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Data Storage Media

Mysterious 20-Year-Old Analog Media? 95

Posted by Cliff from the can-you-identify-it dept.
discHead asks: "Presently I work for a transcription company. We received an interesting medium that we're having trouble identifying. It looks like a 3.5-inch floppy, but just the magnetic disc itself--no plastic shell, not even a metal hub in the center. It's punched with a small center hole and an additional wedge-shaped hole nearby (but in a different position and smaller than the rectangular hole in a standard floppy's metal hub). It's foil-stamped with a 3M logo and a serial number, but 3M referred us to Imation and Imation is stumped. Our only other clues: we're told it's an analog(!) audio recording and that it dates back to about 1985. Our Google research has yet to turn up anything. Anyone know what in tarnation this thing is and what we can do with it?"
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Mysterious 20-Year-Old Analog Media? More

Mysterious 20-Year-Old Analog Media?

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  • More Information (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zexarious ( 691024 ) <svarog@gmail.com> on Sunday August 07, 2005 @12:51PM (#13264310)
    Show pictures and serial number, or buy us a crystal ball
  • a link to a photograph would be handy.

  • No pic? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MJArrison ( 154721 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @12:58PM (#13264340) Homepage
    picture(1) == words x 1000;
    • Picture is an array? Then it should be "pictures".
    • picture(1) == words x 1000
      If a picture is worth 1024 words, then with four byte word size, a picture is worth 4K bytes. Somebody is using awfully small pictures.

  • You hold the key to unlocking mankind! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:04PM (#13264386)

    That disk is from the future! It holds the encoding of DNA from the human race 100,000 years in the future! They have cured all major disease and live in a utopic creative society! Do you realize what you have got?!?! You can be on the cover of Time Magazine!!!!

  • Olivetti models had such discs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by e**(i pi)-1 ( 462311 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:07PM (#13264402) Homepage Journal
    One of the first programmable computers, I had worked on was old Olivetti programmable computer similar to P6060 [old-computers.com], or P6040 [old-computers.com]. It had such discs. The machine looked like a typewriter, had no screen. The input could be read on a display with 2-3 input lines. It used a Basic type programming language.
    • Probably not, since a computers mostly use digital media. The only exception I know of were early home computers that basically read and wrote data as tones, so that ordinary audio cassette decks could be used to store data. These were very slow, and disappeared as soon a floppy drives got reasonably cheap.

      The Olivetti came out in 1977. That makes it a little late to be "first". Depending on your definition of "programmable computer", they'd been around somewhere between 30 and 100 years before that. The

  • Analog? (Score:4, Informative)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:15PM (#13264439) Homepage Journal
    Why is Imation so sure it's an analog disk? I've never heard of disks being used for magnetic analog recording. (There's vinyl disks, of course, but they're mechnical recordings.) And why would anybody create one? Once you go to all the trouble of creating the hardware to access the tracks, you're pretty much in the digital world anyway, and might as well go all the way.

    • Re:Analog? (Score:4, Informative)

      by SA Stevens ( 862201 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:46PM (#13264598)
      Analog disks have been used for magnetic audio recording in the past. They were used for voice dictation. I have owned such a machine in the past.

      'Hardware to access the tracks' is a worm gear. There's only ONE track, you see.

      • OK, I stand corrected. It would aid the current discussion if you gave us the maker of that machine you owned. Lanier?

      • Huzzah! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by discHead ( 3226 )
        You have come closer than anyone (on or off Slashdot) to hitting the nail on the head. Indeed this is voice dictation we're looking at. But not even the people who sent us the disc know anything about this medium or how to play it; I guess it came from pretty deep in their archives. Can you remember anything else about the machine you had? (brand, model, etc.?)

        • Re:Huzzah! (Score:2, Interesting)

          by SA Stevens ( 862201 )
          Unfortunately, I was responding to the 'general idea' of recording analog to a magnetic disk, not this specific media. The equipment I refer to used flexible disks outside a sleeve, similar to a floppy diskette. I can't remember the brand for certain, since this was 20+ years ago, but I think it was Dictaphone gear.

          • Re:Huzzah! (Score:3, Informative)

            by mikiN ( 75494 )
            I have used such a device in the past. The media were disks with a spiral groove on one side. The groove was used to steer a magnetic recording/playback head. The device had a slider on the front to place the head anywhere on the disk.
            I used the device for voice recording and for primitive analog sampling.

    • Re:Analog? (Score:3, Informative)

      by TeknoHog ( 164938 )
      There have been still video cameras [digicamhistory.com] that used analog signals recorded on magnetic discs. I've never seen these in real life, so I'm not sure if the disc is the one we're looking for.
      • There have been still video cameras that used analog signals recorded on magnetic discs. I've never seen these in real life, so I'm not sure if the disc is the one we're looking for.

        I've used one such camera in real life, and the discs it recorder on were 2.5" floppies, almost identical in configuration to 3.5" floppies, only smaller.
        • Those cameras were XapShot (http://www.sonicvideo.com/stillvideo/xap.html [sonicvideo.com]) cameras, made by Canon. They stored video as a single NTSC field. Only way to display them was through a TV either via the camera itself or a special disc reader. Supposedly there was also an interface card for direct capture to a computer, however it was twice as much as the camera itself.

          We had quite a few of these where I went to High School. Back in the early 90's, these were much less expensive to use for photography students th
          • That's the one. My experience with it was also in high school.

            What we also had, however, was a video image capture card in a 486. We could digitize the pictures from the camera with it. Keep in mind that this capture card was not a "frame grabber"... the video had to be steady. So the display from the camera worked, as well as a VCR with good pause tracking, or a video camera looking at static scenery.

          • I was fortunate (?!?) enough to have dealt with the custom framebuffer card for the XapShot. Back in the day, I was working for a photographic lab (what's that?) that had a Canon CLC (later renamed the CLC-1) and a Canon CLC-500. We had the Canon IPU (connected to the CLC-500) which was capable of video capture.

            A little local company (GE) used these cameras to capture jet engine defects. They would bring in the camera, we would hook it up to the IPU and print color copies. Quite a pain as there wasn'

    • I got a now what would be deemed ancient digital-sort-of a camera.

      why digital sort of? because it recorded single analog video frames on the funky floppy discs it used for storageda.

      analog was cheaper once you know - that's why someone would have used it, you wouldn't need as high quality on the medium either.

      however, if the guy doesn't know wtf is on those discs it's highly unlikely that he needs the data from those discs.
      • You're right, I was wrong, there is such a thing as analog mag discs.

        But you should still read TFA before expressing an opinion about it. The dude works for a transcription service. He doesn't know what's on the disk because it's not his disc. Presumably it's important to whoever hired the company to transcribe it.

  • a game (Score:3, Funny)

    by MarkRose ( 820682 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:15PM (#13264441) Homepage

    Anyone know what in tarnation this thing is and what we can do with it?

    Play Frizbee?

  • Another mysterious media (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sandmann ( 182819 ) <sandmann@daimi.au.dk> on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:18PM (#13264453)
    I am in possession of another mysterious media, said to be more than twenty years old. It is a black disk, perhaps 50cm diameter, made of a mysterious material that I have not been able to identify. The disk is light and has a small (~5 mm) hole in the middle. It has a spiral shaped groove covering the entire disk with and what looks like 'bands" where the spiral groove is cut deeper. In the outermost and the innermost bands it looks like there is longer between the windings.

    Any idea what this could be? Could it be a media left behind by aliens trying to communicate with us?

  • Shot in the dark, courtesy of google groups (Score:5, Interesting)

    by moreati ( 119629 ) <alex@moreati.org.uk> on Sunday August 07, 2005 @01:31PM (#13264528) Homepage
    Starting with this search: audio diskette, 1981-1988 [google.co.uk]

    Lead me to posts regarding compusonics [google.co.uk] who patented and marketted such a technology. Although whether it was analouge is questionable.

    Regards, and I'd please let us know any outcome.

    Alex
    • Regards, and I'd please let us know any outcome.


      I think I have a shirt that says that. Or was it "All your media unknown analog are belong to us."?
    • holy crap! i gotta get one of these hot new things [google.co.uk]! it will be a revolution in data storage!

      • Re:Shot in the dark, courtesy of google groups (Score:4, Funny)

        by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @03:01PM (#13264894)
        I know this is way offtopic, but I just love this post from that thread:

        Sorry, not to harp, but...a Laserdisk as to a CD disk as a Space Shuttle at launch is to OS-360. Both are big, and impressive--each in its way--but one is, if not the pinnacle of cahievement in its field, a milestone on the way; while the other is just a big, ugly abortion. I submit that CD is the latter. The head on a CD disk does make contact with the recording surface, unlike the Laserdisk. Both the media and the read head suffer from this. I've heard a rumor that the CD is to soon be no more, while the future of the Laserdisk seems assured, so let's not mix the two, eh?

        In a nitpicking mood,
        Dave Ihnat
        ihuxx!ignatz

        I, for one, welcome our future-assured Laserdisk overlords!

        • It would have been funny, if it wasn't just some mistake:

          Ok, folks enough! There've been a number of publications that have abbreviated the abbreviation, and referred to the CED disk
          as a CD--and I was thinking that way when I posted, ok? Sorry, and it's a non-issue, since it's the CED that's defunct.

          *Give 'em a match, and they'll burn Chicago to the ground...*
          -Mrs. Murphy

          Dave Ihnat
          ihuxx!ignatz
    • Moreati, it appears that you have found it! The CompuSonics product was indeed a technology for using 5.25 magnetic disk media to store compressed audio recordings.

      The patent [uspto.gov] refers to the media in question.

      In the preferred embodiment of this invention the storage medium is a 5.25" magnetic disk commonly in use for digital magnetic storage and retrieval. These disks have a storage capacity of about 1 megabyte (1 million bytes or 8 million bits) and are anticipated to reach 10 megabytes in the near futur

  • It's not a Vinyl disk.
    It's a disk of plastic with metallic particles.
    It's probably useless as the readers are probably all gone.
    It'd make a good frisbee...
    Who's up for a game of ultimate?
  • Play 20Q [20q.net]!

    1. It is classified as Other.
    2. Is it usually colorful? No.
    Does it break if dropped? Unknown.
    Does it come in a box? Unknown.
    3. Do you hold it when you use it? No.
    4. Is it manufactured? Yes.
    Is it an electro-mechanical device? Unknown.
    5. Is it found on a desk? Rarely.
    6. Is it smaller than a loaf of bread? Yes.
    7. Would you find it in an office? Doubtful.
    8. Is it round? Yes.
    9. Is it black? Yes.
    10. Does it come in many varieties? No.
    11. Does it roll? No.
    12. Is it a tool? No.
    13. Doe
  • It might be a one of these?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexi_disc [wikipedia.org]

    In which case, it would play on a standard turntable. (though, of course, you'll want to be sure of that first -- if it isn't one, playing it on a turntable will probably wreck it, whatever it is....)
  • may help

  • Dictaphone machine (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TFGeditor ( 737839 ) on Sunday August 07, 2005 @02:41PM (#13264812) Homepage
    I think what you have might be a disk from a Dictaphone or other dictation/transcriber machine.

    I'd start by contacting Dictaphone http://www.dictaphone.com/ [dictaphone.com] , then maybe Google for other Dictaphone contacts, perhaps a museum or broker of "antique" electronic gear.

    • Yes. Indeed it is dictation of some kind. I think we've already consulted Dictaphone to no avail (but I will have to double-check that). You also suggest "a museum or broker of 'antique' electronic gear", and I can think of a local electronics recycler who might fit the bill. Thanks for your suggestions.
      • Tongue-tied guy calls the operator to place a call for him (this was back in the olden days).

        "Opewater, please give me Susquehanna twee-twee-twee-twee."

        The operator was amused by this, and asked the man to repeat the number several times as she called coworkers over to hear the guy say "twee-twee-twee-twee." The guy caught on, and said to the operator:

        "Opewater, do you know Dictaphone?"

        Operator says, "Why, yes, I am quite familiar with it."

        TT Guy says, "Good. Then dictaphone up your ass and connect me to Su
  • I just wish I could figure out where four panels of core memory that I came across are from. I *think* they are out of an old IBM (the envelope they were in had IBM return address info), but when I contacted IBM they wanted serials, which aren't found anywhere on the frame. They'd clearly been cut out from a larger assembly, with some of the points desoldered. (Photo [nuxx.net])

    For now I've just got them framed [nuxx.net] and hanging on the wall of my living room.

  • rec.audio.pro (Score:2, Informative)

    by poopdeville ( 841677 )
    If you have access to usenet, ask in rec.audo.pro. A dollar says Scott Dorsey knows the answer.
    • " If you have access to usenet, ask in rec.audo.pro. A dollar says Scott Dorsey knows the answer."

      You can also access rec.audio.pro with Google Groups.

      Anyone know a newsreader client that works and looks like Google Groups did back in 2003?

  • http://www.cuttingarchives.com/ [cuttingarchives.com]

    They seem to have lots of information on obsolete audio formats.
    • Excellent suggestion. I found their informational charts, but alas, this disc is not described in there. But I'll try to get in touch with them anyway.

      I like this: "If we don't have the equipment necessary we will either obtain it or our trained engineers will construct a machine that will be able to do the job." Dang, think that'll bump up the cost a bit? ;-)
  • Last week I was remembering watching an episode of the now defunct BBC TV Programme called Tomorrow's World from the 80s in which they showed a 3.5" floppy being used to store music.

    I was only about 10-12 years old at the time, but the gist of it was, they were "processing the audio signal using a computer to remove the unimportant information and store only the important information on the disk."

    I seem to remember they had a man playing the trumpet in the studio and they recorded him playing. On the comp

  • Dead Media Project anyone? hello? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RomulusNR ( 29439 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @05:14PM (#13273461) Homepage
    You guys all suck. First place anyone should have looked was The Dead Media Project [deadmedia.org]. A search on dictation turned up this possiblity:

    The Recordon [hetnet.nl], aka the Mail-A-Voice [audiotools.com], was a magnetic disc-based dicatation device made in the 50s. It used a paper-based disc (originally; later it used plastic discs) which in theory could be folded, mailed in an envelope, and played back. The media was sold by 3M but not made by them.

    A search on DeadMedia for "magnetic disk" also turns up the Timex Magnetic Recorder [deadmedia.org], though it's believed this was never actually sold.

  • Dead Media List? (Score:3, Informative)

    by wizzy403 ( 303479 ) * on Monday August 08, 2005 @05:57PM (#13273867)
    Have you checked with the folks on the Dead Media List started by Bruce Sterling some years back? http://www.deadmedia.org/ [deadmedia.org]

  • A photo for those who doubted its existence (Score:4, Informative)

    by discHead ( 3226 ) <3zcxrr602@sneakemail.com> on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @12:50PM (#13279745) Homepage
    Long overdue, I know: a photo of the mystery disc [flickr.com]. As I said, it looks very much like the inner portion of an ordinary floppy disk. But we're told it's about 20 years old.
  • An e-mail tip led me to a Web page that identifies the mystery recording device as an IBM 6:5 dictation machine [thepcmuseum.com]. According to an anecdote on this page [cmdmicro.ca], they have probably been around as early as 1974 (maybe earlier?).

    Thanks to all who provided input.

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