Named Innovators/Developers of Color? 213
i_c_andrade asks: "Apple and other tech companies were in the past called to task for the lack of Hispanics and African-American's on their Board of Directors, so after doing some research I came to the conclusion that I just did not know a lot of named IT/OSS/Web/CS innovators/developers that were not white (or American) specifically Hispanic or African-American. The first (and only) name that I could think of was Miguel de Icaza, and well I can only blame my own ignorance for not knowing any more, or are there? I know there is a big BSD movement in Brazil (they created the The FreeBSD LiveCD Project; but where else are there developers 'of color' and what are they working on?"
I'm a developer of color (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I'm a developer of color (Score:2)
I suppose that I should get up against the wall.
--
Evan
Re:I'm a developer of color (Score:2)
I haven't seen (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe they aren't represented in the industry because they aren't entering the industry in significant numbers, but I may have just been at three colleges that were unrepresentative of the nation as a whole.
The Mother of All Karma-Burning Posts (Score:4, Interesting)
I haven't seen anyone "of color" in the entire computer science program at any of the three colleges that I've been at...
Don't go holding your breath:
And I had worked so hard to earn all that good Karma.Sigh...
Re:The Mother of All Karma-Burning Posts (Score:5, Insightful)
The best example of this was when jewish people used to dominate basketball. All sort of Murray-like arguments were put forth to explain why the jewish "race" is better suited for basketball than others. Today almost no Jews play basketball and the game is dominated by blacks. Again the Murrays of the world jump in to explain why the black "race" is better suited for basketball than others (e.g. white men can't jump). Turns out that the common trait is that people who are raised in mostly urban, confined, poor settings tend to (a) play more basketball over other field sports and (b) they see sports as a way up the economic ladder.
Re:The Mother of All Karma-Burning Posts (Score:2, Insightful)
Do you know if Murray has any data on whether white people are genetically more prone to using minimal and/or dubious data to justify old prejudices?
Sadly, I'm guessing it's a human universal.
Re:The Mother of All Karma-Burning Posts (Score:3, Informative)
Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability. [ssc.uwo.ca](pdf)
Re:I haven't seen (Score:2)
Re:I haven't seen (Score:2)
Marcelo Tosatti (Score:3, Informative)
Interview and pic can be found here [kerneltrap.org].
Re:Marcelo Tosatti (Score:2)
Living in Brasil doesn't make you a person of colour. Brasil has a very mixed population from very white to very dark.
Re:Marcelo Tosatti (Score:3, Interesting)
If he's mostly European, Tosatti would be stuck having the check of the Latino box. But who knows? I wo
Re:Marcelo Tosatti (Score:3, Interesting)
He also asked the question as to whether he should be a
Does it really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:3, Funny)
For example: "To smurf a new file, open the smurf, then adjust the smurf as you desire, if the file is smurf-only then you must smurf to smurf smurf..."
But then again, I have been biased against the smurfs since the 80s.
UNICEF vs. Smurfs (Score:2)
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
Its called being poor. If you are a high school student, black/hispanic/white/whatever, and your family can't afford a PC and internet service, you would be at a severe disadvantage for getting into the IT field.
I was lucky, my father was in the right place at the right time in the late 80s to get promoted into an IT director position (before there really were such things at public schools). At the time, it wa
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
Yes, poverty does affect a spectrum of people. Because it affects people
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
That's what I'm saying. Poverty is non-descriminatory. Now, past actions have set up the situation we have today, where minorities are statisticly more likely to be poor.
" direct discrimination within IT would probably be easier to "fix", "
What is there to fix? If I put out an add for a new I-II
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
Forgive me for smiling, but I have to kind of chuckle when I read this. I grew up in an age when getting computer time cost real money, and my only access to a machine was a DECwriter in the lab at my high school connecting to a remote PDP-11 via a "fast" 300 baud modem. I was excited when I got to college and there w
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
What does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What does it matter? (Score:5, Funny)
The politically correct terminology is Serif-American text.
Re:What does it matter? (Score:2)
You have just reminded me of some old Unix jokes: Politically Correct Unix [zorg.org]. Here is one:
There are some gems on that site, and in its parent folder as well (more Unix jokes).
Re:What does it matter? (Score:2)
The internet has no color (Score:5, Insightful)
Same at work- I know my teammates, but for other groups unless their names are a giveaway I don't know if he's white, black, purple, polka-dot, or the flying spaghetti monster. I don't really care either- I'm paid to deal with them, thats all I need to know.
The better question is- more than a century after the end of slavery, 50 years after segregation ended, why do people still ask this? Who cares what color your hero is? He's your hero, thats enough. It seems to me that the biggeswt problem in race relations these days isn't the white man looking gown on the black, its the minorities who keep seeing themselves as different, with questions like this.
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
Well, why do people still ask about women getting into IT? Because representative numbers of that type of person just aren't around.
Put it the other way: if people are looking around for developers other than white, and not finding many, doesn't that strike you as odd? Don't you want to know why it is, given we're in this "colour-blind" age? If there were any gro
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
But this isn't the case. Show me a company you suspect of discriminating. Show me any evidence they are. Until then, I'm going to assume that racism isn't the real problem. The real problem is access to education, which is a class problem, not a race problem. Perhaps the lack of computers at
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
Then take a look at See No Bias [vedantam.com] from the Washington Post Magazine. They describe (amongst many other examples) an enormous effect when studying callback rates from recruiters. The researchers sent out resumes and varied the names to sound white or black, they found that for similarly qualified resumes black sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get called back.
Re:The internet has no color (Score:5, Insightful)
It may have something to do with the fact that men and women are meaningfully different from one another, whereas "blacks" and "whites" are not.
It certainly is odd. I find it much more striking that this is a racist attitude. I'm saddened that you seem to find this form of racism natural and acceptable.
You have conflated equality of opportunity with equality of outcome.
In any case the whole argument is difficult to grasp because of the sweeping generalities that are necessary to even have it. Stated differently; how do we know when the problem is fixed? Is it when all "black" people have jobs that are as good (by some yet undefined objective sense) as the average "white" person? Won't that mean that many "white" people are victims, since they will have less good jobs than any "black" person? If all "races" of people gained an equal footing in this country and then behaved in an equally racist way resulting in both equality of outcome and total factionalization of the nation would that constitute success in your eyes?
The fact is that the only remaining institutional racism in this country is against strong performers in favor of lesser performers who will satisfy this pathological need for an equal outcome.
The remaining racism is of a sort that can't be battled by legislation or quotas. It can only be fought one person at a time through human understanding. I think that if you can understand that you will have a more hopeful outlook and become a better champion of the disadvantaged.
-Peter
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2, Funny)
Every career and profession and company has to have the proper percentage of each person that fits into categories such as various races, religions, ages, sexes and sexual preferences. Likewise, a certain percentage of inventions MUST be devised by an acceptable statistical alottment of each of these categories.
I don't know if inventions are better or more useful depending on the race, sex or sexual preference and religion of the person inventing them, but if 12.85% of all inventions ar
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
You mean he or she, you sexist clod.
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not a race issue; it's a class issue.
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
People who believe that should try the Implicit Association Test [understand...judice.org] for race. It measures your unconscious biases; you can see how well they correspond to your conscious ones.
Saying it's only a class issue is sweeping some things under the rug. People use race to guess class, and what social class people are in is affected by race, especially historically but also in the present. One of the ways that is mediated is through the unconscious bias that things like the IAT
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not about color, it's about social class. Sure, maybe there's more latinos in the low end, but there's plenty of us crackers there too. Hell, I went to apply for a grant and the only thin
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:3, Interesting)
Chris Rock (a black comedian) says that even the poorest and sorriest white American would hesitate to trade places with him "and I'm rich!" he points out. Think about it dude. We subconsciously notice all the discrimination that takes place against blacks, and that is why people balk at the "trade places with me" suggestion from Chris Rock...
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Seriously though, I'm not saying that there's no discrimination. What I am saying that just because I'm white doesn't mean I automatically have it easier than anybody else is the low end of the income tax bracket. I've had to work hard to get where I am, and I'm not really anywhere good yet. I'm 24, have yet to get my Associate's Degree a
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
The solution lies in operating systems research. We've learned a hell of a lot about resource allocation in the last 40 years- both consumable and durable- and it's high time the economists st
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the most racist comment I have seen in this story so far. Please elaborate on the "less good home life", I have no idea what you mean by this... are you saying that their homes are less expensive? or in poor neighborhoods?
And perhaps, the quality of schools in the poorer sections of the US is not as good as in the more affluent sections, but you can't say that there are no white people going to these schools too.
The less wealth comment might be valid across a portion of the population, but you can't say that there aren't a lot of blacks and hispanics making a good living
The comment that you make that I have to disagree with most is the "less college education". Going to college myself I found that I was hard pressed to find ways to pay for school. A large portion of grants and scholarships are racially biased. As a black person I would've had my entire education paid for, but as a white person I had to take out large student loans. As a black person I would've even been able to get into college with lower test scores and a lower GPA.
Despite what you may think, as a white person I am discriminated against by the laws and policies in the US. If I do not have the privilege of coming from a rich family I am basically left out in the cold when it comes to paying for, and being accepted to a good college.
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Perhaps this needs a little polishing:
less good home life: Are more likely to come from single parent families and live in crime ridden neighborhoods.
less good schools: Are more likely to attend underperforming and underfunded schools.
less good treatment by the government: Are more likely to be harassed and ill-treated by the judicial
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
I actually had to work almost 60 hours per week while taking 21 credit hours, so excuse me if your 25 hours a week doesn't strike a c
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't really see that. I grew up with little to no money, I wore hand-me-down clothes, both my parents worked, a box of tuna helper was dinner for 5, I never owned a computer until I managed to buy an old commodore from goodwill for $5, I rarely had all the school supplies that I needed, I never had air conditioning, I never had heat, other than 1 year I never had the means to participate in any sports, and still I couldn't find a grant
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
So tell me, why do you identify yourself as a "Latino programmer"? I come from a Dutch background, yet I don't identify myself as a "Dutch programmer". There are also lots of other labels that I could use: "male programmer", "Christian programmer", "fat guy programmer", etc. I chose not to put a label on myself, and maybe when you stop thinking of yourself as a Latino programmer then you'll take the time t
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Because this discussion is about exactly one thing: non-white programmers. Therefore, his referring to himself as Latino was not only appropriate, it's necessary if we're to understand the persepective he's coming from.
You're right that one shouldn't refer to oneself by ethnicity or nationality all the time, but it's entirely appropriate in a converstion about that very thing.
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
In the context of the overall article, you're right. Take a look at his parent though. The discussion had shifted towards "I can't see your race because you're on the Internet" so race should no longer be a part of the equation. What I find really interesting is that, as far as I can see, his parent never identifies his race, yet the response is "It's really easy for you as a white person to say that color doesn't matter..." I'm
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
There are many studies that demonstrate race bias, perhaps those that are most dramatic are those having to do with hiring practices. In that situation its easy to setup a controlled experiment, just send recruiters resumes and measure who they callback while varying the names on the resumes. Is the same resume more likely to get a callback if it has the name "Greg" on it or the name "Tyrone"?
The results of this study were pretty dra
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
I only had time and interest to read part of the article. I find it interesting that you can spin things virtually any way that you want. I'll be the first to admit that we all have biases. But I think that there are two important questions to ask when looking at these types of studies:
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
As for your comments on handicaps- your problem isn't color, its the fact you're poor. Trust me, we don't send all the good teachers to white schools and the bad ones to dark schools. Its the fact that inner city schools have less money, and aren't safe work environments. My father worked in an in
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Why would you want to replace sales tax? Sales tax already disproportionately affects the rich because they spend more income on "luxury" items. And why would you want to increase overall taxes on the wealthy? The wealthy already pay 35% in just federal income tax, plus their property taxes are typically higher.
I am not rich, in fact, I am
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
This is a very flawed statement. Sales tax is not paid on items needed to live. If the person making $20k would probably be paying no more than $500 in taxes.
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
In that case, would you support making the relationship explicit? High personal income taxes on the top rate, but household and business payrolls should be 100% tax deductible. So if you're making a lot of money, but you're usi
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
The negative point goes to corporations like Microsoft- they'd hav
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
The way I saw it before the clarification was that the rich would be tax
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Don't tell me that color does not matter.
It cuts both ways. As a white male from a middle class family, I had a work my ass off every day through
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
Would it surprise you then to learn that a person with a black sounding name and the same resume as you is 50 percent more likely to not receive a callback from a recruiter?
Race bias is real and has very real effects. If you want to learn more you might try checking out See No Bias [vedantam.com] from the Washington Post Magazine.
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
The problem isn't race, it's class- and nationality. Americans of any sort are very much in the unenviable position of being raised with high standard of living that can't be supported in today's global market. And that includes EVERYBODY in North America- just look at how much better off the Guatamalans and NOLA residents h
Re:I'm glad YOU think things are so great (Score:2)
I know very, very few people who are in a "high-paid, low-work environment". I know a few people in a "low-work" environment. Most of them aren't paid that great. I know so
Please remember. (Score:2)
Re:The internet has no color (Score:2)
Hell, in my case I had 3 officers kicking me and hitting me with mag-lights, but they were in a high-stress situation so I really hold no animosity towards them. And my experience was video taped by 4 separate people, but since I'm
Plus Three (Score:2, Informative)
so what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you really care if they're "of color", gay, jewish, albino, are incontinent, fear showers, or smell like alabama truckstop?
I want software that works. Licensing is secondary; color of the developers isn't even a factor.
A Few (Score:2)
Then after clicking a few links, I found Fernando Magariños [homelinux.org], Ramón Morales López [blogspot.com], and Mauricio Hernandez [blogspot.com].
I'm sure there are countless others...
None (Score:2)
Why does it matter? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why does it matter? I thought we were supposed to be racially unbiased and "color blind" these days. We're also supposed to be gender unbiased. Why do you care if the person who develops your FOSS is white, black, Chinese, Mexican, Portugese, Canadian, whatever? As long as it works...
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:2)
Fscked up yes. But that's how it is. I'd be seriously insulted if somebody pulled that shit on me. "Oh, you're *white* and you managed to become a programmer? Good for you!"
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:2)
Bingo.
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:2)
BTW, white people should make an attempt every once in a w
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:2)
In fact, they usually wanted to drag me to their parties. *shrugs*
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:2)
Granted, the "oh, you're foo and managed to become a programmer? Good for you!" sucks. But the fact that I find that patronizing doesn't mean my life an
Related note (Score:2)
I thought handicapped was a much better term. Especially nowadays in the computer age, disabling something means totally turning it off. Whereas if you're handicapped it just means you are disadvantaged in some way.
In golf, handicapping can be used to let people play the game on reasonably even terms.
2000 US Census (Score:2)
If you're looking for non-American people, I would recommend
Merkins: (Score:2)
Re:Merkins: (Score:2)
I take it nationalist stereotypes and name-calling are still fair game in your free open source software?
Re: (Score:2)
Why I posted this question (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why I posted this question (Score:3, Insightful)
good role models for non-white kids...
First, why are you singling out kids based on their race? Second, why are you telling these kids that race is important, and th
Re:Why I posted this question (Score:3, Informative)
-theGreater.
Re:Why I posted this question (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah-ha! Now language is a different matter than race. That's a legitimate quest to be looking for a Spanish-language IT magazine, or at least Spanish-speaking IT innovators, whatever their color.
"nor do they focus on minority based start ups trying to make it."
But then this statement makes it clear you are not just talking about language, you are talking about race. Why should they focus on a startup based on the ethnicity of the people starting t
Why assume that blacks are African or American? (Score:2)
My girlfriend told me a story about a trip she took to Europe. Trying to point out a black man on the subway that she thought was attractive, she tried describing him (in German) to her frie
Re:Why assume that blacks are African or American? (Score:2)
Don't Care (Score:2)
Ed Almos
This is a racist story on itself (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is a racist story on itself (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see that at all. He spoke of his own personal experience, saying that he could think of only one notable non-white OSS developer, and asking for more. Racism isn't about noticing the very existence of race, it's about irrational bias based on it.
Making a compleatly unfounded statistic remark about racial participation in "IT/OSS/Web/CS" projects is calling for more uninformed bable and flames.
Go back and read the post again. He made no such remark. Was
On the net, we're all ASCII. (Score:2)
Oh -- I do hate militant Packers fans, though. And Braves fans, but they got theirs (again) so it doesn't matter.
James West (Score:2)
My skin color is RGB (d2b48c) (Score:2)
My skin color is (RGB) #d2b48c - "Tan"; likely due to the Shawnee tribe my family married into a few generations back. Does that count?
Admittedly, after October it fades to (RGB) #f0f8ff - "Antique White", but that's because I'm no longer wearing t-shirts outside.
Re:My skin color is RGB (d2b48c) (Score:2)
It's because there are people, like young joelsanda here, who are geekier than me, and they are a thing of great beauty.
Colors? (Score:2)
I can still compute on all those platforms. Their color really
I cannot resist (Score:2)
Fuck em (Score:5, Insightful)
I learned all I needed to learn the day I realized I could make anything that I wanted to with the tools provided to me. That day, sometime in Dec of 94 (my age 13-14 or so) I realized that worrying about discrimination and racism was unimportant in this arena. I had the tools necessary to do whatever I wanted while also be compensated for it. Also realize that the world is much bigger than the USA which is largely the most racist. (I've also traveled a bit) You'll find racism and discrimination elsewhere but your software has no color and will be warmly accepted by the people who need it; once it fits their needs.
The racist and discriminatory persons should be of no matter or recourse to you. Ignore them for the most part when it comes to matters like this. Concentrating your efforts on your work are more important and will produce better results. I'm sure some racist and discriminatory people benefit from some of my opensource work everyday. What are you going to do? I see it as a win; win all around. People are entitled to their views and opinions. I'm not racist and discriminatory and I'll fight it where it makes sense. Here's not one of the places it makes sense.
My views for everyone else are that there are less minorities in computing because the initial cost of computers were prohibitive for most. That combined with social stigmas, general disdain towards said groups and lack to equipment made it extremely difficult. I'm only lucky in the aspect that at the time my parents are what one would deem upper middle class and could afford to purchase me a Fountain PC 80286 with 5 1/4 floppy. As of current, its primarily an education problem but with free distributions and word of mouth I expect to see more minorities entering the arena in the next decade. Especially in their own countries.
As much as i'd love to regulate this argument to being primarily a class issue (which would at least be better than what it actually is). That isn't fair. The class issue is part and parcel because of the race issue. A majority of poor which is considered "class" are also black/hispanic. They are poor because a majority of the wealthy are white who then predicate discriminatory and racist behavior.
Free software changes all of this though. Minorities or people who feel oppressed economically now have all the tools needed in modern day to change that. No longer does one need to feel dependent on anything other than their capabilities and imagination to survive.
So you can complain, or you can get a copy of binutils, glibc and gcc and get to work. It's not easy and nothing ever is. There will be days you wish gdb actually fucking worked and good days. Whatever the case; use your mind and creative talents to change the world.
You'll find that the people who are really good at what they do don't care what your skin color is and if they do. You're better.
As for naming inventors. Lewis Latimer was a black scientist that created the electric lightbulb and the first air conditioner. Worked with Edison. The house he did all of his work in was recently moved to Queens. Interesting fellow and i'm lucky enough to have met the person involved for a majority of this. I even got to see his original patents. GE donated to the restoration and we held the opening ceremony last year. All in all it was a fun ceremony and it inspired me even further.