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Rugged Mini-DV Camcorder for the Road? 209

Posted by Cliff from the movies-on-the-move dept.
step asks: "As part of my job, I (and my colleagues) spend weeks at a time on the road, doing science shows for high school students. To review our work, we carry DV camcorders to tape and watch our performances. Unfortunately, all the previous models we've tried haven't lasted more than 12 months on the road (and not from lack of care). When returned for repair we were told that they weren't faulty, just not up to the task. We don't need a full feature camera, just solid reliable recording and playback. In fact, simple is probably better to accommodate the most users. What experience has Slashdot had with camcorders? What's a good model that can handle lots of travel?"
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Rugged Mini-DV Camcorder for the Road? More

Rugged Mini-DV Camcorder for the Road?

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    • It's so small, I feel it might easily get lost!
    • you'll also need a recorder to go with that camera. might I suggest the TR-70, which only requires 4 CFM of dry compressed air for the air bearings, and uses both silicon and germanium transistors for finest performance. it's already high band!! you can fit both the TR-70 and the TK-41's control head into an articulated bus, and tow the 15 Kw generator behind.

      http://www.lionlmb.org/quad/tr70b_1.jpg [lionlmb.org]

      or, if you don't bang it around much and keep it clean, try a canon elura series, my -65 has been good s

  • Sony PD-150 (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You can probably find one for less than $2000 now. Maybe even closer to $1200-1500 used in good condition. Great, great camcorder.
    • Second! Great cam.
      Thou... If they said they can't get any MiniDV cam to last more than 12 months, I wouldn't put my money on semi-pro cams either.
      There has to be a line of products for extreme conditions from some company. I haven't seen such this far.

      (*doodles with his Sony DCR-HC19 which has so dinky foily mechanics that even loading a new cassette is a risk*)

    • I dunno about that. They're a pain in the ass to use (for example, if you set the white balance and then adjust the aperture, you can't change the white balance again without undoing the aperture setting), and they don't really hold up all that well. My school gives them out to film students, and they're in crappy condition after only a couple of semesters of use--people complain about dropouts all the time, even though they're DVCAM and should be more or less immune to that (and that's not to mention all

  • Solid state video recording (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OriginalSpaceMan ( 695146 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:31PM (#12877069)
    I have been looking for a good DV cam to use for a long time, but I didn't want to use miniDV, I want to use flash ram. Recently Panasonic has come out with a whole line of them [panasonic.com] that use SD cards, but they're a little pricey, and you can't get much video at DVD quality on one SD card. I don't know about the durability of the hardware, but at least this option would take out all of the mechanics.

  • Rugged Manly cameras (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PhaxMohdem ( 809276 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:33PM (#12877081)
    Unfortunately I do not know of very many rugged mini dv cameras. The high quality camera designed for being beaten up are generally Betacam or DVCAM professional cameras for News stations and such. Its unfortunate that no company has come out with a "Toughbook" camera, but nice compromises can be found. Naturally the rule with consumer and prosumer camcorders is the bigger they are the harder they fall and more stuff they break. I personally own a JVC HD1U camcorder that is great, its has a steel handle on top so you can lug it around much easier and safer. I've had problems with cheap consumer Sony Cameras going bad after a jolt or two. My advice, go to Best Buy or whatever flavor of electronics megamart you prefer, and bang on some of the display models for a while. You'll get some funny looks, but that will be the best way to see what cameras are up to the task.

    • Re:Rugged Manly cameras (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ... and bang on some of the display models for a while.

      Good move. Go to a store and buy which ever camera you don't break. I'm guessing they will also make you pay for the ones you managed to break.
  • might I recommend a professional model? It is much more likely to hold up to the wear & tear + duty cycle you are looking at subjecting it to.
    • The higher end, Canons (eg XL2) Sonys and Panasonics have better transports (assuming you don't want to go full-blown pro). The low-end consumer grade cameras were meant for pretty low usage. I have worn the heads out on these before anything else. The problem with high end cameras is they are bigger and cost more, but tend to have better built ports, better heads and transports that were designed for more use. They also wear out, but it takes longer, and they are less disposable than cheaper models, a

  • Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:3, Informative)

    by geoffeg ( 15786 ) <geoffeg AT sloth DOT org> on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:34PM (#12877092) Homepage
    You didn't say what exactly the problem was with the camera you had. If it was build quality, tape mechanism problems, dirt getting in the case, etc. You might consider checking out the JVC hard-drive based line of camcorders. I see it as the next natural progression in camcorders to get rid of the overly complicated tape loading mechanism. They're pricey but they're VERY cool.. look for the JVC Everio GZMC200.. 4 gig drive, 10x optical zoom, 2 megapixels. I want. :)
    • These take CF cards and are supplied with a 4GB microdrive - so if moving parts are not your thing (but spending lots of money is) then you can easily pick up a 4GB Ultra II.

      There are two models I'm aware of - one has a 3 CCD pickup sensor which sounds very interesting. From the stuff I've seen, the lense lets the camera down with the previous model (non-3CCD) but this may be different now.

    • Real hard disk drive based camcorders coming soon. (Score:4, Informative)

      by EasyT ( 749945 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @08:26PM (#12877411) Journal
      Those 4GB Everios mentioned in the parent post use Microdrives, which are little miniature hard drive platters small enough to fit in a CompactFlash form factor.

      For those that like the sound of this line of cameras but would like to see more storage capacity, JVC has apparently announced they're going to start making Everios using 20GB and 30GB hard drives. This new line will supposedly support Mac editing in iMovie for those who want that sort of thing (older models did not offer this). I've attached a the link to the JVC press release for those who want to read up about it.

      Reference URL:
      http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=461&pageID =1 [jvc.com]

      Disclaimer: Please note that I do not own an Everio, nor any other camcorder, so I am not in a position to make any authorative recommendations or comparisons, let alone attest to their durability. My opinions are void where prohibited.

    • According to my numbers, a 60 minute miniDV tape is about 15 gigabytes. And is removable for multiple tapes, which is a far cry from 4 gigabytes.

      Four gigabytes can only hold about 16 minutes worth of DV quality video. I imagine you could lengthen it by using MPEG-4 but there probably are compromises involved if you plan to do a lot of editing with it.
      • The DV video format is basically not compressed. It's designed for just one thing: very low CPU usage, so that the parts are cheap.

        It has a bitrate of 25Mbps, compare that with MPEG4: less then 1Mbps. For the same quality video I might add. Even a DVD is 5Mbps, and that is MPEG2 - which also was designed for low CPU (and memory) usage. (MPEG4 if it's not obvious was designed for the best compression possible.)

        There is no problem with editing, the only reason they don't use MPEG4 is CPU usage.

        Useful [videohelp.com]

        • Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Wednesday June 22, 2005 @08:01AM (#12879722) Journal
          No, DV footage is compressed, basically MJPEG. What DV does not do is interframe compression. This is not to reduce CPU usage, which is a minor problem (after all, MPEG-1/2/4 hardware encoder chips are relatively cheap). This is done because it is a bitch to edit interframe compressed footage. If you want to cut somewhere other than a keyframe, you need to at the very least add a pair of keyframes, which causes a bandwidth spike in the result. Then, when you encode to something else for deployment you have to insert keyframes in different places, and you end up with a huge drop in quality.

          Oh, and MPEG-1/2 also has some additional design constraints that were removed for MPEG-4, such as the requirement to be able to easily skip one frame backwards (MPEG-4 was designed for streaming, MPEG-1/2 were designed for local playback), so MPEG-4 doesn't encode reverse-interframe information. If you want to jump one frame backwards in MPEG-4, you jump back to the previous keyframe (often 100 or so frames back), and then calculate the deltas for every single intermediate frame. Try editing that...

          As to the link you posted, I am very suspicious of a chart which groups Sorenson, MPEG-4 and Cinepak in the same column...

    • It would seem that the 30+ GB iPod drives would be just about the same size as the tape cartrige. But hey, if they put firewire on these you can always pack a 60GB iPod photo to sync to!

    • This was what I thought.

      I bought a Sony camcorder three years ago, and it still works like new. I expect that this is because I don't use it very often for filming. In fact, it gets more use taking stills than shooting film. But it gets carried around a lot, even more than my Canon SLR.

      My brother in law also had a Sony camcorder, but he used it a lot. The tape transport gave up a few months ago. Repair would cost as much as a new camcorder...

      If the weak part of the camcorder is the tape transport,

    • Would it make sense to not even use the tape drive on the camera? Could you just plug a firewire to a laptop and dvgrab [schirmacher.de] the video directly to a computer?

      If the tape drive is the most frigile part of the camera, this would extend it's life.

    • The tape mechanism is the weak point in camcorders of any type. All those highly miniaturized interacting parts can become bent or dislodged easily. I just fixed my brother's Canon ZR1 over the weekend. Damn thing seems to have only one screw holding the head assembly in. Jar it too hard and the assembly can rotate, causing head sync problems and blocking/dropouts. The head assembly is easy enough to turn back, but jeez. DV cameras are also VERY touchy about the tape guide alignments.

      I have no idea why, in

  • Panasonic (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ianmalcm ( 591345 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:38PM (#12877119)
    I highly recommend the Panasonic PV-GS150 [panasonic.com]. We used it to stream LiningUpTV for 6 weeks on the steet of Hollywood Blvd, 24 hours a day. That camera is a workhorse - it survived torrential rainstorms, bleeding hot sun, drunk transients throwing it on the ground, and other insane hazards. The GS150 ran for 1000 hours straight, and is still working great.

    It can be had on Ebay for $600 package deals.

  • Try asking people that really abuse their kit.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:41PM (#12877139)
    Most skydivers and other extreme sports types have cameras these days. I have a (now old) Sony PC9 which I have helmet mounted (oo-err) and has survived quite a lot of jumping, skidoo riding, heli-boarding (-30c) and general snow boarding.

    It has finally started giving me grief however, not at the tape transport, but the auto-focus mechanism (which sometimes sticks).

    My advice would be to post a polite note on a skydiving forum and find out what people there recommend.

    Good luck.

  • Inexpensive redundancy. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by OgGreeb ( 35588 ) <og@digimark.net> on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:45PM (#12877159) Homepage
    Given the reasonable price of Mini-DV camcorders, you'd be better off purchasing two or three identical units and rotate their use. If something fails you can pull out the backup. You might also find it useful to record your work from different positions and edit them together.

    Since you asked, I've had good experience with a hand-sized Sony DCR-PC9 -- it's been beat up but remains completely functional and reliable.
    • Exactally. If you keep killing cameras, rather than pick up a professional Beta or DVCam (assuming you don't actually need the pro features, which it sounds like you don't), get several MiniDV cams. Treat them like something that gets out; replace when necessary.

  • Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:5, Informative)

    by NeedleSurfer ( 768029 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @07:49PM (#12877195)
    No offense meant to anyone, it's just that Slashdot is the worst place I've been for audio visual advices. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the only professionnal here but we are few and our words often get lost in the sea of audio and video wannabees that speaks well and hence look like the real deal.

    I've heard some of the worst misconception about audio and video on these forum spoken as if they were the mother of all truth and moderated +5 something because of it.

    Anyways, In my experience the Panasonic AG-DVX100AP is a very good camera for the price and it's very sturdy, we are using it for coorporate events and music shows where we need to do a lot of travelling shots or if we need to move a lot between shots since it's light, hold pretty well and has a very good picture, the quality is surprising, then again it's a 3CCD camera if I remember well so it does help. As for extra sturdiness use a road case with internal padding, you know those case that are reinforced with metal, are usually black and are kept close with those cool twist-latches, they are expensive but they are also worth it.
    • +5 something

      As long as it's +5 Funny, that shouldn't be a problem though? *ducks*

    • I've heard some of the worst misconception about audio and video on these forum spoken as if they were the mother of all truth and moderated +5 something because of it.

      Hopefully anyone who has counted the number of posts in this topic suggesting the use of MPEG-4 for editing will realise this very quickly...

    • Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:4, Funny)

      by Karma Farmer ( 595141 ) on Wednesday June 22, 2005 @08:52AM (#12879970)
      No offense meant to anyone, it's just that Slashdot is the worst place I've been for audio visual advices.

      That's just because you know a little bit about audio-visual. I assure you -- if you knew a bit about other tech subjects, you'd quickly realize that Slashdot is the worst place for any kind of advice.
    • As for extra sturdiness use a road case with internal padding, you know those case that are reinforced with metal, are usually black and are kept close with those cool twist-latches, they are expensive but they are also worth it.

      The best known brand of such is Pelican [pelican.com]. They can protect against fairly high drops, are watertight and durable, and float pretty well... assuming you close the case after putting in the camera. However, if you visit the Everglades, remember the case does not always remain waterti

  • Some of the new HD cams are using hard drives. The real benefit is virtually no moving parts beyond the disk. They also do standard definition and would probably be fairly good for what they want.

    These units are intended for news crews and come with a bit of durability.

    That's really where he wants to look. It's not like people don't use cameras strictly in home.

    So pick up any broadcast professionals mag and peek about. Though they do tend to be fairly expensive.
    • I'm not certain how well hard disks will stand up to shocks. I've got a separate 'bullet camera' and recorder for attaching to gliders and light aircraft, and I purposely avoided the hard disk recorders because I'm not sure they'll be as G-tolerant as a tape drive. I went for a Digital-8 recorder (I've found the Sony Digital-8 camcorders to be able to take quite a beating).
  • You should do an economic analysis of the cost of getting a rugged camera vs the cost of simply replacing the cheaper consumer level ones every 9 months or so. Also, consider buying a replacement warranty from some place like Best Buy.

    It's got to be cheaper to simply replace the Sony every 9 months using the Best Buy warranty than it is to buy one of those pro dvcams. A typical pro level camera is around $5k and up, so you have to get 10 years of use out of the pro one to make it worthwhile at 0% interest
    • Don't forget that you'll need two of the cheaper best buy warranted cameras to do this. You'll probably wait 3-6 weeks for repairs, so a backup is in order. You should probably have a backup anyway, if this is a tool for you to make money. If your job is to videotape things, you don't deserve a second chance if you ever have to tell a client 'my camera broke'.

      The upside to raping best buy's program is that you'll get 100% of the camera's purchase price to spend on a new camera when they declare it unf
  • Seriously. I've owned several, and none of them has lasted very long.

    Solution? Buy a mid-priced one at Best Buy, along with the extended warranty. If you're likely to need it (and you likely will), the extended warranty is a bargain. My first two Sony MiniDV cams both failed just after a year. The Best Buy extended warranty will cover it for four years.

    Yes, you will have to let them repair it if it breaks, which can take a couple of weeks. But the $200 you spend on the extended warranty is less t

    • Extended warranty! How can I lose?!
      (that episode where he becomes very smart... until he decides to go back to normal)

      Take a look at some midrange digital cameras that have good video clip & audio recording. Oftentimes you can even do some minor editing and trimming on the spot.

      I've pretty much stopped taking my miniDV camcorder anywhere since I got a new digicam. My Canon Powershot A85 camera can record quite a bit of low res video and audio on a 60x 1GB CF. It can only do 640x480 at 15fps for ab
    • Better still, buy Digital-8. I've found it to be robust, my Sony Digital-8 camera has had pretty rough treatment since I've had it (and has the dents and scratches in the casing to show for it!)

  • sorry to break it to you (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @08:06PM (#12877299)
    Sorry to break it to you, but you are not going to get a consumer product which lasts for more than a year under regular use unless you are very, very lucky - and I do mean luck.

    Consumer products are designed to break so that you'll buy a new version a short time down the road. That's why all consumer products should be considered an expendable good. Surprise! Most new companies come out with a new product version at least anually - perfect timing for designed obsolecense!

    If you want something that's rugged and repairable, you're going to have to purchase a device that costs enough to make repairing it economical for both you and the company - in other words, something that's very expensive and 'industrial'. It won't be easy to use.

    Cheapest, best route is probably to keep slugging it out for the 'cheap' consumer brand stuff and hope for the best.

    For what it's worth, both my brother and I have Canon Z40s. My brother has used his constantly for the last two years (well, quite often - a couple hours a week, I guess). It's a little body worn, but it still works fine. Mine works fine as well, and I like their product over what the others offer. *shrug*
    • Sry I don't agree, we have been professionnally using consummer pieces of equipment for several years without any defects. We don't buy pro CD players for example, they sound a whole lot better but are proportionnally weak in term of sturdiness. Actually when you think audio and video, the general rule of thumb is pro=quality and consummer=sturdy. Of course there are exceptions that will cost you a lot but they honestly aren't worth it, I'll explain:

      1-Studios don't need sturdy
      2-Live don't need pristine, ju
      • Nonsense! I take it you've never even been near a studio.

        Studios most assuredly need sturdy where it counts - in the internal parts of the device. This often also means the outside needs to be sturdy, as they get used a lot.

        I don't care what it is, but something which is used consistently every day of the year for several hours (such as a news camera) is going to have to be very, very sturdy. Some of these cameras cost as much as a good lawyer's annual earnings. A "cheap" professional digital camera can c

  • Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pagercam2 ( 533686 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @08:07PM (#12877308)
    Don't spend large amounts of money, get the cheapest one you can find with reasonable features and quality and just allow for the fact that it needs to get replaced every so often. I'd much rather have to buy 10 $200 recorders instead of one $2000 which might get stolen misplaced or break in a fall. Get an expensive pair of sunglasses and you'll lose them in a week, get a cheap pair and you can't throw them away!!!
    • Mod parent up. Yes! 100% insightful. Better have TEN $300 camcorders than have one $3000 camera. Note: JVC makes some wonderful budget camcorders that can be had for $300 or even less. Best video quality you'll get in this price range will be a JVC. The other thing - If you've seen the Fog of War with Robert McNamara and remember the egg packaging anecdote, then I highly suggest you no longer look for a "rugged" camcorder but for a good protection from a camcorder case. Lowepro makes some good ones that'll
    • With the $2,000 (hell even a $600 one) you will have broadcast quality video vs. digital 8 looking homevideo out of the $200 ones. Buy a good bag, a can of airduster and a lens cleaning brush and your set with the good one.
    • "Don't spend large amounts of money, get the cheapest one you can find with reasonable features and quality and just allow for the fact that it needs to get replaced every so often."

      That's great until it fails in the middle of a shoot. Don't forget the part of the question that involved them spending weeks on the road.
      • You quoted "just allow for the fact that it needs to get replaced every so often." and then you said "that's great until it fails in the middle of a shoot." -- did you not read what you quoted? You need to allow for the fact that it needs to get replaced every so often. This means carrying a backup (a spare, if you will) camcorder, just in case, and swapping the two as needed.
        • Well, THAT's great until it fails without you knowing it. The biggest problem I have with MiniDV is that it looks like it's working fine, then the next day when you go to play it back, OOP sorry, the heads are dirty/misaligned/etc and your day's shooting is gone.

          I'm holding out for a $500 MPG4 camcorder with a 6GB microdrive in it and decent quality image. I bet it's not far away, since Panasonic already does that with SD, though I don't know what the video quality is or the versatility of the lens (IE 2

  • Try this.. I am using it for my own documentary... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @08:11PM (#12877323) Journal
    The Panasonic line.

    I am embarking on my two year bike journey/documentary. You can see it at worldcyclist.com [worldcyclist.com]

    What I am using is a 3 CCD chip (A MUST!) Panasonic PV-GS120 (the 150 has replaced it). It has a few drawbacks, no deal breakers though. It has a cinema-like mode, not true 16:9 shooting. It does have a stereo mike input which, with 2 Radio Shack lavaliere mono mikes and a stereo y connector, works pretty good for interview subjects.

    Before buying any Mini-DV get the manual from Amazon, you can download them usually.

    Before you know it people will beat down a path to your door if you have a good idea. I have a proven Emmy winning director assembling mine, the book already optioned and a sponsorship from Sugoi apparel

    I also smoked for 20 years, am slightly overweight and am 39 years old. No one is more surprised than me.
  • Have you considered just buying obsolete VHS camcorders from garbage sales/flea markets/eBay, running them until they die, and then disposing of their corpses? If you're justing making recordings for your own viewing, ye olde analogue video tape should be good enough quality.

  • underwater camera? (Score:2, Informative)

    by zogger ( 617870 )
    I do not have a digital video camera recommendation, but as far as tough goes, the best film camera I own was designed as an underwater camera (low-end hanimex, forget the model, buried in the junk someplace right now). Tough as nails, takes great snapshots on dry land and looks "normal" as cameras go, ie, no weird plexi housing over a regular camera. Perhaps look at those manufacturers who make such UW cameras.

  • sony vx-2100 (Score:2, Informative)

    by Advill ( 732652 )
    the sony vx2100 is a rock solid camera. extremely sturdy. i have one and i love it.
  • I hope you got the extended warranty on the cameras you have used in the past. I would think you could almost ignore the toughness of the hardware if you could get it replaced/repaired fast enough under the warranty coverage. You'd probably end up with a new camera every 12 months, but only pay for it every 3-4 years.
  • How about one that has a way to dump my old Hi-8 footage into it?

    I've been looking for one with RCA or SVideo in, but can't find one anywhere. I didn't want to have to buy a eyeTV or some separate deal for something I expect to use once. Any suggestions?

  • What exactly would the difference between rugged and replaceable do for you? For example (and this is purely numbers out of my butt, like most /. numbers/poll results/stats/etc) if a ruggedized camera that will last 4-5 years costs $1500, but a cheap one that you can get for $250 lasts 10-14 months before replacement is needed, can you budget to just do the annual replacement? I'd also think that camcorder tech has a trend sorta similar to the computer world - wait a year and its either half price or twi
  • The Canon Optura Pi isn't made anymore, but I got mine used on eBay for around $800 about three years ago. I do seem to find that older equipment (when profit margins were higher) seem to hold up longer. I've had no problems with the case or electronics.

    There is one caution about the MiniDV marketplace and that is lubricants used on the tapes themselves. Different manufacturers use different ones. The MiniDV tape standard doesn't say what the lube on the tape is, so there are two popular kinds in common u

  • Ask on DVInfo (Score:3, Informative)

    by angle_slam ( 623817 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @09:27PM (#12877749)
    I'll agree with the other poster who said /. is not the place to ask A/V questions. Try DV Info [dvinfo.net], which is a DV site frequented by a lot of professionals.
  • This isn't really an answer to the question, but how many opportunities do you get to comment on your rugged mini-DV camera?

    Back in January of 2000, I made an semi-impulse buy of a discontinued model from the JVC CyberCam line. My wife was in the hospital about to have our second child, and I ran out to the camera shop to buy a digital video camera. It was a pretty good camera and I liked the DV format and all that -- and it served us well for the birth and beyond.

    Then one day I put it on top of our Exp

  • Samsung! (Score:2, Informative)

    by HaXoRqUaCkS ( 623799 )
    I actually work at a large electronics retailer and we have a new samsung sport mini-dv camcorder that should hold up to you needs. it's coated with a rubberized material and was actually made to get banged up doing extreme sports and other ruff activities. it holds up to regular wear and tear much better than anything else on the market. it is not really a simple camcorder in that it has a lot of features the really expensive ones do + some exclusive features but, here's the best part: well under $500!!! y
    • I actually work at a large electronics retailer [...] unfortunatly i do not remember the model # and am too lazy to look it up for you! =-)

      Yeah, but the bit about being lazy was already implied when you said you were an employee of a large electronics retailer (^_^)

  • Club racers often use bullet (or lipstick) cameras for recording different angles of in-car video. They are cheap, relatively tough, and can go in (or on) places where camcorders can't go.

    Those cameras take all kinds of abuse from racers -- loading and unloading along with the vibration and jarring of a practice session, qualifying, and a race. Most folks seem to use DV cameras for input but if you like, you can record directly to a laptop computer (providing that you have the proper inputs and a suffic

  • Ok, what I'm going to say is going to sound heretical. And I know you're probably budget strapped, but if you need a durable camera, you need to work UP the product line, not down.

    The $3-700 consumer camera is designed to be a wall wart that you, the consumer, sit on the shelf, and use to film the occasional family event, and if it breaks, oh well, it's broke. It's cheap enough to get a new one, and likely, much "better".

    In order to get a durable camera, you have to get what's considered a "pro-sumer" cam

    • By your arguments, I'd suggest just buying cheap ones and letting them break. Buy a second as backup, if you want. At $300 each, it'll take a looong time to break even on that GL1. In fact, as time goes on, price comes down, and features go up - a digital camcorder that fits the basic requirements will probably be in the $150 range in a couple of years. At an attrition rate of one per year, it could take a decade before he'd have layed out what a GL1 would cost.

      steve
      • If a $300 dollar camera breaks half way into a once in a lifetime performance, how much is that lost footage worth?

        Or, what if you drop it when you're getting out of the truck on the way to the performance, on a saturday night? The more expensive camera allows you the peace of mind that you'll be able to dust it off and keep using it, as opposed to wondering where all these little bits and pieces on the asphalt go.

        I'd be willing to advocate having a good camera as the primary, and a cheaper one as a backu

  • Buy it from Costco (Score:2, Informative)

    by TimfromCal ( 761104 )
    Don't know if this has been posted, but I've heard Costco doesn't really care about returns even a year or so later, so if they aren't up to the task, take whatever you buy back, get your money back and buy another :P On a durability note USC Film School uses the PD-150's for their incoming Grad students (or PD-100's for undergrads), and they last quite a while (based on the condition I got mine in) so I'd second that recommendation (which I did see higher up). They're more expensive and a little bigger th
  • If you have a laptop that can accept video in you can use any
    number of very durable helmet cams and store your video
    compressed on your laptop. Kind of kills two birds as I'm
    guessing you ultimately take your DV and make it available
    on web or by cd anyways.
    • Yes good idea, as long as you're running a wireless video link. Otherwise, the guy wearing the helmet cam will have to carry a $1000 laptop to record instead of a $300 camcorder.

      • You don't have to wear it on a helmet. It can be mounted on
        anything, for instance a tripod just like a regular camcorder.
        This guy didn't indicate if they are recording from one
        fixed location or if somebody is constantly changing the
        recording position. If they need mobility, then yes you are
        right they would be better with another alternative.
  • The Sony VX2100 and PD170 (they're almost the same camera, but the PD170 has a few more professional features) are generally considered the most rugged and reliable mini-dv cameras around. I've heard some statistics and general anecdotal evidence indicating that they're much more durable than the Panasonic and Canon models in the same range.

    They are favorites among skateboard video makers, documentarians (), and professional videographers in general. I have heard people talk about having dropped, kicked, a
  • Yeah, I wish I could find a good rugged came for my Lawn Mower Racing [mowfast.com]. Right now we are thinking about mounting a cheap old camcorder to the hood and just using a capture card...but a reall dv cam or wireless cam would be really cool. THe problem is with rolling your mower. That hurts the cam.
  • I bought the DCR-14E or whatever, base DV model with Zeiss optics. My gf has left it out in the rain overnight, no ill effects. I once dropped it from my backpack doing 210km/h on my bike [gpz1100.com]. The flimsy fake leather bag got more or less shredded, but the camera got only a small scratch on the lenscap. I'll try dropping it into a volcano next.

  • Digital solid-state camera (Score:3, Interesting)

    by maitas ( 98290 ) on Wednesday June 22, 2005 @10:51AM (#12880876) Homepage
    If you don't need any fancy feature, you will be better of with a cheap digital camera that have no moving parts on it.
    The Olympus Stylus Verve looks grate. It's water resistant, cheat, very nice overall. It's movie mode have a 320x200 pixels resolution (half a mini-DV camera) and can store 21 minutes of movies in a 512MB card...
    If you need better resolution camera, you can get the Sony Cyber-shot® DSC-S40 that has a 640x480 movie mode with 30fps, but it's not water resistant...

    Any digital camera will last far longer than a camera that have moving parts...
  • Get a half-isa PC/104 board. Get a laptop harddisk. Get a USB Camera. Get a DD battery pack.

    Unite all 4 with duck tape.

    Go filming.

    If the USB camera does 640x480 at 30fps or more, you have something that generally produces better pictures than a much more expensive and fragile digital camera, and you cant record movies on the same media too many times.

    Oh and you'll need lots of perl scripts.

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