An IT Infrastructure for Automotive Manufacturing?

papa248 asks: "I have moved into a Launch Project Manager position within my company. The business is with automotive component manufacturing in a Just-In-Time scale, located in the heart of the Motor City. My job will be to facilitate the setup of IT systems in a new assembly plant. This would be office systems, customer broadcast (parts are sequenced so they arrive at the OEM to match a particular vehicle's VIN), shop floor systems for robotic control, PLCs for error-proofing, lot traceability, the whole nine yards. The company (large, Fortune 500) has some very specific specifications for office systems (HP hardware, Windows, Office, etc) but leaves lots of opportunity for the actual production systems. I've been burned in the past because my predecessors have used 'turnkey' solutions from some lesser known, local vendors that write such custom, specific code on ridiculous, non standard PCs and hardware. I'm in a jam right now, because I've got tons of NT4 systems with a semi-custom OS and VB 6 code on it that are literally falling apart. What are your suggestions for setting up manufacturing control systems that leave the flexibility to be upgradeable and redesignable without being locked in to one particular vendor or solution?"

Consider

[Jorkapp]

Consider using a cross-platform language like Java. For upgrade-ability, you should write the applications/platforms as modularly as possible. Write once, run everywhere does have its merits.

Re:Consider

[GigsVT]

Java is no more cross platform than any interpreted language (PHP/Perl/Python come to mind).

And if you get into a tight spot performance wise (you probably won't), many of those languages have accelerators for CPU heavy stuff.

Then you won't be locked into a one-vendor solution like you would be with Java. Yes, I'm aware of gcj stuff, but that's not a serious option right now.

Re:Consider

[Usquebaugh]

It depends but there is such thing as bit compatability. The old p-system had it as does the samlltalk squeak. Some Lisp variants and I think Ruby.

But for the original poster java would be an okish choice, yes it's a crappy langugage but it's a common crappy language.

Get PI

[Anonymous Coward]

From OSI Software [osisoft.com].

Re:Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Post should be modded up, not down. Obviously this company is doomed if they are relying on some 22-year old flunky who soliciting the opinons of his freshmen cash register jock know-it-all internet pals who inhabit this site. You can see it now: "Hey boss, FrodoLives85 says Linux is the obvious choice for all manufacturing plants. I'm downloading Ubentoo right now!"

Think it out

[jamey.v]

I have spent the last 5 years of my life doing the same thing. My plant finally finished upgrading our entire proprietary system to a new, custom designed data tracking and control system. There are a few things to keep in mind...

• PLC's are notorius for having poorly written ethernet communications code. They can really screw up your network. We keep them on separate VLANs.
• Make sure your control software can talk to everything you need on the plant floor.
• OPC [opcfoundation.org] compliance can help, but it can be buggy. Make sure you test all components thouroughly.
• We had many custom VB6/VB5 programs running on NT. For those that could not be updated easily, or we did not have source code for, or were too expensive to upgrade, we moved them to VMWare ESX Server [vmware.com] with the P2V assistant [vmware.com]. It was a lifesaver.
• We use GEFanuc's product iFix [gefanuc.com] for our HMI. There are many other similar products out there from many different vendors. Most of them have very restrictive and expensive licensing. iFix fit us the best at the time.
• We moved all of the old junk desktop/tower server machines to proper rack mount servers and virtual machines.
• Develop a good relationship with a good automation integrator. They can help you more than you think.

If you want specifics, feel free to email me.

One word: LabVIEW.

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

Make sure your control software can talk to everything you need on the plant floor.

Check out LabVIEW 8.0, just released three days ago [ni.com].

Re:One word: LabVIEW.

[the eric conspiracy]

Cough Cough. LabView is great for instrumentation in a test lab, but on a factory floor it can kill someone.

Expound.

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

LabView is great for instrumentation in a test lab, but on a factory floor it can kill someone.

Okay, serious question [or questions]:

1) Could you give an example of how LabVIEW can kill someone?

2) Could you give an example of another programming language, with equal or greater third-party support [especially third-party HARDWARE support] that is less likely to kill someone [than is LabVIEW]?

Again, not a troll - I'm seriously curious as to what you might have to say.

Not just one, talk to several

[hackwrench]

That being said, I found it strange that it didn't occur to my classmates to call Cisco for product advice on a network design project when the class was for CCNA, but then I passed the cert test on the first try. I understand I was the only one of that class to do it in one try, though I may simply have been the first to pass it.

Call your local Rockwell dealer

[DorianGre]

Seriously, real time control systems on PLC's are going to be over your head. This part is not an IT solution, but an engineering solution. Call your local Rockwell dealer, and get an automation consultant in.

Re:Call your local Rockwell dealer

[topham]

I would like to second this.

PLCs are often used with machinery that can kill workers if it malfunctions.

While the submitter has every right to want the systems to be 'standard' PCs, The controller cards for talking to the PLCs are probably the only unique thing in the box. The controllers are expensive for a reason.

Call your local Rockwell dealer-Levelling off.

[Anonymous Coward]

"While the submitter has every right to want the systems to be 'standard' PCs, The controller cards for talking to the PLCs are probably the only unique thing in the box. The controllers are expensive for a reason."

That depends. Most of the "it can kill" level stuff happens at the PLC, which is mounted either near the controlled equipment, or centralized in the equipment room. The higher level stuff the majority of the time is for monitoring.* And that's were the standard PC's come in.

*When it came to progr

Re:Call your local Rockwell dealer-Levelling off.

[duffbeer703]

Wherever the "it can kill people" stuff resides, the asshat who submitted this Ask Slashdot should be as far away from this as possible. Morons like this are what give IT such a bad rap.

Re:Call your local Rockwell dealer

[Modeftron]

I disagree, the code that covers the "kill workers" protection usually resides in the controllers logic, the poster isn't suggesting (at least that's the way I read it) changing the machine logic but making changes to the human-machine interface or adding an OPC server to gather SCADA information. The controllers are expensive because the OEM's are gluttonous bastards most PLCs or PACs are run by very simple hardware for instance correct me if I'm wrong but the GE Fanuc 90-70 series plc only has two cpu's a

Why ask SlashDot?

[Grab]

What do you hope to get from here? There are three possible outcomes:-

1) You take advice from /. and someone asks where you got your info. You get canned, demoted or otherwise removed from the project when you tell them.

2) You take advice from /. and no-one asks where you got your info. Project fails. Someone asks where you got your info. You get canned or demoted when you tell them.

3) You take advice from /. and no-one asks where you got your info. Project succeeds. You get credit. This is the best outcome, but let's face it, it's incredibly unlikely since you don't have the technical know-how to make it work.

More realistically, this is *exactly* what consultants are for. If you specify at the start that flexibility to be upgraded and non-vendor-specific are key requirements, then you'll get advice based on that specification. And a consultant doesn't have to do the work - outsourcing is not compulsory. If you think you can do the work once you've been pointed in the right direction (or hire a team who can do the work), then all you need the consultant for is to provide advice on which systems and architectures to choose.

Grab.

Hope your managers and coworkers don't read slash

[gorim]

Because face it, you used more than enough big buzz words and even some actual details to pinpoint who you work for, to anyone in the same company.

In this Ask Slashdot posting, you made many mistakes:

1. You bloated your post with managerial and marketing buzzspeak. I had a damned annoying time wading through it.

2. You identified your lack of pre-existing knowledge to anyone who works with you, as well as your inability to mask it by not knowing who really to ask for help.

3. Only people who work for your com

AS/400

[nearlygod]

Get an IBM iSeries (aka AS/400) and learn to program RPG code.

Biological robotic - choose python not labview

[t482]

Was involved with a similar project but we were ripping out crappy Labview apps for a biological research company with lots of robots. Labview is initially easier but you get stuck after a while.

Tool selected was python

Boost Python (http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/ [boost.org]) is a library for wrapping C++ libraries that already exist to make them accessible from Python. Includes the boost python library. A favorite for wrapping c++ code.

Swig (http://www.swig.org/ [swig.org]) is another library for connecting C and C++
code

Wow...

[LWATCDR]

Any other plants in your company already up and running with a system like you are going to implment? If so use that.

If not I hope you have a big staff and or good vendors. Not being locked into a vendor means that you have to have your development staff in house.
Frankly you have not given me enough information to give you much help.

used to do this....

[Zurk]

for a corp during the dot com boom which used to sell the software for industrial controls ...(i've inherited all the code ironically).
anyway, we used to use java, xml and more java for doing pretty much everything with all the logic done using a custom written drag and drop java editor. if you want more info email me. im located pretty close to motor city btw. its NOT easy and if you find youre over your head -- thats kinda expected. it takes a lot getting used to -- i suggest calling a specialist in from