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Security Technology

Retail Theft Detectors and False Alarms? 230

Posted by Cliff from the theft-device-that-cried-wolf dept.
NichardRixon asks: "All too often I set off the 'shoplifter alarm' when leaving a major department store in my area, after purchasing OTC medicine. Even though I make a point of watching the cashier 'clear' the boxes, it is evidently an imprecise process. As often as not the alarm goes off as I leave, and the security person wants to look through my bag and compare what's found with my reciept. People passing by give me the evil eye, evidently assuming that I've been caught stealing. This has happened so so many times that my new policy is to refuse to stop for the search, telling the gaurd that they will have to tackle me, and of course they just let me go. Shouldn't stores be required to use more reliable equipment?" What's worse is that there are many retailers that are just plain apathetic to the alarm. What's the point of having these detectors if all they are is continuing source of false alarms? What good will they be when they catch a real theft in progress and no one reacts properly because of their questionable history?
"It happened to my wife the other day, however, and she felt as though she had no choice but to wait several minutes, embarassingly on display to other shoppers, for the arrival of the manager. I was wondering if other Slashdot readers have been having similar experiences and if so, how they deal with them."
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Retail Theft Detectors and False Alarms? More

Retail Theft Detectors and False Alarms?

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  • What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SunFan ( 845761 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @02:53PM (#12272308)

    A deterrant. Retailers don't care if they alarms are reliable; they use them to deter many of the casual wannabe shoplifters out there. And apparently they work, because the big retailers with analysts out the wazoo use them.
    • The worst case of inconvenience that I've ever experienced with this sort of thing was not at a retailer, but at the library of the Univ. of Texas at Tyler.

      I was doing some research and carried my PowerMac bag with me for obvious reasons. When I was leaving the security system went off. The staff sort of freaked. I had to empty my bag and add one item at a time back into it to see if the alarm got set off by that item.

      Turns out that a coiled up ethernet patch cable was the culprit. Can you say electromagn
      • PowerMac bag
        I would be more worried about the looks you get when you bust out the 50 pound beast in the middle of the library.
        Of course I know you meant powerbook, but I just had to be a smartass :P
      • Worst experience for me was in the HS library. Some joker took the RFID tag out of a book on the shelf and stuck it in a book in my backpack.

        I was 20 minutes late to my next class as the librarian and I dug through the pack looking for what was setting off the alarm.
    • The EAS systems in use by most retailers use a small security tag composed of two magnetized metal strips inside a plastic package. Contrary to popular opinion the following items will not set off the alarms:
      • steel-toe boots
      • cellphones
      • magnets
      • digital watches
      • eel-skin wallets

      (Note: Eel-skin wallets aren't made from the skin of eels, they're made from the skin of hagfish.)

      What will set the system off are any of the following:

      • security tags in product
      • security tags stuck to soles of shoes
      • security tags stu

  • Not a big deal (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SithGod ( 810139 ) <dcanders@umich.edu> on Monday April 18, 2005 @02:54PM (#12272328) Homepage Journal
    From my experience, the vast majority of the time the alarm goes off, it's etiher due to something not being demagnetized properly or something I'm carrying on me. I've never really felt that people have assumed I've done something wrong because almost everybody has had such a thing happen to them. AS far as perfecting it, if I were a retailer, I'd rather have it get an extra 99 people out of a thousand who were innocent but also get the one person who was actually stealing something than not go off. False positives for it tend to be rather minor as far as I have ever seen.

    • Re:Not a big deal (Score:5, Interesting)

      by WarPresident ( 754535 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:07PM (#12272509) Homepage Journal
      AS far as perfecting it, if I were a retailer, I'd rather have it get an extra 99 people out of a thousand who were innocent but also get the one person who was actually stealing something than not go off.

      Yes, it's that mentality that encourages people to buy car alarms that go off all hours of the night because a loud truck drives by, or a rainstorm sets it off. Better to inconvenience/alienate/embarrass customers, rather than pay for a decent system, right?

      Media Play, one of my least favorite stores for regularly priced merchandise (great clearance prices), has one of those lousy theft alarm systems that go off all the time. The staff don't care, rarely bothering to look up when it goes off. I saw a young hoodlum obviously pocketing XBox games and mentioned it to one of the drones at the service desk. No interest. The kid didn't set off the alarm, he had a nice, lined pouch in his coat... quite popular among thieves at the mall. Maybe we should all have foil-lined bags to put our purchases (or thefts) in before we leave the store...

      • Re:Not a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Maybe we should all have foil-lined bags to put our purchases (or thefts) in before we leave the store...

        That's called a booster bag. Having a booster bag is an offence in many jurisdictions. Of course, shoplifting is alread illegal :)

        • Re:Not a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Ken D ( 100098 )
          That's funny. All EZ-Pass transponders are delivered via the US Mail in foil lined bags. Otherwise you'd get billed for every tollbooth that the mail truck drove through. And you are reminded to keep your foil lined bag, in case you need to return your transponder, or you need to transport it without using it, for the same reason.
        • Funny, because photographers routinely store their film in lead-lined pouches to prevent inadvertent x-ray exposure if they'll be near airports or hospitals.

          I wonder if the aluminized mylar antistatic bags, or potato chip bags, would work the same? When all you have is a poorly written law, everything looks like a hammer.
    • Of course, my story from years ago when I was in college. I was at the college bookstore during that first week of the semester when it is totally mobbed (everyone buying books, supplies, etc.)

      I go through line. Step through the detector and it goes off. The cashier asks "What'd you take?"

      The manager comes over and I step through again - no alarm. Bag goes through again, no alarm. Both go through, no alarm.

      I'm not sure why I didn't complain to the manager about her. I know I was irked by the situation.
    • Security system with 5 false positives per day: $50,000.00
      Lost income from permanently losing 5 regular customers per day: $80,000.00
      Catching a shoplifter: -$8.00
      Spending $130,000 plus your reputation to save $8.00: stupid

      Sorry, I just can't work a good punchline into that one.

      • Your numbers are all wrong.

        The 5 regular customers have nowhere else to go. More importantly, it's more like 1 per day, or 1 per every 4 or 5 days.

        Catching a shoplifter could be $20 per guard per day. An plainclothes guard catches the big thieves, and could catch several hundred to two thousand dollars per month. In California, if the thief was trying to take more than $400, they get charged with a felony.

        You also have no idea how incompetant the cashiers can be. They let all kinds of stuff slip by,

  • Passive aggressiveness. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by __david__ ( 45671 ) * on Monday April 18, 2005 @02:58PM (#12272389) Homepage
    When this happens to me (*every* time I go to Home Depot, by the way), I just just walk away purposefully, ignoring the cries of "Sir! Sir! You set off the alarm". I don't make eye contact, I don't speed up or slow down. Just ignore. It feels good when you finally reach that Zen-like state of perfect ignoring.

    I made the mistake of stopping once and had to sit there while they wasted my time rooting through all my bags. And yes, it's a waste of *my* time--It's not my duty to give them peace of mind. I guarantee they won't go out of their way to give *me* peace of mind.

    This is the same way I handle the bozos at the end of the Fry's line that insist on checking eveyone's bag. I just scoot on past and ignore everything they say. The Fry's guys won't chase you though; The Home Depot people do. :-)

    -David
    • When this happens to me (*every* time I go to Home Depot, by the way), I just just walk away purposefully, ignoring the cries of "Sir! Sir! You set off the alarm". I don't make eye contact, I don't speed up or slow down. Just ignore. It feels good when you finally reach that Zen-like state of perfect ignoring.

      That's my approach at Best Buy, too, when the Receipt Nazis want to stop me. I figure if they really think I stole something, they can call the cops. If the cops show up before I drive off the lot,
      • If you make eye contact, they'll typically leave you alone. Avoid eye contact on entrance, and they keep an eye on you, one way or another.

        My mother, who explained this to me, worked in loss prevention at a Meijers. Now she avoids the eye contact, just to irritate the door gaurds.
    • Not that I'm doubting you and the submitter, but -- is there something strange you're doing or wearing? I have _never_, as far as I can recall, set off a detector. Admittedly, I'm not the world's biggest shopper, but I do go through detectors at Home Depot and plenty of other stores, with no issues whatsoever. Maybe I need more iron in my diet?

      • Re:Passive aggressiveness. (Score:4, Informative)

        by CXI ( 46706 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:44PM (#12273001) Homepage
        At one point in time I kept setting off the alarm in Target every time I went through it, althought I never stopped. Anyway, I finally discovered a anti-theft device in a secret flap of the new wallet that I had purchased. I had even checked several times but didn't find it until I nearly tore the wallet apart. It was basically a piece of paper with some tracing on it, not one of those fat plastic ones, so you can't even feel the bulk of it.
        • Target's detectors seem to pretty routinely go off. Microcenter too. I'd say I set them off about once a month. Sometimes there has been reasons, like stuff I've bought at other stores or the occasional electronic devices. But frequently it just goes off for no apparent reason.

          Usually I just turn around, glance blankly and innocently for a security guard with a look of "Okay, what now?"

          I've never actually had my stuff gone through at Target. I've never been hassled. At Target I've been waved through
      • I've set them off occasionally, and have even gotten so I can anticipate it. It has almost always been the cashier not deactivating something. A couple of times, the deactivator just didn't work. I now just keep on walking too. Especially in the really big stores, they don't seem to be sure just *which* detector is going off, so I just act like I never heard anything. Never had anyone come after me, either.
      • I'm pretty sure the keys for my apartment complex, my GB:DS and my work badge all trigger alarms at Sun Coast, Barnes & Nobles and one of the department stores I have to walk through to get out of the Bellevue Square Mall.

        I just keep walking, especially with the department store as I trigger them going in and going out without ever coming near any of their wares.
      • I used to wear these steel-toed work boots all the time. One of the shoes (the right one, iirc) would set off about 80% of those alarms I passed.

        Used to annoy the shit out of me, as I always had to deal with the flee (play dumnb and walk to my car) or fight (make a stink about the shitty system they had) instinct.

        Finally, I comprimised. I began giving the checkout person a heads-up: "This may sound silly, but the steel-toed boots I wear always set off the detectors." More often than not, they'd chuck

      • I did some contracting in walmart stores last summer, and rolling a cart full of my personal tools in and out would set off the alarm every time. I narrowed it down: The cordless drill/flashlight combo kit was doing it. The flashlight was doing it.

        Not the battery, mind you, but the flashlight body, which consisted of nothing but a switch, a bulb, and two metal straps that connected them to the battery. For whatever reason, that must've resonated on exactly the right frequency to set off the alarm. I starte

      • I have _never_, as far as I can recall, set off a detector.

        The clerks sometimes suck at deactivating the tags, though.

        I was in a Border's book store a few years back doing holiday shopping (buying a CD, actually). The check-out line snaked through about half the store, probably about 60 people in front of me, and 5 registers. While waiting, the detector went off quite a few times, always with the response of "Sir (or Madam), you have to come back to deactive your tag...", presumably annoying the custo

  • I'm in the same boat with you (Score:4, Insightful)

    by djdead ( 135363 ) <seth@ w e n c hel.com> on Monday April 18, 2005 @02:59PM (#12272396)
    I agree with your solution of just keep on walking. Thankfully the Fourth Amendment protects us in the USA from illegal search and seizure.
    • Ha. The Fourth Amendment protects you against search and seizures by the government. The Fourteenth Amendment makes that binding on the states as well. Private corporations are perfectly allowed to detain you all they want. Of course, you can sue them for false imprisonment if their detainment is unfruitful (you are innocent). Yum. Knowledge.
  • You are right about the false positives. They are way too relaxed at times trying to clear the tag from going off.

    I would stop an complain to the manager plus when you get home call the head office. Throw a fit and to end it don't shop there anymore if they can't come to a solution.

    Running off isn't going to help you'll find a cop on your doorstep waiting for you to get home. They do after all have cameras in the parking lot...

    • Re:False positives (Score:5, Informative)

      by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrewNO@SPAMthekerrs.ca> on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:04PM (#12272464) Homepage
      I agree that you should complain, repeatedly, and in writing to the management/owners. However, at the same point, at no time did I agree to be held against my will and/or searched simply because some buzzer and a flashing light went off while I was exiting the store. If the store feels that I have shoplifted, they are perfectly free to either place my under citizen's arrest, or more likely, call the police and report it. However, since they will be able to provide no proof (I guarantee I didn't steal anything) and very little in the way of evidence, I highly doubt the police will even respond.
    • Running off isn't going to help you'll find a cop on your doorstep waiting for you to get home.

      I *highly* doubt that. The clerk won't be able to describe *at all* what was stolen (since nothing was) there won't be a surveillance tape showing a shoplifting (since none occurred). I'm no expert, but I have to imagine it'll be extremely tough to get a search warrant under those circumstances. And without that warrant, what would be the point?
    • Complaining to management never does any good. Businesses don't care how pissed off customers are as long as they keep making money off people.

      The only way to truly make a business pay attention to anything is to stop shopping there and to do everything in your power to get other people to stop shopping there, too. When their bottom line finally starts suffering, then they'll finally pay attention.

      Even filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau does little good these days, as most businesses know

  • Check your rights (Score:3, Informative)

    by paRcat ( 50146 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:01PM (#12272431)
    I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I was told that a store can't do anything to you without actually seeing you take something. So that's probably why the guards let you go. Otherwise, why have cameras at all... it would be cheaper to tag everything and let it get sorted out at the door.

    Also, from what I've been told, it's best to act as if nothing happened. Shoplifters get away with their crime more often than not because they just keep walking and they can be in their car by the time the guard get to them.

    • A store CAN do something (have you charged with theft) but often will not do so without very good evidence. If they're not SURE you stole something, they'd better pray that you're actually guilty, or they're likely to be hit with a false arrest charge and sued.
      • A store CAN do something (have you charged with theft) and they're likely to be hit with a false arrest charge

        You are granting powers to people that don't have them. "Stores" and "civillians" are not capable of "charging" or "pressing charges." One of the funniest lines used in movies is, "no officer, I don't want to press charges." That isn't your option. If a police officer (not a store) arrests you, it is up to the district attorney to press charges or not to press charges. The person who origina
        • Are you sure about that? When I worked in retail, every time I ever called the police to report a shoplifter, the officer who responded made sure to tell me that I was the one pressing the charges, and that if it turned out that I was blowing smoke, I would be the one to face the false arrest liability, not the officer.
          • the officer who responded made sure to tell me that I was the one pressing the charges,

            That is where the misunderstanding comes from. You are not pressing charges. You are filing the complaint. Your actions are "pressing" the charges. The actual charges are filed by the DA.

            I would be the one to face the false arrest liability, not the officer.

            Exactly. You are still not pressing offical charges and neither is the police officer. What he is warning you is that if the DA determines the person sho
        • Wrong. In VA Beach, I had a knife pulled on me. I called the cops, and was willing to press charges. I later changed my mind, and dropped the charges. The dude also hit me, so it was assault and battery charges.
          • Ok, think of it this way..

            If their lead "witness" refuses to testify against the accused, the state has no case. Zippo, zilch, nada.. If there was a camera watching, the state may ignore you, but then dealing with a "didnt know I was on camera" gig would probably get the evidence thrown out.
    • I used to work in Fred Meyer, and I remember it was next to impossible to get a theft charge stick to someone, even if you have it caught on tape (something about how any competent lawyer can argue that the customer was not told ahead of time that they'd be tape). Most of the time, it's some 15-year-old who agrees to sit in our little room and wait for the cops (they had every right to leave) and they almost always voluntarily confess to the cops when they get there.

      Anyway, I remembered the the rule was if
  • As far as I know, there is no law or ordinance anywhere in the US that requires a person to stop and wait for security to show up when an alarm goes off. Which is why I just keep walking if I get a false positive. I've never had a problem with it. Security won't typically tackle you, because an assault charge is no fun for anyone.

    The funny thing was, I was getting a lot of false positives for a while. I couldn't figure it out. I finally realized that the wallet I had bought a few weeks earlier had an activ

  • Car Key FOB (Score:4, Informative)

    by Undertaker43017 ( 586306 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:06PM (#12272486)
    Do you have a FOB for your car? For whatever reason certain key FOB's set these things off. I wonder if it's your keys and not the OTC medicine that is setting it off.

  • Insurance or something? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BigZaphod ( 12942 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:10PM (#12272561) Homepage
    Is it maybe some kind of insurance policy that is cheaper if they have these anti-theft things? I too have noticed how most store employees don't even pay attention when they go off. The customers get far more upset than the employees do.

    There was a time awhile back when I used to set these things off almost everywhere I went. Eventually I started to remove one item each time I went to the store. First it was my keys, then my cell phone. The alarm would still go off. Then I tried leaving my wallet in the car and just carry in the cash I needed. Lo and behold, the alarm didn't go off! So after some careful investigation I found that my wallet still had the anti-theft sticker tucked inside an unused pocket. What was strange about this is that the alarm problem had only started recently even though the wallet had been with me for years.

    After thinking about it a bit, I determined that the problem had to be caused by either one of two likely possibilities (or a combination of them). The most likely explanation is that the old security key card I had had was blocking the anti-theft device. I didn't connect to the two immediately, but the problem of the alarms going off began to occur about the time I turned that badge in. The other possible explanation is that somehow the anti-theft device was re-activated. I'm not even sure if that's possible or not, but I had the wallet before I got the job that required the security key card and never had any problem going through those detectors.

    In any case, after removing the old anti-theft sticker, I've not had any problems with those devices. So if you're one of those who keeps setting them off, you might have a look for something like this. :-)

  • I recently reported this (Score:3, Interesting)

    by anomaly ( 15035 ) <tom DOT cooper3 AT gmail DOT com> on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:14PM (#12272594)
    In the following email to Staples after they had this problem: ...my comment about the in-store experience:
    I thought you would like to know that after I bought $350 worth of merchandise, rung up by the store general manager, no less, that the anti-theft system at the front door started going off as I departed.

    I stopped, turned around, and went in hoping that someone from the store would help, as indicated by the automatic alarm warning message. I'm telling you, even though there were a gaggle of sales people standing around, no one FLINCHED.

    I finally started to approach one of the cashiers. From 20 feet away he called out (over the din of the alarm) "Did you pay for that?" I called
    back "Yes"

    He said "Why did you stop? Just keep going!"

    I turned and walked out. Presumably the shoplifters would have done the same except they would not have paused at the door.

    How much money does Staples have invested in this system that is completely ignored? If it's all the same to you, would you please stop
    installing these systems and lower your prices? I'd rather not pay more than I have to.

    Thought you'd like to know.

  • If it bothers you (Score:5, Interesting)

    by $exyNerdie ( 683214 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:20PM (#12272667) Homepage Journal
    If it bothers you too much after you paid for the merchandise and the alarm goes off and you are stopped by the security people, do this - After they are done searching for those items on your receipt, you tell them that now you would like to return those items as you have no desire to take them home after the embarrassment caused to you.

    • I did this at Best Buy once. I bought two floor-standing speakers there (yeah, I was on crack). The clerk who help me and took my money for the speakers was helping me get the speakers to the door. I hoisted one speaker onto my shoulder and began walking out of the store. They asked to see my receipt. I told them I just bought it from the clerk standing right next to me, and proceeded to take the first speaker to my car. I return to the store for the second speaker, and was met by two more Best Buy k
  • Having never set off an alarm before, my life's goal was to set off an alarm walking into a store (not on purpose). I finally accomplished that last December. I walked into one store, carrying merchandise I had purchased from another store, and it set off the alarm. I looked up at the cashiers, and unfortunately, nobody even looked up, so I couldn't gloat.

    When I left the store, though, I set off the alarm again, and this time someone came to me. I just told her that I had set off the alarm when I came

    • Managed that once too here in the UK; bought CD (IIRC; might have been game) from Virgin, walked into Woolworths set of their alarm going in and out; apparently they'd had a few ppl do the same.

      Back to the main point, I've set off alarms before and every time they've just re-swiped it or let me go; never had to be searched.

  • After some experiences during my younger days with very imperfect demagnetizers, I got into the habit of shoving the bag, with my new purchases, through the security field before I step through it. That way, the store droid at the door can see that it was something in my shopping bag that set the alarm off.

    In all cases where I've set an alarm off like this, they've been satisfied with just going through the shopping bag. No insistence of searching my whole person.

  • Oh, it's simple. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 )
    1 - go through detector
    2 - alarm rings
    3 - store bitches
    4 - tell them to call the cops, because only the cops have the right to search you **AFTER** they put you under arrest; warn them that you will sue them for false arrest.
    5 - they let you off, go home. That's it.
    OR 5 - they don't let you off.
    6 - they call the cops. Cops don't find anything.
    7 - sue them for false arrest and defamation of character.
    8 - profit!!!

    Very often, upon finding your innocence, they will offer to settle. Some 40 years ago,

  • my aunt walked out of a store once and forgot to pay, and *did not* set off the alarms. when she realized what she'd done she went back to the store, and set it off going back in
  • I worked at blockbuster for a few months, there was quite a bit of theft. But they had those alarm things there.

    With my mind free scanning endless blue boxes I came up with about 9-10 security problems and solutions that were totally transparent to the customer and staff. They were totally ignored.

    Why? Because I also came up with some inherent flaws that could not be corrected, therefore closing security holes would lead theives to the perfect crime scenarios, the illusion of security bolstered by watch

  • Like many of you... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mrscott ( 548097 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:35PM (#12272861)
    Like many of the posters commented, I just keep on walking. I used to stop, and I used to let them look through my bags - after all, after I buy the merchandise, everything is now *mine* and not theirs. I finally got sick of it since just about every store has this problem. Now, when I'm walking and it goes off, I keep going. If anyone says anything, I keep walking. I did have someone chase me down and tell me I had to come back into the store so my bags could be searched. I hope I didn't run over his feet as I was driving away...

  • interesting (Score:4, Informative)

    by St. Arbirix ( 218306 ) <matthew...townsend@@@gmail...com> on Monday April 18, 2005 @03:39PM (#12272933) Homepage Journal
    This is very old news so I'm not worried about the ramifications of releasing this knowledge, nevertheless I shall be anonymous...

    1) Go to Wal-Mart
    2) Walk up to the electronics check out desk or automotive counter desk and pull a plastic bag off of the rack.
    3) Walk into the games section and pull out one (1) copy of Trivial Persuit
    4) Place Trivial Persuit in bag.
    5) Walk out of store.
    5b) If woman is checking receipts, walk out with larger crowd of people and let them get snagged as you walk by. Ignore anyone saying "Sir.. sir.."
    6) Get struck by lightning. Wal-Mart is on God's side, so you must assume that the converse it true.
    • You'd better hope that someone in the camera room doesn't spot you taking the bag, or else perhaps:

      1) They'll follow you with rotating cameras outfitted with 1200mm zoom lenses.
      2) He or she will radio the plainclothes guard of your location and description.
      3) You'll be stealthily followed as you put the game in the bag
      4) A uniformed guard at the entrance/exit will step just outside the doors out of sight while waiting for a "go" signal over his radio.
      5) As you're leaving, the guard steps out and blocks you

  • self checkout lanes (Score:2, Interesting)

    by fief ( 12961 )
    Self checkout lanes provide me with great amounts of fun in regards to this. It isn't that difficult to figure out which products have the sensors, and since at the self checkout you control which items get properly swiped over the deactivation pad (which is under the scale which is used as the bagging area btw). With a known active sensor, you can either cause your trouble, or you can simply keep walking and have a live sensor to use for nefarious purposes later.
  • I've worked in a large retail store, and I can tell you with pretty reasonable certainty that the point of such detectors is not to detect people shoplifting, but to give the greeters or store security an excuse to stop people they suspect may be stealing. I've even heard tales of security setting the alarms off on purpose to give themselves an excuse to go after someone they know to be stealing (someone who may have removed the tags from the merchendise).

    But aside from that, I think previous posters hav
  • Demand to see the manager EVERY TIME it happens.
    Make it as big of a pain for them as you.
    I have to wonder what right a rent a cop has to detain you? Those sensors are so unreliable they are without a doubt not probable cause. I mean what right does a none police officer have to detain you or to demand a search of your bags.

    • If the sec guard really really thinks you shoplifted, he can detain you while the police are summoned. If, when the cops get there, it turns out that you're innocent, the sec guard is hosed.

      • No, he cannot. That would be bordering on assault/kidnapping. The only thing they can do is scare you into voluntarily staying until the police arrive.

        • Re:Just keep going or (Score:3, Informative)

          by Detritus ( 11846 )
          That depends on state law. If I see you commit a felony, in most states I can arrest you and detain you until the police arrive. Many states authorize merchants to detain suspected shoplifters. Usually this requires that a store employee witnesses the crime, not just because a buzzer went off. See here [crimedoctor.com].
        • Depends on the guard. If it's a plainclothes who followed the person around the store, it's a citizen's arrest.
      • Really? How? I mean if I feel that you are carrying drugs can I detain you? A security guard is no different than any other normal person. I guess he could make a citizen arrest but I am pretty sure that using force to detain you when there is no danger to others would be very illegal. And if you where not guilty than I would say he could go to jail for false imprisonment, assault, and or kidnapping. I see some very big lawsuits coming out of this.

        • Everything I've ever read, typified by this [crimedoctor.com] and this [crimedoctor.com], state that, yes, the store can detain you if you've been in their store, but if they turn out to be wrong, they're utterly hosed.

          • Perhaps you should read your links a bit more closely. They actually say the opposite of what you're saying -- a store detective MUST have probable cause to detain you, and neither link even mentions a door alarm going off being probable cause (it isn't). The first link you post lays out in great detail what defines probable cause and what steps must be taken in order to detain someone.

            A citizen's arrest is really only justified when a person has observed another committing a crime(talking about misdemea

            • Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I agree that an alarm going off isn't an indicator of anything other than an alarm going off.

              My point is that store security *can* legally detain you for the cops, but if they turn out to be wrong, or they go about it the wrong way, they open themselves up to an incredibly big liability.

  • I possess an evil sence of humor, and too much free time, but whenever this happens to me, and they try to wave me on, I DEMAND to have them come over and figure out what set off the alarm. That damned machine just announced to the world that I was a theif, and I demand satisfaction!

    Nipok Nek

  • Home Depot Alarm Redux (Score:3, Funny)

    by Dark Coder ( 66759 ) on Monday April 18, 2005 @04:24PM (#12273579)
    (Bzzzzzzz...Bzzzzzz..Bzzzzzz)

    I'm just standing in line for the self-checkout when I'm watching the doorway alarm goes off at a crazy clip...

    (Bzzzzzzz)

    Sheesh... They never let up... Half of the kin-folks are automatic criminal suspect (Bzzzzz)...

    Now, its time to pray, when my turn is up. That my time and date are decided by a crazed-fate.

    (Bzzzzz)...

    Drat... It got me for no good reason.... Evil eyes lurks on me from all the overflowing lines.

    (Bzzzzz) Oh? It got you too? He he he...Join the crowd, buddy.
  • It was annoying at first, but I've gotten used to it. You'd think they'd use a mechanism that wasn't trigged by common devices, though.
  • It's amazing how much stuff you can buy that is basically the honor system. It is trivially easy to walk away from a restaurant without ever paying the bill. As for the security alarms, most times I set it off, no one stops me. Or, if they do, they just say, "go ahead". Target has stopped me to actually check my bag, but that's the only place I can recall doing that.

  • Physical contact == beatdown (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Wonko42 ( 29194 ) <ryan+slashdot@[ ]ko.com ['won' in gap]> on Monday April 18, 2005 @06:02PM (#12274894) Homepage
    A few years ago I was doing some Christmas shopping at Fry's. This was a horrible, horrible idea because everyone does their Christmas shopping at Fry's, resulting in a mile-long checkout line and a huge traffic jam at the exits where receipts are being checked.

    After finally making my way through the checkout and purchasing my items, I made a beeline for the door, bypassing the twenty or thirty people standing around waiting to have their bags inspected. There was no way I was going to stand around for another twenty minutes after having stood in line for an hour already. As I approached the exit, a Fry's employee stepped in front of me and said, "I need to check your receipt, sir."

    I ignored him, sidestepped, and kept walking. The moron actually grabbed my left shoulder from behind -- not forcefully, but even so it startled the crap out of me because I wasn't expecting to be grabbed. Completely by reflex, I yanked my shoulder away and punched the poor guy in the throat with my right fist (my bag was in my left hand).

    It surprised me as much as it did him, and I felt kinda bad about it for a moment, but I hadn't hit him hard enough to do any real damage. He gave me a very unhappy look and made some strained coughing noises, and I walked away. In hindsight, I don't really feel bad about it at all. I had nothing personal against the guy until he touched me, but as soon as his hand landed on my shoulder, he overstepped his authority. If I'd seriously injured him, I would have felt terrible, but as it is, I think he got a good lesson in how to respect a customer's personal space.

  • ...and the problem I have is that some manufacturers make it impossible to deactivate the tags. For example, I've found that many phone boxes have the tag hidden somewhere in the center of the box, where our deactivation magnet cannot reach. GE even puts the tags inside the phone base stations. Digital cameras pose a similar problem (tag hidden inside battery compartment), but since the box contents aren't packed like a fucking jigsaw puzzle (as with phones), it's easy to remove the tag.

  • Go Ahead! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by boring, tired ( 865401 )
    I worked at a drug store for 3 years. All we ever did when the alarm went off was to tell the customer to ignore it and "go ahead" out the door. It's what the other employees did while i was being trained so I never questioned it. (I didn't want to get into fights with customers either) The alarm gets activated by tags placed on or inside the packaging. These tags are supposed to be deactivated by a pad under the counter at the cash register, (The pads "beep" when a tag is deactivated) but it doesn't al

  • The store personel rely upon the fact that most people don't want control over their lives. The electronic alarm says "STOP", they stop and succumb to the will of the security guard, manager or just about any Joe with an apron or name tag. Nobody is stretching their rights, it's just a customer (or browser) who stops of his/her own volition and offers up his/her person for inspection.

    If they want to accuse me of theft, I encourage them to make sure they have the full blessing of LP and management, and on

  • If one of those beepers goes off, depending on the store, I instantly either
    • Turn and stare patiently at the nearest clerk. They will wave me out the door.
    • Turn and give my best Italian "Whaaaaat?"---with hand gesture---to the nearest clerk. They will wave me out the door.
    • Shout "Goddammit!", turn and glare murderously at the nearest clerk. They will wave me out the door.

    I can't remember the last time I was actually asked to submit to a search. It's been long enough that I can't remember how well I

  • After purchasing an audio CD at a Best Buy, I left with no alarms, as expected. However, walking into another store set off their alarm. The clerk volunteered to erase the security tag. His theory was that Best Buy purposfully releases random samples of un-erased security tagged items, providing other stores with an opportunity to search bags.
  • When some geeky friends of mine came to town, we naturally went to the local B&N to inspect the computer section. Many of the books had electronic tags tucked between the pages. Close inspection revealed that a price of around $35 qualified a book as worth tagging. So I set about removing about a half dozen tags and slipping them into one friend's various pockes, his book bag, pants cuff, wherever. He's usually the amiable, cooperative type, so when the alarms went off, I was sure that hilarity woul

  • On the rare occasion that I trip the alarm, I turn it into a customer relations problem.

    I immediately turn around and go back into the store (ignore the guard, or tell him to walk with you if he wants to talk to you) and march either back to the cashier who checked you out, or to the customer service desk (use judgement). Ignore any line. Slam packages on counter and yell, "Fix it, NOW!"

    This has the following, positive effects:

    • Suspicion towards you is converted into embarassment on the store's part

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