What You Should Know When Taking a University Job? 384
FyreWyr asks: "I've been working professionally for more than 10 years, and recently returned to school to refine my skills, and potentially, to change careers. In the meantime I'm seeking income from my University in the most practical fields, i.e., my old technical career (programming, networking, etc). So, a programming job has become available, and with it, questions. While I've done my share of business consulting, I've never worked within a University pay system, and further, project interviews have not revealed a clear project scope. Wanting to accept the project, I'm now working on a basic project overview WITHOUT compensation so that I can (get it reviewed, and) kick out an appropriate time estimate and salary. Can anyone provide 'wish-I-would-have-known' issues regarding the politics, expectations, and monetary realities of working for a major department within a large University?"
Always have a scapegoat (Score:2, Informative)
"The program doesn't run on windows."
"You asked for a linux platform, it's running flawlessly on linux."
"TOLD YOU GUYS, IT'S JOHNS FAULT IT DOESN'T WORK!"
believe dat!
Written/signed agreement (Score:3, Informative)
Oh yeah and don't forget about the partying ^_^
Tuition (Score:5, Informative)
A lower salary, counterbalanced by tuition and other benefits, may be reasonable trade off. Just make sure you will get the benefits before you take the job.
Re:Same as any job (Score:5, Informative)
1) The stress level is a lot lower than commercial work. You're not going to get mandatory overtime, people have more of a sense of humor (sometimes, myself and others will randomly add drawing onto a whiteboard in the break room during our lunches, so the next time you see it the image has evolved), and you generally don't have an axe hanging over you all the time (although, if you're paid from grants, there is more risk). True flex hours are common, dress codes are more lax, etc. The main issue that people care about is that you get the job done, and do it well, within the deadline.
2) The administration is a huge bureaucracy. It will take forever to get travel reimbursements, requested information, and even changes in employment status. It limps along, though.
3) Salaries are low. Benefits are high. Workplaces tend to be tolerant (race, sexuality, etc) and in general liberal (depending on your views, this could be a good or bad thing; for me, it means I can adorn my office bulletin boards with antiwar/pro-civil-liberties posters, and only get good comments about them
What you should know? Nothing. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Watch out for the Parking Nazis (Score:2, Informative)
Warning: Benefits at State-supported Universities (Score:1, Informative)
The problem is that the Social Security Administration will dock you for the time you have worked for the state.
If you work for a state-supported university or grade-, middle- or high- school be certain that you understand how pension is paid and whether or not Social Security benefits are affected. I know of several people who lost benefits because they were unaware of this loophole.
Ask current employees .... (Score:1, Informative)
Consult current, and if possible previous employees, at the university. I'm also not referring only to people in the same or similar departments. Go talk to a ground crew guy, a student aid who might have some insight into how things work around there, etc.
Go to the source instead of getting 100 replies on here that only tell you to build a beowulf cluster using old servers the engineering department dumped in a closet 5 years earlier.
job at a university (Score:2, Informative)
First, remember one important fact: the university exists for education. While I have no idea what kind of position you are really taking, if that is a support department job for teaching/research, remember your job exist so that you can offer the service for researchers/faculties/students so that their educational (or research) experience is more enhanced.
While this seems a logical simple idea, many non-academic departments have no idea on this at my institution (and many other ones). Often, purchasing department have all the sorts of crazy rules that we must comply, and ordering sometimes takes as long as 6 months here. Worse, sometimes, the order we made somehow gets lost in the system that we have to re-do the order (2-3 months after we originally make the order). Those people prevent us from doing our research and teaching sometimes. Coming from an academic department stand point, that is completely screwed up.
Second, don't expect much in pay. When we were interviewing candidates a few months ago for one of our staff position, the top candidate (and he was really good) didn't take the job in the end, as the pay isn't good.
Third, for the most part, staff jobs at a university could be very flexible. Many people work less than 40 hours/week (and getting paid for 40 hours). I swear our secretary works only 25-30 hours/week (she comes in often late, leaves early, takes several breaks throughout the day, takes 1.5 hour lunch at least, etc). Of course, some of us work very long hours, too (I work 60-80 hours/week at work, plus many hours at home). However, in my case, it's not like I have a set hours I need to be in my office and around. I just work that much willingly. Also, during the summer months, some days, I would go home as early as 2 PM.
Fourth, as far as the job goes, it could be very flexible. My job consists of many different things: I am a chemist, network administrator, engineer, programmer, mentor (to students), consultants (to my colleagues), researcher, graphic artist all at in one day. I have learned how to do a lot of things that I doubt if I would have never been able to outside. Of course, I suppose this could change a lot depending upon what exactly is your position is (It appears that in non-academic departments, there are less job flexibility).
Fifth, in many cases, you can dress very casually in academic jobs. I don't think I ever had to wear a tie entire day at my work (although I keep a set of clothes including a tie in my office just in case when I have to). During the summer months, I often go work in shorts and sandals, and nobody question me on that. During the school year, I normally show up work wearing jeans. I don't even own a suit any more (although I have a few jackets).
Sixth, be prepared for some (incredibly) imcompetent and lazy people. I don't mean students. I mean other staff/faculty members. It's relatively hard to get fired in a university (in many places). We have a guy in the accounting who just did not bother to process any payments to the venders for 3 months last year. This guy's primary (and only) responsibility in his job is to pay the bills to the venders, but he did none of that for 3 months last year. This actually screwed up our budget a big time last year (not surprisingly). Well, this guy still has his job in the accounting office, believe or not.
Would I ever give up my job for anything else? I don't think so. I love my job. I worked for a company for a while, and that sucked. My current job is a dream as far as what I concern. Politics could get bad in some places sometimes, but often I can get away with steering clear away from that. If you feel a need for the freedom in your work, academic job could be the greatest thing in the world.
Re:Working for a University (Score:1, Informative)
Salary is not the only way you would be a second-class citizen at the university, but it is a very obvious way.
My Experiences (Score:2, Informative)
The pay isn't the best (I had received offers for more money), but the people I work with and the opportunities I've received are outstanding.
Expect to work closely with a professor, a post-doctorate, grad students, undergrads, and all sorts of folks... and forge good relationships with all of them. that reference from the professor, or the good word from the post-doc when he starts working for IBM (or another random large company) can go a long way.
Look into cheaper (or even free) tuition. I know that the guy next to me gets free tuition in exchange for his work week, so he stocks up on night classes, and has gotten his masters and is working on a PhD.
The work environment is going to be very casual -- as long as you get the job done. I am assigned 40 hours per week (on my word -- no timecard), and I can work whatever hours i want. I've worked nights, weekends, whatever, to fit my schedule best. Eventually I settled into a 7-3 shift (I like mornings) and it was embraced by all my coworkers, who took it to mean that I was very hard working
Make good friends with the office accountant (or secretary, if there is none). Get her/him gifts and engage in conversations. Basically make them a buddy, because you need to make sure your paychecks come through, as well as your reimbursements and travel costs.
My 6 month co-op term is up, but I'm going to be staying on and working for another project. The office got a new project, and was interviewing undergrads for it. They didn't like any of the candidates, so they grabbed me and interviewed me, and asked how I'd like to work for them some more. I accepted and now have another term of work with them, doing some really amazing research work. In fact, we're competing for a very large government check, and if they choose our design and buy our IP, I reap a dividend check, as an undergrad (and my chunk will be large enough to pay my tuition and buy me a house afterwards). So I've got some pretty good inspiration.
To sum it up:
1) make friends with everyone
2) follow up on paperwork, especially with the accountant
3) don't bs anyone -> there are people in the office who know much more than you and, most likely, can call out your BS by pointing to a white paper that says the exact opposite of what youre saying
4) deadlines are going to come. ask for help from your coworkers if you need it. finish early.
5) find a way to get cheap/free tuition. school is expensive. take nightclasses and cheat the system.
hope that helps
-mike
Scary that I can actually answer this... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ask current employees .... (Score:3, Informative)
I ask a wide variety of people for feedback on most questions.
Things to know (Score:1, Informative)
Second, be prepared to deal with the biggest egos you've ever seen. You might think things were bad in corporate, but you won't believe what happens in universities. Some of these people are real bastards; just steer clear... if you end up working for one, just switch departments when you can. The bastards just won't change. The inter-department politics between professors is something to behold.
Be prepared for people that take credit for things when they go right, but deny all responsibility when they go wrong. I know a few of 'em that would never ever admit they made a mistake or made a bad decision.
Be prepared for a boss taking all the credit for projects during demos and things like that, and who won't even acknowledge that you did the work... this happens less often, but does still happen. When others refer to the project it's usually "XYZ's project" where XYZ is the boss, not you.
If you ever work on an academic paper, be prepared that your boss will likely throw their own name on it, even if they haven't written a word. This seems to be a universal practice for some reason.
Some other things:
Salaries vary WIDELY. When I worked for a university, I was very well paid (at least I thought so). Other people weren't. A lot of this depends on who you're working for; I've worked for people that give good raises, and I've worked for people that don't.
Vacation time is pretty good. Usually between 4 and 6 weeks; that's not counting holidays, or sick time.
You'll have to pay for parking. So does everyone else. It sucks, but you'll have to do it.
If you work for a academic department (as opposed to an institute), you may get a nice office, you might not. You're always the low guy on the totem pole in academic departments, so if a new faculty member shows up, and they need office space, you might lose your office and get a worse one, or you might have to share with someone.
No matter what they say the work is going to be when they interview you, be prepared that things won't be exactly as they stated. It's usually much different.
Take advantage of the eateries around campus; they're usually pretty good.
Take advantage of university discounts on computers and software. Some universities have site licenses that include your computers at home.
Just be prepared to be called "sir" by the students; you might not feel all that much older than they are, but you are, and they'll treat you that way.
Be aware of the politics around the groups or your department, but steer clear of it if you can. You won't be able to win those battles; those other folks live for it.
Some of that sounds bitter (and, well, it is), but a good department with good co-workers and a good boss makes for a fun job, just like corporate.
Good luck
my $.02 (Score:4, Informative)
i started out as a student worker, with very little (3 months) outside experience, but with a healthy curiosity and a few years of hacking on stuff on my own time. i have since graduated, been promoted 4 times, achieved approximately an 5-fold salary increase, and changed departments twice. i've had a net very positive experience working at the university, and recommend it to anyone who is not already on the dot-com-dollars treadmill.
however, i think it's a lot like any other job, for the most part--if you can stand the salary, and you like your boss and co-workers and most importantly enjoy what you do, all the piddly shit like appeasing the bureaucracy and occasionally getting trumped by a PhD kind of falls by the wayside.
since i'm basically getting paid the same thing i was as a worker at the startups i was at (minus sometimes worthless stock options and signing bonuses), i include only the pros and cons that are university specific--for instance, i've always had flex time and an extremely casual dress code (tshirts and sandals have always been allowed), both in industry and in academia. and of course, you have to evaluate your situation; i've always worked for research-heavy departments, but a job at the student union (doing the same kind of work) carries a different sort of interaction potential--not so many people who are actually into learning, more morons and bureaucrats.
pros:
- 40 hour work week. i love my work, but even more than that, i love having a life outside of work. i actually get *paid* for any overtime and it is almost never mandatory.
- great job security. if they even want to fire me for any reason not related to breaking the law, they have to give me a year's notice (they have to lodge a complaint that i am told about, and let it sit for a year before i can be dismissed).
- cool toys. we get donations of the darnedest things. i was probably the first person in my state to run linux on a pentium pro (got a prerelease box from intel to do benchmarking on. that took a researcher one day, after which he told me to do whatever i wanted with it). we have some huge clusters, and sun is constantly trying to donate interesting (if not amazing) things to us, like a cluster of thin clients and a beefy server to back them up.
- very relaxed atmosphere; there are deadlines but there aren't many of them and they're rarely hard. nobody has ever said "your failure to deliver on time is costing us $X!"
- some free tuition (currently a $6000/year value if you play the system for all it's worth), potentially leading to a degree if you want it to.
- working in an environment where the value of learning is well-understood, and continued education is encouraged and to some degree funded.
i mostly just enjoy working with smart people, and with people who are motivated to learn about solutions to their problems instead of having me solve the problems for them.
- access to all of the resources of the university: gym, olympic swimming and diving center, libraries, libraries, libraries, museums, university-only events (mo rocca once came to speak; you needed a university ID to get in, for instance. usually concerts, plays, sporting events, etc are cheaper for university personell in addition to students). as well, the university subscribes to a lot of services (lexis nexis, encyclopaedia britannica online, OED online, online magazine/research repositories, etc) to which i automatically get access.
- best 401k plan i've been offered. vests after a few years and gives a 2.3% * (years employed at any salary) * (highest average annua
Whats the Difference? There is a BIG difference!! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Working for a University (Score:1, Informative)
Toward the tail end of the boom Caltech reslotted their non-PhD technical staff into new paygrades for technical work. Word on the street was that they couldn't keep admins and software people from leaving to industry jobs when the paygrades were scaled to reward people for advanced degrees. I saw my bachelor's only programmer salary raise 10% at that time.
The rest of parent's experience is mostly still true, except that benefits are eroding in academia too, and there's less security than there once was, when you're working on government money (well NASA, NSF, NIH money anyway).
Re:Ask current employees .... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Working for a University (Score:2, Informative)
A confused postdoc. Postdocs have shitty salaries (approximately 2x a grad student salary), at universities at least. I'd expect staff to be paid better tham them.
But back to the University and Politics, the other thing is that if you're not a PhD, then you probably won't get to be Principal Investigator on grant proposals, and that means you'll be constantly in the shadow of someone else no matter how good the work you do is.
A confused poster. Principal investigator is a research position, and for various rather obvious reasons (e.g., the funding agency will expect it...), it's expected to be filled by a researcher. A PhD is a "token" that others believe you can do research, without one you'll need some other evidence that you can do that job (e.g., you're famous in the field). A bit of a catch-22 of course, but what do you expect?
Hated It! (Score:3, Informative)
One of the posters above hit the nail on the head: Universities sell degrees. What this means is that the pressure is on to pass students no matter what. This means that students that know nothing get degrees. I heard of a case where a student went to one of the senior staff members and asked to give his degree back because he had realised that he had learnt nothing! I eventually got sick of being told to adjust the marks to pass more students. We were given "guidelines" about the average number of students that had passed in previous years. These guidelines then became the minimum required pass rate. Even the senior staff who had been presenting the same course at the same level for decades were forced to adjust marks to lower their standards. My conscience could not let me be part of a system where second year electronics students still do not know the difference between series and parallel circuits.
Publication pressure was a major issue. Teaching chewed up most of our time, so there was very little time for anything else. Yet we still had to publish 1 publication credit per year. But there was a catch! A journal paper is only 0.75 credits. And the credit for a paper is split equally between the authors. This meant that a person studying towards a degree (anyone without a PhD) had to produce 3 journal papers per year because half of the credit went to their advisor. The senior staff loved this idea because they got lots of journal publications for an hour meeting a week. The young staff had no opportunity to progress because they always had too much work to ever produce enough publications to be promoted.
Universities are mad about patents and intellectual property at the moment. The upshot of this was that my contract with the university said that anything I thought of in my field of specialisation belonged to the university. Sounds fair? Except that being a lecturer in the department of electrical, electronic and computer engineering meant that that was considered my SPECIALIST field. But that was still not broad enough! The dean of the faculty told me that I was also a specialist in mathematics! The upshot of this is that ANYTHING I did belonged to the university.
And this included consulting - compulsory to establish university credibility and the main way to supplement one's salary. The university forced us to work through their company for anything we did, and that company took 20% of the turnover (not profit) of the project. The problem was that this included nothing. We still had to pay for lab time, equipment usage, lawyers to set up contracts, accountants to sort finances out, etc.. The best bit was that they collected payment from the client, and only way to get our money out of them was through the university's bureaucracy. Basically to do the compulsory consulting we ended up having to jack our prices up by 20% making us uncompetitive, and having to fork out the money to fund the project until the university decided it was time to pay us the money we had earned. It was basically a way for the university to make money for doing nothing while passing the risk to its staff.
In the end I was glad to leave. I do more interesting work, work less hours, get credit and pay for the extra effort I put in, and do not have to deal with the bureaucracy and politics any more.
My experiences... (Score:2, Informative)
There are a lot of similiarities and a few notable differences. The biggest difference comes from a general difference in direction for the organisation. HE institutions aren't profit-focused and as a result a few things happen:
1. The dynamics of the politics is somewhat different - without profitability driving everything forward the prestige is shared out between different departments on very traditional views of their worth rather than any realistic impression of their contribution to the organisation. The main point for you here is that IT gets less prestige in HE than in most profit-chasing organisations.
2. A lot HE places don't run projects on the people+plan+leader+timescale+resources model. They run it more along the person+er??? model. It's really worth checking how a place puts its projects together before signing up or you can end up being lost in an under-resourced project that goes on forever.
3. Resourcing... HE isn't rich but it has access to some resources very cheaply. So - research grads to help out, books, network access, training, labs etc are all likely to be relatively readily available whilst some of the more traditional resources (money, equipment etc) may be a little more scarce.
4. The head-honchos. Working out who you need to impress in a HE institution can be trickier than it looks. Often the people with the power are very much behind the scenes. We love our figureheads and we love, even more, for them to have no real power whatsoever
Hmmm... hope the above is helpful
Interview (Score:2, Informative)
University technical jobs (Score:2, Informative)