What is the Current Status of WiMAX?

PalletBoy asks: "I live in BFE (read 'remote') Pennsylvania where BroadBand is not available in any form save satellite, which is no good for price and latency reasons (curse my MMO addiction!). My big question is: what is the -actual- current status of WiMAX technology? Different sites have me believing different things and I can't find an exact answer to the question 'When will I be able to buy a WiMAX router and cards so I can remotely receive broadband?' When will WiMAX (802.16) be solidly standardized, out, and affordable? Or is it already there?"

I Was In Your Shoes

[geomon]

Until two regional companies started offering radio-link internet. I get 256Kb/sec up/down and am eyeballing another provider who will offer better transfer rates for the same price. The only problem is the price. Both ISPs charge $60/month. I am able to justify the price because I can telecommute a few days a month and save gas in my car. My dial-up was $15/month with a $17/month second telephone line. I looked into Hughes' and Echostar's systems, but their Fair Access Policies looked like bandwidth restrictions on what you were already paying for. I was going to stay with dial-up until radio-links came along.

Right Now!

[USSJoin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiMax [wikipedia.org] Seems to think that it's already out... http://www.towerstream.com/ [towerstream.com] should already be serving it.

Wi-Max

[matth]

The ISP I work for which is in Williamsport will be deploying Wi-Max Alvarion gear shortly. However, I don't know that that's really going to help you in remote PA. The problem being remote is even Wi-Max probably will not hit you here in the hilly areas. We use some 900mhz stuff and it works well through trees... but hit a mountain and you don't have a chance. Plus in most areas like that it just isn't cost effective to build out to hit 1 or 4 people.

BFE MI

[mrycar]

I live in BFE Michigan. I have the same problem, but luckily live near a major interstate highway (I69). WIMAX is being considered along the entire stretch and is seen as one of the few hopes to get reasonable rate broadband access by the communities around me.

Even so, the earliest estimate for me is around 2 years until it is ready. Until then, it looks like Cingular will have its edge network in place, and it will be a likely alternative. Although it looks like it will be 8 months until the EDGe network is in place here.

It is solidly standardized in fixed mode

[TechyImmigrant]

It is solidly standardized in fixed mode in IEEE 802.16-2004. Products are in the pipeline from a number of manufacturers.

What is at issue is whether service providers will set up in your area. This is a very complex issue where spectrum policy and licensing collide with equipment availability, local permits (for towers etc), the cost of the technology and competition from DSL and cable. I don't pretend to know how it will pan out, but 2006 will be the year that the market gets effectively tested.

The current work is around mobility which relates more to handsets and laptops. This not only in the unfinished 802.16e spec, but in Wimax and the IETF, since for mobility, the backhaul networks need to be standardized and this is outside the realm of the 802.16 working group. Mobility will take some time.

Re:Verizon commercials

[Anonymous Coward]

It's 1xRTT and EV-DO, not WiMax.

BFE fo' life

[brandor]

Our small town has been a testbed for WiMax for the past year or so. So far everything seems to be working well and the price hasn't been bad either. 29.99 for standard bandwidth. So far the only limitation I've seen is ling of sight. But, that should be remedied soon, as the operator is moving his towers to the mountain tops. (Why they didn't do this to begin with, I'll never know.) Verizon is the one providing the testing and everything. www.verizonavenue.com is the webpage (I *think*)

MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL! (Plus link)

[Spy der Mann]

Here's a link I found on google, entitled "WiMAX News, Events and Training"

http://www.intel.com/netcomms/events/wimax.htm [intel.com]

Verizon Covers Almost All of PA

[Doug Dante]

Look at the nationwide map. It looks like most, if not all, of PA is covered with Verizon wireless high speed intnernet ($59/month+regular cell - unlimited - 400Kbps-800Kbps with 2Mbps bursting).

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/mobileoptions/b roadband/mappage.jsp?city=Pittsburgh&state=PA&i_na me=pa_pitts [verizonwireless.com]

It may not be WiMax, but it gets the job done.

Also, if you can find someone within line of sight who has DSL or Cable modem, you can roll your own point to point wireless network pretty easilly, even with plain old 802.11a/b/g.

BFE, MS

[Ridge]

I live in BFE, MS and like the poster have no choice for broadband. Today, I had a couple guys come out and install a WildBlue satellite, they just finished about a half hour ago. It seems pretty nice, I get about 1.5Mbps downstream and 256Kbps upstream says some random bandwidth tester. The latency is pretty painful, I got ~650ms pinging google. The 'Pro' version of this provider is 1.5Mbps/256Kbps for $79 a month, 22GB/6GB fair access policy. My initial opinion is that it rocks when your only choice is nothing or dialup, *if* you can live with the latency. I went a month or two without a connection after moving from Memphis with a cable connection, it's kind of tough. So this is a pretty sizable improvement over nothing. I hope by this time next year to start seeing some WiMax deployments, but I don't expect to see any before then. :(

Re:It's coming, Just a little bit longer (months)

[the_maddman]

Except ClearWire for all the money they got to promote WiMax, is CMDA2000. If you read their stuff, they are using "WiMax like" technology.

I haven't seen anything WiMax that's real. It's a marketing thing that's gotten out of hand.

On the other hand, I did get to play with Clearwire's gear, and it does actually work pretty well. Their TOS is evil though, read it carefully.

Re:Right Now!

[Nos.]

There is no equipment *today* that is certified to be WiMax. Everything we're seeing right now is "Pre-WiMax". This is equipment that will probably pass certification, but hasn't yet. The certification lab just started accepting equipment for test a couple months back. The belief is that by the end of the year we'll see some actual certified hardware available. See wimaxforum.org [wimaxforum.org] - the official wimax site.

Fixed vs. Mobile performance

[RradRegor]

One thing to keep in mind when considering this is the huge difference between a fixed high-gain antenna and a mobile device. I did some work for a company that deployed MANs via 30Ghz point-to-multipoint systems using a proprietary QPSK physical layer. It had very similar performance to what WiMax seems to be talking about, but when you think wireless these days, you think of toting your laptop around anywhere and getting connected. Although our system was a very different protocol and modulation method, the laws of physics dictate that your reliable speed is going to depend on the energy per bit transmitted and the combined gain of the two antenna systems. In other words, a mobile device isn't going to have the kind of range and speed people are hearing about WRT WiMax.

Re:butt fuck egypt?

[winkydink]

Going back to my military days in the late 70's, it was BumFvck, Egypt. I never heard anybody say Beyond Egypt.

There is Hope... BPL

[mitchdbx]

The FCC recently approved the use of BPL, Broadband over Power Line.... This will allow the most remote users to get High Speed internet! There are a few kinks to work out still, but the technology is there, and ready to roll. We have to make the HAM ops happy first ;) Check it out here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_over_power_ line [wikipedia.org]

State of the WiMax

[Erich]

I think you'll start to see slow adoption Real Soon Now (next few years). However, there's a big question about spectrum. WiMax vendor folks can buy up spectrum like wireless carriers, but that is expensive. They can use bands that don't require licensing (like your 802.11 devices), but (potentially) you'll get lots of interference.

Also, there is really no unity on spectrum for WiMax stuff yet. For 802.11b, for instance, most devices today work in that 2.4Ghz band, so devices are all compatible. Not so much for 802.16, last I saw there were lots of frequencies that could be used, in both licensed and unlicensed spectrum spaces. And it's unlikely that a device you'll get will have antenna systems designed for every possible allowed 802.16 frequency... which I'd wager means that you will likely need to buy hardware that matches your vendor.

I think for the near term, you should see if you have either WCDMA or CDMA 1xEV-DO rev A data coverage in your area. EV-DO has decent bandwith, and DO rev A really reduces latency and increases reverse link bandwith. As a bonus, you should be able to use the service in most major populated areas... You might have to shell out bucks though. For DO rev A, Sprint and Verizon already own the spectrum, and are starting to roll out these services. The GSM folks are switching to WCDMA, but I don't know the state of their data services. My experience is that GPRS/EDGE doesn't have very good data rates in real life... youll want to stick with the 3G data standards.

Or, if you are lucky, you might find a smaller service provider that uses directional 802.11 in your area.. that might work reasonably well.

3 perspectives: Provider, User, Observer

[lpoulsen]

WiMax is pretty well standardized from the perspective of protocols and modulations, but unlike WiFi which is developed for use in unlicensed bands, WiMax is primarily intended for use by network operators who will have licensed bands. (There will be some gear available for use in the 5.8GHz unlicensed band, but that is a small fraction of the market.

In North America, the main deployments are expected to be in the 2.5GHz "wireless cable" bands, which are mostly licensed to Sprint, the IFTS (educational TV bands) mostly licensed to Catholic Archdioceses but now authorized for subleasing) and a band around 3.5GHz. Various bands around 3.2, 3.5 and 3.6GHz is also where other parts of the world are expected to deploy these services.

If you are a large provider, like Sprint, you had better get field trials underway by now, or your licenses may be in danger of expiring. And you will be negotiating with a handful of equipment manufacturers for a wholesale deal on equipment working on your licensed frequencies.

If you are a small ISP, you will probably have to look to the unlicensed 5.8GHz, and talk to Alvarion. I have not looked much at who else has equipment for that band. Be aware that the higher frequencies do not travel as far as 2.4GHz, so you may in fact be better off with high-end WiFi kit built from the ground up for outdoor use.

If you are a user, you need to shop around for a service provider, and let them worry about the right equipment.

(I work for a small wireless equipment house that makes low-bandwidth wireless systems for very long range, especially targeted to underdeveloped areas of the world. http://www.afar.net/ [afar.net])

Re:It's not just a matter of cards...

[Wesley Felter]

WiMax can provide high speed (50Mbps+) over long distances (tested at over 60 miles).

No, it can provide high speed or long distance, but not both at the same time. For really large sectors that will be used in rural areas, expect 10Mbps or less total throughput.

Re:I Was In Your Shoes

[seanmeister]

I use a radio-based ISP in southern NM, and it's great. It's advertised as 256kbps, but in practice I get closer to 400kbps, and it's only $50/month.

My only complaints have been the price of the hardware (Alvarion BreezeAccess II - $1200 from the ISP, or closer to $400 on eBay), and the fact that they tend to go down whenever lighting clobbers the mountain where their antenna is.

Catch 22

[HomerJayS]

Don't hold your breath for WiMax or broadband over powerline coming to a BFE near you.

Deploying a broadband infrastructure takes lots of $$$. And where are the best places to recover your capitol expenses? The high population density areas (which by the way already have other forms of broadband already available (cable, DSL)).

The bottom line is that you have to already have access to broadband in order to get other forms of broadband.

I live in BFE Ohio and am resigned to the fact that I will need to wait for suburban sprawl to engulf my area before I'll have any hope of broadband.

In Greenville SC ...

[adzoox]

We have a startup called Main Street Wimax ...

They have the wireless service spread over a 10 mile radius at $26.95 a month for 4Mb service.

They have this same service "morphed" into a free downtown Wifi network. (Basically taking the wimax modem and running it into a wireless router then installing repeaters every 300 ft downtown.)

It's building slowly but surely - it's not going to be for big cities - it will be rural broadband.

Re:AUA

[WhyCantIBeYou]

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Main Entry: acronym
Pronunciation: 'a-kr&-"nim
Function: noun
Etymology: acr- + -onym
: a word (as NATO, radar, or snafu) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters : INITIALISM (the emphasis is mine)

Wireless ISP locater

[dme2k]

A wireless ISP locater as well as other good broadband wireless info is available at http://bbwexchange.com/ [bbwexchange.com]. I was amazed at how many wireless ISPs are in operation in rural areas already. (most are line-of-sight point-to-point wireless)

Either Bum Fuck Egypt or Butt Fuck Egypt.

[Secrity]

In the past 30 or so years, many of them in the US military, I have frequently heard the terms "Bum Fuck Egypt" or "Butt Fuck Egypt" (abbreviated as "BFE") used to indicate a remote location. I have also (very seldom) heard the term "Beyond Fucking Egypt" (also abbreviated as "BFE") used to indicate a long distance .

RFD stands for "Rural Free Delivery", which I believe was replaced by the term "Rural Route".

BUFF as a name for a B52 means "Big Ugly Fat Fucker".

Re:Nagging question about bandwidth

[nicke999]

Dataspeed relates to bandwidth by Shannon's theorem which states that the maximum capacity (C) that can ever be sent over a digital channel is set by: C = bandwidth * log2(1+S/N), where S/N is the signal to noise ratio. That is, double the bandwidth, double the maximum theoretical speed. So, to steal an example from Wikipedia: if the signal to noise ratio is 20 dB and we have 500 Mhz of bandwidth we can transmit at 3 Gbit/s (theoretically at least).

Also important to understand is that the lower the transmitting frequency, the further the signal will go (given the same transmitter strength). Going from 1 Ghz to 500 Mhz and you double the transmission range without increasing the transmitter strength.

To make this equation even more difficult, the lower the transmitting frequency, the higher noise level. So in conclusion this means that more bandwidth gives us higher transmission speeds and higher frequnecy gets more expensive since we need more transmitting towers but has low noise levels and therefore acheives higher speeds.

Hope this explains things!

Pre-Standard and Need Local ISP

[billstewart]

The standards for fixed service are pretty much baked, but there are still compatibility concerns, and not everybody's really running compatible standards-based equipment yet. There's also lots of hype about the various roaming-type WiMax services, but don't hold your breath for another year or two on that stuff.

Also, of course, you still need to have an ISP within earshot who's running the stuff. Some ISPs are planning to do licensed spectrum only, and some are planning to do unlicensed, and of course the distance they get depends a lot on geography, and BFE PA is pretty hilly; your luck getting service may depend on whether there's a good mountain-top you can see that some ISP can also see.

Re:Right Now!

[bani]

wimaxforum is hilarious. out of the 100's of parties registered as a "wimax forum member", only 4 or 5 are even working on actual product.

what is funny is that the wimax forum was predicting shipping products in _2004_. then they bumped it up to 2005. it's now the latter part of 2005 and they still haven't even finished testing. every wimax vendor I have talked to says 1H 2006, some are even saying 2H 2006.

as for deploying this stuff yourself right now -- forget it. you need an FCC license to do so. maybe in a year or two they will have stuff which operates in unlicensed bands, but right now and the immediate future -- no.

all current testing is taking place outside north america in asia and other countries where licensing is lax or nonexistent.

Re:Right Now!

[scbysnx]

testing starts in october and we will see the first certified wi-max equipment in 06

NAT is beautiful solution to address space &

[woodsrunner]

Security is just a side benefit to the solution requested. The user asked for a way to split up an adress in order to avoid paying $60 per computer at his site. I figure they hadn't heard of NAT so I gave him my $0.02.

NAT alone does improve security. It is far better than a direct connection. NAT alone will stop a lot of port scan worms and door knob testers(the bulk of the crud that attacks simple users like myself). It's like having a cheap U-Lock on your bike, sure you can pick it with a BIC, but most people don't know that and it keeps mooks from riding off on it. THis is why most broadband routers & modems these days have NAT, it's a good first step.

Double NAT, however, is a different story. Double NAT is more difficult to breach. I am not going to say it is foolproof but it takes some serious effort to get across and for the networks that I have set up with this solution the end users have seen a dramatic drop in successful attacks. The only thing that I have seen succeed are trojans.

Still, if you want to be secure, I did suggested http://www.ipcop.org/ [ipcop.org], a linux distro that uses ipchains/tables and is a fairly sophisticated firewall and I have found to be a reliable and cost effective alternative to PIX or Checkpoint. Sites I have installed this solution in conjunction with good AV have had no breaches and they still run 98.

Security is not just one thing. Like the bike example above, security is many things: not just locking the front wheel, but locking the frame and both wheels; locking it in a well lit and visible place; bringing it indoors when possible... security is a matter of practicing many layers of secure procedures across the board -- it's using a secure OS, strong passwords, using virus/spyware protection, using firewalls, intrusion detection, logging, etc.

For the average enduser, most of this doesn't make any sense and you can't expect them to get it right even some of the time. But you put an unpatched Win98 box behind double NAT, even single NAT, and you will see a dramatic reduction in exploitation.

That qualifies as an improvement in security.

Re:I Was In Your Shoes

[Anonymous Coward]

Err...I think he means 256kbps. (Kilobits)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:I AM in your shoes...

[netruner]

I second that. I live in rural Jefferson County, Missouri and I have a wireless service that works, well, most of the time, kinda. I have been keeping statistics on them for about 2 years now (100 pings on the tower at 4 hour intervals, output piped to text files) and I'm starting to spot trends of when the service dropps off. Initially, I thought it was that in the summer, the leaves were on the trees and they were blocking my signal (I'm about .25 miles from the tower with trees in the way), but I'm starting to think that there is more of a weather component to it (air viscocity, heat on the antenna and boards). I noticed that about 1-2 days after it rains, the connection gets better while the longer we go without rain and the hotter it gets, the worse the connection gets.

Does anyone know of a tool that can be acquired relatively cheaply that can be used to find sources of interference in the 2.4GHz range? Also, is there any type of toy that uses 2.4GHz that one could reasonably expect to work over that distance that I could use to check for blockage?

Got WaveTop? :)

[Halvy]

I think you have many options while waiting for the fat cats to get to you.

- *IF* your satellite companys has the feature, use only their downlink-- but uplink with a land phone (little to no latency).

- Get a T1.. there not as expensive as the past and I believe the phone company will put them anywhere there are paved roads.

- You probably have enough pots wiring to have at least 4 phone lines at once. Find out if any isp in the area (or any with reasonable 800's which are not in the area) handle: 'Load Balancing', which is a feature that combines your several regular phone lines into one, which can be as fast or faster than isdn.

- There are probably alot of other people frustrated 'out there' as well. Get together with them and start your own little wireless isp..maybe even charge new people a few bux.

- And last but not least, should you get realllly desperate (or board).. Remember this? :) http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=58 383 [prnewswire.co.uk]