Cell Phone Service as High Speed Internet Link? 461
Gorm the DBA asks: "I live out in the boonies, where Cable is just another word for what the telegraph guy delivers and the nearest Central Office is over 27,000 feet away, so DSL is at best a (fat) Pipe Dream, and dialup speeds top out at 17,700baud on a good day. Currently we have satellite internet via DirecWay, but it's expensive ($60/month) and VPNlike applications are not supported, never mind gaming (high latency), which reduces it's utility dramatically. At the same time, I've been looking at getting a new cell phone. I see that Sprint, Cingular, and others all have cards that you can plug into your computer and use the cellular network to get data. The claim is 'wireless online surfing as fast as DSL'. I've confirmed I'm in the coverage areas, but is this really as good as they're making it sound? It's pricey ($79.99/month, plus the cost of the card), but it would be portable as well. Does anybody have experience with this sort of technology? Is it ready for prime time? Does it really work? Is it worth it? Is the internet access real, or a filtered 'You get what we want you to get' sort of thing?"
Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
I've had to explain this to angry executives who couldn't dial in from the cottage/ski hill/resort so many times, I sound like a broken record. If you're in an area where the wired signal is awful, you can basically rest assured the wireless signal quality will be much worse. Wireless is by nature a less reliable medium, because it's passing through air and trees and walls -- as opposed to copper. If you're located somewhere so far from civilization that the wired infrastructure can't handle basic data, then neither will wireless. Don't believe the sales people. :\
Possible exception: your dad's the farmer who gave up part of his field for a cel phone tower. But even then don't bet on it.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
Chances are, that you'll have great phone service in places where there are no land lines.
Many third world countries which never had land lines is skipping that step and going directly for wireless.
At least this is what I've heard.
I'd be glad if anyone could substantiate or refute this.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Cell internet is like the Force (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. CDMA2000 1xRTT or EDGE both deliver around 80-150kbps in the real world, with gateway latencies in the 600ms range.
Even Qwest's crappy cheap DSL is 256kbps (~200kbps actually), and even with the crappy interleaving it's only around 35ms to the default gateway (~100ms to Google). That's considerably better in both bandwidth and latency then the cellular technologies.
Not to mention that even Qwest offers 1.5mbps and 7mbps tiers, SBC has 6mbps, and Verizon offers 3mbps.
So, no, DSL is considerably better. Not quite up to cable standards (~6mbps with uncompressable data, 10ms gateway latency) in my area, but still quite good.
I use it. (Score:5, Informative)
The bandwidth is limited by two things: Network throughput and network load. I believe that the fastest (non-major-city) cell phones go up to 155kbps (I get 15.2 max kBps.) I'm using Sprint because, when I researched it a year ago, they and Verizon had the fastest networks for this sort of thing. Network load just means that if there are lots of people on the same tower as you, your connection will not run at full speed. I've rarely seen that happen with mine.
Run a search on different types of cell networks and make sure you have a signal with a fast one. I used to use Nextel, and it was like 1/5 the speed of dialup with 1000msec latency and downtime. That was on the old analog network.
Also, you know you can buy powered signal boosters for every type of signal? If you're in the boonies and want more signal, you might get one of those.
Email me if you want, put slashdot into the subject
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
We use aircards in cellular routers (Score:3, Informative)
Not horrible, but.... (Score:5, Informative)
Worked fine for e-mail and casual web browsing, but if you're interested in gaming, keep looking.
Its ok.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:2, Informative)
Its easiar to put up a tower then it is to string miles of conductor.
Hell, 90% the people my age at work don't have land lines, they have cellphones.
Verizon and soon Sprint (Score:2, Informative)
Options... Options... Options... wifi? (Score:5, Informative)
If the latency for the DirecDish is an issue for you, then the latency from the celphone wireless will likewise be an issue.
I've linked my PDA and my laptop to my celphone via USB, IR, and bluetooth. I've tried it with 3G(1x) via SprintPCS(vision) and Cingular GPRS/EDGE.
All I can say is that on a celphone, you expect there to be delays. It is, afterall, a low-processing power device. On the laptop, websurfing is "okay".
With SprintPCS's vision plan, I found that I got a pretty good xfer rate of around 60kilobits per second to around 120 kilbits per second. Yes, that is kiloBITS. So, compared to the poster's dial-up speeds, that is much better. Note, though, that this is near a cel-tower with good reception.
In poor reception areas, you can expect around 9.6kilobits per second to around 14.4 kilobits per second.
If that's your only option, then it isn't a bad way to go. The highest speed you will be able to achieve is around 144 kilobits/second with the current generation of tech. This should grow to around 384kilobits per second as more of the next-gen tech arrives, but it still isn't what it should be. SprintPCS Vision does some kind of caching and image compressing, so you will get better rates, but lower quality images for web pages.
With Cingular, GPRS gives you 14.4kilbit/sec dial-up connection. With EDGE, you are supposed to be able to get 384 kilobits/second. I've experienced issues where given a good signal, you will still get less than admirable rates due to contention with other folk and with other voice usage of the network.
Verizon has their EVDO which is promising 1.5mbit/second capabilities(wireless DSL, basically). Haven't used them yet, but people who have used them say they are pretty good. They have pretty good coverage as well, so that might be an option. Without EVDO, you are basically dealing with the normal "wireless dialup" speeds as noted above.
If you are thinking of doing gaming, voip, etc... look elsewhere. For email, web surfing, and maybe newsgroups... ie, non-time sensitive applications, then wireless connectivity could be a good fit.
Another option is perhaps a long-distance 802.11b/g link with a neighbor. Ie, find someone who actually has a chance of getting good service. Work out an agreement with them and then have them setup a line-of-sight wireless (wifi) link to your place.
You become dependant on them for connectivity and possibly end up investing more in hardware, but you will have much better bandwidth and much better latency for games/voip/etc.
Sprint - 230.3kbps (Score:2, Informative)
I have the service (Score:2, Informative)
Things are looking up. More hi-speed areas are coming - but they are major metro areas. If I were you I woulcn't plan on getting any kind of decent throughput out in the sticks..
Not in Duluth, Minnesota (Score:3, Informative)
Forget gaming and VPN (Score:3, Informative)
It's got horrible latency, though, so you can forget gaming. Just to test, I fired up counterstrike to test, and I get latencies between 1-3k, the same as in other games I tested.
Now, this was the low speed service, but I doubt the high speed service has better latency. However, for $5 a month, it was an awesome internet connection for a mobile home.
Terms of service prohibit use of wireless as wired (Score:5, Informative)
Sprint "Vision" (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes this service might be the right choice for your main IP connection, if you don't have DSL or CATV options, but the main reason for IP over cellphone technology is mobility.
Re:T-Mobile Internet Unlimited (Score:5, Informative)
Cingular works (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:3, Informative)
I've used Verizon and Cingular (Score:5, Informative)
Back in November, I switched to the Verizon service with the PC5220 card. Mac OS X supports it natively with no extra software - I just had to input my phone number settings and it worked. For the first two months I settled for the slower 1xRTT service, which seemed to me to be about twice what I could get with dialup and was still better than what Cingular had been giving me. At the beginning of January, Verizon turned on EV/DO in the Boston area, which has generally been an excellent performer. Most everywhere I travel routinely for work is EV/DO enabled, and the card automatically uses it when it has a signal, otherwise it falls back to 1xRTT.
Service for the data-only cards is $80/month for unlimited use. No, you can't run servers with it, but you wouldn't want to. It's a real good option otherwise for a laptop user.
I have a client using the service with the Audiovox PocketPC phones - they love the always-on sync and the capabilities of the device, but they hate the phone itself and are switching to standalone phones for voice (they have two of the PocketPCs now).
Re:Agreed: Don't Do It! (Score:4, Informative)
And just like satellite, you have high latency. Sprint Vision will give you ping times that skip from 400ms to over 1000ms. Currently, there are no providers offering low latency broadband over cellular that I know of. I remember reading about a trial for a very small area that was supposed to begin soon somwhere in North Carolina I think, but as I recall, it would involve a forklift upgrade to get nationwide coverage.
For years to come, broadband over cellular will not be low latency for rural areas. Those are usually the last to get upgraded towers. Naturally, infrastructure upgrades happen where the customers are first.
Take it to the EDGE (Score:2, Informative)
Speed - OK. Latency - BAD (Score:3, Informative)
1xEV-DO has a peak throughput of a bit over a megabit. You'll see about half that or less realistically. EV-DO is only available in a handful of metropolitan areas right now.
Also, both EV-DO and RTT have very high latency. I recently talked to someone very familiar with the technology (works for a company that's developing what is basically 4G wireless), and apparently EV-DO has 300-400 ms latency.
WISP (Score:2, Informative)
Verizon LG VX6000, USB Cable, and Software = 140K (Score:5, Informative)
Being in the boonies, you might not be able to get the 1x network service. On the LG VX6000, you can tell by looking for the "1x" service icon that apperas whenever the 1x service is available.
The drawback to this, of course, is that your phone is your "modem", and must be connected to your computer during the Internet session; and you will not receive phone calls during your Internet session. So it's okay for periodic use, but may not be suitable for an always-on Internet.
In my uses, I was able to use SSH, SMTP, POP, HTTP/HTTPS, and AIM. So for my needs, it was effectively unfiltered. One thing that was annoying was the auto-idle-hangup that would kick in from time to time.
Also, for web-surfing, there is an accelerator software that you can run that would compress images at a (user selectable) higher compression to speed download times of web pages.
That said, are you sure you are so far off in the boonies that you can't find a wireless ISP? A good WiFi transceiver with the right antenna could easily give you 1 or 2 Mbps over many many miles...
Huge diff. in technologies, and coverage areas (Score:2, Informative)
You can expect roughly "dialup" (~ 40-100 Kbps) speeds with all of the other carriers. Only Verizon can offer you anything close to DSL speeds at the moment.
That will change in a couple of months when Sprint launches the same EV-DO technology as Verizon. Then a couple of months later, Cingular will launch their high-speed network, based on WCDMA/HSDPA technology.
When Sprint and Cingular launch, hopefully we will see some price competition, so now might not be the best time to buy, if you can hold out.
All of these services, by the way, only work in select metro areas. No wireless carrier has high-speed data available throughout their whole coverage area yet (not even close).
Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular compared (Score:3, Informative)
Here are some nominal numbers for the technology that's been around for the past few years:
Cingular GPRS: 32-48 kbps
Sprint 1X CDMA: 80-120 kbps
Verizon 1X CDMA: 80-120 kbps
Of the newer crop of technologies that are coming out:
Cingular EDGE: 80-200 kbps
Sprint EV-DO: 400-700 kbps
Verizon EV-DO: 400-700 kbps
Of course, "your mileage may vary"... Cingular's EDGE service is more accessible than the other "new technologies" at this point because it's a simpler technology that really just allows your wireless device to combine multiple channels at once for higher speeds. Make sure your wireless card supports EDGE and that EDGE is available in your area before going with Cingular. (Plus their customer service is awful, but that's another story...)
Sprint and Verizon's EV-DO technology is currently available in 30-40 major cities, which doesn't sound like it will help you any but it may get to your area eventually. In the mean time, their 1X CDMA gives you better than dialup, so if you can be happy with ~120 kbps, this might work for you.
Most cellular companies give you 15 days to cancel service without paying any penalties, so I'd ask about availability of EDGE and EV-DO in your area, then pick one and try it. (Or pick both and try them.) Run some broadband speed tests (http://www.dslreports.com/stest [dslreports.com] and others) at various times of day and see what kind of speeds you're getting. If it's too slow, return it and get your money back, though you'll probably lose your activation fee and have to pay a prorated monthly bill.
Don't give up on DSL just yet... (Score:3, Informative)
Couple of years later, the local telco got smart and started installing curbside DSLAMs, called 'Stingers,' to serve areas that were more than optimal distance from the CO.
Stingers consist of a single high-speed copper or fiber link back to the central office (usually at least a T3 or its fiber equivalent) which is then split out into DSL pipes for however many subscribers they planned for.
They're wonderful inventions. My download speed went from an average of 256K (if I was lucky) to over 768K practically overnight, once they switched my pipe over to the curbside terminal. It's been utterly stable ever since, with only a brief outage caused by an extended neighborhood power failure (and my servers went down because of that same outage anyway).
My advice would be to bug the crap out of your local telco, and find out when they're going to install a few neighborhood DSLAMs.
Keep the peace(es).
"Abuse of bandwidth" and huge fines (Score:2, Informative)
Well, check that EULA, cowboy, because in a lot of cases (heck, I even found one in my comcast cable EULA) there's a special "appropriate use" or "bandwidth abuse" clause that will allow them to slap you with huge, I mean thousands of dollars in some cases that I saw, if you do things like p2p or streaming video.
The other problem is that the provider, in every case that I've seen, won't tell you where the threshold is that unlimited is no longer really unlimited. It's based off some calculated cost of carrying your subscription that the corporate office usually doesn't even share with their CS folks, and if they do happen to know, they won't share it with you the customer for fear of disciplinary action. Once you pass that nebulous line, your account is shut off and any data transfer you got in before they noticed and shut you off (nope, it's not even an automated process)is charged to you to the tune of something around $0.25 a K. We had one college student run Kazaa or something similar on her CDMA connection for month, doing megabyte after megabyte over the limit, and she, no joke, ended up with a bill in the neighborhood of $23,000.
In any event, speeds on our network, which were heavily connection-strength dependent, ran an average of probably 120k, and were effectively faster for html traffic with the provided compression software. It seemed like an ok tech for mobile professionals of the sort who don't always have time to go to a hotspot to send and receive e-mail, but I would recommend it to very few people outside that rarefied set.
Re:Rule of thumb: Wired Wireless (Score:5, Informative)
Not entirerly true. For years, the majority of AT&T's long distance network backbone (Long Lines) was wireless. When old timers refer to the "Bell standard", they're referring to a rock-solid telephone network that actually ran mostly over microwave long-distance transmission facilities. When engineered in point-to-point configurations where each endpoint is a known quantity, wireless (aka microwave) has nearly identical reliability to modern fiber transmission systems.
Point-multipoint wireless (e.g. cellular last-mile) is a totally different animal in that you have your subscriber endpoint that is often mobile and nearly always at locations you have never engineered for. Your cell engineering becomes an estimate for coverage rather than actual end-to-end engineering, and subsequently has issues with fade and interference from objects, terrain, etc.
That said, if you're looking for reliable last-mile rural service, consider fixed wireless. Properly engineered, it will match any cable or fiber system.
*scoove*