Going Beyond the 2 Week Notice? 252
rovingeyes asks: "Immediately after graduating about two and a half years ago, I joined a local website design and hosting company that was looking for software developers. But soon disaster struck. The chief developer/systems administrator left the company soon after I joined and after a month of his leaving another developer quit, which meant that I was the only developer left in the company. Now for almost 2 years I have been taking care of pretty much everything from systems administration to end-user technical support to development. And after a long time I realized that the growth potential in this company is pretty limited. So I decided to look for other jobs and immediately got multiple offers. Now my boss wants 6 weeks notice plus on call service for another 3 months at subsidized rates. Is my boss being reasonable?"
"Since I am the only developer in the company, I thought giving a 4 week notice instead of 2 would be reasonable, but this happened. Another requirement he added was the need that I be on-call if any disaster strikes with the server infrastructure. Now this is my first real job ever and I don't know how to respond to it. I normally don't outsource, even though the money is good, because I don't want to compromise my current duties. My boss knows this.
Thus this question to my fellow Slashdot readers: Is my boss being reasonable? I can understand his view point of losing the only developer/systems administrator in the company. But I don't think I am bound by any law that I should provide those kinds of services (since we have no contract in place). Should I negotiate or just ignore them? Is a burnt bridge worth it?"
Re:You are not bound by any law (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Are you mad? (Score:5, Interesting)
to the poster:
You never want to work there or for that boss again, so go nuts with it. Tell them to eat you. They did the same thing during your time there and with this request. If you already have other things lined out don't even give the boss two weeks (unless you have accrued vacation, then take that for pay). If they say anything other than "rehirable" to a future employer sue them (hehe, ok that may be going overboard.)
I have been in a similar situation and as long as you have something lined up, the rest doesn't matter.
More important than bending over and taking it is not to complain about it at your next job. The last thing new management/coworkers want to hear about is how crappy your last boss was. It makes you look bad and not them.
Don't do it (Score:3, Interesting)
As for having them be able to call you in to fix anything that might go wrong, don't do it.
Just as an example of what can go wrong, a friend of mine got a job at an upstart company about a year and a half ago, and basically built their entire IT infrastructure. When the company started doing really well, the owner started making some really bad decisions, and my friend decided to get out before the entire company collapsed. Anyway, the owner asked her to do something similar, and she agreed.
Not too long after that, they called her and wanted to know if she could make some minor changes to their file server (IIRC it was just changing some permissions). Anyway, she went in over the next couple of weeks for minor things, and never was paid for her time, she'd basically just assumed that checks were in the mail. A few months later and she'd found another job, and had cut her losses from the old company, and hadn't heard from them again, when the owner called demanding that she come make changes to their website. She basically said that she wasn't going to because it had been about 3 months since she'd quit, and had no obligation to come in, and their current IT person could do it. Well after some pestering she agreed to come in and do it, saying that she wanted paid that day. She went in and made some changes to their site, and once again the guy tried to get out of paying her. After this she decided to just take the guy to court to get the money that he owed her, and he turned around and tried to counter-sue her, saying that she'd intentionally messed stuff up in order to get called back in and charge them more money.
Although she did end up winning, and the guy had to pay all the court costs, it ended up being a big pain.
From the way you say your boss wants you to come in and be willing to do work "on the cheap" and want's you to give such a long notice, it may be possible he too is expecting to basically not higher someone else and outsource all the work to you for free.
Re:Welcome to at-will employment (Score:5, Interesting)
I know you're on my foe list, but this isn't personal, I promise.
I find your statement very strange. I've never seen a single bad reference (I hear most people fear giving a bad references for legal reasons). If you've had multiple previous bosses trash you, maybe there is something wrong with you?
Like I said, I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, but I've just never heard of someone with multiple bad references.
It makes me think of something I read in an AARP magazine (inlaw's, I hate AARP). It was an article about, "How do I know if I'm a bad driver." One thing on the list was, "Do people honk at you more than they used to."
Please don't take this as an insult. I've read a number of your recent posts and can't see how you made it on my foe list other than the one that started with a lower case letter. Sorry, I'm a nut.
See this as an opportunity (Score:3, Interesting)
In my estimation, this approach will lead to less recrimination than if you simply left them hanging. Their response clearly illustrates that you are undercompensated, and coming in with a high demand is really no more than a request that you be valued fairly. They know this, and will blame themselves, not you, if things fall through.
Re:Are you mad? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nice... a page right out of "How to make friends and influence people".
The IT industry is as incestuous as any other and burned bridges *will* come back to haunt you.
I've given as much as six months
As nice as it is to wear foil hats, at some point you just have to admit you have a fetish. A lack of backbone is great in a lackey but is horrid any step further up the corporate ladder.
Legally.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Get the 6 weeks and pay in writing! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Are you mad? (Score:3, Interesting)
Explain to him that being the only developer, underpaid, at a startup was an abuse of the investors' money and that you're willing to keep quiet about that if he's willing to cut the crap. Indentured servitude went out with the 14th amendment and you already have your next job.
I've been threatened by a boss before when I left. The threat caused me to stop work right then and there and leave to start the next job I had already landed. Nothing ever happened in retaliation. Somebody was hired to replace me and finish up the work I left dangling and that's that. Unless you have children to feed and no other way of earning money, don't ever work under threat.
Re:Are you mad? (Score:4, Interesting)
Any time spent after that is typically billed at double pay and is subject to your availibility. If they need you to talk the new programmer through some stuff, they can certainly get you, but it will cost them. If they have an emergency that only you can fix, they'd better hope it's when you can attend to it. I've even had friends negotiate quadruple time (from the original rate) for anything after 1am and holidays.
This will make them think twice about calling you for something frivolous, and it gives you a good incentive to go back and help them. It will also keep them from doing this stupid shit again. If you're going to run with an indispensible employee, then you'd better have some contingency plans for when they leave -- and you'd better treat them like they are indespensible, happy employees don't go looking for work.
Bottom line, and others have said it, this guy fucked up. Now he wants you to cover his fuckup and do it on the cheap. You're under no obligation to do so. If he was a decent employer I'd certainly give him enough notice to find a new employee and get some knowledge transfer and I'd leave him with plenty of documentation on how to run things in your absence. What I wouldn't do is give him so much time that it puts my new job in jeopardy or give him extra time at anything below ordinary contractor rates. You're under no obligation to do anything other than say, "here's my two weeks notice."
Re:Welcome to at-will employment (Score:1, Interesting)
Everytime we've fired someone, their access cards have been taken immediately and they've been watched every moment until they left the building. Awkward, to say the least.
Our environment gives us better reason to do that than most others, but it seems to be the same just about everywhere.
Re:Are you mad? (Score:5, Interesting)
They lived up to their end, even during rough times, so most employees lived up to theirs, even though none of it was enforceable.
Ultimately, a lot of it depends on what the new place wants. If they want you in four weeks, that's where your loyalty lies now, not to your old boss.
Don't be a weenie, but look out for your own (Score:2, Interesting)
If your boss doesn't agree with your compromises, indicate that he had two years to get someone up to speed, and, since the company could have released you at any time without warning, 2 weeks is generous.
On another tack, I've never left a position without giving my current employer a chance to meet my new offer's pay and _conditions_. Just remember that if your boss DOES meet the new job's offer, he's going to be looking to get rid of you down the road. He's the boss, and it will not sit well with him that you got the upper hand.
Get it in writing, no matter how you decide to handle it.
Re:Get the 6 weeks and pay in writing! (Score:3, Interesting)
For references:
Get a buddy at another employer to call your current boss and ask for a reference. That way you'll know what kind of references the guy is giving.