OpenOffice vs. MS Office for Education? 1039
dbrian asks: "I work in a large high school district where there will be some discussion on whether or not to purchase another term of 'Software Assurance' for MS Office licenses on thousands of computers. This seems to be an ideal opportunity to promote an alternative such as OpenOffice. It will not be an easy sell, even though OpenOffice should more than satisfy all curricular needs and save the district lots of money; like many other districts we have political and cultural 'challenges'. So, I ask you, have you been successful in moving your education or business organization from MS Office to OpenOffice? What were the pros and cons from your migration? What advice do you have in selling this to tech coordinators and administrators who are not enlightened by Open Source?"
Demo it? (Score:5, Interesting)
That way you kinda ease them into it.
Just a thought.
what about technical support (Score:2, Interesting)
THere are benefits to using industry standard programs.
Not impossible but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I work as an administrator/application manager at high school, the point you have to consider when trying to switch is:
Documentation, some teachers probably need to adapt their lessons, are they motivated for that and do they have the experience to make a change for them self?
Why should teachers be motivated to switch? Because it is a moral obligation for non-profit organizations to use product that are more suitable for the common good and not just profitable for a monopoly.
Education should be accessible to all layers of society, even the ones that don't have the money to buy "big bucks office".
So by using open source they aren't forced to use illegal software just to be able to get educated.
I don't know about you... (Score:5, Interesting)
So no, we're not planning on moving anyone to Open Office. We have, however, moved a few workstations to Star Office.
Will it be useful? (Score:4, Interesting)
Crappy Tech Policies (Score:3, Interesting)
Openoffice 2 is superb (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a straight "savings" pitch (Score:5, Interesting)
Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Just because OO isn't always perfectly compatible with Office doesn't mean anything since MS Office isn't even compatible with itself sometimes...
I've found (Score:4, Interesting)
Rate me flame bait, but this is honestly what I have found. Take somebody that never used MS Office and only used other products, and put them infront of Word and get them to do something reasonabily complicated, they are lost.
Take the person raised with MS Office and put them infront of OO and they seem to find their way around.
Strange but true! So I have personal reservations about using one or the other in a public (or private) school or body.
we just went through this ... (Score:2, Interesting)
we have spent $22k over the past 3 years on MSCA. this year was the final straw, since MS changed the licensing and is hitting us up for many more things (we are a smaller unit in a big
so, this is the last year we'll be doing MSCA. we have decided that for the next year, we will be educating users about OO (and Firefox) and encouraging them to switch and letting them know that next year, they'll be on their own for MS software packages
Evaluation (Score:5, Interesting)
My Kid's School uses OO (Score:1, Interesting)
She is 6yo and in 1st grade at a private elementary school.
One of the things she had to show me was her computer project. It was an Impress slide show in Open Office. It was a presentation on the solar system, integrating stuff she had done in Draw.
I told the computer teacher (a 40+ year old woman) I was impressed they were teaching them Open Office. As I looked around the room and saw 12+ computers I said I bet it saved the school a bunch of money, if nothing else.
She made a "you know it" face and then said that last year they used MS Office, but it was always crashing and they had LOTS of problems. She figured over the summer, why not -- what have we got to lose. She said it was been wonderful and they haven't had a single problem.
This is heresay, but it is what I heard two days ago at a real school.
Migration to Open source (Score:2, Interesting)
OO.o in Public Education (Score:1, Interesting)
Just remember though, it will take time to have any real affect. You have to build up good will towards OSS in general to fight off the FUD.
HTH
At the VERY LEAST... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The real question (Score:3, Interesting)
Now of course there are exceptions to this general rule. There are some advanced features in MS Excel that I have yet to be able to do within open office. However I doubt the high schools are coverning those things in the first place.
A company hiring kids out of high school is not generally expecting the best and the brightest (as those students are generally going to college at least in the USA). They may expect computer skills, but to the extent that they know how to check things on the web, use a mouse, type documents etc. Hell for the most part I think schools should scrap half the computer stuff they teach kids. Do they really learn anything when they play with putting a million clip arts in a document? They'd be far better off just teaching them to type as well as business skills. they'll go much further than knowing how to make hideous word documents with flashy graphics, or worthless powerpoint presentations with a million sounds and transitional effects. Stick to the basics.
Phil
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:5, Interesting)
This is an honest question. Why isn't OpenOffice experiencing the same explosive success as Firefox? What is keeping these same Firefox "switchers" from getting their hands on OpenOffice, as well?
Re:OpenOffice of course (Score:2, Interesting)
We use Star Office and Open Office (Score:3, Interesting)
The way this came about was I started using it on my own. Whenever someone new came in, I'd set up their PC with Open Office instead of Microsoft Office. Earlier this month, our accounting clerk, the final holdout, asked to switch.
Now the only Microsoft Office we have is on the Macs. And they are using a really old version of Microsoft Office because of one particular feature available on that version.
I've talked to many of the school board members about OpenOffice and Star Office. They keep complaining about the school district being short on money but they still haven't seriously looked at switching.
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:3, Interesting)
My only answer is, that OpenOffice *is* experiencing tremendous growth. My wife actually converted before I did. She got tired of Word blowing up on her all the time and asked if I had something that would work. I sheepishly told her that I could let her *try* OpenOffice, and she agreed. She's never looked back. Shortly thereafter, I started using OO exclusively as well.
The reason why the growth isn't as noticable is that there isn't as big of a marketing push as there was with FireFox. (If you believe the marketing, FireFox will soon pass the 50% penetration range. Not. Quite. Yet.)
Re:Demo it? (Score:2, Interesting)
The point of the post you were replying to was not to sell it on the basis that it was free; it was very clearly and very obviously to focus on demonstating its features. The post very very obviously saw being free as a disadvantage in the minds of the audience and something to be worked around.
Your response was simply idiotic. Yes, there are costs involved - how does that contradict his post? He wasn't saying "tell them it's free". He was saying "demo it before they know it's free so that the lack of price doesn't put them off".
Apple office (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:3, Interesting)
Some important points (Score:5, Interesting)
Schools are, in general, far better placed than large companies to switch to OPenOffice. That doesn't mean that it is an easy or painless transition, merely that it is a lot easier than it is for corporations to make the move.
Jedidiah.
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:2, Interesting)
It impressed me instead (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I did my graduate thesis presentation in OO.org 1.1.2 on my Linux box. Problem was students graduating had to upload their PPT files on a WinXP, Office 2003 machine.
Since my university was aware that PowerPoint presentations are particularly sensitive to Office version changes (let alone OO.org!), they allowed students to "test" their PPT files on the machine they would have used the next day.
My PPT was almost OK. There were minor issues: some font rendered slightly differently and arrows and graphs needed a bit of care. But it was nothing more than 30 minutes of work, and it was absolutely comparable with corrections people using non-MS Office 2003 had to do. I was pretty satisfied of OO.org this time.
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:5, Interesting)
it will not open older Word documents in Office 2003 that were created in office 97 correctly. OO.o opens them far closer to the actual desired output.
yes, this is true, after upgrading marketing tyo office 2003 we had a rash of complaints opening word documents from 1998 was causing problems or looked wierd.
microsoft cant even be compatable with it's self.
Re:Demo it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Even as an OO user, I have to agree with you. Open Office does not have much penetration in the corporate space, so why put it in the schools? Kids need skills to be competitive. Yes you could say that proper training will make them able to adapt and learn software, but unfortunately they are taught rote monkey skills and are unadaptable (typically). Teach them the skills they need not the ones that appeal to your oss vanity.
Re:Demo it? (Score:3, Interesting)
But for what I use it for, it's mostly usable, albeit not pretty. It's fine for letter writing, or timesheets. But writing a technical document is painful due to the missing outline mode and nasty graphics.
I've used the 2.0 beta and some things such as drawing have improved massively even if there is still no outline mode. I'm still not sure I'd believe it cost the same as MS Office. To use the US vernacular, I'd probably say 2.0 is software "of $150 value".
Did I mention there's no outline mode?
Re:Demo it? (Score:1, Interesting)
Why do you think they aren't? (Score:3, Interesting)
People are flocking in droves to OpenOffice. It just doesn't get as much press as Firefox.
OO.o works on WIN95 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:what about technical support (Score:2, Interesting)
I've had Word documents corrupt in such a way that the corruption was only recognised later (it occurred when you scrolled to a particular page). All the backups had the same corruption because it was there but not spotted. So, we had to print, scan and OCR the files and then reformat them all.
L.A. Charter School 100% OpenOffice (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's quite simple really: (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Laziness
2. Ignorance
3. Word outlining
4. Powerpoint Presentation mode
5. Laziness
6. Never heard of it--no killer marketing campaign ala "Get Firefox"
7. Better the devil you know
8. It's not what people are comfortable with.
9. Envelopes. I still can't get them to print the way I expect.
10. Annoying type-ahead that's always wrong. (Yes, you can turn it off, but see reasons #1 and #5).
11. Data entry in Calc sucks. (can't they get Tab/Return to accept your entry, without autocomplete?)
12. Help sucks.
Why switch?
1. Save $$$
2. Cross platform
3. Encourages style use
4. Built-in bibliography
5. Save $$$
6. Bullets and numbering actually work (if you don't save as Word)
7. Great templating ability
8. Built-in vector drawing--can replace Visio for basic diagrams
9. Consistent UI across apps
10. Master documents ACTUALLY WORK, without LOSING DATA.
11. Page, frame, and list styles.
12. Word feels clunky, overengineered, and awkward after you get accustomed to OOo.
Re:Demo it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Just last Wednesday, actually. I took an Intro to Access class and an Advanced Excel class at work, for two reasons:
(1) They were free. Free is an actually free - even got paid as if I was still working.
(2) Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I don't know very many people that really know how to use Access at all, and definitely don't know how to use Excel's advanced functions. Granted, I don't know all too many of the programmer type (anymore at least), so most of the rest of the people I've seen find using it difficult.
To get back on topic though, OpenOffice is an excellent program, and I hope he succeeds in switching them over.
Re:Hard one (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like you guys (well, the business department anyway) should be looking for good textbooks period--even if you stick with MS Office. (Though I don't know if any exist in that genre.)
I used to work in the computer lab at a community college. I couldn't stand all those stupid textbooks (they don't really deserve to be called that, BTW) that "taught" the student in terms of step-by-step click at the mouse coordinates kind of lessons. Nobody actually learned anything about computers.
No learning meant that students had questions, which meant less time for me to play Doom. And they were always stupid questions. My favorite was the time when somebody brought the book and told me they didn't know how to do it. I read the book back to them and they walked away contented! If only all problems were so easily solved.
Let computer students change the code (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Demo it? (Score:1, Interesting)
What office productivity suite are the majority these students most likely to be expected to have proficiency with when they enter the workplace?
I agree with other poster s in saying that it's preferable that students learn how to use software in general so they aren't hamstrung when the software they have to use isn't exactly the same as what they have experience on, but failing that...
Re:Hard one (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to teach computer skills at a college level (Intro to Computer-Aided Engineering), and we didn't bother with a textbook for that reason. What we did was present them with a finished product, some useful tips (e.g., Need to change font color? Look under Format...), and then turned the students loose. It was my job to assist as they worked, and generally make sure that everyone was on track. If they had questions, I would generally say something like, "I don't know, but let's see if we can find it." The fact that I, the authority figure, also had to look for things really drove home that using software is just remembering simple rules, not remembering how to do everything in every program. I even got a nomination for the department's 'Teacher of the Year' award (not that I was elligible, being a TA and all) from someone in that class.
Of course, as we got into more complicated software packages, I had to teach them the basics of programming, Finite Element Analysis, and drafting as well, but by that time, most of the students had picked up on the fact that if they looked, they would find it.
Re:OpenOffice of course (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, Indoctrinate them into your belief system early.
Re:Since when does Office cost anything? (Score:1, Interesting)
Generally, the story involves MS's push to the school|district|corporation to remain or go to MS software. When the door has been shut & sealed, it's been made in no undercertain terms they might as well be present at "oh-dark-onehundred" for a unit-by-unit inspection for any license in arrears.
I have similar experience (Score:3, Interesting)
1) district tech people will get freebies er, um, demos, from microsoft. you know, windows server, visual studio, etc., to "tryout" as it were. gonna influence their decision
2) people will already have 1000's of prior docs in
3) "if it's free, it can't be good" and "it's what they use in the real world" will prevail. schools are no longer institutions of learning, but exist simply to train workers. i could cry. we don't read nor write nor think anymore. sorry to kvetch. but, there is a mindset about "Office" and you're just a salmon.
4) teachers get a copy for home. so they think they're getting a steal. kinda hard to overcome that.
5) here's the glimmer of hope. set up a small lab with OO.org. since the really expensive thing for schools is hardware (software is actually pretty cheap. they want to get the kids hooked.) set up a linux thin client lab, or a linux lab with older computers. then use OO.org there. the other thing is this: since you can't give Office to the kids, but you can OO.org, make a technology plan to have a "give the kids a CD day". perhps if the kids turn in work in
6) another alternative. since much school hardware is OOOOLLLLDDDD, try abiword. it's small and fast. that'll get them interested in OSS.
look, I've been a teacher for ten years and been excited and shot down too many times to tell you. am I cynical, sure. you're going up against a beauracracy who doesn't care about saving money. remember, they have to do budget burning too. saving them money screws that up. sad but true. i hope you get this far down.