What is Mainframe Culture? 691
An anonymous reader asks: "A couple years ago Joel Spolsky wrote an interesting critique of Eric S. Raymond's The Art of Unix Programming wherein Joel provides an interesting (as usual) discussion on the cultural differences between Windows and Unix programmers. As a *nix nerd in my fifth year managing mainframe developers, I need some insight into mainframe programmers. What are the differences between Windows, Unix, and mainframe programmers? What do we all need to know to get along in each other's worlds?"
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
An idea... (Score:5, Funny)
You could try exchanging porno links to one another, that seems to be the way nerds bond. Just a thought.
My guess... (Score:5, Funny)
A better name for this article... (Score:5, Funny)
Answer: (Score:2, Funny)
1. Windows bad
2. Unix good
3. Linux better
This is Slashdot, what kind of response did you think he was going to get?
Re:I'm going to go with 'smell' (Score:4, Funny)
it's easier than you think (Score:4, Funny)
1. Learn to CamlCase your API, variable names, etc.
2. Turn all '-' or '--' into '/' in command line arguments.
3. Use 'dir' instead of 'ls -l'
For Windows devs:
1. Learn to lowercase all your API, variable names, etc.
2. Turn all '/' into '-' or '--' in command line arguments.
3. Use 'ls -l' instead of 'dir'
A summary: (Score:5, Funny)
Linux programmers don't know how to program with a GUI.
Mainframe programmers wonder what a GUI is.
end humor transmission.
Does it Measure Up? (Score:5, Funny)
The length of the beard?
Don't reboot (Score:5, Funny)
simple (Score:3, Funny)
laugh. it's a joke.
Re:Good question. (Score:3, Funny)
I'm curious as to which definition of MF you're using...
Look in the trunk (Score:4, Funny)
Re:An idea... (Score:4, Funny)
Not the best assumption. (Score:5, Funny)
That is not the best assumption, as the Windows app is likely to be running alongside Bonzi Buddie and at least 7,000 pieces of malware and virii.
From what I remember. (Score:3, Funny)
AHH (Score:2, Funny)
#1 Cultural Difference (Score:4, Funny)
What the hell, I'll byte... (Score:5, Funny)
1. Windows is teh bestest, like EVER!
2. Unix is ok, you get good at typing...
3. Linux stole from SCO!
I will now invite retorts. (ducks)
Re:A better name for this article... (Score:5, Funny)
Great suggestion! (Score:5, Funny)
You are sooooo right, and if you handn't posted as an AC, I would have sent you this sweet link, called goatse.cx, to cement our friendship.
Ah. Ok, here are the differences. (Score:5, Funny)
A) Fanatic Windows programmer: Refuses to use any software not made by Microsoft or an approved Microsoft partner; openly mocks Linux, unix, Firefox, and you when you suggest any of the three; programs exactly the way Microsoft tells him to in MSDN articles, and is deeply distrustful of any different approaches; loves IE and is laden with spyware and viruses, but refuses to admit it, saying things like "it's the hardware; I need a new machine".
B) Normal Windows programmer: Uses Windows because it's what everyone else has (and he wants to sell them things); uses Firefox and generally avoids IE; understands that Windows is limited and imperfect, but finds it useful for some subset of tasks; is interested in Linux but vaguely irritated by Linux fanatics calling him a sell-out. Secretly wants to eat spicy Schezuan with the Linux geeks, but not that fanatic with the blue hair (she's too freaky);
2. Linux (2 sub-phyla):
A) Fanatic Linux user: despises Windows users, seeing them as the zombie hordes following Bill Gates, his Satan; throws things at Windows users when they're within range, shouting "Shoo! Shoo! Get back on your short bus and go home!"; compiles everything from scratch to install, because otherwise he'll feel unworthy; generally only uses "Free" software, eschewing anything even remotely non-free, which seriously limits him. Secretly feels betrayed by the moderate Linux users, wants to eat Schezuan with them but knows that Windows guy will be there, so goes for pizza instead.
B) Normal Linux user: Uses Linux because he doesn't have to worry about spyware and viruses (much) and can simply use and enjoy his machine without having to put up with a lot of annoyances; is intrigued by Windows but dislikes the Windows fanatics, who make fun of him (he suspects they live in a town with lead water pipes, and forgives them in pity); he generally doesn't care what other people use as long as his Slackware instance is running well; he occasionally uses Knoppix to rescue one of his Windows-using coworkers when their registry gets corrupted; Secretly enjoys the look they give him after he recovers all their data, it makes him feel Wizardly. LOVES Schezuan food.
3. Mainframe users: Aren't sure what all this "Linux" and "Windows" nonsense is about, and suspect it's a fad the kids are following; Are very fond of their new VT-100 terminal (2400 baud! Kick ass!); Are starting to suspect they might be in for some trouble -- they've had to page all their data off disk to tape a THIRD time this month, how can their disks keep getting full? They're 40MB!!! SOMETHING funny's going on... Are secretly nervous about the boss and that young intern kid and the new box they've been setting up in the corner; those two keep giving us significant looks, what IS that, some kind of new networking thing? Bill over in tech support said it had "blades" in it...; and they still laugh about how "Emacs Makes A Computer Slow". Ha ha ha! Snort!
Biggest culteral difference (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What the hell, I'll byte... (Score:4, Funny)
Not that I blame - I can't be bothered to come up with a clever retort, either.
Fishes,
Ender
Ask (Score:3, Funny)
Reboot away (Score:3, Funny)
Whoops! (Score:2, Funny)
Identify the Beard (Score:5, Funny)
[ ] Unix
[ ] Mainframe
[ ] Windows
beard #2 [stallman.org]
[ ] Unix
[ ] Mainframe
[ ] Windows
beard #3 [cnet.com]
[ ] Unix
[ ] Mainframe
[ ] Windows
Re:a few observations (Score:3, Funny)
My first day as an operator, they had me printing on the old Xerox 9790. I was happily typing jobs into the queue via JES2 with $pprt2. The whole system froze about a 15 minutes in. Panic ensued, but nobody - especially me - knew what happened. They sent me to lunch while systems, the HSM guys and the operators tried to figure it out.
When I got back everything was fine and there was a big "$P" on my locker. I flubbed a key and typed in $P which is the command to halt JES2 (yes, systems should have disabled it from the print terminal). They were all very good humored about it and showed me how to IPL that Sunday where I got my chance to type it at the correct time.
Re:An idea... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:How did you get a mod of 5? (Score:1, Funny)
Er.. programs that run for more than 30 seconds without turning blue?
Not that blue isn't a perfectly good color...
no offense.
Fuckin A Right! (Score:4, Funny)
Corollary: End users (Score:5, Funny)
> Linux programmers don't know how to program with a GUI.
> Mainframe programmers wonder what a GUI is.
Corollary for end users - and yes, my Dad's first email message to me was indeed sent in all caps:
MAINFRAME USERS THINK THAT USING ALL CAPS WHEN SENDING MEMOS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL
Linux users think that using all caps in email is YELLING.
windows users dont no how 2 use nething but there im proggy
Re:a few observations (Score:3, Funny)
Eventually, he ran it again and was just about to run for the third time, when the elevator door opened and in rolled a trolley full of paper from the high speed printer in the basement...
Re:you don't even know what Unix is, shithead (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Biggest culteral difference (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ah. Ok, here are the differences. (Score:4, Funny)
Have they finished yet?
Re:Everything Old Is Old Again (Score:2, Funny)
Hey You got a problem with my PDP 11/24? Its got everything I need, PT readers, dual bootable 8.5 inch drives and a 3 mb HD
(scary things is I am serious)
Re:An idea... (Score:0, Funny)
All of the programming I do startes out in a graphic environment, whether that is Visual Studio, or Dreamweaver.
Dreamweaver is programming? hahahaha that's a good one.
Re:Ah. Ok, here are the differences. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Everything Old Is Old Again (Score:5, Funny)
Acronyms (Re:Everything Old Is Old Again) (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Everything Old Is Old Again (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Everything Old Is Old Again (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'm going to go with 'smell' (Score:5, Funny)
No, no... those are called "goatees".
A Windows admin, Unix admin and a Mainframe admin (Score:5, Funny)
The Windows admin washed his hands, then pulled out twelve paper towels and thoroughly dried both hands up to the wrists in two seconds flat.
The Unix admin took out one paper towel and very carefully, using every bit of dry towel, dried his hands perfectly in under one minute.
The Mainframe admin breezed through without stopping to wash his hands at all.
"Somewhere along the line" he said, "we learned not to piss on our fingers..."
Re:Ah. Ok, here are the differences. (Score:4, Funny)
About the 40MB thing, I was guessing about the size, that actually relates to a true story. Here's a real conversation I had with two mainframe guys in an organization I used to work at (context: there was a system which was half on the mainframe and half on microcomputer servers, which kept a parallel set of data on our users, and the two systems coordinated via file transfer).
MainFrame Guy 1: "So, pretty soon, we're going to have to clear out our records, we're going to save everything to cold."
MFG 2: "Yeah, so if we could coordinate your moving of your records to cold as well, that would be great."
(My project manager and I look at each other, baffled.)
Me: "Cold? What's cold? What's he talking about?"
MFG 1: "Storage. You know, external storage."
Me: "Oh, you mean tape (they nod). Why do you have to clear out your hard disk?"
MFG 2: "We have to move old records off to cold."
Me: "Why?"
(MFG 1 and 2 look at each other, baffled).
Me: "We're on Oracle, right? If you're using too much space, just add some more disk."
(MFG 1 and 2 look at each other, then me, then back at each other.)
Me: "Disk is cheap. Put some more in. We're not even using a fraction of what we've got right now, I'm sure it's no big deal."
MFG 1 (or 2?): "Uhm, yeah, that's not really an option."
(My project manager and I look at each other, then we get it. Thirty year old mainframe, big old disk drives like washing machines, LIMITED SPACE.)
Me: "Ahh... Uhm. Well, we can't clear out our database, but we'll limit what the users can access, that way they won't be able to submit anything to your system that'll gum up the works for you."
(LATER)
Me, to project manager: "HOLY SHIT, how old is their equipment???"
PM: (chuckling) "I have no idea, I'm guessing decades."
Me: "Man. It still works???"
Re:A Windows admin, Unix admin and a Mainframe adm (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I agree (Score:3, Funny)
A five year old AIWA with 30 Watt speakers. You're welcome to it if you can get past the German Sheepherd and survive having six .45's emptied into your chest from my revolver.
Re:Whoops! (Score:3, Funny)
I beg to differ
http://www.alioth.net/tmp/vaxen.html [alioth.net]
Englightening and very amusing story about the mainframe room and a VAX admin's experience of an IBM one.
More Mainframe Culture (Score:4, Funny)
Years ago, I worked with a grizzled old mainframe veteran. Let's call him Dan. Earlier in his career, Dan ran the datacenters at American Express and FedEx. Dan knew big iron.
One day, a few of us were ooh-ing and ahh-ing over the latest whiz-bang quad-Alpha box. Dan just laughed, shook his head, and said: