
Eliminating MS Windows from your life (Score:2)
VNC Client (Score:2)
Using scroll bars to navigate around my remote desktop is a pain. I'd rather it was just shrunken into a smaller window, but you only seem to be able to do this on windows client->linux server, not vice versa.
I am also open to alternative windows server/linux client remote desktop solutions.
Re:VNC Client (Score:1)
vncserver -geometry WIDTHxHEIGHT
Seriously, that's the way to do it.
Scaling would either look awful without anti-aliasing or suck up lots of CPU time with anti-aliasing.
I did this for a school project (Score:2, Interesting)
Xvnc
Kde
Svncviewer (modified tightvnc java applet / program with ssl and thiner interface)
And optionally for ssl encryption (server side)
stunnel
And optionally for large systems
ldap / sasl for authentication
And optionally for internet access
Apache serving the svncviewer
And Optionally for network boot terminals
pxes
This allows a cheap low bandwidth internet or network boot terminal environment with linux. If you need some windows applications you can run wine (or a varient
Great Howto Courtesy of Gentoo Forums (Score:2, Informative)
VNC, but with XDM/GDM support instead (Score:2)
When I had to jump around from building to building in order to support developers using my software I worked out a solution that I was very happy with. I didn't
XDMCP (Score:1)
I'm not sure if you want to connect linux--linux or not, but assuming you do, it's all built in.
All the computers here in my home and in my office are basic, basic installs of debian. Open gdm, pick 'xdmcp chooser', and you'll get to see all (1) computers serving X. So, we all have homedirs and applications on the one box.
It's not the lightest client since each box has a local OS on a local drive, but it's plenty good enough. Maintenance and DR are a breeze...
And for those still reading... (Score:2)
Before all the trolls and flames kick in do allow me to illuminate my thread a little here.
Recently a client asked if it was possible to provide their corporate accounts package to their clients in a mechanism that enabled the software and data to reside at corporate head offices whilst clients accessed them remotely over the internet.
I investigated Citrix, Windows Terminal Services, X11 with
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
Try X11 as a built from the ground up to be both local and remote for desktop and application.
Re:quest you say? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:quest you say? (Score:1)
Try NX [freshmeat.net]
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
Re:quest you say? (Score:1)
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
Re:quest you say? (Score:3, Informative)
how is this the best solution? out of the box, with a minimal *nix install i can do everything that microsoft wants tons of money for. in many cases, i don't have to pay anything for it.
there are 2 things he might be looking for:
1. thin clientish stuff
2. remote admin stuff.
for people who need thin client stuff, all they need to do is install everything on the server and then run xdmcp. people can then log in from any X server ( ie, another *nix box, a pc runnin
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
when running xdmcp with a commercial unix, be very carefull to get your dns working correctly. They don't use XFree/XOrg derived X servers, so there's no way to turn off their default behavior of trying to resolve hostnames.
Re:quest you say? (Score:3, Interesting)
We use TS here where I work so our remote sites can log in and use the central database-driven software without shooting tons of sql data acros the net. Our remote sites can use a PII 133Mhz computer to quickly process gobs of data, because the processing is happening at the server and not at their workstation. When you're
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
Re:quest you say? (Score:2)
leaving aside the fact that poster wants a Linux solution, MS TS isn't even the best solution on Windows - if it was then Citrix would have a serious dent in thier product margins.
Where I work, we looked at TS and compared it to Citrix. Compared to Citrix, TS is just a toy.