Online Business Model for a Band? 420
Backes asks: "I've seen a lot of submissions about P2P, iTMS, DRM, piracy, and the RIAA, lately. Apparently everyone has an opinion on this and most seem think that the recording industry are a bunch of greedy people that stick it to the consumer as well as their own artists. After hearing some of the stories, I'm not even sure that getting signed to a label would be the best course of action for an aspiring musician or band. So what is a better option? What would you, the Slashdot community, do to make it big on your own using the Internet?"
"What kinds of features would a site need? Would you pay for downloads of MP3s from a band's site or not? At what price? Would donations work, or would everyone just freeload? How often would you need updates or new songs to keep you coming back? If downloads were free, would you then buy a full length album from the site just to get the CD? What special features should the CD include? How would you get your name out? What do you think is the best course of action for a band that wants to completely circumvent the whole music industry process and do it themselves?"
To make it big on the internet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Model (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:take the contract (Score:4, Insightful)
Star Wars Kid (Score:3, Insightful)
Having a site with your work isn't enough these days. Unless you are the best of the best out of the billions of sites with the same type of content as yours, you won't be recognized. Although it might sound like a joke, but doing something wacky and weird will get you all the attention on the internet, as people start propagating and promoting your site to others. Take Star Wars Kid, realultimatepower.net, Yata, etc, for example, instant fame in a matter of days. Now, shifting from wackiness to the content you are promoting might be a more difficult challenge.
Perception (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:take the contract (Score:3, Insightful)
Take the contract, get famous, then worry about rights.
its pretty simple really (Score:5, Insightful)
That's all.
The "recording artist" is becomming something of an anacronism - or will become so IMO.
We are returning to a time when musicians get payed to actually perform their music, not just record it.
Ask a signed band, and the record company always, always gets the biggest cut of the money from record sales.
the band just counts on the sales driving concert attendance...but it's not really SALES driving the attendence, it's the people hearing the music.
and that hearing can now be achieved without the expenses of distribution from a decade ago.
that's truely why the Recording Industry is going to the toilet. The fleets of trucks driving to the stores and the warehouses of duplicatation equipment are already outdated - and that was really all that we needed those guys for. They didn't MAKE artists, the found and held them - like a zoo animal.
Give your music away, if you love it set it free. They will come to see you play if you rock
and I hope you do
link to your bands website?
What I would Do (Score:2, Insightful)
No substitute for the stage. (Score:1, Insightful)
So the best way to use the net is to direct people locally to where and when you perform. Give them discounts on tickets and cd's that they can print out then redeem at your concerts. That way there is an incentive for the individual to try you out. Hype means nothin' if you have not got a groove.
Give It Away Now (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I would like to know (Score:4, Insightful)
And, just to please the slashbots, note that it wouldn't be "stealing" if another band used your material, it would be "copyright infringement".
some required reading (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:take the contract (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe, maybe not. That's not an indicator.
You've probably never heard of 95 percent of the bands that have signed on to a record label. Many, many times, the label simply does nothing with the band/artist. And they'll still prevent you from actually doing anything else creative.
Sometimes it's in your best interest not to sign.
Re:its pretty simple really (Score:5, Insightful)
The album format may be dying (slowly, but yes, it's dying), but for someone who spends way too much time in a car or at work, live music (and ESPECIALLY merch - I don't want a t-shirt of my favorite band
Re:take the contract (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't be stupid. If a label offers you a contract take it. If your career goes anywhere, you can renegotiate a better contract after the terms of the first have been completed.
That seems to be the advice you hear from a lot of different people. I've been through one record deal already and have talked to a *lot* of other bands in the same position, and it rarely works out like that.
Also, in most cases a major label deal guarantees *one* album but locks you in for *seven*, all at the sole discretion of the label. That's a long time to wait for a renegitiation. There are bands that have been around for 10-15 years and still haven't released seven albums.
Just out of curiosity do you have any experience in the music industry? Specifically with signing record contracts, releasing and promoting albums and renegotiating contracts?
Thousands of good bands have totally fallen apart because of the way the label handled them. Not because they weren't good or there wasn't an audience for their music, but because labels want immediate success and try to put all their eggs in one basket. They spend ridiculous amounts of money up front so when it doesn't work right away the bands are tossed out with nothing but whatever's left from their advance. That might last you another few months, but what then?
I guess what I'm saying is, it's not always as simple as what you're making it out to be. Obviously a young band isn't going to get the best deal. I'm not saying to turn down every record deal just on principle. But make sure the label at least beleives in what you do and is willing to put their money where their mouth is. You might not be able to get a good royalty rate right away, but try to get 2 albums guaranteed or a certain amount of money for promotion/tour support. At the very least get whatever you can up front, because no matter what they say, they want to give you as little money as possible. The last thing you want is to be broke 6 months later and begging the label for more money so you can pay your bills while you're out on the road. If you just take any deal that is thrown in front of you, you're just asking to get screwed. I've seen it plenty of times. I know at least 4-5 bands that signed major label deals. One of them had their album shelved (ie: it never got released) and they got dropped. The rest got such little support that the records never sold enough to satify the label, the bands all got dropped and everyone went their separate ways.And in almost all the cases, if they had released the album on a smaller label and had a better deal, they would have been considered successful with the amount of albums that they sold and would've actually made some money.
Sure it's a much harder road to follow. But do you really want to put the future of your band in the hands of some company that is gonna toss you out whenever they feel like it? For some people it's worth the risk. At one point it was for me. But we got tossed out just like everyone else. Luckily we all have confidence in what we do and decided it was worth pushing forward.
I think with the technology we have today its possible to put your band in a position to be able to negotiate the right deal up front. It's gonna be hard, but it will be worth it in the long run.
Don't even try to get signed until you have some kind of following. Sell you music online and at shows. Give it away on P2P networks if you have to. If its good eventually the fans will come. Once you have a decent fanbase, even if it's in one area, you at least have something to bargain with. Labels love numbers. If you can sell 10,000 CDs regionally, even if it takes you a couple of years, you're gonna be in a much better position to get the right deal from a major label.
If you go just with a demo and nothing else, you really don't have anything. Sure the demo might be amazing. But labels don't really care if something is good anymore. They'd rather you show up with a demo that sucks, but you sold 25,000 copies of it. If it sells they'll get behind it.
Re:I'm so glad you asked.. (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems kind of ironic that you have to have a successful promotion and distribution model before a label will step up and offer to provide promotion and distribution in exchange for your money and the rights to your work, doesn't it. Its no wonder the RIAA is scared spitless.
Re:its pretty simple really - not (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, I do agree with you and think that there will be a general trend toward live performance. As usual, China is a model: musicians there don't make shit from their CDs - they're instantly pirated. They make their living from constant grueling tour schedules.
That's fine when you're in your 20s and you want to "rock", but it really sucks for people who are older or have family obligations.
I think he crux of the matter is one of raising consciousness among consumers.
Sure: go and trade your mp3s on P2P, but: if there is something you like and you listen to it more than a few times, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND BUY IT, YOU CHEAP ASS MOTHER FUCKER.
And if you can buy it directly from the musician(s), all the better. Go for it. By doing so you support the people who made the stuff and deserve your money. They have to pay rent too.
RS
Re:I would like to know (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, and all those people talking about envelopes and such are just morons. They have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
Hard work, time and of course good music = success (Score:4, Insightful)
It wasn't easy for us, but after a few years of hard work and patience we had our own following who supported us and dug our music. If the music is good, people will eventually hear about you. Posters and other schwag (no matter how polished and professional it looks) won't go very far nowadays. Word of mouth is the best form of advertisment, the rest will have to be done by lot's of gigging (which will make you better and tighter) and making those phone calls to any entertainment publication that will listen. Create a positive "buzz" where you live, and keep booking those shows. Don't ever let people forget about you. You'll find your band's rep is bigger and better than you actually are!
Don't try to do it all yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
The right path is really to find someone else (such as Magnatune) who has a business model which leaves you ownership of your music, gives you a return that you feel is fair, and involves business practices you think are ethical. There's nothing inherently bad about signing with a label, just like there's nothing inherently bad about getting a loan; it's just that the well-known labels are scams.
Re:Get your priorities right (Score:2, Insightful)
The label gives you credability because they spend money on you. A publicist gives you credibility because they took you on as a client (which isn't easy!). The distributor gives you credibility because they keep 500+ of your record around waiting for the masses to buy them. The booking agent gives you credibility because of the months of time they spend talking to promoters and arranging the tours (along with the money, food, blue m&ms, etc.). The writers that take the word of the publicist that you are good gives you credibility. And the radio stations that are constantly being asked how many times you song has been played give the impression to program directors that you are important.
It is all about being given this respect and credibility from those in position to make things happen for you. If you do it all yourself, you are at a disadvantage b/c are you having to toot your own horn all the time. No one thinks I am a great hacker because I say I am. It is when Eric Raymond and Alan Cox are saying I can change the world with my code that I am respected and given opportunities. With that said, anyone can do it. If you work hard and don't mind the fact that talent is not enough, then you can do it (and have a ton of fun!).
With that said, a shameless ad for my own band is required. We have a record coming out on Pretty Activity Records (http://prettyactivity.com [prettyactivity.com]). Our website is http://umemusic.com [umemusic.com] (be gentle...). We are touring in late May to early June and then again in August (I have an internship with Novell/Ximian in between
Re:take the contract (Score:4, Insightful)
It's also worth noting that you've almost certainly never heard of 99.99% of the succesful musicians out there. Where by "succesful" I mean, they make a living, and enjoy and excel at what they do.
If your primary goal is to "make it big", or become "famous"--well, I think your priorities are weird, but I also think you're setting yourself up for disappointment....
--Bruce Fields
Re:take the contract (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me begin on a bit of a tangent and then connect it later.
The basic difference between math and physics is that math is based on a system in which any set of rules that are internally consistent are equally valid. Physics is a science in which many competing theories are internally consistent, but they are only valid if they describe the world in which we live.
So what have you done? You have claimed that most peoples' daily jobs are like a commission in that you are paid by someone to do work that they dictate. (I don't disagree with that, although I probably would have put it the other way - a commission is just a type of job, rather than vice-versa.)
But that's an example of an organized entity (a corporation) paying workers a substantial salary in an attempt to make a profit, subject to various legal restrictions. Going from that to having tens of thousands of people contributing small sums on the Internet involves changing several variables at once. It's just too much of a logical leap.
You didn't even mention recent Internet efforts to raise money to save Blender, Mandrake, ST:Enterprise, etc. that worked, to an extent. And hey, Howard Dean funded his political campaign with contributions from the Internet. But then again, he didn't win. Every cause is different. So whether this strategy can work for musicians doesn't seem clear to me. And whether it can work if thousands of other bands are using the same strategy is a further open question.
BTW, it's a logical fallacy to believe that just because a business model is "disintegrating" then the alternative must be better. Very often, an imperfect status quo is still preferable to all the alterantives.
-a
Re:I've figured it out. (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes it is real debt, yes they have to pay it back or their own label starts to sic collection agencies on them and many end up having to go through bankruptcy.
If the first album didn't sell well, I think it's safe to say the label isn't worried about the competition.
There are plenty of reasons that an album does not sell well, for example poor to non-existant marketing. In that article I linked to, the band being interviewed complains that their label spent just enough money on marketing to get a few posters printed up, and no more.
You seem to think that music labels wish to make as much possible money from all of their acts. That would probably be true in a free market, but they have an oligopoly market which means all the standard free-market assumptions go out the window. For the music labels, in the long run maintaining monopoly control of the market is more important than maximizing revenue from each act because monopoly control means they can make hugely out-of-proportion money on a few acts instead. Much more money in total than they could make in a free market scenario, and with a lot less work. Kind of the biz equivalent of "put all your eggs in one basket, and then watch that basket very carefully."
Same thing with books, ever wonder why so many books go out of print today when we have the technology to do stuff like print-on-demand? They may not be bestsellers, but they are competition, and taking them off the shelves at the retailers makes it that much easier for the latest big hit by Clancy or King or whomever to sell even more copies.
I wasn't talking about the authors not complaining, I was talking about all those "music wants to be free" morons not complaining.
A) Well, that must make it OK, then.
B) You may call them "morons" I say they are people who have figured out that the net makes copying a zero-cost operation and that business models based on prohibitive marginal costs are no longer feasible and have historically been abusive to their customers and their suppliers. Just because the "morons" may not be able to propose alternative business plans does not mean their initial observation that music, and really all information, "wants to be free" is any less valid. The net is the net and trying to deny it is like denying that water is wet.