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BitTorrent Inherently Illegal? 857

Nohbdy001 asks: "Today I received a letter from my university's network administration advising me that my network access would be terminated due to 'illegal P2P activity.' The P2P activity that the e-mail cited was BitTorrent and the file being transferred was an update to the Azureus BitTorrent client. The letter stated, 'Until the courts decide that student P2P activity is permitted we will continue to block this activity on our network,' implying that BitTorrent is inherently illegal. It seems such misunderstandings are common, but it is particularly frustrating when coming from people in the IT field. How can a student respond to such an accusation in order to defend the validity of BitTorrent and continue to benefit from its legitimate uses?"
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BitTorrent Inherently Illegal?

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  • It's unfortunate (Score:5, Insightful)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:31PM (#12049383)
    I don't have any advice in particular. It's unfortunate because this really amounts to censorship and stifling academic freedom. Who's to say that the content you're accessing with a network tool - say, even a web browser - is appropriate? Sure, you can say that downloading pirated software or movies is inappropriate, but, in my opinion, academic institutions should have as hands-off an approach as possible. Illegal content can be accessed via the web, or email. Most would say it's absurd to suggest blocking port 80, or port 25. Why? Why is that any more absurd than blocking something such as BitTorrent, especially as BitTorrent's legitimate applications are increasing?

    During the heyday of Napster, the University of Wisconsin - Madison had a difficult decision. As it watched the traffic for Napster consume over 70% of total inbound bandwidth at its peak, we asked ourselves: do we start blocking Napster? After all, it's mostly used for stealing music. Right?

    Fortunately, the answer was a resounding "No," but not because we condoned illegally downloading copyrighted material. It was because the university didn't want to become de facto censors of information, in any form it may come. We decided that things like Napster were part of the cost of doing business as a major public research university. The solution was to add bandwidth, and deal with the technical aspects of the problem separate from any social aspects that may exist.

    Granted, some smaller institutions might not have been able to afford - economically or legally - to take this stance. But the University of Wisconsin felt it important enough to allow academic freedom and freedom of exchange of information to trump any other potential concerns, real or imagined.

    The university does respond on an individual basis to people clearly running warez servers, owned machines used for warez, specific C&D orders or other notices from copyright holders, etc., but we don't take a proactive approach. In fact, ironically, a proactive approach could be more dangerous, because it may mean that safe harbor provisions of some elements of copyright law (e.g. DMCA) won't apply: an ISP can't be held responsible for things it doesn't know about.
  • by LokieLizzy ( 858962 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:32PM (#12049393)
    No more than any other piece of open-source software out there.
  • Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cdrudge ( 68377 ) * on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:32PM (#12049400) Homepage
    Did you send a reply back stating, or better yet actually showing, legitimate uses? Game patches, legal multimedia distribution (Red vs. Blue for example), and so forth...
  • Easy question: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:32PM (#12049401) Homepage Journal
    Ask them what you were doing that was possibly illegal. If they can not name any possible source of infringment, you might be able to do something. As for all file sharing being illegal, point out to them that a webserver (such as the universities webserver) along with google does essentially the same thing.
  • by IonPanel ( 714617 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:33PM (#12049405) Homepage
    Although a P2P application may not be illegal, the department providing your computing services has decided they don't want to allow you to use a P2P application on their network.

    Although their reasoning may be questioned - it is their network, and you are probably going to just have to put up with it.
  • This is insane (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:34PM (#12049435)
    From the post, "Until the courts decide that student P2P activity is permitted we will continue to block this activity on our network." What has happened to my country? I now have to wait for a court to decide if something is legal before I do it? I remember when the general idea was, "if it's not illegal, then it's legal."

    "P2P" means "person to person". So now I need to wait for permission from a court before I can communicate with other people?

    When will this end? When everyone is in jail? When everyone has left the US because it's not safe to live here anymore? When the US economy collapses because we need "opinion letters" and court rulings before we can communicate with our friends?

  • by flynt ( 248848 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:35PM (#12049436)
    Sorry, it's their network, and you signed up to use it. You have to play by their rules. In a university setting, the goal should be to promote academic research, and unless administrators see BitTorrent as helping (I don't know whether it does or not), they will probably regulate it. If you have a legitimate academic need for the client, it might be allowed. You'd also probably be surprised about how much p2p traffic there is (music/movies) on campuses, and what kind of cost this incurs on the university.
  • by jacksonai ( 604950 ) <taladon@gmail.com> on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:35PM (#12049445) Homepage
    I would suggest getting a copy of the Acceptible Use Policy and any network related documents. Being familar with your University's policies can come in handy when dealing with the IT staff. Also, is it absolutely necessary to use Bit Torrent? I know it's a good thing (I use it myself to download Linspire) but the ratio of legitimate / illegitimate ussage is probably tilted pretty far one way.
  • Deal with it. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by robpoe ( 578975 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:37PM (#12049481)
    It's their network. If they dont want you using BT, then dont use BT.

    However, I'd send a letter back. State that while illegal files can and are downloaded using BitTorrent, you were just using it for legal purposes. There is no laws governing protocols at this time (as far as if they can or cannot be used).

    Also put something in there like "However I do respect that this is your network and will abide by the rules. I apologize for any issues I might have caused."

    But that's my 30something mind working.
  • by oni ( 41625 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:39PM (#12049508) Homepage
    and I can tell you that the larger issue is the amount of bandwidth used by students. Universities pay by the bit and budgets are tight. The network has two purposes: first, it is there to help with your education. second, it is a recruiting tool - nobody would want to attend a school without network access.

    But beyond that, it's an expensive utility and the school really can't afford to open it up 100%. So, they are always looking for some way to justify restricting its use. It's sad that they have basically called you a theif, but don't take it personally. They're just trying to save money. It's wrong and it sucks for you, but that's the bottom line.

    Don't worry. college is only four years, and then you can get a good job and a real internet connection. For now, just concentrate on beer and girls

    and grades of course.
  • Re:legitimate uses (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:41PM (#12049542)
    How about this?

    I am an IT student. I need to use BitTorrent to download the latest Linux distribution so as to keep my linux distro up-to-date as required by my "computer programming in linux" class at this very university. (Alternatively, "to research the differences among kernel distributions" so as to document changes, observe patches, and understand why they were necessary and how they were implemented).
  • by astrashe ( 7452 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:41PM (#12049543) Journal
    It's getting to the point where it's hard to run open source software without using bittorrent.

    I'm not saying it's impossible (that would clearly be overstating things) but more and more things are being distributed via torrents.

    I think the reaction should be that you know they have a problem (traffic and piracy on their network), but that you have a problem (there is stuff that's legal that you need torrents to get), and see if you can come to a reasonable solution.

    I would try to emphasize the direction of the trend, too. A couple of years ago, bittorrent didn't factor into downloading linux iso's very much at all. Now I think it's clearly the best way to get most things, although more traditional downloads are still available. But eventually, I wouldn't be surprised if people without torrent access have real trouble getting large legal files.

    If your school doesn't want to hamstring its students' ability to participate in open source, they'll have to open up to torrents.
  • by Homology ( 639438 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:44PM (#12049584)
    As long as you're using the school's network, you have to abide by the school's policies. If they ask you not to do it, you pretty much have to comply if you want to keep your net connection.

    It's the reason (i.e. need a court decision that P2P is legal) for not permitting P2P that is very odd, even by US standards. A policy based upon that P2P is not permitted due to excessive bandwidth usage is at least understandable.

  • by akzeac ( 862521 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:46PM (#12049603)
    Because if you're innocent, you don't need to be afraid?
    I thought the whole problem was of being thought guilty until proven innocent, now are you going to sell your right for privacy too?
  • by EnronHaliburton2004 ( 815366 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:46PM (#12049616) Homepage Journal
    The letter stated, 'Until the courts decide that student P2P activity is permitted we will continue to block this activity on our network,' implying that BitTorrent is inherently illegal.

    No, they are not implying that BitTorrent is inherently illegal. They are stating that they think BitTorrent *may* be used for illegal activities and they don't want to regulate BitTorrent traffic on their network, and are erroring on the side of caution.

    Like it or not, it is the University's network, and they administer it as they see fit. Don't like it? Tough. Use another network.

    If the MPAA finds a bunch of students pirating movies on the University network, the University will be held responsible at some level. It could become a massive headache for the Network admins, which is why they are taking this move.
  • It sucks but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:54PM (#12049716) Homepage Journal
    Hey its their network, they make the rules..

    If tomrrow they decide that slashot isnt allowed, then you lose access..

    You signed the agreement. Thats the breaks..
  • Re:Legal Precedent (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ari_j ( 90255 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:57PM (#12049741)
    The Supreme Court will soon be deciding in the Grokster case (they heard the case on March 22 or so, if I remember correctly) whether the people who make the technology can be sued for contributory copyright infringement. Even if they reverse the Court of Appeals on the issue and decide that Grokster can be held liable for contributory infringement, that doesn't make the technology itself illegal - it just means that, if the technology is used to infringe copyrights, the copyright holders can sue the company that made the technology instead of or as well as (not sure the deal on this minor point) the users who actually download copyrighted material.

    I don't know if there is precedent regarding holding a network provider, such as your university, liable for contributory copyright infringement when you use their network services to download copyrighted material without license to do so. My thought is that you bring up that it isn't illegal for the university to allow the traffic, and if they are not going to actively seek a declaratory judgment on the matter in court, they should not block the traffic on legal grounds. Moreover, their terms of service most likely proscribe copyright infringement over their network, so there is no apparent need to block the traffic, too.

    DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Any reliance you take on what I've said is just silly, and you assume the risk of taking any such reliance. I have also not played a lawyer on television or in radio plays. Any resemblance between me and a real lawyer or an actor who plays a lawyer is a mere coincidence, and even though it would be really cool to have you ask for my autograph or offer to pay me for my advice, I am not a lawyer and you are an idiot for thinking I am.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:57PM (#12049753)
    I am an IT student

    Last I checked, "IT" wasn't a major. "Computer Science" might be better.

    as required by my "computer programming in linux" class

    How many accredited four-year universities, especially state ones, even offer Linux-specific classes?

    "to research the differences among kernel distributions"

    They might go so far as to ask for proof of this needed, directly related to classes.
  • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Friday March 25, 2005 @05:58PM (#12049767) Journal
    What were you downloading? I assume it was content that should have been legal.

    If what you were downloading was something you had authorization to copy anyways, then you weren't infringing on copyright. Period.

  • Better yet... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Senjutsu ( 614542 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:02PM (#12049814)
    Send them a message asking when they'd like to meet with your lawyer to discuss their fraudulent accusations of illegal activity.

    Seeing as they don't have any evidence of such behavior, that ought to remind them that going around accusing people of committing illegal acts sans proof isn't kosher. Suspending an account because of violation of the TOS is one thing, but suspending it with an accusation of criminal behavior is a whole 'nother.
  • by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:02PM (#12049818) Homepage Journal
    I'm not certain this exact tactic will be successful, but astrashe definitely has the right solution - you need to go over their helmets, and get Faculty behind you if you're going to influence University IT policy.

    An Azureus download isn't too special, but if you can find something more "liberal" that is also being censored (try to find an indie movie exclusively on BitTorrent about lesbian aboriginal alcoholics with cancer) you'll have something to go to the Dean and school newspaper about.

    As others have mentioned, FTP and HTTP have substantial infringing uses as well.

    Now I'll plug my usual bittorrent whine about adding locality intelligence to peer selection to make BT traffic preferable and cheaper for the IT department.
  • by netruner ( 588721 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:04PM (#12049834)
    When I was doing my undergrad, I was on a judical board. Any student who felt they were unduly punished could appeal their punishment to a judicial board for decision. This kept administrators from running amok handing out nonsense punishments out of ignorance/laziness/malice.

    Our school even had a group of prelaw/political science majors that were certified by the school as "advocates" and could present your case for you. Check with your student government association and find out if such an option would be available to you. This may not solve the problem outright, but it would give you an opportunity to state the facts.

    You can't argue with ignorance, but you can go on the record with the facts.
  • by gnu-generation-one ( 717590 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:06PM (#12049858) Homepage
    Surely this is an easy one to answer. The university has accused a student, in writing, of breaking the law [wikipedia.org]

  • by knight37 ( 864173 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:06PM (#12049863) Homepage Journal
    Guess you're not playing World of Warcraft over the university network. You need P2P to patch*.

    My advice: pick a better university. One that is there to educate, not regulate.



    * yes, I realize that techinically you can disable the P2P portion of the patcher, if you want to wait forever to get you patch.
  • Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by billn ( 5184 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:06PM (#12049870) Homepage Journal
    Break it down to basic contexts: possession and ownership of a tool. A gun is a weapon, a specific type of tool. It has one primary purpose: to kill things.

    With a gun, I can:
    Rob a bank.
    Rob a person.
    Wound a person.
    Kill a person.
    Kill myself.

    However, it is perfectly legal to own, maintain, and fire a gun without committing a crime. Mere possession is not a crime.

    I don't see the difference between a piece of software and any thing else I'm permitted to own.
    If it's criminal to own a piece of software that allows users to transfer data between themselves, you've just criminalized the entire internet.

    Something that most universities seem to be exploiting is the notion that they're in control. The only reason this is possible is because the student body is formed of people straight out of one controlled institution (public or otherwise) and into another institution where they in fact have more control and freedom, but aren't really encouraged to be aware of it.

    I suggest you revisit the AUP for the dorm nets and see what rights you signed away when you signed up for service. I would also suggest looking into the existance of a student union, most especially if you're at a state funded institution. You're being punished for a crime you're not committing. This is the US, burden of proof is on the *accuser*.

    Find a BT based public art distribution. Better yet, build one. Cementing BT's use in freedom of speech will go a long way to insure it's legality.

  • Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bugnuts ( 94678 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:06PM (#12049871) Journal
    When someone tells you something they believe is true (BT is illegal) which you know is false, you cannot use logic. Simply don't argue with them or demand proof, since they can't produce any evidence that it's illegal. Besides that, the person that sent you the mail was probably not the person that made the policy, but is responsible for enforcing it.

    The only real recourse you have is to go to the dean which controls the networking group, and get a Decree From Above.

    It might've been he who implemented the policy at the behest of the networking dept, but since you're the victim, it's up to you to set him straight. Go prepared with many examples of legitimate uses of not only BT, but of other p2p applications, and even similar ones such as FTP. Show the obvious falsehoods of calling it illegal, and demonstrate the slippery slope.

    If this is a state school, the decree from above can actually come from a legislator. Write a (paper) letter and you'll probably get a response.
  • by halber_mensch ( 851834 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:08PM (#12049883)
    Universities are now run by "System CEOs" who are much more concerned with the financial and social stability of their empire than the freedom of information for what they see is a group of drunken kids looking to fill their hard drives and iPods with free music and porn. The freedoms of those lowly students to be innocent until proven guilty of stepping on the toes of their school CEO's financial buddies are the last things on the minds of the administrative staff. They want that cold hard Alumni cash and some big beefy corporate donations to rename their football fields with.

    All your stadium are belong to T. Boone Pickens, yo!

    IMHO, of course.
  • IT departments at Universities loathe CS professors. At least everyone i've ever heard of/worked at did.

    Why? Because they are COMPUTER SCIENCE professors and usually know jack and shit about networking and what it takes to keep 30,000+ computers/people running smoothly. Worse than that, alot of CS professors know a lot about a specific field (say mutlimedia) but can't keep their computers clean of spyware for the life of them.

    Last thing I would do is involve CS professors, it'll just mean you'll get ignored :)/
  • by Not_Wiggins ( 686627 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:11PM (#12049918) Journal
    Sorry, it's their network, and you signed up to use it.

    While I completely agree with this, it does wind up being quite the slippery slope. First, as a student, there is more risk and damage in losing your network connection than is going to be gained by fighting the school. You're there for, how long? Do your file trading from a home connection.

    But, that's where the "slippery slope" comes in. Today, it is a university telling you that you have to play by their rules. What happens when the telco/cable companies divy-up their holdings into a duopoly? What if there no longer is a choice in where you get your broadband (save for getting it straight from some backbone provider and paying crazy money for it)?

    And what if those same corporations decide that "such-n-such" is bad... and it doesn't even have to be P2P. "Use SBC chat, only!" "Only the IE-based browser we send you on the install disc is allowed!" or other choices get taken away.

    I'm not trying to get all Orwellian here, but there has to be a push to separate the message from the medium, otherwise we're headed into censorship city!
  • by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:11PM (#12049921)
    Hey, our chemical supply cabinets are being raided by students for the materials to make methamphetamines!

    So, to continue with your ludicrous analogy, you're saying the proper reaction of the university should be to close the chemistry lab completely?

  • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:31PM (#12050138) Homepage
    First off, IANAL. However, the person involved does probably have legal recourse. It's not libel, as some have suggested; the University is not publicly defaming the student, and it'll be hard to prove malice. However, it might be breach of contract.

    For example, in Guckenberger, et. al. V. Trustees of Boston University, et. al, they found the University liable for breach of contract simply by putting out promotional brochures claiming that the university was more accessible to the disabled than it was. In the words of the judge, they "form the basis of an enforceable contractual agreement." This is called "promissory estoppel" [laborlawtalk.com]. Basically, if someone promises something that makes you take actions to your detriment in order to gain that promise (i.e., paying to attend a university under the expectation of having full network services) and then fails to deliver, they're liable to you and you can sue for damages.

    If it's the case of a vague threat of RIAA/MPAA lawsuits that haven't materialized, faced with a very real threat of a student lawsuit, I think they might reconsider. If the student is concerned about this more than just a willingness to post an "ask slashdot", they should start a collection among similarly concerned students and retain a lawyer. Just a letter from a lawyer to the University threatening legal action for their stance would probably be enough, since they don't have any direct threats from the RIAA or MPAA to counterbalance it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:31PM (#12050140)
    Hmmm, in the case of the student, I'm not sure there's much he can do. I was in a similar situation with an ISP a few years ago, I received a call from them "advising" me that a large amount of "potentially illegal" downloading was going on over my connection, and that as the subscriber I was to be held liable. Interestingly, all I'd been downloading was Linux ISO's.

    In the end, after pointing out the relevant facts (and getting kicked up 4 levels), and expressing my disatisfaction with how this was handled, I ended up getting a formal apology from the company in question.

    In either case, stating that someone is performing illegal acts when they are not is slander/libel (depending on the media and distribution involved), although the burdon of proof makes pursuing it rather pointless.

    My advice would be to approach the people running the IT service and discuss things with them rationally, stating that you are slightly put-off receiving the letter you did, and you would like to clarify their stance on BitTorrent, and it's positive uses.
  • by rizzo420 ( 136707 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:32PM (#12050141) Journal
    you have this all wrong... a university limits bandwidth to p2p applications for reasons beyond the legality issues. they do it because (1) they can't afford to increase the total amount of bandwidth to campus in general without a major increase in tuition or a grant to do just that. they limit these applications because, regardless of legality, they are generally not being used for academic purposes (a student downloading legal music, such as concerts from bands that allow taping/trading, is not using the network for academic purposes). the primary purpose of the bandwidth to a university is academic and business related. everything else takes second to that. when p2p apps take over 70+% of the total bandwidth, it makes other uses difficult, including plain web browsing.

    i went to the university of connecticut. i worked for resnet at uconn. at the time, they did something similar with the bandwidth, throttled it way down during business hours. increased it a little from 5pm-8pm, a little more from 8pm-10pm, and it was no holds bar after 10. this was to allow night classes and any straggling professors or grad students doing research the ability to do their jobs. however, there was still a problem, so they throttled the upstream p2p bandwidth 24/7. this made everyone happy. i graduated in 2001. i think things are different there now, and they block most p2p all day, every day. things went downhill after certain staff members left there...

    i now work for providence college. a much smaller, private school. we don't have the money uconn does. p2p is throttled down completely, along with IRC. those that use IRC can have their ip adresses removed from the block. these blocks are because p2p took over our entire amount of bandwidth and made it difficult to do anything at any tiem of the day (including late night). we also don't have the time/money to deal with RIAA/MPAA issues, but that's not so much part of the reason for the block as the lack of bandwidth.
  • Re:Legal Precedent (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dslbrian ( 318993 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:39PM (#12050220)

    Even if they reverse the Court of Appeals on the issue and decide that Grokster can be held liable for contributory infringement, that doesn't make the technology itself illegal - it just means that, if the technology is used to infringe copyrights, the copyright holders can sue the company that made the technology instead of or as well as (not sure the deal on this minor point) the users who actually download copyrighted material.

    But the effect of such a decision would be catastrophic on all software used to exchange information. I imagine it would be trivial to show that a given P2P software was used to exchange a copyrighted work. And if so, the companies and/or individuals creating such software would be sued out of existance. Who would step in to write any new software knowing that an unrelated 3rd party could do something to cause them to get sued out of business?

    Frankly, I find the whole notion of specifically targeting P2P applications to be stupid - anyone could use email, ftp, or usenet to distribute copyrighted works - what are you going to do, ban ftp? sue the makers of email software? why not just shut down the internet? its ridiculous and I hope the courts think so also, so they can force the media companies to stop living in 1980...

  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:50PM (#12050324) Journal
    If the file you're accused of "illegally downloading" was an update to Azureus, show them the copyright/license information for the product at http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ . http://sourceforge.net/projects/azureus/ says that it's GPL. So downloading that particular product is quite strictly legal.

    A separate issue that you haven't addressed is what other material you've downloaded using BitTorrent. Some people only use it for legally downloadable material like open software ISOs and trade-friendly music like the etree.org stuff (I certainly do; there's way too much stuff I like there to have time for piracy), while other people trade warez and pirated music. If you're one of the latter, please slap yourself on the wrist, clean the stuff off your PC, and be *very* careful when you talk to the university admins. If you're one of the former, you're in a much stronger legal position. There can be a big difference between what legitimate uses you *could* use BT for and what you're actually doing with it.

    Illegal downloading is potentially legally dangerous to the university, whether it's done with BT or FTP-over-carrier-pigeon. If they're saying that the *issue* is dangerous to *you*, that sounds to me like a threat, and you really need to talk to your ombudsperson.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 25, 2005 @06:50PM (#12050326)
    I work at a university as well. In fact, I'm the poor fellow who gets to look for this sort of traffic and disconnect students who are running it. After much thought and consideration, I have come to a decision regarding people in your situation. To wit: cry me a river.

    I really couldn't care less about your source packages, or multimedia, or whatever non-piracy stuff you want to do with your internet connection. Unless you are doing something that is specifically related to university studies, we really couldn't care less if you succeed or fail.

    Quite simply, students fail to understand that the internet connection is not here for you to play games, instant message, or write home to mommy. The internet is here for you to research, to manage your student service issues, and to email professors and administrators. That it also allows you to surf the web, play your Xbox, and IM mommy about how the eeevil IT department disconnected you is entirely outside our area of concern. When your toying around creates a problem, or even the potential for a problem, for those using the internet connection for its intended purpose, I boot you off the network until we can have a little chat.

    If you need to use a particular banned service to download something school related, and people have requested this in the past, then we will be entirely accomodating. We had a grduate CS student who needed to do just that for some programming project yesterday afternoon. We sat him down in a chair in front of the firewall, plugged him in to the DMZ, and let him download to his heart's content. That is a legitimate use of university resources. Your movies, music, and whatever else you claim to download (I won't go into the ratio of letitimate/illegitimate downloads that traversed our network before banning P2P, but suffice it to say that these "legitimate uses" people are lying) are unimportant, and you can just as well download it at home.
  • by mp3phish ( 747341 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:07PM (#12050448)
    Actually you do. Nobody has a right to scan files in your computer without a warrant or unless you offer it up. If he had a open network share that is one thing, they could scan it from the network. But coming into his room and scanning his hard drive is a big NO NO without a warrant or permission.
  • by Lord Kano ( 13027 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:08PM (#12050459) Homepage Journal
    Of course I agree that universities should not censor information, especially not in such unclever ways as declaring a protocol illegal. But I can understand why some universities have to kneel before the commerical powers that be.

    What's next? Refusing to teach unpopular history?

    What if Bayer or Volkswagen decides to sue a university for teaching students that during WWII they used jewish slave labor?

    Or what if Hormel wants to sue a university for teaching students that during the civil war they sold tainted beef to the US Government and many men died of food poisoning?

    Universities shape public policy. The civil rights struggle would not have been as successful without college students. Educational institutions are where people learn how to interact with everyone else. From kindergarten through postgraduate work, educational institutions have a profound effect on the kinds of citizens we become. Second only to our parents/families...

    LK
  • by Catbeller ( 118204 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:08PM (#12050464) Homepage
    Years ago, I saw this coming. It hasn't reached critical mass yet, but the ISPs will be forced to monitor users soon. It'll be years, but the internet will go on lockdown.

    Universities, with their exceptionally chickenshit administrators (it's the vicious culture that makes you keep your head covered) are the canaries in this coal mine. They are dropping first.

    I can only think that building new, covert, independent networks with simple technologies is the answer. Encrypted wireless mesh networks, with gateways to the internet maintained off-campus ( a rented apartment?). Cheap ethernet cables run where they can't be spotted. Radio relays run from the rooftops, broadcasting from building to building, highly directional. Lasers. Microwave relays. Powerlines. Waterpipes. Mesh cell phone bandwidth somehow for temporary burst-and-go networks. Use meatnets, by using people to move large amounts of data around. Use that cute ethernet-over-flesh trick: someone touches a transmitter, downloads a batch of files to a hardrive in his back pocket, then walks the data over and uploads it elsewhere. The possiblities are limited by how much you really want uncensored communications.

    You're the first to go lockdown. The rest of us will be with you soon. It's not just about bittorrent and file sharing. It's about the censorship to come, if things go as bad as I think it will under President Cheney/Rice. Develop tools to communicate, because you're going to need them.

  • Re:Easier yet: (Score:3, Insightful)

    by theCoder ( 23772 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:26PM (#12050572) Homepage Journal
    They won't call the cops -- they'll just shutoff your network connection for violating the AUP (most AUPs are written so generally they can easily be applied to kick people off if they want). And then what are you going to do?
  • by Audacious ( 611811 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:34PM (#12050615) Homepage
    It is unfortunate. But like others here have stated, the thing to do is to NOT do anything rash or is a knee-jerk reaction. Instead, write the dean of the college with a CC to the head of the computing department. Cite the court cases where the judge has found in favor of those using BitTorrent.

    In the letter I would also cite that when cassette tape recorders first came out the music and movie industries screamed and yelled about these items being illegal for the common person to use. Their reasoning was that people would make millions of copies of songs and soundtracks. People did - but no where near as often as the music and movie industries tried to make it out to be. When VCRs first came out the music and movie industry again went to court and fought tooth and nail to prevent people from being able to use that technology. Then laser discs came and they again filed suit. Then CDs came out and they filed suit again. The United States of America was one of the LAST countries to have DVDs because of the music and movie industries lawsuits and lobbying of Congress. In all cases the technology could be used for illegal as well as legal copying of information. Whether songs, movies, or even games. In every single case the courts and Congress together have made it extremely clear that just because there is the opportunity to use a technology for illegal purposes it doesn't mean that everyone is going to use it for that purpose. (After all - cars are used to help bankrobbers, kidnappers, and others yet everyone still drives cars.) Further, after all of the hysteria, screaming, finger pointing, jeering, hyperbole, accusations, misleading and often outright lies propagated by these industries it has always been found that their fears were nothing more than ignorance of how the technology works. As well as how these industries should use them to increase their incomes. (For my part, I believe they really are just dragging their heels on implementing the new technologies because they don't want to spend the X number of dollars to install the new technology and use it. After all - they've got things pretty well locked up as is.)

    So that is what I would do. Write the dean of the college as well as the head of the computing center and lay things out for them. That you feel you are being punished unjustly for a crime you have not committed. Expain to them what the Azureus BitTorrent client does, how it helps to keep the bandwidth usage low (thus saving the university money), and I would imply that it would make everyone who is already using Azureus think less highly of your university (which they probably would). I would also ask those who use Azureus to send an e-mail to you with examples of what they are using the application for and I would include those into the letter to the dean and manager of the computing center.

    Hope things work out for you! :-)
  • by CowsAnonymous ( 697884 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:49PM (#12050719)
    The Acceptable Use Policy at my college didn't have anything that states that use of the network for downloading using bittorrent specifically for legal purposes weren't allowed, even though they have the ports for that specific protocol, along with kazaa, morpheus, etc., throttled so low that no one uses them. However, they'd probably counter anything with this one bullet that include actions that are prohibited in the AUP:

    "Use of the College's technical resources in a manner that causes degradation, incapacitates, compromises, or in anyway jeopardizes the teaching, learning and business missions of the College for students, faculty, and administration."

    So, you could be "chewing up bandwidth" downloading some linux iso's, which compromises the available bandwidth for someone who is trying to access their online classroom.
  • by Quothz ( 683368 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:50PM (#12050722) Journal

    a student downloading legal music, such as concerts from bands that allow taping/trading, is not using the network for academic purposes

    It's not? Were my credits in music appreciation not academic? If I downloaded a couple of ditties by Beethoven, was I cutting into the bandwidth of students browsing the Web, no doubt purely for academic purposes?

    Making sweeping statements like this without thought leads to poor policies. Mind you, I agree with the rest of your post.

  • by Grishnakh ( 216268 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:52PM (#12050735)
    Sorry, your logic is invalid. You say "they don't want to regulate BitTorrent traffic", but by shutting down his access for using BT, they are in fact regulating it. If they were regulating it, they wouldn't be looking for it.

    Yes, the Uni owns the network, but as a member in a contractual agreement, they have to have terms of service that they live up to: a policy. If they don't want people using P2P networks, they're free to state, in their policy, that P2P usage is not permitted. However, according to TFA, this is not the case in this instance. Instead, they're accusing him of lawbreaking, by their statement involving decisions by "the courts". Maybe you don't see it, but most reasonable people can see this is clearly an implication of illegal activity. Remember, according to the Constitution, acts which are not specifically declared illegal, are by default legal. You can't just go around accusing people of being lawbreakers because whatever acts they commit haven't been specifically decided by "the courts" or the legislature as being legal.
  • No they didn't (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sterno ( 16320 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @07:53PM (#12050741) Homepage
    They did not say that this student was a criminal or what they were doing was criminal. What they said was that, until P2P networks are ruled to be legal by the courts, they would not allow them on campus. That isn't saying that a P2P network is illegal, or that the student's use of it is illegal. It is simply saying that, barring a court ruling that affirms their legality, they aren't going to permit them at all.

    Furthermore, there can be no libel or slander here because this is a private communication between the school and the student. Slander or libel is saying or printing something that is knowingly false about the student for others to see. It's a matter of damaging somebody's reputation. If the school and the student are the only ones privee to the communication, how can their reputation be damaged.
  • by El Kevbo ( 81125 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @08:03PM (#12050812)

    I assume you live on campus. I recommend you take your case to Housing, the Dean of Students, or someone else in Student Affairs. We're generally much more sympathetic and student friendly (it's our job). We're professional student advocates who should be able to help you navigate the processes and translate the language of the higher education bureaucracy.

    In particular, if you can make your case to Housing you may be in a stronger position as we are typically a self-sufficient or lightly subsidized auxiliary service and dependent on your rent for our budget. Unhappy residents makes our lives more difficult and if it impacts the bottom line strongly enough it may make our jobs nonexistent. But more than that: most of us are in this profession to understand your concerns and help you convey them to the right people. It's part of the educational process. We honestly believe (and have the research to support) a huge amount of important educational and learning experiences occur outside of the classroom and labratory. This is one of those experiences.

    IMHO, there should be a healthy tension between the Housing dept and the IT dept regarding the policies and use of the residential computer network. There is an inherent tension between needing to protect the network and keeping it open for legitimate academic and recreational uses. Unfortunately, it's usually the residents who get caught in the middle between these opposing viewpoints.

    I've been involved in similar "fights" and discussions. There's no easy answer particularly in areas where bandwidth is expensive and public support for higher education is declining (i.e. nearly everywhere). And ultimately my responsibility is to all of the residents not just one or two of them. If that means I have to deny access to an application, port, etc. to a few residents to ensure the rest of them can use the network then I'll do that or recommend our network engineers do that. It's a poor solution and I wish we didn't have to do it but sometimes we have to make compromises. We can't afford (more realistically: YOU can't afford) to buy the bandwidth necessary to satisfy all of the academic and entertainment needs of all of the residents.

    Best of luck! I hope your campus administration makes the right decision (whatever that is) and you learn something (hopefully positive) from this process. If it helps, I am dismayed by the situation as you have described it and would do my best not to allow a similar situation on my campus.

  • by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @08:50PM (#12051077)
    It amazes me how many people start their reply with words to the effect of "they have accused you of doing something illegal, this is slander, sue them!" when in fact the parts of the letter that have been posted do no such thing.

    Its also funny how many people say "they can't do that!" when the university owns the network in question, which means yes they can. There is no gray area, and there is ample court ruling to back that up.

    Considering the legal consequences the school can face from the **AA crushing machine, I can't fault them for taking this stance. I think its unfortunate, and to an extent unfair, but they really don't have a lot of choices.

    But then this is Slashdot. We never let a little thing like facts get in the way. Just like this post will probably get modded to "troll" because we also don't like it when simple truths are pointed out.
  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @08:52PM (#12051089) Journal
    Why would they bother. If you don't sign, you get no access. It's not a negotiable point. They're not "agreeing" they're "acknowledging". There's no active role on thier part.

    I'm the guy who reads practially every agreement front to back. Except EULAs and "no change" agreements which I specifcally note to the observer that I did not read it, and signed on the lines they indicated.

    Oh, and I've put changes is many "non-changeable" contracts.
  • It's not a red herring when talking about blocking access to unauthorized copies.

    Because sometimes even if the copies are unauthorized, they can be legal, thanks to Fair Use. Unauthorized != illegal.

    And that's not even something that will ever be figured out by a computer, even if they have a fingerprint of every copyrighted work in existance. Because sometimes you have the right to copy information, copyright be damned, and when that is can only be decided by the courts.

    So it's not just 'things you have legit permission to download' blocking stops, it's also 'things you have a right under the law to download even though you don't have permission'.

    So even if there was a magical bittorrent filter that stopped you from downloading Star Wars but let you download a Linux ISO, it can't ever be smart enough to know you're downloading Star Wars because you want a four second clip of Greedo shooting first to go along with your dissertation on 'How the Digital Universe Allows Anyone to Edit History', and thus you're squarely in the Fair Use camp.

    (No, you can't grab it off the DVD, thanks to the DMCA, which outlawed the tools in addition to using them. So you could legally rip it, but not legally possess any tools to do so.)

    And before anyone says 'That's an absurd situation', I'll point that Fair Use covers a lot of things...you could even argue it covered, to get back my original example, downloading a no-longer-manufactured original vinyl rip to go along with your purchase of a CD, because it's for personal, non-commercial use, and obviously no sales have been lost, even without any aspect of research. You'd probably lose in court, because you copied the whole work, but you might not.

  • by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @10:03PM (#12051464) Homepage
    The defenition of the word "meaning" includes the concept of conveyance: you don't have a meaning, you convey a meaning. In this case, as I have seen very few US High Schools which teach Swedish or old Norse, and as such chances are Ombudsman is meaningless to most incoming freshmen.

    It's a bad name, period. The time to be digging through the list of people employed by your college and looking up their job titles on Wikipedia is not generally the sort of desperate times one would need an ombudsman. That's like having a department called "Hilfeanbietenman." It means something to someone but come on, call a help desk a help desk.

  • by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 ) on Friday March 25, 2005 @10:23PM (#12051589) Journal
    It's a bad name because you have a small vocabulary? Should we take this a step further and just remove words from the dictionary because you've never encountered them before?
  • Re:legitimate uses (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Friday March 25, 2005 @10:41PM (#12051694) Homepage Journal

    At least Azureus and eMule pull down their updates using their own networks (BT and ed2k respectively). True, it's not implemented yet for major distributions' package managers, but I see no reason why a future version of apt couldn't support ed2k or BT repositories.

  • by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Saturday March 26, 2005 @02:10AM (#12052593) Homepage
    In my undergraduate days if I had recieved a reasoned response like that from my school's network infrastructure department, I probably would have understood and abided by it. Knowing myself I would still have run that external network from window to window to play Descent on, but we certainly wouldn't have been as hard on the dormatory network as we were.

    My "living within" example wasn't meant as living within the restrictions of not using bittorrent or not downloading large files. I had meant that it would be impossible to live within the boundaries of using network access exclusively for directly educational activities. But it looks like you already have that in mind, and have measured what you can provide.

    Still, though, you will probably get more sympathetic responses to a policy of "We are attempting to provide students with everything they want, but are under certain rather extreme bandwidth limitations," rather than "unless you are doing something that is specifically related to university studies, we really couldn't care less if you succeed or fail." Even if the latter is true, it's still likely to cause more trouble in the long run than less. Having been in the position myself of dealing with the public for a small ISP, I know that it's tough not getting bitter when some jerk is giving you a lecture because you cut of the network access which his kid was using to port scan and own every unpatched windows box he could find. But the message does need to be earnest no matter what, or even more users will misbehave.

    I do tend to think there will be a day when .torrent has become the accepted way to distribute all files over the internet... that your firewall download will only come in .torrent form, or XP SP3. The bandwidth costs to the host are just so overwhelming that once torrent clients become ubiquitous they would be fools not to rely upon it. Already many of the smaller sites have switched over, with a few of the larger ones offering .torrents as a download alternative.

    I find the idea of blocking .torrents problematic for this reason. P2P... if you can't throttle it, block it. Videogames... I'd take half the dorms and give them full videogame access, The other half I'd block, and after two years I'd compare the drop-out rates for each. You might even get funding for the research. I suspect the results would just encourage you to block it. But torrents? While there is a lot of bandwidth being taken up by torrents, I can't consider the protocol illegitimate. Some P2P, like IM, is very legitimate. Some, like Kazaa, is extremely illegitimate. But .torrents have checks and ID's involved in the system to, theoretically anyway, make piracy even more difficult. You still have to host the file yourself, you have to stay hosting the file, you have to be 100% traceable, and you have to actually publish / advertise the file through a different medium like the web. Blocking .torrents seems like blocking FTP access because there are a lot of Warez sites. Then again, you have access to the numbers, you probably know how much of the .torrent traffic is currently legitimate, and if that turns around you can unblock.

    Would it be possible to coordinate with a 2nd party to provide internet access to individuals in your student dormatories? When I had arrived in the dorms (about 8 years ago), I was shocked to find cable TV jacks in every room. Would the local cable provider be willing to install the extra infrastructure necessary to provide cable internet service the students that wanted it? Having a secondary provider might ease some of the pressure on your main network...
  • by MrResistor ( 120588 ) <.peterahoff. .at. .gmail.com.> on Saturday March 26, 2005 @03:44AM (#12052869) Homepage
    If the school pays the bills and offers the service free

    There's nothing free about it. He pays tuition, and a network connection is one of the services he's provided in return.

    If you think that arguement won't fly in court, you're wrong. It will, and it has (I'm specifically thinking of CSU Humboldt, which got sued on that basis when their new library took to long to build. IIRC, the judgement against the school was a few million dollars).

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